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Global warming !!!! Global warming !!!!

post #1 of 120
Thread Starter 
Global Warming !!!!!

I just need the Howard Dean yell !!!

Take a look at the latest blunder:

"Live Earth's half empty stadiums and lackluster TV viewing figures were preceded by another embarrassment after one of the propaganda bandwagon's kingpins and a top global warming advocate responded to a question about solar-system wide climate change by claiming that Jupiter, Mars and Saturn were closer to the sun than Earth.

David Mayer de Rothschild is the youngest child (born 1978) of Sir Evelyn de Rothschild, of the British wing of the Rothschild banking family.

Rothschild's recent book, 77 Essential Skills to Stop Climate Changes, calls for ordinary people to limit outward behavior and even work at home and was used as part of the PR blitz to accompany the Live Earth project. Appearing on The Alex Jones Show this past Friday, Rothschild reacted to a point about massive climate change at every point of the solar system and its relation to natural sun cycles by claiming Mars, Saturn and Jupiter were closer to the sun than Earth!

Here's a brief transcript of the exchange.

ALEX JONES: "The polar icecaps of Mars are receding at several miles a year, much faster than ours and that the moons of Saturn and Jupiter are melting, in fact several of their moons were ice and are now liquid seas - how are SUV's causing that David Rothschild?

ROTHSCHILD: "Because those planets are closer to the sun, my friend."

ALEX JONES: "No, Jupiter and Saturn are not closer to the sun and neither is Mars."

Rothschild then quickly changes the subject and when the point is raised again later in the show, he makes no effort to correct himself."


http://www.infowars.com/articles/sci...than_earth.htm

You gotta love it,, LISTEN to the audio clip : http://prisonplanet.com/audio/090707clip.mp3

Wow.... just amazing...



Your thoughts?

Fellows
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
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May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
post #2 of 120
Quote:
One adult American in five thinks the Sun revolves around the Earth, an idea science had abandoned by the 17th century.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/30/sc...b6302b&ei=5070

A lot of stupid people out there.
post #3 of 120
I read that three times and I still don't understand the point of this thread.
post #4 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fellowship View Post

Global Warming !!!!!



Your thoughts?

Fellows

Judging from that map...we're screwed. But honestly, throwing half-assed celebrities and rock stars hasn't done a damn bit of good...

Africans to Bono: 'For God's sake please stop!'

Quote:
Andrew Mwenda, an outspoken Ugandan journalist who was jailed last year for criticizing President Museveni, lambasted the Western world's "international cocktail of good intentions" for robbing Africa of its future. After all, what country has ever gotten rich from aid? What Africa needs is investment.

Near the front of the darkened auditorium a white man with orange sunglasses stood to object. It was Bono! The audience (myself included), exuberant in the presence of celebrity, craned their necks to catch a glimpse. Aid saved Ireland from the potato famine, Bono declared.

...Bono, take your orange sunglasses off and see the real world...

Quote:
Of the 47 countries that make up sub-Saharan Africa, only five-Sudan, Chad, Uganda, the Democratic Republic of the Congo, and Somalia-are home to active conflicts. Last year, Africa saw its highest growth in GDP in two decades. Sixteen African countries have favorable sovereign credit ratings. Botswana's is higher than Japan, yet it still struggles to attract investment.

But I veer off topic, sorry.

Quote:
David Mayer de Rothschild is the youngest child (born 1978) of Sir Evelyn de Rothschild, of the British wing of the Rothschild banking family.



You know, I don't know who's more bat-shit crazy...Bono or Rothschild...but I know they are rich. Eat the rich. All I got...
post #5 of 120
I'm not quite sure what you are trying to prove here fellowship other than that this guy is an idiot.

If an idiot holds a belief to be true, that does not necessarily make the belief untrue. Morons can be right and intelligent folks can be wrong despite themselves.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #6 of 120
First global warming is supposed to be about science, not the beliefs of idiots.

That said, if people desire true action in this area, the people publishing tips, the people leading the cause have to be intelligent and show leadership. Instead what they do is lack basic knowledge and demonstrate profound hypocrisy.

Al Gore's son is picked up for drug charges and I don't need to condemn that. What I do need to condemn is the fact that he was picked up by the Gore daughter in the family Maserati which gets worse gas mileage than a Hummer.

Here is the author's book which is the OFFICIAL companion book to go with the concert and cause.

The book notes that we should practive subsizing instead of SUPESIZING. The representative McMansion home looks much like the Gore home.

