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Would putting a standard slot-loading DVD drive in the Apple TV make sense right now?

Poll Results: Would putting a standard slot-loading DVD drive in the Apple TV make sense right now?

 
  • 52% (52)
    (I have read your post) Putting a DVD slot in the Apple TV makes sense right now
  • 48% (48)
    (I have read your post) Putting a DVD slot in the Apple TV doesn't makes sense right now
100 Total Votes  
post #1 of 163
Thread Starter 
Please read this post before voting - thank you.

Myself and 'gugy' have been arguing this one to no end in that other thread. I started this poll because of how strongly I feel on the subject. Gugy thinks putting a slot-loading DVD drive in an Apple TV doesn't make sense for Apple because it would compete with their whole downloading movies over the internet through iTunes strategy.

I disagree though, here's why:

Apple could sell millions of these things if it could play peoples DVD's, it's not hard to imagine. They could chuck their old, bulky DVD player, and go with this modern easy-to-use, minimal, understated set-up. Without a DVD slot, right now, it's just a fancy media streamer--a niche product--they'll be very lucky to sell over two million of them. When we get to a point when downloading movies makes more sense than physical disks, then he'd have a point, but even at that people would still need an additional device taking up space in their set-up to play their DVD's. Right now, and in the future putting a DVD slot in this device just makes sense, it's that simple.

More people are starting to choose downloading music over buying CD's now cause it makes more sense. Yet they still have the option of doing the latter, their computers have the drive to play and rip that content. They choose to download cause it's quicker, easier, and more efficient. The same would be true for Apple TV at a point, even if it could still play regular old DVD disks too. Downloading movies over using DVD's doesn't make sense right now, we're just not there yet, infrastructure-wise or content-wise. And in the mean time, Apple aint selling many Apple TV's.

Oh, and here's how it could look:


Gugy you may as well vote no now and get it out of the way.
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post #2 of 163
Thread Starter 
This you may find humorous, or interesting, or perhaps, a bit of both.
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post #3 of 163
nope will never happen. maybe in 5 years a blu ray drive.
post #4 of 163
Until they get more studios involved - yes - they need something. That BOX needs a purpose. Even though I voted yes I think a DVR (tivo) would be better.
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post #5 of 163
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlooker View Post

Until they get more studios involved - yes - they need something. That BOX needs a purpose. Even though I voted yes I think a DVR (tivo) would be better.

I appreciate you voting yes, but with iPTV as a dead certain down in the pipeline, we wont need a DVR in the future.
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post #6 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

I appreciate you voting yes, but with iPTV as a dead certain down in the pipeline, we wont need a DVR in the future.

Whatever iPTV is - unless it can record all my stuff while I'm out of town, sleeping, watching another program, or just too busy to watch, I don't see the popularity of DVR's going anywhere but up.

[edit] I don't think so. IPTV sucks ass. I just read a bit of wiki on it, and I think anybody with half a brain is going to tivo their programming rather than pay PPV pricing for every show they want to record. \
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post #7 of 163
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlooker View Post

Whatever iPTV is - unless it can record all my stuff while I'm out of town, sleeping, watching another program, or just too busy to watch, I don't see the popularity of DVR's going anywhere but up.

[edit] I don't think so. IPTV sucks ass. I just read a bit of wiki on it, and I think anybody with half a brain is going to tivo their programming rather than pay PPV pricing for every show they want to record. \

Well the current model for iPTV is PPV, but future models could be pay monthly viewing. Two packages. One for a lot of TV, and one a normal amount. So when you want to watch that show, you use your Apple TV, find the show you want to watch over a direct internet connection and watch it.
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post #8 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Well the current model for iPTV is PPV, but future models could be pay monthly viewing. Two packages. One for a lot of TV, and one a normal amount. So when you want to watch that show, you use your Apple TV, find the show you want to watch over a direct internet connection and watch it.

Again - Monthly Package vs. Free??? I don't think so.
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post #9 of 163
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlooker View Post

Again - Monthly Package vs. Free??? I don't think so.

You get your TV programming for free?
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post #10 of 163
I voted no. Really I think a blu ray drive makes WAY more sense. I'm sure the optical bashers will come soon and give their 2 cents.
post #11 of 163
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac View Post

I voted no. Really I think a blu ray drive makes WAY more sense. I'm sure the optical bashers will come soon and give their 2 cents.

I agree, to a point, but Blu-ray drives simply aren't cheap enough at this point. Which is why we aren't seeing them in Macs yet. I'm talking about the Apple TV as it stands right now, not at a point in the future when Apple could sell them with a Blu-ray drive, and still make it some way affordable.
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post #12 of 163
AppleTV needs to replace the functionality of all content source media -- in other words, it needs to be able to replace your DVD player and your TiVo, and it should have an internal HDTV tuner. Getting rid of all those cruddy boxes for one sleek entertainment media source would give it a real reason to exist.

