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Rumor puts Apple Nav System in Mercedes models by '09

post #1 of 55
Thread Starter 
A rumor making the rounds on the Internet this past weekend has Apple partnering with luxury automaker Mercedes-Benz to deliver a multifaceted navigational system sometime during the 2009 calendar year.

Citing unnamed sources, German Magazine Focus said the Apple-developed device will combine entertainment, communication and navigation in a single console system.

Mercedes will reportedly have a six-month exclusive (translation) on the product when it's made available sometime in 2009. Further details, such as integration of Google Maps for navigation, are said to be unclear.

No other information was provided in the two-paragraph report by Focus, which has no track record when it comes to predictions for future Apple offerings.

A host of top automakers already offer elegant iPod integration solutions to car buyers, but none include Apple-developed navigational or entertainment components.

In 2004, Apple teamed with Mercedes rival BMW in delivering the first seamless integration between iPod and a car audio system.
post #2 of 55
I've always wanted a Google/Apple Nav system. My Garmin sucks
post #3 of 55
Good

Apple should license the hell out of OS X/Multi touch.


Nav systems have improved but many are still horrible to "ok" for user interface "navigation"

I think that the turn of the next decade will usher in the "Carputer" where you have full access and services that a desktop/laptop would.

Imagine the possibilities.

1. Web access wherever you go...easy webmail access to your messages.
2. iTunes access....kids need a new movie for a trip...download something new while you drive.
3. Flexibility- enable wireless monitors that can accept difference sources so that passengers have access to disperate entertainment sources.
4. iPhone integration...sync you calendar/contacts and any other relevant data. So that the "right" data is always near you.
5. GPS data that combines "turn by turn" and arial Google Earth pictures of your trip/destination.
6. iSight support for backup cameras
7. Voice Recognition for comand and control of Carputer and text to speech for reading your emails/documents to you.
8. Destination and "Points of Interest" pop up in a HUD with relevant data.
9. XM/Sirius radio and support for NAV traffic
10. DVD player included though Nav map data resides on mini hard drive. DVD uploads new data to hdd.
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post #4 of 55
So nobody is going to mind when more OS X stuff is delayed? While car nav systems definitely need some work, I think a lot of it is because there are no buttons. Designing systems which are quick to use without requiring a lot of visual feedback is a lot different than something like the iPhone.

And built-in GPS systems are ridiculously expensive for what you get. A top of the line Garmin or other player will cost you $600 and generally be better than the $2000 nav system that is integrated. I imagine they are looking at the HK GPS500 which is a pretty neat device, and if they would just integrate that it would be a thousand times better than the built-ins.

I hope they aren't doing it, but that is because they already are letting too much slide.
post #5 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

Good

Apple should license the hell out of OS X/Multi touch.


Nav systems have improved but many are still horrible to "ok" for user interface "navigation"

I think that the turn of the next decade will usher in the "Carputer" where you have full access and services that a desktop/laptop would.

Imagine the possibilities.

1. Web access wherever you go...easy webmail access to your messages.
2. iTunes access....kids need a new movie for a trip...download something new while you drive.
3. Flexibility- enable wireless monitors that can accept difference sources so that passengers have access to disperate entertainment sources.
4. iPhone integration...sync you calendar/contacts and any other relevant data. So that the "right" data is always near you.
5. GPS data that combines "turn by turn" and arial Google Earth pictures of your trip/destination.
6. iSight support for backup cameras
7. Voice Recognition for comand and control of Carputer and text to speech for reading your emails/documents to you.
8. Destination and "Points of Interest" pop up in a HUD with relevant data.
9. XM/Sirius radio and support for NAV traffic
10. DVD player included though Nav map data resides on mini hard drive. DVD uploads new data to hdd.

You know, this sounds like the thing people would go ape for.
All this time and R&D computer companies have put into trying to get the computer into the living room as an all in one info/entertainment system--maybe the first place they should have been looking was the car. That is a space where people spend tons of time and are trapped, so to speak. After we get used to it in the car, then we will want a AppleTV at home that shares those features...