Idiots and intellectuals can believe that the planet is getting warmer. However the causes, actions and morals drawn from that are not the same. The people pointing the fingers, claiming the support the cause, claiming to be moral examples, instead appear to be robber barons using good intentions as their concealed weapon to steal from us of our rights and money.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply
post #7 of 120


Solar irradiation has been flatlined since ~1950, on an annual basis the variability is less than 0.1% (1 part in 1,360 parts).
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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post #8 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

First global warming is supposed to be about science, not the beliefs of idiots.

That said, if people desire true action in this area, the people publishing tips, the people leading the cause have to be intelligent and show leadership. Instead what they do is lack basic knowledge and demonstrate profound hypocrisy.

Al Gore's son is picked up for drug charges and I don't need to condemn that. What I do need to condemn is the fact that he was picked up by the Gore daughter in the family Maserati which gets worse gas mileage than a Hummer.

Here is the author's book which is the OFFICIAL companion book to go with the concert and cause.

The book notes that we should practive subsizing instead of SUPESIZING. The representative McMansion home looks much like the Gore home.

Idiots and intellectuals can believe that the planet is getting warmer. However the causes, actions and morals drawn from that are not the same. The people pointing the fingers, claiming the support the cause, claiming to be moral examples, instead appear to be robber barons using good intentions as their concealed weapon to steal from us of our rights and money.

Nick

How would this work?

Kill all the richest people, say the top 1%, give all their wealth to the poorest 10% of people in the world. Those poorest 10% will increase their carbon footprints by 10 to 50 times their current average.

Oops, I just created a scenario where carbon emissions increase at a greater rate then the current BAU!

Back to the AGW drawing board I go. \
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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post #9 of 120
I'm so tired of the "oh, he's hypocritical so I'll just use that as an excuse to ignore or denigrate the cause regardless if the cause is worthy or if the advice of the hypocrite is sound despite his own noncompliance" attitude.

Al Gore has a mansion. Does that somehow negate the benefits of switching to LEDs? Al Gore's kid has a Mazarati. Does that somehow negate the benefits of hybrid vehicles?

No and no. This is just more fucking pointless fruitless distraction.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #10 of 120
I'm back from the AGW drawing board.

OK, so my last AGW plan wasn't well thought out.

So first off we would need a bunch of these;



Miniature bottled versions called Dalek Final Solution Shampoo (DFSS).

Next, after realizing that current population growth exceeds 1% on an annual basis;

world population



And noting where the largest increases will occur (hint, hint, hint Asia), we have cheap Asian labor manufacture vast quantities of DFSS via a vast multinational AmeriKKKan conglomerate, you know who >> Wal-Mart, the industrialized western world than places such high tariffs on DFSS that the Asians (and other 3rd world nations) are forced to use DFSS exclusively. The 3rd world dies so that the western world can continue to live in their own festering opulence.

Problem solved!
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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post #11 of 120
The Rothschilds are part of the cabal that runs the planet. Intelligence not required when you are capable of buying entire nations and the leadership of the rest you cannot afford. Those not familiar with the Rothschilds and Rockefellers need to take a few minutes and understand the power that these people wield over our planet... every single person.
"Stand Up for Chuck"
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"Stand Up for Chuck"
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post #12 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

I'm so tired of the "oh, he's hypocritical so I'll just use that as an excuse to ignore or denigrate the cause regardless if the cause is worthy or if the advice of the hypocrite is sound despite his own noncompliance" attitude.

Al Gore has a mansion. Does that somehow negate the benefits of switching to LEDs? Al Gore's kid has a Mazarati. Does that somehow negate the benefits of hybrid vehicles?

No and no. This is just more fucking pointless fruitless distraction.

No, that is just fucking hypocritical behavior.

Gore's been screaming about Global Warming (seems like) forever.

HE SHOULD BE LEADING THE WAY, DRIVING TO HIS DESTINATIONS IN ONE OF THOSE TWO-MOTOR-CYCLES-WELDED-TOGETHER-MOPED-HYBRID CONTRAPTIONS!

A FUCKING MAZARATI?!!! I don't begrudge the Gore family a Mazarati. I begrudge it, though, if they tell me that I should drive a moped-hybrid 'automobile'. Fuck him and all the enviro-communists.

V/R,

Aries 1B
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post #13 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jubelum View Post

The Rothschilds are part of the cabal that runs the planet. Intelligence not required when you are capable of buying entire nations and the leadership of the rest you cannot afford. Those not familiar with the Rothschilds and Rockefellers need to take a few minutes and understand the power that these people wield over our planet... every single person.

If the astonomy-knowledge-challenged-dunderhead mentioned in this thread's opening post is running the world, then I sure hope 'his people' keep him away from The Big Red Button.

