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Explosives-Packed Car Defused in London - Page 2

post #41 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Definitely. After all, Mayor Street was all about getting one: http://www.breitbart.com/article.php...show_article=1



1. What freedom have you lost, personally?

2. That's overstated. Anti-Americanism is prevalent, particularly in old Europe, but we are not hated everywhere to be sure.

3. This has been true for 100 years. The deficit is actually dropping dramatically. Still, I'm all for cutting spending.

4. I see that point. I don't agree totally, but I see it.

5. "Tyrannical" and "the worst in history." Slightly extreme, I think.

6. Perhaps you'd like to link to some of that "intelligent" and "constructive" criticism.


Harping on this again?
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #42 of 132
You built a car bomb? From a Mercedes?



I'm withholding judgment until we see if this is a legitimate attack attempt, or just more fodder for the sheeple®...
You need skeptics, especially when the science gets very big and monolithic. -James Lovelock
The Story of Stuff
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You need skeptics, especially when the science gets very big and monolithic. -James Lovelock
The Story of Stuff
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post #43 of 132


Well, seems two bat-shit crazy Asians plowed a flaming Jeep Cherokee into an airport terminal in Scotland. Funny though, they seem to think this could be a terrorist attack. Could be just two Asians who couldn't stand the treatment they're getting in Scotland to me. We'll see as this story is played out. Man, I feel for the U.K. right now. Must be frustrating, confusing through all this. Hang in there.
post #44 of 132
It seems as if the British have forgotten about the 30+ year campaign of terror by the Provisional IRA which pulled off terrorist attacks every other week on the UK (and even European) mainland between 1969 and after 2000 ... bombs of almost every imaginable description. One bomb almost assassinated half the UK Cabinet including PM Thatcher at the Tory Party Conference in Brighton UK when they attacked the hotel that senior government officials were staying at. Was there an over-reaction, a crazy-assed paranoid police state response to some *real* terrorism... no way. People took it in their stride and life went on, civil rights and liberties remained as they were, and the Orwellian stuff of the present was an unrealized nightmare.

The lethal campaign by the "Provos" (thousands dead, 10s of thousands seriously hurt) was never referred to as "terrorism" in the U.S. media.. "Irish freedom fighters" was a more common phrase. And ironically, the significant proportion of the funding for this nefarious activity came from the New York based Irish American organization "NORAID".

It looks as if the recent UK "bombs" were not meant to explode, that is, if they ever *could have*.. (which looks most unlikely judging by how they were "constructed" ). This current spate of incidents seems designed to put the "war on terror" back in the public spotlight, namely to try to scare (read terrorize) the public.. and re-equate the terms "Muslim" and Islamic" with "Terrorism" in the public "consciousness".
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #45 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammi jo View Post

The lethal campaign by the "Provos" (thousands dead, 10s of thousands seriously hurt) was never referred to as "terrorism" in the U.S. media.. "Irish freedom fighters" was a more common phrase.

Bullshit. They were always called terrorists.
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"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
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post #46 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammi jo View Post

It seems as if the British have forgotten about the 30+ year campaign of terror by the Provisional IRA which pulled off terrorist attacks every other week on the UK (and even European) mainland between 1969 and after 2000 ... bombs of almost every imaginable description. One bomb almost assassinated half the UK Cabinet including PM Thatcher at the Tory Party Conference in Brighton UK when they attacked the hotel that senior government officials were staying at. Was there an over-reaction, a crazy-assed paranoid police state response to some *real* terrorism... no way. People took it in their stride and life went on, civil rights and liberties remained as they were, and the Orwellian stuff of the present was an unrealized nightmare.

Good point, I'd almost forgotten about the IRA's campaigns. Interesting contrast. Oklahoma City and the 1993 WTC attack didn't cause that much of a stir over here either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hardeeharhar View Post

Bullshit. They were always called terrorists.

Not officially:

Quote:
The organisation is classified as an illegal terrorist group in the United Kingdom[4] and as an illegal organisation in the Republic of Ireland.[5] However it is not currently listed as a terrorist organisation in the United States of America by the U.S. State Department.
You need skeptics, especially when the science gets very big and monolithic. -James Lovelock
The Story of Stuff
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You need skeptics, especially when the science gets very big and monolithic. -James Lovelock
The Story of Stuff
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post #47 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by iPoster View Post

Good point, I'd almost forgotten about the IRA's campaigns. Interesting contrast. Oklahoma City and the 1993 WTC attack didn't cause that much of a stir over here either.



Not officially:

Maybe we all should go through each countries' state department and add up all countries that list the IRA as a "terrorist" group. Now exactly, what would be the purpose of doing that?