You know how iTunes rips a CD to your harddrive when you put in an audio CD? AppleTV needs to do the same thing, but with video. The truly killerapp for AppleTV is to have it rip an inserted DVD to its harddrive.
post #13 of 163
I voted no, although I am truly on the fence with this one. Although I can see where Ireland is coming from, I voted no because I personally wouldn't buy one with a DVD drive. If there was the choice, I'd still by my regular AppleTV. The main reason for this is that I wouldn't want a cheap slot loader replacing my NAD DVD player and what's the point in having 2?

Now if Apple TV came with a Blu-ray drive I'd buy another (even if it needed to be £400) and stick my current AppleTV in the bedroom.
post #14 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Please read this post before voting - thank you.

...

Oh, and here's how it could look:


Gugy you may as well vote no now and get it out of the way.

Jeez, did you need to start another bleeding thread? And no it isn't how it bleeding looks because all you did was take an aTV and add a slot. There's no room in the current case for a optical drive.

And also, given the voting is ahead on "no" at this moment (10 to 9) Gugy isn't the only one to disagree.

Vinea
post #15 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

I agree, to a point, but Blu-ray drives simply aren't cheap enough at this point. Which is why we aren't seeing them in Macs yet. I'm talking about the Apple TV as it stands right now, not at a point in the future when Apple could sell them with a Blu-ray drive, and still make it some way affordable.

Sure they ain't cheap. But I'd be willing to pay $1000 for a blu ray ATV, whereas the current ATV doesn't quite get me to open up my wallet at $299.
post #16 of 163
I've always thought that adding a DVD drive would have made more sense and been a more attractive offering for most people. Like Killerapp mentioned - being able to replace all those ugly boxes that sit under most TVs with one sleek "all-in-one" device would be great. There are plenty of us out there who might still chose a dedicated device to perform each function, but I can think of countless people (my parents and many people their age - 50's-60's) who would love to turn on the TV and then have all their media controlled through one device with one remote. No more messing with the "TV input" button on your 5 remotes to find the right source anymore.

Front Row is already set up to handle DVD's so adding the extra menu option to ATV would make things even more seamless between your PC and your TV. DVD drives are dirt cheap. I think the whole thing would make perfect sense for Apple.

I don't think we'll see DVD ripping to the ATV hard drive anytime soon (Apple sponsored that is) due to the movie studio's paranoia, but that's another thread altogether.
post #17 of 163
My vote is for BR-DVD instead of just a DVD.

Maybe Apple should offer three versions - one the way it is now, one with a DVD player, and one with a BR-DVD. Then people can jump in at the level they want. Shouldn't be too hard for Apple to do.
post #18 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac View Post

I voted no. Really I think a blu ray drive makes WAY more sense. I'm sure the optical bashers will come soon and give their 2 cents.

Make no sense to add any type of optical drive solution to appleTV. The appleTV was made to support iTunes with your HDTV as a streaming hub and that's all it's good for. If you want an optical drive...then get one via external solution....or get a mac/macmini instead....

BTW, the PQ out of AppleTV is horrible. Apple needs much work to improve driver support and software support in the HTPC area. Most HDTV has better video processor that performs 100x better than how AppleTV handles the video right now. Therefore, adding any type of drive to this horribly performing AppleTV that cost $599 to $699 with HiDef optical drive would equal a product failure.
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post #19 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemymac View Post

Make no sense to add any type of optical drive solution to appleTV. The appleTV was made to support iTunes with your HDTV as a streaming hub and that's all it's good for.

The ATV doesn't make sense now. Let's see, I have a device that requires an HDTV to work but can't really get any HD content. It has to get media from itunes store which has limited studio support. Does that make sense?

While Blu ray and HD DVD make be the end of optical media, they will still be around for another 10 years IMO. Just because Steve said this will be this last optical media format doesn't mean that it's going away tomorrow.
post #20 of 163
If a DVD drive were added, it would double its height, at least. Cost is also an issue. With those two in mind, you're looking at a 3G Mac Mini--a product that will never see the light of day. I think the current form is fine for its purposes.

I have a DVD player I can hook up if I ever have the need to watch one. Funny, that need has not presented itself yet.
post #21 of 163
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gordy View Post

If a DVD drive were added, it would double its height, at least. Cost is also an issue. With those two in mind, you're looking at a 3G Mac Mini--a product that will never see the light of day. I think the current form is fine for its purposes.

I have a DVD player I can hook up if I ever have the need to watch one. Funny, that need has not presented itself yet.

Saying you don't get it may sound a bit condescending, so I wont go there. What I will say is this; Apple makes far more money on hardware than it does selling any form of downloadable media, far more. DVD drives are dirt, dirt cheap, and if you were fully aware of the size they can be, you wouldn't have said it would double the height of the Apple TV.

If Apple did include a DVD drive, many more people would buy them, as they would be much more useful to people, and would give them more functionality, a nicer, more user-friendly experience, and a cooler, cleaner set-up. Then, when the bandwidth infrastructure is there, and more importantly, when quality content is there, people could get their new movies and such from the Apple store using the same Apple device. And they would choose to download then, just as they do now with music, for the simple reason, it would be more convenient, and probably cheaper too. If that's not a win win for everyone, including Apple, I don't know what is.