I guess all that is really needed to make this vision work is solid, high speed access to the internet. dont know if what is out there is good enough, but I guess it is inevitable.

Apple is lucky (forsightful?) as people are already used to plugging their iPods into the car. It will make sense for them to buy an iCarputer--especially after they geet hooked on the iPhone
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post #6 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

Good

10. DVD player included though Nav map data resides on mini hard drive. DVD uploads new data to hdd.

Howbout it automatically downloads map data? If this system can download a movie, why not a map?
post #7 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

...Apple should license the hell out of OS X/Multi touch.


Nav systems have improved but many are still horrible to "ok" for user interface "navigation"

I think that the turn of the next decade will usher in the "Carputer" where you have full access and services that a desktop/laptop would.

Imagine the possibilities.

1. Web access wherever you go...easy webmail access to your messages.
2. iTunes access....kids need a new movie for a trip...download something new while you drive.
3. Flexibility- enable wireless monitors that can accept difference sources so that passengers have access to disperate entertainment sources.
4. iPhone integration...sync you calendar/contacts and any other relevant data. So that the "right" data is always near you.
5. GPS data that combines "turn by turn" and arial Google Earth pictures of your trip/destination.
6. iSight support for backup cameras
7. Voice Recognition for comand and control of Carputer and text to speech for reading your emails/documents to you.
8. Destination and "Points of Interest" pop up in a HUD with relevant data.
9. XM/Sirius radio and support for NAV traffic
10. DVD player included though Nav map data resides on mini hard drive. DVD uploads new data to hdd.

Great, just what we need, even more people on the road not paying attention to driving, but playing with their nifty new carputer.

BTW, why would you need an iSight for backup camera operation? Or is it just necessary to throw that in there to make 10 (since mine does this without the need of iSight or OS X).
post #8 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bageljoey View Post

You know, this sounds like the thing people would go ape for.
All this time and R&D computer companies have put into trying to get the computer into the living room as an all in one info/entertainment system--maybe the first place they should have been looking was the car. That is a space where people spend tons of time and are trapped, so to speak. After we get used to it in the car, then we will want a AppleTV at home that shares those features...

I guess all that is really needed to make this vision work is solid, high speed access to the internet. dont know if what is out there is good enough, but I guess it is inevitable.

Apple is lucky (forsightful?) as people are already used to plugging their iPods into the car. It will make sense for them to buy an iCarputer--especially after they geet hooked on the iPhone

Yes ...my boss is like many people...the minute he hits the road he's knocking out phone call after phone call. Technologies like WiMax and 4G are going to bring wirless speeds that compete well with Cable and DSL products of today. Clearwire is already at 1.5Mbps for wireless. We know that Apple can cram OS X down to a very small package (iPhone) yet maintain usability. Addabox and I have discussed this before. When you have OS X running on small devices the licensing opportunities begin to multiple. Apple doesn't need to license Macintosh but they stand to make <Dr Evil) Beeeeelions </Dr Evil> licensing OS X for CE devices.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mariofreak85 View Post

Howbout it automatically downloads map data? If this system can download a movie, why not a map?

D'oh...Occams Razor. Probably best to give people the option for both.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Louzer View Post

Great, just what we need, even more people on the road not paying attention to driving, but playing with their nifty new carputer.

BTW, why would you need an iSight for backup camera operation? Or is it just necessary to throw that in there to make 10 (since mine does this without the need of iSight or OS X).

Nah...some features won't work when the car is in drive. Bluetooth would be mandatory you get in your care and your phone syncs to the GPS unit just like most of the units today. My gf leaves her phone in her handbag and after her Audi syncs it "just works" Text to speech makes reading your email easy and it should be the default way to access email. Just give them the header info and let the TTS take over when driving.

Hell use any camera you want. I offered no limitations The key part is that backup cams are safe and any GPS system should support a number of cams in my book.
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post #9 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

We know that Apple can cram OS X down to a very small package (iPhone) yet maintain usability.