When has the IRA ever attacked the USA? Specific dates, times, and/or events if you don't mind, TYVM!
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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post #48 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammi jo View Post

It seems as if the British have forgotten about the 30+ year campaign of terror by the Provisional IRA which pulled off terrorist attacks every other week on the UK (and even European) mainland between 1969 and after 2000 ... bombs of almost every imaginable description. One bomb almost assassinated half the UK Cabinet including PM Thatcher at the Tory Party Conference in Brighton UK when they attacked the hotel that senior government officials were staying at. Was there an over-reaction, a crazy-assed paranoid police state response to some *real* terrorism... no way. People took it in their stride and life went on, civil rights and liberties remained as they were, and the Orwellian stuff of the present was an unrealized nightmare.

The lethal campaign by the "Provos" (thousands dead, 10s of thousands seriously hurt) was never referred to as "terrorism" in the U.S. media.. "Irish freedom fighters" was a more common phrase. And ironically, the significant proportion of the funding for this nefarious activity came from the New York based Irish American organization "NORAID".

It looks as if the recent UK "bombs" were not meant to explode, that is, if they ever *could have*.. (which looks most unlikely judging by how they were "constructed" ). This current spate of incidents seems designed to put the "war on terror" back in the public spotlight, namely to try to scare (read terrorize) the public.. and re-equate the terms "Muslim" and Islamic" with "Terrorism" in the public "consciousness".

You are an absolute joke. I suppose 7/7 and 9/11 were just false flag operations too.
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post #49 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

You are an absolute joke. I suppose 7/7 and 9/11 were just false flag operations too.

Until you respond to me SDW, your right to call people absolute jokes is hereby revoked. In fact, you, sir, are an absolute joke.

 

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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #50 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

You are an absolute joke. I suppose 7/7 and 9/11 were just false flag operations too.

Prove they weren't....
If it looks like a duck.... you know the rest.
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #51 of 132


Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #52 of 132
So, fearmongering is the way we win the war on fear trumpet?

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #53 of 132
post #54 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

That's a rather loaded question and you know it. I, personally, don't go out and protest at a Bush speech so I'm not personally penned into special "free speech" zones. I, personally, am not involved in the military so I can't personally feel the fallout resulting in Bush's intentional ignorance of the Geneva Convention. I, personally, don't use public libraries so I don't personally have my records open to government scrutiny without a warrant. I, personally, don't fly often so I personally don't deal with the unnecessary hassles of our inefficient and misguided airport security. I, personally, am not a member of congress so I personally don't miss the ability to provide a check for the executive branch.

You are welcome to note how any of these has been fixed or even addressed by a Democratic Congress or a Democratic President. Clinton put the V chip in your television. Tipper Gore put the PMRC sticker on the CD's you buy. All of them want the village to raise your child.

Quote:
We had the entire world behind us after 9/11. We squandered nearly all of that good will. Overstated my ass.

People feel less capable of kicking someone when they are down. Bush had his highest level of support when 9/11 happened. Clinton had his highest level of support when he was impeached. Also what about good actions instead of good will? Are we the ones seeking to be president for life like Chavez? Are we the ones starting to point missles at Europe again and cutting off fuel via pipelines like Putin? Are we the ones inviting immigrants into our European Union and then watching them blow up and burn cars in England and France?

If that is how good will is expressed, I'll take the animosity thank you.

Quote:
We HAD a balanced budget before this fucking weasel took office.

We did and both the Republicans who aged into RINO's and who had promised to pass term limits to insure they wouldn't become entrenched and the president deserve to be tossed for this. However again, you are welcome to show the last time a Democratic Congress balanced a budget. This Democratic Congress has not reversed the Bush tax cuts. They've not addressed the Patriot Act. They've not done anything and most of them running for president voted for and have plenty of weaselly language to explain their previous support and votes for these acts.

In fact do a little check and you will find the Patriot Act was initially passed by 98 Senators. Feingold is the ONLY Senator who voted against it. With the renewal, 89 Senators voted for it and I'll give you a hint, Clinton, Biden, Edwards and Kerry voted for it twice.

Quote:
You can't win a war on a word. Our government preys on our fears to fund a war allegedly against fear itself. Do you not see how fucking outrageous that is?

If it is so outrageous then why did Americans vote to reelect Bush and also reelect those who supported the war like Clinton, Biden and Kerry? Are we now supposed to elect war supporters like Clinton, Edwards and Biden? Obama and Gore weren't in office so they can claim whatever they want. Like how Gore was VP for 8 years and pushed exactly nothing environmentally during that time. He was phoning the Chinese for political contributions and watching Kyoto go down the tubes but dammit, we are now supposed to believe he would have governed differently when the jet fuel was raining down on Manhatten.

Bullshit. The Democrats are the party who wants to protect you from yourself even before the terrorists come knocking on our doorstep.

Quote:
Tyrannical (adj) - Characterized by or favoring absolute obedience to authority; Having and exercising complete political power and control.