V/R,
Aries 1B
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post #14 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

I'm not quite sure what you are trying to prove here fellowship other than that this guy is an idiot.

If an idiot holds a belief to be true, that does not necessarily make the belief untrue. Morons can be right and intelligent folks can be wrong despite themselves.

Nope. Can't be like you say. See nearly every thread about George Bush and WMDs and Iraq and Iran and everything else that George Bush has done everyday in his entire life.

V/R,

Aries 1B
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"I pictured myself sitting in the shade of a leafy tree in a public park, a stylus in hand, a shiny Apple Tablet computer in my lap, and a pouty Jennifer Connelly stirring a pitcher of gimlets a...
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post #15 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShawnJ View Post

I read that three times and I still don't understand the point of this thread.

Well you don't have to play, then.

S'long....

V/R,
Aries 1B
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"I pictured myself sitting in the shade of a leafy tree in a public park, a stylus in hand, a shiny Apple Tablet computer in my lap, and a pouty Jennifer Connelly stirring a pitcher of gimlets a...
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post #16 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aries 1B View Post

If the astonomy-knowledge-challenged-dunderhead mentioned in this thread's opening post is running the world, then I sure hope 'his people' keep him away from The Big Red Button.

V/R,
Aries 1B

Who needs a "big red button" when you control the policy for the "little green pieces of paper"
"Stand Up for Chuck"
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"Stand Up for Chuck"
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post #17 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aries 1B View Post

No, that is just fucking hypocritical behavior.

Gore's been screaming about Global Warming (seems like) forever.

HE SHOULD BE LEADING THE WAY, DRIVING TO HIS DESTINATIONS IN ONE OF THOSE TWO-MOTOR-CYCLES-WELDED-TOGETHER-MOPED-HYBRID CONTRAPTIONS!

A FUCKING MAZARATI?!!! I don't begrudge the Gore family a Mazarati. I begrudge it, though, if they tell me that I should drive a moped-hybrid 'automobile'. Fuck him and all the enviro-communists.

V/R,

Aries 1B

Again, explain to me how Gore's behavior invalidates the idea of reducing carbon emissions.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #18 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aries 1B View Post

Nope. Can't be like you say. See nearly every thread about George Bush and WMDs and Iraq and Iran and everything else that George Bush has done everyday in his entire life.

V/R,

Aries 1B

Idiots also can be wrong in the case of GWB (or yourself in this case).

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #19 of 120
Quote:
I begrudge it, though, if they tell me that I should drive a moped-hybrid 'automobile'. Fuck him and all the enviro-communists.

Has Gore told you that you should drive a moped-hybrid 'automobile'?
proud resident of a failed state
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proud resident of a failed state
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post #20 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by @_@ Artman View Post

Africans to Bono: 'For God's sake please stop!'

Not a bad article. As I just found out, I know some people at "The American." The mag is new, and they'll be happy to hear that it got linked.
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post #21 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

How would this work?

Kill all the richest people, say the top 1%, give all their wealth to the poorest 10% of people in the world. Those poorest 10% will increase their carbon footprints by 10 to 50 times their current average.

Oops, I just created a scenario where carbon emissions increase at a greater rate then the current BAU!

Back to the AGW drawing board I go. \

Think of it more like a tax situation. Since the carbon footprint of the rich is usually 100+ times the size of the average person, you demand they get their own footprint down considerably before you even think of making demands on those who are barely getting by.

Would you ever demand those eating rice and bean, or potatoes eat less so the man having steak every meal can eat as he wishes? Especially if the man eating steak is asking for people to eat less because of a worldwide food shortage?

If you need to do with less, you make the demands first of those who have 100 times more. Even if the government doesn't demand it, they should be leadership by example. Bill Gates, Warren Buffet and Ted Turner still are being financially charitable even though the government hasn't taxed away their money to help the poor for example. They let their own actions reflect what they believe is right.

I've said all along that Gore's actions also reflect what he believes is right. They reflect the fact that he is profiting for himself at the expense of others.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Again, explain to me how Gore's behavior invalidates the idea of reducing carbon emissions.

Because there is lots of argument about "carbon emissions" and whether we ought not focus more on true pollutants. There is also as was linked a discussion about whether "good intentions" are intentionally impoverishing people.

If the government passes a law that keeps you impoverished, don't you believe the rich should have to demonstrate the outcomes of the very law they are lobbying for first? Al Gore wants a law passed that reduces the carbon footprint of the nation by 90%. Shouldn't he be willing to show how we will end up living first?

