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Apple unveils near final version of Mac OS X Leopard - Page 4

post #121 of 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by pfolk07 View Post

I was looking at recent pictures of the new desktop in the gallery on the Apple site and realised that in none of the pictures was an icon of the Macintosh HD, does this mean they've gotten rid of it, or will it still be there, but they've somehow gotten rid of it for the photo's???

Having HDs on the desktop has been optional since 10.0.
JLL

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JLL

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post #122 of 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLL View Post

It's still there.

I think I asked this before, probably got lost in the new, alternate AI time/space continuum:

Any speculation as to why Apple has removed mention of it from their web-site, or why Steve didn't talk it up, since it is such a great feature?

You seem to have first hand knowledge-- is the feature set in flux? Critical problems that might not be fixed in time for the roll out?

EDIT: Crap, here I am again at some remove from the post I'm responding to. Hope you track it down, JLL.
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post #123 of 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

I think I asked this before, probably got lost in the new, alternate AI time/space continuum:

Any speculation as to why Apple has removed mention of it from their web-site, or why Steve didn't talk it up, since it is such a great feature?

No idea!
JLL

95% percent of the boat is owned by Microsoft, but the 5% Apple controls happens to be the rudder!
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JLL

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post #124 of 152
I like that PMJoe's "never had it" post remains stubbornly as the last word. Is this the long arm of Steve?
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post #125 of 152
I was looking at some of the web stream of the WWDC keynote, unfortunately I wasn't able to view it all as it was really laggy and quit on me. Any ways while Steve Jobs was showing of the New Desktop I noticed he quickly clicked on the Help menu up the top and what popped down seemed to be something that looked like the window of Spotlight, so it looked as if you'd type your question straight into there without it opening up the application, but I'm not sure, but it did look different to the current menu, when clicked on, it just has the Mac Help Comman-?, but this did look different. But actually not sure if this has been mentioned on their website. I also noticed, but I'm not quite sure, but the top-bar in the preview app, looked like it had some newer buttons, but don't quote me on this as I've been unable to take a closer look, but they quite possibly could be new buttons that may do something different. I think someone should go through the keynote and look at different things that could quite possibly be new features that haven't been shown, I would do it myself, but have no time on my hands.

I also looked at a recent post, where someone said they calculated 17 new features, not 300, well Apple usually posts a lists of all the new features. Generally they also only show the key new features of an operating system, even though they usually say something like 200+ new features. I think many of the new features, may be underhood features or small things, or new security measures. When reading previous features list from other systems, I have found many to be things about stuff I don't know about, so I think I'll take apple's word for it, cause I don't think Apple with preview all 300+ new features, but they may in the future list them all.
post #126 of 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

You seem to have first hand knowledge-- is the feature set in flux? Critical problems that might not be fixed in time for the roll out?

From here:
Quote:
All features referenced in the Mac OS X Leopard website are subject to change.

From what I remember, this appears for the first time in the demo pages of OS X before release. Not exactly an answer to your question, but an indication.
post #127 of 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

I got it from the macrumors.com live feed. They explicitly said no developers outside the conference would be getting Leopard...

I could be wrong but not handing out developers outside the confrence could be a more of a security issue rather than catering to the elite. Just my 2 cents
post #128 of 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by pfolk07 View Post

I also looked at a recent post, where someone said they calculated 17 new features, not 300, well Apple usually posts a lists of all the new features. Generally they also only show the key new features of an operating system, even though they usually say something like 200+ new features. I think many of the new features, may be underhood features or small things, or new security measures. When reading previous features list from other systems, I have found many to be things about stuff I don't know about, so I think I'll take apple's word for it, cause I don't think Apple with preview all 300+ new features, but they may in the future list them all.

:-D That was me. Thats a possiblity, and more then likely is the case. But it still doesn't answer, why did Jobs choose to unveil only three new features -- he could have even listed speed increase as a feature, but he didn't. I still wonder if there was a secert feature, but they couldn't get it done in time.

I don't know. Leopard will be awesome, but I can't help but be dissapointed with Jobs right now.

(at least he didn't pull a Microsoft, and delay, delay, delay so we could have the same OS, just with a new look and a couple added features -- oh, yea, and everything else XP was missing....right?)
post #129 of 152
Yeah I must agree with you, at least he hasn't delayed it like MS has, and you do have point in saying why only 3 new features, I have a feeling there's more instore for later, but we'll see. I actually like stacks and will use that quite effectively, but I think the EA Games and id software was a big announcement, although I'll have to upgrade to Intel when I get some money.
post #130 of 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by pfolk07 View Post

Yeah I must agree with you, at least he hasn't delayed it like MS has, and you do have point in saying why only 3 new features, I have a feeling there's more instore for later, but we'll see. I actually like stacks and will use that quite effectively, but I think the EA Games and id software was a big announcement, although I'll have to upgrade to Intel when I get some money.