Finally congress grew a spine and said no to the president at least on one issue the other day. However, when the overriding tactic in dealing with those who disagree with the president over the last 6 years is to call said person anti-american and unpatriotic, we have a problem. When congress can't look at the discussions regarding our country's energy policy because secrecy is prized over openness, we have a problem. When the President of the United States enters us into a war under false pretenses and then denies ever making those very claims in the first place even though video clips clearly show he did, we have a motherfucking problem.

Said no on what? Immigration which was clearly beat back by Republicans and talk radio? Yeah, I'm sure that will be fixed by the Fairness Doctrine the Democrats desire to reinstate.

Of course they weren't called unamerican, they were just called bigots, racist, hate-mongers, etc.

You are right that government is the problem, so who the hell is going to shrink and fix this government, a Democrat?

Quote:
Ron Paul mentioned a reason why Osama bin Laden might have orchestrated 9/11 in one of the past debates. You saw the response he got from Guiliani et al.

I'll lay down cash today that a Democratic Congress with a Democratic President does not repeal the Patriot Act, does not act on the Bush tax cuts before they expire and while they will assign an end date to the Iraq war, will not really do more than reclassify the actions of the troops while slightly lowering the level of troops there. Are we out of Haiti yet? Ask yourself if we still have troops in the Balkins?

I think the platitudes are outweighing the critical thinking here. If our political discourse is nothing more than a laundry list of complaints, then nothing will change. We asked the Democrats how they would govern differently. They gave a list of complaints and now guess what, no solutions.

You point us to so some solutions and I'll listen. Otherwise the complaints are just so much bullshit because you can't replace something with nothing.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #55 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

So, fearmongering is the way we win the war on fear trumpet?

Is calling the fearmongering a bumper sticker stopping the cars from burning and exploding?

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #56 of 132
Trumpet, stop confusing me with someone who likes Democrats. I'm fucking tired of the canned response from both sides. BUT THE DEMOCRATS DO THIS! BUT THE REPUBLICANS DO THAT! Just fucking stop.

And doing all the horrible nasty stuff the government is already doing isn't stopping cars from burning and exploding either. Time for a Plan C.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #57 of 132
Then offer up the plan C. I see nothing but criticism.

I've advocated for the end of America as empire. I've said we can't be the police officer for th world and if that means higher prices because we have fair instead of free trade then that is fine with me. If it means we use our troops on our own borders and buy up all the corn the world instead of all the oil, then we need to buck and do so.

Offer up the plan C. I'm not merely saying Democrats are bad. I'm noting that when both sides vote for something it is called consensus. It wasn't Bush the evil little dictator imposing his will on us via his secret police against massive and overwhelming resistance.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #58 of 132
Pull troops out of Iraq and cut military ties with other non-democratic states such as Saudi Arabia, dismantling those military bases.

Understand that we will never be 100% safe but it is not worth sacrificing our core ideals for the feeling of security.

Tell the country to be brave, not to be scared. Encourage our citizenry to be educated as to why others don't like us. Part of why they don't like us is because we don't know why they don't like us.

Stop treating corporations like individuals and deny them the ability to contribute directly or indirectly to campaigns.

Implement very low fundraising caps for Presidential candidates.

Dismantle the IRS and implement the Fairtax.

Legalize Marijuana.

Return to the gold standard and severely limit the practice of fractional reserve banking.

Leave marriage to religion and only recognize civil unions for legal purposes.

Police our own borders but also streamline the immigration process so more folks can legally enter the country to work.

Require a balanced budget without the bullshit of including the Social Security surplus in the general fund. If a balanced budget is not passed on time, the entire congress and the president may not run for reelection.

There is a thing called an off button. Parents need to take responsibility for their own children and the FCC should not be punishing the rest of the adults in the country.

Drop the embargo with Cuba.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #59 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Then offer up the plan C. I see nothing but criticism.

I've advocated for the end of America as empire. I've said we can't be the police officer for th world and if that means higher prices because we have fair instead of free trade then that is fine with me. If it means we use our troops on our own borders and buy up all the corn the world instead of all the oil, then we need to buck and do so.

Offer up the plan C. I'm not merely saying Democrats are bad. I'm noting that when both sides vote for something it is called consensus. It wasn't Bush the evil little dictator imposing his will on us via his secret police against massive and overwhelming resistance.

Nick

Well Trumpy try as you may if you read recent polls it's the " Consensus " that Bush is doing the worst job possible.

This will be reflected in the " Consensus " of the next election.

Now let's talk about the " Deathstar ".
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #60 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Pull troops out of Iraq and cut military ties with other non-democratic states such as Saudi Arabia, dismantling those military bases.

Understand that we will never be 100% safe but it is not worth sacrificing our core ideals for the feeling of security.

Tell the country to be brave, not to be scared. Encourage our citizenry to be educated as to why others don't like us. Part of why they don't like us is because we don't know why they don't like us.

Stop treating corporations like individuals and deny them the ability to contribute directly or indirectly to campaigns.

Implement very low fundraising caps for Presidential candidates.