I don't want to start sounding like your standard Apple basher (TOO LATE!), but, no, we don't know that. We won't know that until the iPhone is released and see how well it works. And we won't know that until someone rips it apart, and starts examining the underpinnings to see whether it really is OS X underneath, or a real 'minimalist' version of OS X that has very little in common with the full version.
post #10 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Louzer View Post

I don't want to start sounding like your standard Apple basher (TOO LATE!), but, no, we don't know that. We won't know that until the iPhone is released and see how well it works. And we won't know that until someone rips it apart, and starts examining the underpinnings to see whether it really is OS X underneath, or a real 'minimalist' version of OS X that has very little in common with the full version.

That's true..once the iPhone is in a greedy little Tech's hands who's curious we'll likely know a bit more about the makeup of iPhone OS X. Man I'd love to see what's on the roadpmap for the iPhone series.
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post #11 of 55
sort of off-topic but back-up cameras are only useful when you're driving a car that's way to big to begin with.
post #12 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Louzer View Post

BTW, why would you need an iSight for backup camera operation? Or is it just necessary to throw that in there to make 10 (since mine does this without the need of iSight or OS X).

Because the backup camera needs a camera?
post #13 of 55
How about a dock right on the dash or a slide in cradle for the iPhone? Instant syncing, the iPhone could use the car's external antenna, GPS, hard drive ect. Or with the new soptlight in Leopard could you imagine accessing documents on your home computer through your .Mac account. And if you get into your frineds car just slide in your iPhone for access you all of your documents, routes, music, video etc.
post #14 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by TKN View Post

So nobody is going to mind when more OS X stuff is delayed? While car nav systems definitely need some work, I think a lot of it is because there are no buttons. Designing systems which are quick to use without requiring a lot of visual feedback is a lot different than something like the iPhone.

And built-in GPS systems are ridiculously expensive for what you get. A top of the line Garmin or other player will cost you $600 and generally be better than the $2000 nav system that is integrated. I imagine they are looking at the HK GPS500 which is a pretty neat device, and if they would just integrate that it would be a thousand times better than the built-ins.

I hope they aren't doing it, but that is because they already are letting too much slide.

I've complained about the delays myself.

But, I would imagine that as Apple gets more into this, they will be hiring enough engineers to handle it. This is a new sales model for them, and they seem to be tiptoeing into it.

I do think they should be doing it.

In the long run, this would be the best thing for Apple's OS development. The biggest advantage MS has in this area, though, fortunately for Apple (and us), they haven't been able to take advantage of it, is that the costs of development is spread out amongst so many OEM, and retail copies. That brings the cost per copy down to a very small number, so that the profit is very high, as much as 80%.

If Apple can get the OS into computers, phones, iPods, ATv, and a good number of auto's, that could bring the number sold per year past 50 million. It could even go to 100 million, or even higher, if Apple plays it right.

This would be a very significant development.
post #15 of 55
Does it come with a Charging dock to sync my music.
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post #16 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bageljoey View Post

You know, this sounds like the thing people would go ape for.
All this time and R&D computer companies have put into trying to get the computer into the living room as an all in one info/entertainment system--maybe the first place they should have been looking was the car. That is a space where people spend tons of time and are trapped, so to speak. After we get used to it in the car, then we will want a AppleTV at home that shares those features...

I guess all that is really needed to make this vision work is solid, high speed access to the internet. dont know if what is out there is good enough, but I guess it is inevitable.

Apple is lucky (forsightful?) as people are already used to plugging their iPods into the car. It will make sense for them to buy an iCarputer--especially after they geet hooked on the iPhone

Access to GPS is number one. Access to the internet could be spotty, unless some deal for satellite service was arranged for downloads, at least.
post #17 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

Good

Apple should license the hell out of OS X/Multi touch.


Nav systems have improved but many are still horrible to "ok" for user interface "navigation"

I think that the turn of the next decade will usher in the "Carputer" where you have full access and services that a desktop/laptop would.

Imagine the possibilities.