If he won't then why pass the law? Oh because he knows he will simply buy carbon "indulgences" to offset his own heated pool and lifestyle.

There are plenty of good intentions that have also been shams a well.

Quote:
I'm so tired of the "oh, he's hypocritical so I'll just use that as an excuse to ignore or denigrate the cause regardless if the cause is worthy or if the advice of the hypocrite is sound despite his own noncompliance" attitude.

Al Gore has a mansion. Does that somehow negate the benefits of switching to LEDs? Al Gore's kid has a Mazarati. Does that somehow negate the benefits of hybrid vehicles?

No and no. This is just more fucking pointless fruitless distraction.

I'll tell you what. I'll simply take my cues from Gore. I'll mouth the supposedly right words and then live as I wish.

Also if you have a source for marketable and usable LED lights, post it because I've been wanting them for years. Us camping types are already used to conserving. I'd be more than happy to switch my whole RV over to LED lighting for dry camping. Last I checked they were still over $30 per bulb though.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #22 of 120
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post


Idiots and intellectuals can believe that the planet is getting warmer. However the causes, actions and morals drawn from that are not the same. The people pointing the fingers, claiming the support the cause, claiming to be moral examples, instead appear to be robber barons using good intentions as their concealed weapon to steal from us of our rights and money.

Nick


Well said.
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
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May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
post #23 of 120
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShawnJ View Post

I read that three times and I still don't understand the point of this thread.


Some homework for you if you want to better understand this thread:

Research and study David Mayer de Rothschild and get to know his family background.

Research and study other areas in the solar system where climate change has happened and is happening.

- ask yourself what is causing this climate change.
- after this ask yourself where the SUV's and "bad" light bulbs are causing this climate change on these
non Earth planets / moons.

Then ask yourself.... could it be that non human-related causes could actually cause climate change?

Then ask yourself: - What motivates the rich and powerful to want to tax people based on their "carbon
footprint".

Start there and we can go from there.

Fellows
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
post #24 of 120
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

I'm not quite sure what you are trying to prove here fellowship other than that this guy is an idiot.

Look at non Earth bodies "other planets and moons" and study the climate changes taking place.

Then ask yourself..... "If I give up my light bulbs, buy a hybrid and pay higher taxes / higher energy prices will I stop or slow the climate change taking place"?

Then think about what keeps the rulers of the world in power....

ENERGY.

Be it oil, natural gas, coal, nuclear what have you. Consider a world where the political leaders mandate conservation via changes in light bulbs used etc. and cars driven.

Once they get you downsized into expensive replacements they can then profit when energy prices creep upwards.

If gas is $3.50 a gal now it can now go to $7.00 per gal. if you get twice as many miles per gal on your car.

If your home has energy conserving features including low wattage bulbs the cost per kw hour charged can go from around 14 cents to ohhh say 28 cents.

And just think if you did not downsize what this brave new world will cost you in terms of energy usage costs. It will force you into changing or going broke.

Just a thought.

So while I am not against the idea of downsizing, reducing carbon consumption etc. I am very cautious of those wanting to control and tax me.

When they (Al Gore, Rothschild and company) try to be "cool" and hip while doing it it raises even more flags.

When they can't get their facts straight like the example in my opening post it raises further flags.

Fellows
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
post #25 of 120
I have to return Fellowship's well said. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

That was awesome.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #26 of 120
Let's put aside the fact that the earth is getting warmer for just one second.

What I hear being argued in this thread is that we shouldn't seek means to reduce our carbon footprint because their are idiots who think we should. Well there are idiots who think we shouldn't as well.

We should voluntarily reduce our carbon footprint for the following obvious reason:

Fossil Fuels are being consumed at a rate greater than they are being formed:
This is a problem not only for the power consumption issue the chuckleheads of this thread are arguing about but also the fact that NEARLY EVERY pharmaceutical and NEARLY EVERY plastic we use builds from petroleum extracts. The fact that we don't have a replacement for plastics and pharmaceuticals derived from petroleum should give you pause in your illogical pursuit of lets burn it all.

Now let's get back to the fact that other planets are warming.

This tells us nothing about the contribution of human's to THIS planet's warming. Every planet that is getting hotter has significant levels of greenhouse gases in their atmosphere. Mars has CO2 ice caps which are subliming -- giving us a 1:1 correlation with our own planetary body in terms of HUMAN produced CO2. The whole idea that human's are the sole cause of warming is one created by those who don't believe it is occurring AT ALL, which is as idiotic as a suggestion could be.