Dismantle the IRS and implement the Fairtax.

Legalize Marijuana.

Return to the gold standard and severely limit the practice of fractional reserve banking.

Leave marriage to religion and only recognize civil unions for legal purposes.

Police our own borders but also streamline the immigration process so more folks can legally enter the country to work.

Require a balanced budget without the bullshit of including the Social Security surplus in the general fund. If a balanced budget is not passed on time, the entire congress and the president may not run for reelection.

There is a thing called an off button. Parents need to take responsibility for their own children and the FCC should not be punishing the rest of the adults in the country.

Drop the embargo with Cuba.


Ding, ding, ding! This guy get's the award for a sane answer!
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #61 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

Maybe we all should go through each countries' state department and add up all countries that list the IRA as a "terrorist" group. Now exactly, what would be the purpose of doing that?

When has the IRA ever attacked the USA? Specific dates, times, and/or events if you don't mind, TYVM!

Never said they did attack the USA, I was just pointing out that they were not classified as a terrorist group by the USA. I was agreeing with Sammi Jo that the IRA committed much worse and more frequent terror attacks that Britain or the West altogether has experienced altogether in the War on Terror®, without all the Big Brother over watching and civil rights infringements and bombs dropping.

That said, I totally disagree with the PIRA's past use of terrorist methods; even if a few of my past relatives were (rumored) to be IRA... \
You need skeptics, especially when the science gets very big and monolithic. -James Lovelock
The Story of Stuff
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You need skeptics, especially when the science gets very big and monolithic. -James Lovelock
The Story of Stuff
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post #62 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Then offer up the plan C. I see nothing but criticism.

I've advocated for the end of America as empire. I've said we can't be the police officer for th world and if that means higher prices because we have fair instead of free trade then that is fine with me. If it means we use our troops on our own borders and buy up all the corn the world instead of all the oil, then we need to buck and do so.

Offer up the plan C. I'm not merely saying Democrats are bad. I'm noting that when both sides vote for something it is called consensus. It wasn't Bush the evil little dictator imposing his will on us via his secret police against massive and overwhelming resistance.

Nick

Welcome to Berserker World™ on your right is Paranoia Park™, on your left is Conspiracy Carnival™, and Exit Express™ is straight ahead.
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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post #63 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post



Nick

Ramirez.. sheesh. An authoritarian weasel, (skilled cartoonist though).

The "global war on terror is just a bumper sticker?" The global war on terror is a duplicitous sham, started on a huge LIE, subsequently oiled by deceit, riven with theft and fuelled by greed. And the misinformed public are still buying it.
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #64 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Pull troops out of Iraq and cut military ties with other non-democratic states such as Saudi Arabia, dismantling those military bases.

Why stop there? Bring them all home to defend home. End America as empire.

Quote:
Understand that we will never be 100% safe but it is not worth sacrificing our core ideals for the feeling of security.

That is a nice platitude. Sadly we need to apply it to ourselves and end our redistributive income policies using that are justified using nothing more than fear and security as well.

Quote:
Tell the country to be brave, not to be scared. Encourage our citizenry to be educated as to why others don't like us. Part of why they don't like us is because we don't know why they don't like us.

How about we stop worrying about being liked and worry about what is right.

Quote:
Stop treating corporations like individuals and deny them the ability to contribute directly or indirectly to campaigns.

I think you need to review the founding of America starting with the Boston Tea Party. Taxation without representation would be the best place to start. Corporations are taxed and thus deserve to influence and fight for representation. If you don't want them to demand influence and representation, stop taxing them.

Quote:
Implement very low fundraising caps for Presidential candidates.

Nonsense, as George Will loves to point out, we spend less electing a president than we do on vanilla ice cream. No limits, full disclosure. We let the rich pay for everything else in our society, why not the elections. Then the candidates could spend their time discussing ideas instead of working the phones.

Quote:
Dismantle the IRS and implement the Fairtax.

How about we dismantle most of the government, dismantle the IRS and let what the federal government ought to be doing be paid for with tariffs and other import taxes.

Quote:
Legalize Marijuana.

Why stop there? Of course private insurance should be able to charge accordingly based off these decisions.

Quote:
Return to the gold standard and severely limit the practice of fractional reserve banking.

Some standard other than paper would be nice. We can't return because we have so much paper now though. We've bought lots of something with nothing. Who is going to promote a reform where all the people holding the nothing realize the lie?

Quote:
Leave marriage to religion and only recognize civil unions for legal purposes.

Sounds good, but lets add that one party must find fault in order to end a contract whether that contract be called civil unions or marriage. It's harder to get out of your cell phone contract than your marraige at this stage.

Quote:
Police our own borders but also streamline the immigration process so more folks can legally enter the country to work.

I would suggest that we simply reallocate our current slots. We have stagnant wages and no proof that those jobs wouldn't be filled by Americans if the level of pay rose.

