Bush Commutes Libby's Sentence - Page 2

Perhaps Fitzgerald should call Libby back to answer some more questions, and make it clear that his new investigation could easily stretch into, oh, say early 2009.

Fitzgerald knew early on that it was Armitage that leaked to Novak. Was Armitage charged with a crime? Why was there even a trial?

I don't understand why he wasn't. From what I've heard, it seems like he was the initial leak.

Now it looks like Libby may not have to serve his probation.

Because there was no crime. What he did didn't fit the definition of a crime according to the laws.

Bush made the right choice... NOT!

Bush appointed the judge who made the ruling, then over-ruled his ruling. Also, there was a recent decision to get tough on crime. Blah blah blah. Tough on nothing.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070704/...R5itHI4QIGw_IE

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070704/...sMmzBMagTIU6Yv

I'm not always up on watching Olbermann because I sometimes think he sits a little too high on his horse, but last nights commentary was pretty good...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHcRQmKEZiA

You know, let's assume we take Bush's statement to mean he overruled the federal judge. So? He can't overrule a judge he appointed? Where is that written?

You know, as an aside, I want to point out how hysterical I think the...well, hysteria is over this issue.

Liberals are positively beside themselves over this whole thing. Jesse Jackson Jr. called for Articles of Impeachment to be drawn up.

http://www.wqad.com/Global/story.asp?S=6742332&nav=1sW7

And this:

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Decis...3341913&page=1


Hearings?

Really...I love it. Clinton supporters (either Bill or HRC) going batshit crazy over pardons and commutations.

That's quite a story, but the notion that people "used to be pardoned for good reasons is total horse shit. That's nothing but a kind of nostalgia.

As for Libby, I fail to see why you'd attack him on grounds other than the perjury. Are there other specific reasons you think the guy is a crook?

It wasn't a crime. And PJF knew it...but went forward anyway. That's the entire point. Libby lied and should have been punished, but how interesting that our liberal friends just totally *ignore* this context.


Bush "overruled" the jury, if you must use that term. Not the judge...unless you're speaking of the decision not to delay the beginning of his jail term.

Sadly, SDW, you (typically) did not read the posts I linked to or you would have read this quote from the Great Leader:

"I felt like the jury verdict ought to stand, and I felt like some of the punishments that the judge determined were adequate should stand," Bush said after visiting wounded soldiers at the Walter Reed Army Medical Center. "But I felt like the 30-month sentencing was severe."


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070704/...R5itHI4QIGw_IE

So, either Bush doesn't understand the legal system or...

Interesting how Bush claims in his statement that he expected full cooperation with the Libby investigation, but now he is claiming executive privilege in a congressional investigation. Hypocrite.

Read the White House papers.

Not really. The congress isn't a law enforcement arm. What if Bush wanted to investigate Congress? Should Congress hand the key over to Rove?

Armitage. So there.

It's obvious what happened here, VP Richard B. "Dick" Cheney committed treason by exposing an american CIA spy that had different a different political opinion than his own. That act endangered the life of a dedicated american for no other reason than political revenge. His former chief of staff, Lewis "Scooter" Libby, protected him by making false statements, obstructing justice, and committing perjury in the CIA leak grand jury investigation. Then the presidents pardon's Libby to keep him quiet. Eliminating any motivation for him to come clean. I hope the social studies teachers of this nation explain how un-American this administration has become since 911.

We need to be far more careful whom we elect for office.

As long as you're cool with a Democratic President doing the same thing.

From the hysterical ultra-conservative Washingtontimes.com

Which is actually WORSE than if it had been the judge. Because he subverted "The People" as Southside like's to refer to them.

if congress was spying on the American people without warrants, if they were illegally torturing "enemy combatants", if they outted a covert CIA operative...then yes. They should hand the key over to the White House legal counsel and the justice department.

But they didn't do any of that. The White House did!

Imagine if this happened on Gore's watch. Or Kerry's. Imagine the HYSTERIA the GOP would've stirred up.

I think Gore would've been fully impeached right now. And everyone on this forum knows it.

Whatever.

Just rhetorical speculation. Nothing more.

On the subject of how politics influences the law here's how the current supreme court works.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/06/...urt/index.html


"Supreme Court rulings reflect Bush's stamp "

Yeah you may be right. If Gore had won there wouldn't have been the Iraq war and maybe even 911. Hence the right wouldn't have been able to gather so much power.

Maybe Gore would have paid closer attention to those reports of Al-Qaeda training men to use airplanes as wepons.

Yeah, because Bin Laden never attacked US interests when the Dems were in power.