1. Web access wherever you go...easy webmail access to your messages.
2. iTunes access....kids need a new movie for a trip...download something new while you drive.
3. Flexibility- enable wireless monitors that can accept difference sources so that passengers have access to disperate entertainment sources.
4. iPhone integration...sync you calendar/contacts and any other relevant data. So that the "right" data is always near you.
5. GPS data that combines "turn by turn" and arial Google Earth pictures of your trip/destination.
6. iSight support for backup cameras
7. Voice Recognition for comand and control of Carputer and text to speech for reading your emails/documents to you.
8. Destination and "Points of Interest" pop up in a HUD with relevant data.
9. XM/Sirius radio and support for NAV traffic
10. DVD player included though Nav map data resides on mini hard drive. DVD uploads new data to hdd.

I'm still waiting for the arrival of the VR suits with force feedback that were introduced in the early 90's...

If Apple wouldn't produce a tablet computer for hospitals for fear of liability should they crash at an adverse moment, what chance is there for a navigation system that runs the the same risk?
post #18 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Louzer View Post

Great, just what we need, even more people on the road not paying attention to driving, but playing with their nifty new carputer.

Oh, come on. There is so much stuff in cars now, that this won't be a problem. If it were done right, it would be easier, and less of a distraction than current systems. Perhaps Apple's new voice technology could be used.

Quote:
BTW, why would you need an iSight for backup camera operation? Or is it just necessary to throw that in there to make 10 (since mine does this without the need of iSight or OS X).

Some cars use cameras for backing up, and for regular road use as well. It's been shown to be much more accurate for people to use than those mirrors with the ubiquitous " Objects are closer than they appear" imprinted on the mirror surface.

If the screen would be in front of you, you wouldn't have to look sideways, out of the car, or up, and off the road, when checking. It would be much safer.
post #19 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by caliminius View Post

I'm still waiting for the arrival of the VR suits with force feedback that were introduced in the early 90's...

If Apple wouldn't produce a tablet computer for hospitals for fear of liability should they crash at an adverse moment, what chance is there for a navigation system that runs the the same risk?

That's a big difference. MS's OS has warnings not to use it for life critical purposes. It also states that it isn't to be used for nuclear power plants. What does that have to do with it? It's in BMW's now.
post #20 of 55
This report is ridiculous, plain and simple. There are so many other places where Apple could make improvements to OSes. Why on earth would they go after the NAV system market?

Speaking of fixing OSes, how can Apple conquer the portable media market, launch a ginormous attack against the Cell Phone industry, and still can't manage to FTFF?!?!?!?!?!??!?!

-Clive
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post #21 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clive At Five View Post

This report is ridiculous, plain and simple. There are so many other places where Apple could make improvements to OSes. Why on earth would they go after the NAV system market?

Because that would be a business that Apple could sell many millions of copies to.
post #22 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clive At Five View Post

This report is ridiculous, plain and simple. There are so many other places where Apple could make improvements to OSes. Why on earth would they go after the NAV system market?

Speaking of fixing OSes, how can Apple conquer the portable media market, launch a ginormous attack against the Cell Phone industry, and still can't manage to FTFF?!?!?!?!?!??!?!

-Clive

Wow...content free. Your thesis statement claims that this isa a ridiculous venture for Apple. Your supporting statements center around areas that Apple could improve the OS yet mysteriously you offer no suggestions. Then your grand finale is a specious argument against the Finder which we already know has improvements in Leopard.

Try to engage both halves of your brain next time please. Your post basically made me have to scroll that much further to get to "meaningful" content. So as to make my post worthy of reading and inject a bit of content the reasons for Apple looking into this area are easy.

The iPhone delivers excellent OS X functionality in a small portable configuration. GPS based navigational system are becoming more and more popular as options for automobiles. 3G, WiMax and other WWAN technologies are proliferating. Bonjour now supports Wide Area networks and work is ensuing to allow you to deliver services via your computer without the need for a static IP address.

Many people commute, which can easily take 2 hours out of your day. Apple has the OS and Google has the extensive work with Mapping to form a strategic alliance.

Can we get some "real" reasons why this union shouldn't happen? Other than hyperbole and stale commentary about issues that are already addressed and waiting to be delivered in October.
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post #23 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Louzer View Post

BTW, why would you need an iSight for backup camera operation? Or is it just necessary to throw that in there to make 10 (since mine does this without the need of iSight or OS X).