Quote:
Require a balanced budget without the bullshit of including the Social Security surplus in the general fund. If a balanced budget is not passed on time, the entire congress and the president may not run for reelection.

We don't have to include Social Security if it is abolished. What sort of country are we where the elderly have half the poverty rate of their children while being retired?!? We take food out of the mouths of children to feed grandma. Again if we believe, as you said, that we can never be 100% safe and must hold our principles above fear and security, we must allow people to care for and fend for themselves.

Quote:
There is a thing called an off button. Parents need to take responsibility for their own children and the FCC should not be punishing the rest of the adults in the country.

Agreed but people also deserve the right to informed consent. The current rating systems make no sense and also industry itself has limited the ability to turn off or alter their own bullshit. If I want to delete all the fuck words from my copy of Die Hard, I should have that right as well.

Quote:
Drop the embargo with Cuba.

Nice platitude but doesn't quite gel with your contention above about dealing with democratic countries. We should take care of home and not support governments, ideas or anything else with which we disagree.

Finally, insuring enforcement of ideas, especially if certain countries or nationalities appear to disproportionately not support or endorse those ideas is not sexism, racism or any other ism. So if Mexico refuses to undertake economic reforms, the poor that result from that are not the fault or job of the U.S. to take on. Refusal to do so is not racism.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Well Trumpy try as you may if you read recent polls it's the " Consensus " that Bush is doing the worst job possible.

This will be reflected in the " Consensus " of the next election.

Now let's talk about the " Deathstar ".

The even larger consensus is that Congress is doing worse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

Welcome to Berserker World on your right is Paranoia Park, on your left is Conspiracy Carnival, and Exit Express is straight ahead.

An ad-hom by any other name sticks just as bad.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #65 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Why stop there? Bring them all home to defend home. End America as empire.

There are still places in the world that both need and want help. I am not suggesting 100% isolationism. But yes, in theory, bring home as many as can be spared.

Quote:
That is a nice platitude. Sadly we need to apply it to ourselves and end our redistributive income policies using that are justified using nothing more than fear and security as well.

Twist, twist, twist. There's nothing wrong with giving back to the very society that helped prop you up in the first place. It simply needs to be done fairly. Perhaps with the FAIRTAX (http://www.fairtax.org).


Quote:
How about we stop worrying about being liked and worry about what is right.

Let's just replace the word like with respect and definitely spend a lot of time worrying about that.


Quote:
I think you need to review the founding of America starting with the Boston Tea Party. Taxation without representation would be the best place to start. Corporations are taxed and thus deserve to influence and fight for representation. If you don't want them to demand influence and representation, stop taxing them.

I think you need to review your not being a jackass lessons. Not being so fucking condescending is the best place to start. Do some reading of your own about the FairTax. It handles your issues about corporate taxes.


Quote:
Nonsense, as George Will loves to point out, we spend less electing a president than we do on vanilla ice cream. No limits, full disclosure. We let the rich pay for everything else in our society, why not the elections. Then the candidates could spend their time discussing ideas instead of working the phones.

Ah yes, of course. This is a wonderful idea. Why not just replace the entire Congress with the CEOs of the Fortune 500 companies and tear up the Constitution instead? Being honest about who bought you doesn't mitigate the fact that you were still bought.

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How about we dismantle most of the government, dismantle the IRS and let what the federal government ought to be doing be paid for with tariffs and other import taxes.

Sure thing. Or just meet halfway in between and use the Fairtax.

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Why stop there? Of course private insurance should be able to charge accordingly based off these decisions.

I have no problem with all drugs being decriminalized.

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Some standard other than paper would be nice. We can't return because we have so much paper now though. We've bought lots of something with nothing. Who is going to promote a reform where all the people holding the nothing realize the lie?

What's the alternative in the long run? At some point we're going to have to bite the bullet in one way or another.

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Sounds good, but lets add that one party must find fault in order to end a contract whether that contract be called civil unions or marriage. It's harder to get out of your cell phone contract than your marraige at this stage.

And let's further add that polygamous civil unions also are legal.

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I would suggest that we simply reallocate our current slots. We have stagnant wages and no proof that those jobs wouldn't be filled by Americans if the level of pay rose.

You would, wouldn't you. What's wrong with competition? Oh no, people who want to work harder might get the job!



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We don't have to include Social Security if it is abolished. What sort of country are we where the elderly have half the poverty rate of their children while being retired?!? We take food out of the mouths of children to feed grandma. Again if we believe, as you said, that we can never be 100% safe and must hold our principles above fear and security, we must allow people to care for and fend for themselves.

Social Security does not need to be abolished if we just end this bullshit Pay-As-You-Go scheme we have set up now. Through intelligent modifications and trimming fat in other areas, we can still guarantee the health and well-being of our elderly and disabled. The lack of any heart whatsoever is what has caused my state of disillusion with the Libertarian party.