I forgot about thos announcements, and yes, they are huge announcements. Finally, Apple is pushing games. Now all we need -- this may bea few years off -- are exclusive, AAA titles that are must have, for the Mac platform.

But something else that should have been announced -- are there any improvements to OpenGL, and does Apple have any plans to support Direct X 10. Because the latest cards that do support Direct X 10 usually give a better performance, this according to an old PC Mag that actually reviewed a Mac Pro against other, similar machines (based off of Windows, of course).

At any rate, what Apple did (or id/EA, at least) are the first steps of getting gamers. But it's not the only step.
post #131 of 152
The UK site hasn't yet changed to the new design and still carries the original Leopard Sneak Peek pages - the iChat section describes the Screen Sharing feature in both the text and the video...

http://www.apple.com/uk/macosx/leopard/ichat.html
post #132 of 152
Thanks. Yeah, this is exactly the type of thing that was demo-ed at MacWorld in January. Hopefully this will come back to iChat. It looks like now in Leopard the only way that you will have this type of thing is via the "Share Screen" button in the finder window. But according to the way that Steve Jobs was showing this at WDOC is that you will need a .Mac account to use it. I don't know. It wasn't fully explained enough. If that's true, it would be a shame. Thanks for the find.
post #133 of 152
Well, at best, all of this suggests Apple isn't doing a very good job of managing the public face of Leopard, and at worst suggests Apple is actually having to shed features to make their release date, which would be a bitter pill to swallow after all the bwa-ha-ha-ing about Vista.

Putting a way cool feature on the video demo at your website, leaving it there for 5 months, then abruptly pulling it without comment just smacks of chaotic management, in my book (particularly when you don't get around to purging the sites in other countries.)

Does Apple think that it's just not very important if they have shifting, multiple descriptions of Leopards features floating around, so they don't have to make much of an effort to keep things sorted?

And if the screen share feature has been moved to a networking pane in the finder (which is actually not the same thing at all, and we already have Remote Desktop), what does that say about the state of the things, if major features are being rejiggered and repurposed at this point? Or perhaps more significantly, after you thought such a feature was solid enough to brag about on your website?

And before anyone jumps on this, yeah, I think being able to initiate an iChat session and and do remote desktop stuff while talking to the other party is (or was) a major, major feature.

I'm not all "Apple is teh doomed!!!111!!" by any means, but I really wonder what's happening behind the scenes.
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post #134 of 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Well, at best, all of this suggests Apple isn't doing a very good job of managing the public face of Leopard, and at worst suggests Apple is actually having to shed features to make their release date, which would be a bitter pill to swallow after all the bwa-ha-ha-ing about Vista.

Putting a way cool feature on the video demo at your website, leaving it there for 5 months, then abruptly pulling it without comment just smacks of chaotic management, in my book (particularly when you don't get around to purging the sites in other countries.)

Does Apple think that it's just not very important if they have shifting, multiple descriptions of Leopards features floating around, so they don't have to make much of an effort to keep things sorted?

And if the screen share feature has been moved to a networking pane in the finder (which is actually not the same thing at all, and we already have Remote Desktop), what does that say about the state of the things, if major features are being rejiggered and repurposed at this point? Or perhaps more significantly, after you thought such a feature was solid enough to brag about on your website?

And before anyone jumps on this, yeah, I think being able to initiate an iChat session and and do remote desktop stuff while talking to the other party is (or was) a major, major feature.

I'm not all "Apple is teh doomed!!!111!!" by any means, but I really wonder what's happening behind the scenes.

If the feature really has gone from iChat, then I couldn't agree more. Everything you said is right on - there are so many things that come out of Apple that smack of chaotic management that I'm often surprised that they manage to do so well.
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post #135 of 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by hypoluxa View Post

Oh please god let there be an option to make the finder bar opaque as I can't stand this ridiculous transparency eyecandy!!! Argghhh. Trying to make it like Vista hmm? Cmon Appple be original and keep it opaque, it was fine that way!

Apple didn't steal transparency from MS. MS copied it from NeXTstep, the father of OS X.
Mac user since August 1983.
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post #136 of 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarling View Post

Apple didn't steal transparency from MS. MS copied it from NeXTstep, the father of OS X.


Thats a very interting fact. Hmmm.
post #137 of 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

To be honest with you, I think functionality is once again taking a back seat to appearance. "Stacks" is one of the dumbest damn things they've come up with recently.

If I understand correctly, Stacks are folders in the dock. Each one holds a series: Apps, applets, etc. I've been doing that for years. Instead of crowding the dock with individual apps or whatever, I have aliases of the most used Apps in one folder, personal files in another, URLs in another, and so on. It beats drilling through layers, but it's no big deal just because the system is called "STACKS".
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post #138 of 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

To be honest with you, I think functionality is once again taking a back seat to appearance. "Stacks" is one of the dumbest damn things they've come up with recently.