I think backup cameras in current cars do need some sort of embedded digital electronics. OS X can probably allow more control or flexibility in how it is handled.
post #24 of 55
EDIT: Wow...that's a first.
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post #25 of 55
Told you.
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post #26 of 55
Does anyone who is into Apple/iPod/Macs drive Mercedes-Benz? I sort of associate M-B it with being an old folks' car (not that I am a spring chicken) -- I mean, more like the Caddy crowd...?
post #27 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Some cars use cameras for backing up..... It's been shown to be much more accurate for people to use than those mirrors with the ubiquitous " Objects are closer than they appear" imprinted on the mirror surface.

I've now been driving a vehicle with a back-up camera for over three years now, and can't imagine not having one anymore when I need to back up -- it's a bit scary how one can get totally used to it.

PS: I now sweat bullets when I have a large-ish car, e.g., rental, w/o the camera, and need to back up!
post #28 of 55
You think i can fit a mac pro in a car? And two 30 inch screens?
post #29 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrpiddly View Post

You think i can fit a mac pro in a car? And two 30 inch screens?

Depends on the car.
post #30 of 55
Anyone willing to bet that Apple has a skunkworks project in development to co-develop vehicle navigation systems for future cars (like DARPA's self-navigating vehicle). Apple could be on the forefront of 'intelligent vehicle' systems integration...

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

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post #31 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

Wow...content free.

Can we get some "real" reasons why this union shouldn't happen? Other than hyperbole and stale commentary about issues that are already addressed and waiting to be delivered in October.

Checking e-mail, making phone calls, surfing the web, and watching movies which are a thing that drivers should not be doing. The only usefulness of those functions would be on a per-passenger basis and would undoubtedly be cheaper than each passenger having an iPhone. Offering no advantage over individual iPhones the only thing it would do is lose Apple money.

The only remaining capability would be GPS and the NAV system navigation itself, neither of which are much worth Apple's time. Google, yes, but Apple, no.

As for the Finder and Leopard, Stacks is the only actual enhancement I see. It eliminates a couple more items from Bruce Tognazzini's list regarding the Dock's shortcomings, but others still remain. As for the iTunes Finder windows, many will soon find out that Cover Flow is only good for folders with a lot of pictures. It is one task that Windows XP has outshown OS X on for many years. For anything else, it's sheer glitz.

-Clive
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post #32 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clive At Five View Post

NAV systems are not a natural progression of Apple's realm. I can only think of one other device that didn't fit Apple's realm initially (the iPod) and that was a 1:1,000,000 shot at becoming as popular is it did. Everything that followed - the iTMS, color/photo iPod, tv content on iTS, video-capable iPod, movies on iTS, games on iTS, AppleTV, iPhone - were natural progressions of that product's untamed market. The NAV system in a car could very well be an extension of this line (more along the lines of an iPhone-type interface) but I don't see Apple going that way. Checking e-mail, making phone calls, surfing the web, and

We are waiting in anticipation.

and...

What?
post #33 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

We are waiting in anticipation.

and...

What?

Safari for Windows ate my post, that son of a bitch. It was really good, too. Now I'm forced to paraphrase and likely lose the meaning of half of what I was saying.

-Clive
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post #34 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clive At Five View Post

Checking e-mail, making phone calls, surfing the web, and watching movies which are a thing that drivers should not be doing.

Most car systems I've heard of lock out most of those features when the car is in drive, if the driver can see the screen. I think the lock-out is a legal compliance issue.
post #35 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clive At Five View Post

Checking e-mail, making phone calls, surfing the web, and watching movies which are a thing that drivers should not be doing. The only usefulness of those functions would be on a per-passenger basis and would undoubtedly be cheaper than each passenger having an iPhone. Offering no advantage over individual iPhones the only thing it would do is lose Apple money.

The only remaining capability would be GPS and the NAV system navigation itself, neither of which are much worth Apple's time. Google, yes, but Apple, no.

As for the Finder and Leopard, Stacks is the only actual enhancement I see. It eliminates a couple more items from Bruce Tognazzini's list regarding the Dock's shortcomings, but others still remain. As for the iTunes Finder windows, many will soon find out that Cover Flow is only good for folders with a lot of pictures. It is one task that Windows XP has outshown OS X on for many years. For anything else, it's sheer glitz.