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Agreed but people also deserve the right to informed consent. The current rating systems make no sense and also industry itself has limited the ability to turn off or alter their own bullshit. If I want to delete all the fuck words from my copy of Die Hard, I should have that right as well.

The rating systems should be opened up but you are speaking in utter hyperbole here. No sense? No sense if you are a moron. How about if you don't want to hear the "fuck" in Die Hard, you don't fucking watch Die Hard? Why is it up to the artists to cater to your prudish whims?

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Nice platitude but doesn't quite gel with your contention above about dealing with democratic countries. We should take care of home and not support governments, ideas or anything else with which we disagree.

Bullshit. I said remove military bases from Middle Eastern dictatorships which add fuel to the fire of Osama bin Laden et al. China, a communist regime, has fucking favored trade status with us. Why the hell do we still have an embargo with Cuba?

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Finally, insuring enforcement of ideas, especially if certain countries or nationalities appear to disproportionately not support or endorse those ideas is not sexism, racism or any other ism. So if Mexico refuses to undertake economic reforms, the poor that result from that are not the fault or job of the U.S. to take on. Refusal to do so is not racism.

Like it or not, trumpet, your neighbors affect your property value and your quality of life. Refusing to lend a helping hand because dey terk err jorbs!, or due to <blank>ism or whatever other reason just hurts yourself in the long run.

We live in this world. We should make the best of it for everyone. I don't want to hear God Bless America ever again. If you must invoke some deity, let it be instead to bless each and every one of us who are fortunate enough to live on this tiny little ball we call Earth.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #66 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

An ad-hom by any other name sticks just as bad.

Nick

I didn't mean to single you out, I could have directed it toward sammi_jo also, perhaps I should have just posted a reply sans quote.

Also, exchange left for right in my previous post, it makes little difference.
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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post #67 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

There are still places in the world that both need and want help. I am not suggesting 100% isolationism. But yes, in theory, bring home as many as can be spared.

You don't want 100% isolationism, you just want some magic line where somehow we spend the money, but take no interest and where they don't feel entitled, don't blame us for their backwards economy and also don't start creating suicide bombers.

Where is that magic line at BR? It isn't as if the UN really gets anything done. We do all the dirty work and heavy lifting yet if we actually expect ANY return for that we are some kind of imperial assholes?

That is what most of the world and many of these terrorists think. Let them think it in isolation. They want us out, then let's get out. Iran wants to enrich uranium while their people burn down gas stations because of fuel rationing, let us let it happen instead of trying to fix it and then get yelled at for fixing it wrong, not being sensitive enough, etc.

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Twist, twist, twist. There's nothing wrong with giving back to the very society that helped prop you up in the first place. It simply needs to be done fairly. Perhaps with the FAIRTAX (http://www.fairtax.org).

Amazingly enough the people who "propped me up" did so because I reflected their values and they wanted them supported. No one has issues with helping but the reality is that the longer the government has been in the aid business, the more people have become entitled and dependent on said aid to simply get through life.

Your fair tax idea would work best if it were simply levied on the good coming into this country. Also a sales tax is the most regressive tax possible, even if given a credit for X number of dollars. I could support it though because I am sure it would lead to massive shrinking of the federal government. The reason people don't revolt now is they are off the tax rolls. I'm sure between the 8% in California and the 23% national rate, the revolt would occur within a week.

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Let's just replace the word like with respect and definitely spend a lot of time worrying about that.

Just another bullshit word to give a damn about countries that don't emulate what we do and resent that what they undertake does not lead to the same result.

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I think you need to review your not being a jackass lessons. Not being so fucking condescending is the best place to start. Do some reading of your own about the FairTax. It handles your issues about corporate taxes.

It spins it.

Under the FairTax plan, money retained in the business and reinvested to create jobs, build factories, or develop new technologies, pays no tax.

This is true of today. Nothing would change there. Corporations always spend first and get taxed on profit last which BTW, is the exact opposite of consumers. Nothing would change there.

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Ah yes, of course. This is a wonderful idea. Why not just replace the entire Congress with the CEOs of the Fortune 500 companies and tear up the Constitution instead? Being honest about who bought you doesn't mitigate the fact that you were still bought.

Why not engage in hyperbole instead of thinking? Because that is what would lead to what you just posted.

All the current bullshit, the nonsense that really makes it harder to tell who is owned by who in regards to money happens because of these limits. Would you really rather the NRA just gave whoever they want a couple million instead of bundling it through a bunch of names, running it through several PACS, and buying "issue" ads that confuse and distort instead of inform. This happens with all interest groups. They aren't going to stop being interested, they just funnel the money through a dozen different routes that makes it even harder to track.

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Sure thing. Or just meet halfway in between and use the Fairtax.

Half-way doesn't work. They don't have to pay 23% in Canada and Mexico, watch people go over the borders to buy items. Watch them have to pay a tariff on everything they bring back, watch them buy the items here.