Look, people will make money on the actions of human population in any direction. The oil companies DON'T CARE if you reduce your carbon footprint, you should anyway. Al Gore derives no more power from you changing that incandescent light bulb to a fluorescent one, it will save you money in the long term regardless of whether the costs of electricity go up or down. So too will buying a fuel efficient car. It isn't as if they selectively price consumables for people who own certain types of apparatuses.



This thread is worthless.
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
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"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
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post #27 of 120
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hardeeharhar View Post


This thread is worthless.

Then for God's sake please stay out of it.

Fellows
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
post #28 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by hardeeharhar View Post

Let's put aside the fact that the earth is getting warmer for just one second.

What I hear being argued in this thread is that we shouldn't seek means to reduce our carbon footprint because their are idiots who think we should. Well there are idiots who think we shouldn't as well.

We should voluntarily reduce our carbon footprint for the following obvious reason:

Fossil Fuels are being consumed at a rate greater than they are being formed:
This is a problem not only for the power consumption issue the chuckleheads of this thread are arguing about but also the fact that NEARLY EVERY pharmaceutical and NEARLY EVERY plastic we use builds from petroleum extracts. The fact that we don't have a replacement for plastics and pharmaceuticals derived from petroleum should give you pause in your illogical pursuit of lets burn it all.

Now let's get back to the fact that other planets are warming.

This tells us nothing about the contribution of human's to THIS planet's warming. Every planet that is getting hotter has significant levels of greenhouse gases in their atmosphere. Mars has CO2 ice caps which are subliming -- giving us a 1:1 correlation with our own planetary body in terms of HUMAN produced CO2. The whole idea that human's are the sole cause of warming is one created by those who don't believe it is occurring AT ALL, which is as idiotic as a suggestion could be.

Look, people will make money on the actions of human population in any direction. The oil companies DON'T CARE if you reduce your carbon footprint, you should anyway. Al Gore derives no more power from you changing that incandescent light bulb to a fluorescent one, it will save you money in the long term regardless of whether the costs of electricity go up or down. So too will buying a fuel efficient car. It isn't as if they selectively price consumables for people who own certain types of apparatuses.



This thread is worthless.



Excellent post. I am so tired of the inadequacies of the advocates being used to undermine the cause. Yesterday a neighbor explained to me that "Global Warming was about finished" because of poor TV ratings for the concerts. Huh? Where are the thinking people?
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post #29 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by hardeeharhar View Post

Let's put aside the fact that the earth is getting warmer for just one second.

Why, there are also those who are contending that it is at the beginning of a cooling cycle and that carbon emissions might be the only thing to make it less severe.

Quote:
What I hear being argued in this thread is that we shouldn't seek means to reduce our carbon footprint because their are idiots who think we should. Well there are idiots who think we shouldn't as well.

Yes, but unlike the first set of idiots, their actions and reasoning are at least consistent with each other. Additionally they are not seeking to tax me, limit me, or anything else to me.

So sure, the caricatured cigar chomping, big Hummer driving, McMansion owning idiot does exist. However people will call his actions idiotic. In the case of an Al Gore, they EXCUSE and RATIONALIZE away his actions.

Quote:
Fossil Fuels are being consumed at a rate greater than they are being formed:
This is a problem not only for the power consumption issue the chuckleheads of this thread are arguing about but also the fact that NEARLY EVERY pharmaceutical and NEARLY EVERY plastic we use builds from petroleum extracts. The fact that we don't have a replacement for plastics and pharmaceuticals derived from petroleum should give you pause in your illogical pursuit of lets burn it all.

Human advancement has called disproportionately on certain resources that are then conserved or even discarded as energy sources later as the advancement has occurred. We have in the past, used wood as a source of energy. We now have more forest land than a century ago in part because of oil, but also because of the progress wood enabled us to make until something better was found.

Finally the belief that if one does not support global warming, then they don't support conservation of any kind is yours alone. Conservation and management of our resources was occurring before the "planet had a fever" and can continue even if it doesn't. We don't have to be taxed or give up our rights in order to meet the good planetary conservationist checklist of an Al Gore. I can note that he doesn't meet his own solutions while still pushing my own solutions. This doesn't mean, as you suggest that we "burn it all" or don't care to advocate for cleaner and more efficient energy use.

So note that I can declare Al Gore a hypocrite, declare global warming a lie, and still change my lightbulbs, improve my mpg's, and install energy efficient appliances, etc.

Quote:
Now let's get back to the fact that other planets are warming.

Let's mention that ALL the other planets are warming, and not just Mars.