If I understand correctly, Stacks are folders in the dock. Each one holds a series: Apps, applets, etc. I've been doing that for years. Instead of crowding the dock with individual apps or whatever, I have aliases of the most used Apps in one folder, personal files in another, URLs in another, and so on. It beats drilling through layers, but it's no big deal just because the system is called "STACKS".
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post #139 of 152
Quote:
If I understand correctly, Stacks are folders in the dock. Each one holds a series: Apps, applets, etc. I've been doing that for years. Instead of crowding the dock with individual apps or whatever, I have aliases of the most used Apps in one folder, personal files in another, URLs in another, and so on. It beats drilling through layers, but it's no big deal just because the system is called "STACKS".

Yeah, I've been doing it for now as well. But, there are some differences (albeit minor ones at first glance). The only one that I can see (at least for now) is that in Leopard, each item has a preview icon image, so you see exactly what the item looks like, unlike the generic application icons you get now. The one thing I like about the current way I have it set up, is that you can really dig deep within a folder. Every example I am seeing in the Leopard demos, is a folder of just items, no folders within folders, etc. See examples below.




post #140 of 152
Has anybody commented on the speed of the new finder?
post #141 of 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoC View Post

Is it me or was I tripping at the MacWorld Keynote address in January? I thought I saw an Apple demo of iChat where you could have a feature where you could control a friend's Mac via iChat (ala Remote Desktop). I specifically remember the Apple guy talking saying in the demo "How many of you out there have parents that always need help with their Mac's but have a hard time showing them how to do certain things?" Did anyone else see this demo at MacWorld? Or am I having weird Mac dreams where I envision cool features not yet developed? If this is NOT a dream and someone else CAN verify that this REALLY was shown at MacWorld, then what happened to it? I didn't see anything like this at this Keynote OR on the Apple site. Can someone verify if this feature will be on the Leopard iChat? Thanks!

Engadget posted and then took down screenshots of the developer preview. Interestingly enough, you can see that there is a screen sharing preference in the Sharing preferences. Also, Safari has lost the brushed aluminum in Leopard.
post #142 of 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoC View Post

Yeah, I've been doing it for now as well. But, there are some differences (albeit minor ones at first glance). The only one that I can see (at least for now) is that in Leopard, each item has a preview icon image, so you see exactly what the item looks like, unlike the generic application icons you get now. The one thing I like about the current way I have it set up, is that you can really dig deep within a folder. Every example I am seeing in the Leopard demos, is a folder of just items, no folders within folders, etc. See examples below.





Right. My present set-up is like the bottom one in your thread - like yours if I read you correctly.
I think Leopard Stacks is just eye-candy without the versatility of what you and I have.
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post #143 of 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by sequitur View Post

Right. My present set-up is like the bottom one in your thread - like yours if I read you correctly.
I think Leopard Stacks is just eye-candy without the versatility of what you and I have.

I think you have to look at this from the perspective of an iPhone or other multitouch interface. Obviously, if you are mouse driving on a standard desktop or laptop device, then folders on the dock may be just as useful.

However, if you are driving with multiple fingers on a touch screen (as per an iPhone or something else) then the functionality of having you options arc out as on the Stacks screen shot "seems" to offer a better interface.

cheers
Greg
post #144 of 152
Quote:
I think you have to look at this from the perspective of an iPhone or other multitouch interface. Obviously, if you are mouse driving on a standard desktop or laptop device, then folders on the dock may be just as useful.

However, if you are driving with multiple fingers on a touch screen (as per an iPhone or something else) then the functionality of having you options arc out as on the Stacks screen shot "seems" to offer a better interface.

cheers
Greg

I think you're right. At first, what threw me off was not seeing any folders in this tier system, but that doesn't mean that they don't or won't appear. I do like that you see a preview of each item, which is nice. But yes, we do have to see this being used "down the road" sort of speak. Apple has a way of introducing something like this, then incorporating it into something that has more tangibles to it, like the iPhone. One thing that I am still interested in though, is how folders are going to play into this. Do they fan out as well? Will we be able to see "deep-dive" folders (as in my example image above)? Will we be able to have stacks within stacks? Aaah, the many questions in an Apple forum . . . .
post #145 of 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmjoe View Post

You mean iChat Theater? It doesn't let you remotely control a friends Mac; it just lets you show apps that are running on your Mac (show your Powerpoint/Keynote slides, etc.).

http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/features/ichat.html

No no, in last years presentation on ichat in Leopard Steve clearly described and showed a remote desktop feature being built-in to ichat. Apparently that is not present in this built. Would be a real shame if they have axed that because it would really be a usefull feature to remotely help configure, say, your parents mac.
post #146 of 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoC View Post

Yeah, I've been doing it for now as well. But, there are some differences (albeit minor ones at first glance). The only one that I can see (at least for now) is that in Leopard, each item has a preview icon image, so you see exactly what the item looks like, unlike the generic application icons you get now. The one thing I like about the current way I have it set up, is that you can really dig deep within a folder. Every example I am seeing in the Leopard demos, is a folder of just items, no folders within folders, etc. See examples below.