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I have no problem with all drugs being decriminalized.

I would love to buy penicillin over the counter. I hope that is what you mean as well.

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And let's further add that polygamous civil unions also are legal.

Lets.

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You would, wouldn't you. What's wrong with competition? Oh no, people who want to work harder might get the job!

In a world where we don't have to worry about who has to pay and who grabs the benefits, I agree with you completely. We don't have that situation right now though. We have folks who get paid very little grabbing some very expensive services that their own wages and likely the taxes that either have or have not been paid on them do not cover.

Also about competition, I wouldn't have to worry about that. I don't compete with them. Like many other areas, I'm sure mechanization will actually be the answer to removing slave level wages. Finally some bullshit like "they might work harder" when the people you are competing against are facing communist regimes and police states or intolerable poverty due to us continually siphoning off the pressure for political change within their own countries is just crap.

The choice within the United States should not be work like a slave, or outwork someone living at the end of a gun barrel. Claiming that refusal to do so is laziness is complete and utter bullshit. Tariffs take care of such issues. It forces other countries to generate domestic demand rather than just shipping off products here tax free and letting the misery continue at home.

That misery is part of what leads to this type of terrorism. We feel guilt and allow massive immigration but don't force assimilation of the ideas that lead to the success here. Instead people spin it to be about race.

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Social Security does not need to be abolished if we just end this bullshit Pay-As-You-Go scheme we have set up now. Through intelligent modifications and trimming fat in other areas, we can still guarantee the health and well-being of our elderly and disabled. The lack of any heart whatsoever is what has caused my state of disillusion with the Libertarian party.

Retirement is not a right. If you have your entire long life to get your act together and do nothing, then you don't deserve to stop working. If you get to an age where you cannot work and you have not cultivated enough family, friends or anything other connection to help you, then you deserve to simply rot and die.

I'll gladly say it. The fact that the government covers these items now is what allows people to behave as they do. The money comes regardless of how you act or behave so no one has to behave well. Government pays for single parent childbirth, marriage crumbles, government pays for health when we get older and people are coming in fatter and more out of shape than ever, government pays for retirement, no one saves, and no one cultivates relationships.

Quote:
The rating systems should be opened up but you are speaking in utter hyperbole here. No sense? No sense if you are a moron. How about if you don't want to hear the "fuck" in Die Hard, you don't fucking watch Die Hard? Why is it up to the artists to cater to your prudish whims?

They don't have to cater to my prudish whims dummy. They just shouldn't be able to prevent me from removing the word myself. It is akin to McDonald's declaring you can't remove the pickles from your burger. If I buy the product, it should be mine to listen, view and do with as I desire as long as I do not commercially reproduce it.

They can produce it their way. However when I purchase it, I should be able to watch, listen or change it to my way. If I want to take out or add 50 fucks, that should be my prerogative once I purchase.

Quote:
Bullshit. I said remove military bases from Middle Eastern dictatorships which add fuel to the fire of Osama bin Laden et al. China, a communist regime, has fucking favored trade status with us. Why the hell do we still have an embargo with Cuba?

The better question is why does China, a communist regime have fucking favored trade status with us.

Quote:
Like it or not, trumpet, your neighbors affect your property value and your quality of life. Refusing to lend a helping hand because dey terk err jorbs!, or due to <blank>ism or whatever other reason just hurts yourself in the long run.

My neighbors do affect my property value which is why I should not have my speech limited (via contributions) to change laws related that matter. Likewise if they refuse to act in a manner that preserves their own property value or even the very roof over their head, I should not be forced to commit my own resources to sustain that lifestyle. Likewise I should have the right to remove myself from that neighbor and choose others that live as I want to live. This is true with countries and allies as well.

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What's the alternative in the long run? At some point we're going to have to bite the bullet in one way or another.

Missed one. Since no other currencies are backed by metal anymore either, the bullet likely is to be bitten worldwide at some point. All the more reason to keep industry, jobs and capital home.

Quote:
We live in this world. We should make the best of it for everyone.

Nice platitude. Sadly we need more than that when people want to kill or convert us.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #68 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by hardeeharhar View Post

i hope you are joking.

Yes, but it made perfect sense to some,\
"some catch on faster than others"
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"some catch on faster than others"
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post #69 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammi jo View Post

The lethal campaign by the "Provos" (thousands dead, 10s of thousands seriously hurt) was never referred to as "terrorism" in the U.S. media.. "Irish freedom fighters" was a more common phrase


This is inaccurate. They were most active long before the Islamics and they were viewed as scum bag terrorists. Although I will admit they had some sympathizers in the Irish-American community.

I, in fact, am on the no-fly list because my name is similar to someone currently involved with the IRA. Yes, fair-skin white guys get stopped at the airport too!
"some catch on faster than others"
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"some catch on faster than others"
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post #70 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Retirement is not a right. If you have your entire long life to get your act together and do nothing, then you don't deserve to stop working. If you get to an age where you cannot work and you have not cultivated enough family, friends or anything other connection to help you, then you deserve to simply rot and die.