Quote:
Look, people will make money on the actions of human population in any direction. The oil companies DON'T CARE if you reduce your carbon footprint, you should anyway. Al Gore derives no more power from you changing that incandescent light bulb to a fluorescent one, it will save you money in the long term regardless of whether the costs of electricity go up or down. So too will buying a fuel efficient car. It isn't as if they selectively price consumables for people who own certain types of apparatuses.

What Al Gore seems to get is a "Get out of your own carbon footprint requirements" free card. This is important to note because he is demanding and proposing legislation will others will not get such treatment for their own carbon use. He is demanding that everyone become carbon neutral while not even being willing to demonstrate himself that this can be done.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #30 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fellowship View Post

If gas is $3.50 a gal now it can now go to $7.00 per gal. if you get twice as many miles per gal on your car.

If your home has energy conserving features including low wattage bulbs the cost per kw hour charged can go from around 14 cents to ohhh say 28 cents.

Fellows

Please explain how this would work? Overnight?

How do all the people on Planet Earth acquire new cars and new homes overnight?

What happens to all the old cars and homes?

Where does all the money come from to buy new products on the substantial investments to make existing homes twice as energy efficient?

And how does a car already getting 30+ MPG get replaced by a 60+ MPG car overnight?

I guess there's no such thing like a "free market" and supply and demand theory if the fossil fuel club can just arbitrarily double their fuel prices overnight!

AJ and his "Prison Planet" website, that's all I need to know about lameness of his take on the GW subject matter!

I guess I'll just move to Mars since I hear it's "Freedom Planet" and getting warmer by the second!

Quote:
Attention all planets of the solar federation
Attention all planets of the solar federation
Attention all planets of the solar federation
We have assumed control.
We have assumed control.
We have assumed control.

AJ, et. al. need to go back to reading Ayn Rand NOVELS, and leave the rest of the sane people on this planet alone!
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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post #31 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fellowship View Post

Look at non Earth bodies "other planets and moons" and study the climate changes taking place.

Then ask yourself..... "If I give up my light bulbs, buy a hybrid and pay higher taxes / higher energy prices will I stop or slow the climate change taking place"?

There can exist more than one concurrent cause of a given phenomena. I think what ever caused those moons and planets to warm is probably contributing to our earthen warming. I also think that cow farts are contributing to earth warming, and i don't think Europa has that same issue. Saturn, being tremendously further from the Sun, will probably freeze and warm during its super-long seasons, as it flies along its orbit; any thinking person can see that would be a more considerable issue for the further bodies. None of this has any relation to the strength or weakness of human caused global warming.
post #32 of 120
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

So note that I can declare Al Gore a hypocrite, declare global warming a lie, and still change my lightbulbs, improve my mpg's, and install energy efficient appliances, etc.


Nick

Ohh no you can't Nick.... Ohhh no you can't.....

You just can't can't... cant't... can't...

Fellows
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
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May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
post #33 of 120
OMG OMG!! Shock!! Some outer planets (pluto) are warming!!

Lets not forget that their orbits are elliptical and take hundreds of years, therefore their warming periods are going to be in the order of tens to nearly a hundred Earth Years, likewise their cooling.

And we have scientific data that we can draw conclusions from about their long term climates that goes back...hmmm...less than a single 'season' of their orbit from the present day, OMG OMG some planets are warming!!!! No shit Batman.

OMG OMG Mars is warming.

Mars has no large moon to stabilize its orbit like the Earth, therefore it 'wobbles' in its orbit much more frequently than the Earth. The Earth wobbles, known as the Milankovitch cycles and occur on time scales of between 20,000 and 100,000 years which do correspond to global warming or cooling, but scientists know that already.

Quote:
from National Geographic
In 2005 data from NASA's Mars Global Surveyor and Odyssey missions revealed that the carbon dioxide "ice caps" near Mars's south pole had been diminishing for three summers in a row.

OMG!!! three summers in a row!!! therefore Global warming on Earth is not happening!!!

Lets completely forget that we dont know the history of the climate trends on Mars, nor the fact that recent dust storms across the planet have exposed many areas of Mars' surface to darker rocks allowing more heat radiation to be absorbed, thus increasing melting of the CO2 ice caps creating a carbon richer atmosphere that holds in this heat.

OMG!!! Some nasty people want to economically enslave the human race and control our minds.

I've no doubt this has always happened and always will. It seems to have happened on a grand scale about, hmmm 2000 years ago, when those nasty people in the Vatican produced a book from the Astrological mythology of the 'SUN' - disguised as a human, except that they took out all the astrological foundation and meaning to hide their roots and told everone that it was all real and we would all go to their fictional hell if we didn't believe them (or fill their coffers). They're still a pain in the arse to this day, and the followers of the human SUN ignorantly proclaim to us today that people want to control our minds and money for their own agenda - ironically when the real problem is - the 'SUN'.