What would he have done, asked them to use non-polluting electric trains instead?

The fact that there was info out there prior to 911 asks a big question about why Bush didn't take precautions ( instead of constantly being on vacation ). The whole affair was handled poorly. Gore is a more intelligent man than Bush ( and that's an established fact ) so it makes you wonder what he would have done.

http://www.rasmusen.org/x/archives/000268.html

Also he wouldn't have attacked Iraq. Saddam didn't insult his daddy.

Agreed. But the info was out there for years. The Republicans could similarly ask why Clinton and Gore didn't take precautions (instead of having pizza parties and sleepovers in the White House.)

Throwing around blame for the WTC attacks is a useless sport. You are simply derailing a thread on a controversial presidential pardon with empty 9-11 sloganeering.

No I was responding to a statement by SDW and later your insightful comment about electric trains. What's the matter Frank? Don't like the possiblity that I might be right? Well neither do I.

Besides why would I try to derail a thread that puts yet another black mark on Bush?

And Frank look at the date of the report.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washing...eda-memo_x.htm

I love how these wingnuts try to score political points without checking a single friggin' fact. Simply amazing.

Nice to see admit defeat.

Yeah. But at least you know I'm right.

"The so-called presidential daily briefing, or PDB, delivered to Bush on Aug. 6, 2001 a month before the Sept. 11 attacks said there were various reports that Osama bin Laden had wanted to strike inside the United States as early as 1997..."

Shall we post the primary source on this?

The Memo in full:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washing...cutive/pdb.pdf

Frank the important part since this was just info being collected before : " delivered to Bush on Aug. 6, 2001 " The 1997 date was part of the 2001 report.

Also

" The same month as that briefing of Bush, U.S. intelligence officials received two uncorroborated reports suggesting terrorists might use airplanes, including one that suggested al-Qaeda operatives were considering flying a plane into a U.S. embassy, current and former government officials said. "

Also

"The sources said the briefing memo did not provide the exact date of that intelligence but made clear it was in the 2001 time frame, and that FBI and other agencies were investigating it. The information had been provided to intelligence and law enforcement agencies well before Bush's briefing, the sources said. "


And

" The sources said the presidential memo included a series of bullet items that brought Bush through a history of mostly uncorroborated intelligence that cited al-Qaeda's interest in hijacking planes to win the release of Islamic extremists who had been arrested in 1998 and 1999 as well as the travelings of suspected al-Qaeda operatives, include some U.S. citizens, in and out of the United States. It suggested al-Qaeda might have a support system in place on U.S. soil, the sources said. "


And there is this part

"Rice also testified that she did not recall seeing any warnings before Sept. 11 that a plane might be used a terrorist weapon, though it was possible others in the White House did. "

And why do you think he never successfully conducted those attacks? Would it be because Clinton and Clarke were obsessed with terrorism happening within the US because of the 1993 bombing? Hmm?

I mean, since we're making up shit, let's make up alternate scenarios that make Clinton look like a hero. He did subvert EVERY terrorist plot during the Millennium. But you guys HATE to give Clinton credit for anything so those "good" things don't really count in your mind, do they?

I'm sure it's far more fun repeating Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, and Mike Savage talking points.

Kinda inconvenient to blame everything on Clinton when they give a big whopping pass to Condi Rice, isn't it?

He's almost tough on borders, I mean he has what 300 ft now built.

Wasn't part of the wall built INSIDE Mexico? Are we now invading them, too? Or can Amerika, the greatest nation on earth, not even be bothered to correctly determine where it's border actually is? Or are they incapable at the moment because all of the necessary equipment is in Iraq? \

Bush is pushing (at least until a few days ago) a new crime bill that would allow judges to pass stricter sentences, not more lenient ones. When a judge then passes a sentence that is in line with heretofore sentences, GW determines it to be too harsh and commutes it. If Libby had not been connected with the GW WH and had, for example, been Pelosi's advisor , I don't think there would have been a commutation, but rather a comment regarding the leniency of the sentence.

Now that this thread has been derailed completely, isn't it interesting how Libby was set up to take the fall and get stung by a different charge so as to derail the investigation into the leaking of a CIA agent's identity, which is a serious crime?

Clinton tackled welfare reform and did a number of other good things while in office. It's too bad he derailed his big chance to help the world with a stunning moral failure than rendered his second term essentially meaningless. And in the U.S., you only get two chances at the big job.

I understand that in your deluded world, all who disagree with you have been brainwashed by the vast right wing conspiracy.

But I should point out that here in the real world, I have never listened to a complete Limbaugh radio program, and have never seen and would not be able to recognize the other two if I saw them on the street.