What a sad, angry, pathetic person you are.
You are a person aren't you?
post #71 of 132
No of course I'm not a person. I'm a figment of your neurosis.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #72 of 132
Sad thing is I've seen this kind of transformation before in male elementary school teachers. Trumpet, you are a far different person now than when I first came to these boards. You used to be a nice breath of fresh air. Now you are a bitter, angry, crotchety old man. Compassion is still an admirable quality. It may not be the most efficient way to run a country but we are no better than the old Soviets without it.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #73 of 132
For a little perspective, as opposed to raging media paranoia and hype.....

Peanuts, lightning, swimming pools, and deer present more of a risk to Americans than international terrorism.

When can we expect the Bush Administration to launch a war on antlers, or a coalition of the willing to fight the scourge of swimming pools?
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #74 of 132
You've seen it in what... all eight of us nationwide?

The only change in me is atlas shrugging. I'm not bitter, angry or anything else you claim because, here's a hint, I've handled my business with regard to these issues.

The bitter people are those who believe that the world is "fair" or that someone "owes them" for simply being born. They are the most bitter and angry people I've ever seen.

Sorry to pop your bubble BR, but I'm not the person who lives with strange lies and weird inconsistencies in order to make myself feel better or sound politically correct, something you never would have done in the past.

I'm not the one who claims to hate money, but then send my kids to school sick so I can go work for it. I'm not the one who says, let's pull our bases but give them our business for example. I'm not the one telling kids to starve so that the Grandpa who gambled and drank away his non-retirement can now retire and not work.

You can call that bitter if you want, but the reality is that it is backward from nature. I've never talked about denying a child. I've spoken of adults making adult choices. Finally knowing we are all people of limited means, time, effort, energies, etc. is just being smart and practical with regard to solving problems. Platitudes like If you must invoke some deity, let it be instead to bless each and every one of us who are fortunate enough to live on this tiny little ball we call Earth. don't feed a child. It doesn't raise the wages of their parents. It doesn't do anything other than make you feel good.

We know this so well precisely BECAUSE of what our friends in Europe have tried. They have every social benefit that we supposed barbarian Americans have not become enlightened enough to provide and they are still hated, still bombed, still attacked. They may even still be "liked" or "respected" throughout the world. However it doesn't make a difference. Platitudes and giving someone something for nothing never does.

So call me "uncompassionate" and make sure you spit it out like a slur. Note that I am mean, angry, whatever other tone you care to imagine. Your platitudes and the sentiments expressed behind them has not stopped the bombs or the bombers.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #75 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by screener View Post

What a sad, angry, pathetic person you are.
You are a person aren't you?

Without a bit of irony. At all.
"Stand Up for Chuck"
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"Stand Up for Chuck"
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post #76 of 132

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #77 of 132
I'm off to vacation. Trumpet, you are in dire need of a Care Bear Stare.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #78 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post


So call me "uncompassionate" and make sure you spit it out like a slur.
Nick

That Kiva.org thing is making a difference- a neat idea that gets around bureaucracy and middle-men and directly to those that need help. You heartless capitalist bastard... helping people learn to fish rather than handing them fish so that they have to return to you to survive forever. Haven't you learned anything about creating dependency and eternal indebted constituencies?
"Stand Up for Chuck"
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"Stand Up for Chuck"
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post #79 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jubelum View Post

That Kiva.org thing is making a difference- a neat idea that gets around bureaucracy and middle-men and directly to those that need help. You heartless capitalist bastard... helping people learn to fish rather than handing them fish so that they have to return to you to survive forever. Haven't you learned anything about creating dependency and eternal indebted constituencies?

They are business loans, so that people can sell their fish, not learn how to fish
Why spin a good idea into one that it isn't?

Still, the let them rot and die comment shows what a "compassionate" turd trumptman is.
post #80 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by screener View Post

Still, the let them rot and die comment shows what a "compassionate" turd trumptman is.

I think that's out of order actually. He's ok - he takes a lot of crap and maybe gets hacked off. Happens to us all, seems to be the rules of the game here that it always ends up getting personal...your post is a classic example of it actually.

I don't share the views of Trump and SDW or Jubeium even but one thing's for sure, they take a lot of crap and - imo - handle it admirably.

I find it curious that the posters whose views I most oppose are actually the ones who handle the crap thrown at them the best most times and as such I would say that the three I named above (as well as a few others on 'the Right') are among the posters I most respect here - far more than the vast majority of 'liberals' who in the main are the more juvenile, uniformed and the first to resort to personal attacks.

Not all of them certainly but a significant number. It's also a better bet to actually have a real debate with the wongers here than with the 'lefties' - seems that way to me anyway so maybe we should lay off the ad homs and see how things appear then....just an idea....
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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