WAKE UP BATMAN! you're on candid camera.
post #34 of 120
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcUK View Post

OMG OMG Mars is warming.

Mars has no large moon to stabilize its orbit like the Earth, therefore it 'wobbles' in its orbit much more frequently than the Earth. The Earth wobbles, known as the Milankovitch cycles and occur on time scales of between 20,000 and 100,000 years which do correspond to global warming or cooling, but scientists know that already.

OMG!!! three summers in a row!!! therefore Global warming on Earth is not happening!!!

Nobody said climate change on Earth is not happening.

climate change has been happening since the begining of time.

Fellows
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
post #35 of 120
great!!! something we didn't already know. Though technically your statement should read, since the beginning of time on earth.

Now make the last leap and recognise that human induced non-natural climate change has been happening since humans started releasing large amounts of Greenhouse Gasses into the atmosphere.

....And yes, some nasty people will try to use this for economic and political advantage
post #36 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

Please explain how this would work? Overnight?

How do all the people on Planet Earth acquire new cars and new homes overnight?

What happens to all the old cars and homes?

Where does all the money come from to buy new products on the substantial investments to make existing homes twice as energy efficient?

perhaps we need to stop wating huge quantities of money and oil blowing the sand-niggers out of their dunes and caves and spend the money on research and development and building an infrastructure for a hydrogen economy. No doubt if the trillions of $ wasted on war had been put to good use, we would have our infrastructure of hydrogen stations installed, our cars would be running on water and our homes powered by solar panels ( I read the development panels are up to about 60% efficiency now, compared to 15% 5 years ago) and then we wouldn't have to sponsor 'terrorist' states by driving the SUV, nor invade their lands to steal the supply for the SUV either.

I meant 'sand-niggers' as an insult to the fuel-lobby right-wing and not as racist comment to the good people of the ME.
post #37 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fellowship View Post

Some homework for you if you want to better understand this thread:

Research and study David Mayer de Rothschild and get to know his family background.

Research and study other areas in the solar system where climate change has happened and is happening.

- ask yourself what is causing this climate change.
- after this ask yourself where the SUV's and "bad" light bulbs are causing this climate change on these
non Earth planets / moons.

Then ask yourself.... could it be that non human-related causes could actually cause climate change?

Then ask yourself: - What motivates the rich and powerful to want to tax people based on their "carbon
footprint".

Start there and we can go from there.

Fellows

  1. The fact that climate change is not entirely human-driven does not negate anything about its human causes.
  2. You set this thread up as presenting a great "blunder" on the scale of something that would bring down global warming theory, like how the Howard Dean "scream" brought down his Presidential candidacy. Yet global warming theory does not depend on the views of "David Rothschild." Global warming theory does not depend on what David Rothschild says, unlike how Howard Dead's candidacy depends in large part of what he says.
  3. Everything else aside, no one is really amused by this "blunder" anyway.
post #38 of 120
Record sale increases for Live8 performers:

1 Pink Floyd - Echoes: The Best of Pink Floyd - 1343%

2 The Who - Then and Now - 863%

3 Annie Lennox - Eurythmics Greatest Hits - 500%

4 Dido - Life For Rent - 412%

5 Razorlight - Up All Night - 335%

6 Robbie Williams - Greatest Hits - 320%

7 Joss Stone - Mind, Body and Soul - 309%

8 Sting - The Very Best of Sting & The Police - 300%

9 Travis - Singles - 268%

10 Madonna - Immaculate Collection - 200%
post #39 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Why, there are also those who are contending that it is at the beginning of a cooling cycle and that carbon emissions might be the only thing to make it less severe.

Yes, perhaps 10-30 K years from now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Human advancement has called disproportionately on certain resources that are then conserved or even discarded as energy sources later as the advancement has occurred. We have in the past, used wood as a source of energy. We now have more forest land than a century ago in part because of oil, but also because of the progress wood enabled us to make until something better was found.

So we are all going to convert over to wood burning transportation systems and housing?

"better" "advancement" Care to put those "terms" into some objectively based quantitative context (hint this is a rhetorical question)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Finally the belief that if one does not support global warming, then they don't support conservation of any kind is yours alone. Conservation and management of our resources was occurring before the "planet had a fever" and can continue even if it doesn't. We don't have to be taxed or give up our rights in order to meet the good planetary conservationist checklist of an Al Gore. I can note that he doesn't meet his own solutions while still pushing my own solutions. This doesn't mean, as you suggest that we "burn it all" or don't care to advocate for cleaner and more efficient energy use.