There can be folders within folders.
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JLL

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post #147 of 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmjoe View Post

You mean iChat Theater? It doesn't let you remotely control a friends Mac; it just lets you show apps that are running on your Mac (show your Powerpoint/Keynote slides, etc.).

http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/features/ichat.html

There is still a screen sharing feature in iChat. It's not part of iChat Theater though - which makes sense.
JLL

95% percent of the boat is owned by Microsoft, but the 5% Apple controls happens to be the rudder!
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post #148 of 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macintosh_Next View Post

I forgot about thos announcements, and yes, they are huge announcements. Finally, Apple is pushing games. Now all we need -- this may bea few years off -- are exclusive, AAA titles that are must have, for the Mac platform.

But something else that should have been announced -- are there any improvements to OpenGL, and does Apple have any plans to support Direct X 10. Because the latest cards that do support Direct X 10 usually give a better performance, this according to an old PC Mag that actually reviewed a Mac Pro against other, similar machines (based off of Windows, of course).

At any rate, what Apple did (or id/EA, at least) are the first steps of getting gamers. But it's not the only step.

Apple is fully committed to OpenGL. OpenGL 2.1 is highly optimized and fully implemented in Leopard via the use of LLVM.

OpenGL 3.0 is still in final spec review so it's not obviously implemented.

http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/300.html#graphics

Apple has no support for DirectX 10. They are an OpenGL integrated environment.

Most OpenGL 2.1 and DirectX 10 graphics cards are about to get an update: EFI support.

Why? Microsoft Vista SP1 will have Intel EFI built-in.

http://developer.intel.com/technology/efi/efi.htm

EFI Presentation: Spring 2007
http://download.intel.com/technology..._ENG_Spr07.pdf

Quote:
Windows Support for UEFI
  • Microsoft plans to introduce native UEFI support in
    Windows Server codename Longhorn and Vista SP1
    • Microsoft is committed to enabling both Server and Client
      platforms
    • For direct questions to Microsoft use winboot@microsoft.com
  • Windows Server codename Longhorn supports UEFI
    2.0 or later specification on all 64-bit platforms
    • For ItaniumĀ® platforms Windows Server codename Longhorn will
      continue to support EFI 1.1 but UEFI 2.0 is recommended
      Systems that implement WHEA Error Record Persistence using
    • EFI Variable Services require UEFI 2.1 implementation
      http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/system...uefiguide.mspx

*I've updated the microsoft uefiguide link reference as they've changed their site since this presentation.

How is this important?

Apple uses EFI only Device Driver Video GPUs. Most of the nVidia and ATi cards have yet to make their cards hybrid and thus be backward compatible with non-EFI based systems and EFI ready systems.

That's going to change with Vista SP1 coming out.

This change will make more cards accessible to OS X Leopard and Tiger.
post #149 of 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarling View Post

Apple didn't steal transparency from MS. MS copied it from NeXTstep, the father of OS X.

Moreover, transparency is here since 10.1 at least.

EDIT: OK, it is actually since Mac OS X 10.0.
post #150 of 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by PB View Post

Moreover, transparency is here since 10.1 at least.

EDIT: OK, it is actually since Mac OS X 10.0.

Actually, it's been there since Developer Preview 3.
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post #151 of 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmjoe View Post

You mean iChat Theater? It doesn't let you remotely control a friends Mac; it just lets you show apps that are running on your Mac (show your Powerpoint/Keynote slides, etc.).

http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/features/ichat.html


No, I think it's remote control (or shared control, really)

Quote:
Thanks to iChat screen sharing, you and your buddy can observe and control a single desktop with iChat, making it a cinch to collaborate with a colleague, browse the web with a friend, or pick plane seats with your spouse. Share your own desktop or your buddys you both have control at all times. And iChat automatically initiates an audio chat when you start a screen sharing session, so you can talk things through while youre at it.
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post #152 of 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoC View Post

I thought I saw an Apple demo of iChat where you could have a feature where you could control a friend's Mac via iChat (ala Remote Desktop). I specifically remember the Apple guy talking saying in the demo "How many of you out there have parents that always need help with their Mac's but have a hard time showing them how to do certain things?" [...] Can someone verify if this feature will be on the Leopard iChat? Thanks!

You mean iChat Theater? It doesn't let you remotely control a friends Mac; it just lets you show apps that are running on your Mac (show your Powerpoint/Keynote slides, etc.).

http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/features/ichat.html
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