-Clive

It's fairly trivial to have your emails read through your speakers via Text to Speech. Didn't Apple just create a new voice that performs much better. How hard is it to drive and listen? We do it everyday with music and conversation. Ditto for making calls via Bluetooth. WA state just passed a law where you can be fined for driving with one hand on the wheel one hand on the cell. Hands free takes care of that and keeps both hands on the wheel. Problem solved

As Jeff and I have said the other features are operational in a parked car. I think you're the only one calling the idea itself ridiculous so the burden of proof really is with you.

The Finder updates look benign and I wasn't happy until NDA bustin' data hit. Performance has improved, no more network mount issues. Cover Flow is eyecandy...the steak is in a more organized look with the ability to search local and shared computers as well as take control. I don't mind having Remote Desktop features available. Cover flow is also a UI element that translates well to touch based screens which is likely why Apple is adding it everywhere.

Truth be told those who are traveling significantly want smaller and smaller devices. Navigation capabilities are the bread and butter but there's so much more that can be done to make travel/communication/safety synergize in a dashboard product.
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post #36 of 55
why exclusively for benz tho???
post #37 of 55
By the by, where did these new icons come from. They appeared between posts... just like that!
post #38 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWintoxication View Post

why exclusively for benz tho???

Perhaps they are working on it together.
post #39 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

That's a big difference. MS's OS has warnings not to use it for life critical purposes. It also states that it isn't to be used for nuclear power plants. What does that have to do with it? It's in BMW's now.

OS X has the same warnings, as do most pieces of computer hardware.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

It's fairly trivial to have your emails read through your speakers via Text to Speech. Didn't Apple just create a new voice that performs much better. How hard is it to drive and listen? We do it everyday with music and conversation. Ditto for making calls via Bluetooth. WA state just passed a law where you can be fined for driving with one hand on the wheel one hand on the cell. Hands free takes care of that and keeps both hands on the wheel. Problem solved

Sorry, but listening to music is completely different then listening to conversation or emails. One requires no thought, its background plather (I'm talking music here). Its been shown that cell phone use, even 'hands free' devices, still distract users from paying attention to the road. As would listening to emails and such. The reason being you actually have to spend part of you're attention on trying to comprehend what's being said, rather then what's happening around you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

As Jeff and I have said the other features are operational in a parked car. I think you're the only one calling the idea itself ridiculous so the burden of proof really is with you.

That depends on the system. My NAV system works while the car is moving.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

Truth be told those who are traveling significantly want smaller and smaller devices. Navigation capabilities are the bread and butter but there's so much more that can be done to make travel/communication/safety synergize in a dashboard product.

But having a carputer makes no financial or practical sense. Do you notice that no one has a 'car phone' anymore? Because once they realized they could only use it in the car, people went for the ones not tied to the auto itself. Who wants to spend $2000 on a NAV system that only works while you're sitting in the parking lot of your office, or your driveway at home? Where's the sense in that?
post #40 of 55
I've been thinking for YEARS that computers need to be in the dash of cars.

It's obscene how much the factory charges for a navigation system or even a simple CD player (remember how long it took for them to put CD players into cars?!).

Check out this site for lots of cars with Macs in the dash:

http://www.macvroom.com/

Currently,my iPod controls my entire car stereo (600W subwoofers + 100x2 Boston front components). Sounds great. It even has a docking/charging base with remote control! Some POS thief stole my Kenwood headunit so decided to go this route. I don't get any front/back fading, but so what? I don't even have rear speakers...

Wouldn't one of those PCMCIA cellular cards work for internet? They're decently fast, and work whereever a cell phone works.

Personally, I think this rumor is crap, unfortunately.

Mac Mini, iPhone 4S, AppleTV, iPad.

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Mac user since 1996 ("The Dark Days")

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Mac Mini, iPhone 4S, AppleTV, iPad.

-------------------------------------------------------
Mac user since 1996 ("The Dark Days")

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