Have we humans managed or conserved our population growth, our industrial growth, our fossil fuel growth? No, no, and no!

Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Let's mention that ALL the other planets are warming, and not just Mars.

Sources, links, ANYTHING to support this rather bogus claim would do?

When did we know this and how did we know it?

Orbital periods, planet composition?

How much do we know about these bodies wrt what we already know about Earth? The difference is probably several tens of orders of magnitude!

Have we made direct surface temperature measurements over 150+ solar orbital cycles on these bodies from thousands of locations, in their atmosphere, on their surface, in their oceans?

Define how we measure the gas/ice giants surface temperature if they don't have a distinct surface per se?

Quote:
A gas giant (sometimes also known as a Jovian planet after the planet Jupiter) is a large planet that is not primarily composed of rock or other solid matter. There are four gas giants in our Solar System; Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, and Neptune. Uranus and Neptune may be considered a separate subclass of giant planets, 'ice giants', or 'Uranian planets', as they are mostly composed of ice, rock, as well as gases of water, ammonia and methane, unlike the "traditional" gas giants Jupiter or Saturn. However, they share the same qualities of the lack of the solid surface; their differences stem from the fact that their proportion of hydrogen and helium is lower, due to their greater distance from the Sun.

Triton and Pluto you say? With a density of ~2 times water, and their distances from the Sun we know very little about them. Heck, Hubble sees light and dark patches on Pluto, that's about it. Please wake me up when we're able to read the licence plates off those ET GW alien's vehicles!

Mars you say? Given that it's south polar region is now tilted more towards the Sun, D'oh, regional climate change, who could have figured out that one? NASA, ESU, whatever, there is a scientific explination for that one that has nothing to do with GW on Mars!

I can't even believe I'm having this discussion or that it it has any historical observational baseline measurements sufficient in spatial/temporal resolution to even begin to broach the subject matter! \
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Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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post #40 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Why, there are also those who are contending that it is at the beginning of a cooling cycle and that carbon emissions might be the only thing to make it less severe.

Great. Perhaps your point was to contend that since there are unknowns, we shouldn't act as all. I like your style, Nick, apathy until death, sort of the epitome of your generation, no?

Quote:
Yes, but unlike the first set of idiots, their actions and reasoning are at least consistent with each other. Additionally they are not seeking to tax me, limit me, or anything else to me.

Have I demanded a pound of flesh? what fraction of environmentally conscious people have?

Quote:
So sure, the caricatured cigar chomping, big Hummer driving, McMansion owning idiot does exist. However people will call his actions idiotic. In the case of an Al Gore, they EXCUSE and RATIONALIZE away his actions.

I don't care for Al Gore or most of the antics of the popular environmental movement, but that is me and most of the people I know.


Quote:
Human advancement has called disproportionately on certain resources that are then conserved or even discarded as energy sources later as the advancement has occurred. We have in the past, used wood as a source of energy. We now have more forest land than a century ago in part because of oil, but also because of the progress wood enabled us to make until something better was found.

Unlike wood, which regrows at a relatively rapid rate, petroleum isn't renewable.
Quote:
Finally the belief that if one does not support global warming, then they don't support conservation of any kind is yours alone. Conservation and management of our resources was occurring before the "planet had a fever" and can continue even if it doesn't. We don't have to be taxed or give up our rights in order to meet the good planetary conservationist checklist of an Al Gore. I can note that he doesn't meet his own solutions while still pushing my own solutions. This doesn't mean, as you suggest that we "burn it all" or don't care to advocate for cleaner and more efficient energy use.

I never said that. Conservation doesn't have to be about global warming. It shouldn't be.

Quote:
So note that I can declare Al Gore a hypocrite, declare global warming a lie, and still change my lightbulbs, improve my mpg's, and install energy efficient appliances, etc.

Never said you couldn't.


Quote:
Let's mention that ALL the other planets are warming, and not just Mars.

Planets with atmospheres... NOT all planets.

Quote:
What Al Gore seems to get is a "Get out of your own carbon footprint requirements" free card. This is important to note because he is demanding and proposing legislation will others will not get such treatment for their own carbon use. He is demanding that everyone become carbon neutral while not even being willing to demonstrate himself that this can be done.

Is Al Gore not carbon neutral? Not to defend him, but his child may drive a maserati but if he contributes electricity back into the grid at a rate greater than his family's consumption of carbon equivalents, then he is carbon neutral.

Al Gore may be hypocritical or he may not be, we don't know.
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
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"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
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