The Apple TV would then be a nicely profitable DVD player for Apple, that is software up-datable, future-proofed, and future-ready. And compatible with all your old content too.
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post #22 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Saying you don't get it may sound a bit condescending, so I wont go there. What I will say is this; Apple makes far more money on hardware than it does selling any form of downloadable media, far more. DVD drives are dirt, dirt cheap, and if you were fully aware of the size they can be, you wouldn't have said it would double the height of the Apple TV.

If Apple did include a DVD drive, many more people would buy them, as they would be much more useful to people, and would give them more functionality, a nicer, more user-friendly experience, and a cooler, cleaner set-up. Then, when the bandwidth infrastructure is there, and more importantly, when quality content is there, people could get their new movies and such from the Apple store using the same Apple device. And they would choose to download then, just as they do now with music, for the simple reason, it would be more convenient, and probably cheaper too. If that's not a win win for everyone, including Apple, I don't know what is.

The Apple TV would then be a nicely profitable DVD player for Apple, that is software up-datable, future-proofed, and future-ready. And compatible with all your old content too.


Well now we know your opinion "AGAIN" but we thought everybody could get one without having to listen to yours AGAIN.

I voted yes, but I am against it. So add one more NO to that poll. I don't think anything is going to help that machine now.

If Apple would have bought Scientific Atlanta and started making cable boxes that had multitude of functionality they would have had something, but as it is AppleTV is a one pony show, and that pony died on the track.
Scientific Atlanta would have given them probably over million existing subscribers, a Broad Band cable box / internet connect that they could have given iTunes accessibility to with a CD burner in every cable subscribers home. They could have incorporated an Airport w/ Airtunes in it as well. The possibilities are all there.
For a small fee SA cable boxes come with a built in DVR which all together these functions would have given them another foot into another growing enterprise that has broad base of existing subscribers. They could have opened doors, but instead we have AppleTV. It's almost dead in the water.
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post #23 of 163
I get it, I just don't agree. As far as the 'if they build it, they will come' notion I have one case-in-point to dispute the claim: the Mac Mini. AppleTV is not DVD player. It's the Non-DVD player.
post #24 of 163
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gordy View Post

I get it, I just don't agree. As far as the 'if they build it, they will come' notion I have one case-in-point to dispute the claim: the Mac Mini. AppleTV is not DVD player. It's the Non-DVD player.

Wow, it doesn't play DVD's and it doesn't allow you to watch movies as good as DVD quality downloaded from the iTunes store. I see you're point. Apple are really pulling another iPod for the living room here.
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post #25 of 163
A Blu-ray drive makes more sense since it will be a very long time until Apple can offer 1080P content in the iTunes Store.
post #26 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Wow, it doesn't play DVD's and it doesn't allow you to watch movies as good as DVD quality downloaded from the iTunes store. I see you're point. Apple are really pulling another iPod for the living room here.

dude you ask for peoples opinions but when we give them and they dont go along with what you want you get kinda nasty. take it easy!
post #27 of 163
Untill wifi is able to stream 1080p movies effortlessly, and internet is connected totally via fibre optic cables, i doubt we'll see downloadable 1080p movies from itunes. The current/near future infrastructure just wont be able to support it.

An optical drive makes the most sense in terms of getting full HD content on your TV. Perhaps we could even see a sync disc to appletv option.
post #28 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Saying you don't get it may sound a bit condescending, so I wont go there....

but then you DO go there


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

DVD drives are dirt, dirt cheap, and if you were fully aware of the size they can be, you wouldn't have said it would double the height of the Apple TV.

The thing I think some people forget when posting on messageboards and in life in general, is that its sometimes GOOD to have your views challanged and even come away with a different view than you started with.

Maybe you should consider that?
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post #29 of 163
Look at the poll -- half of us think the AppleTV needs a DVD player. That implies that apple could DOUBLE its sales of the AppleTV if it simply included the player. For those that don't want the DVD, they won't be required to put a disk in...
post #30 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Saying you don't get it may sound a bit condescending, so I wont go there. What I will say is this; Apple makes far more money on hardware than it does selling any form of downloadable media, far more. DVD drives are dirt, dirt cheap, and if you were fully aware of the size they can be, you wouldn't have said it would double the height of the Apple TV.

Well obviously you don't know the size of DVD drives either because they aren't zero height.

Quote:
If Apple did include a DVD drive, many more people would buy them,

Unsupported assertion. Next stop...the xMac.

Quote:
The Apple TV would then be a nicely profitable DVD player for Apple, that is software up-datable, future-proofed, and future-ready. And compatible with all your old content too.

And yet Apple neglected to put a cheap and easy to include DVD drive deliberately...you want "future ready" include a BR drive, not a DVD drive.

Vinea
post #31 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by killerapp View Post

Look at the poll -- half of us think the AppleTV needs a DVD player. That implies that apple could DOUBLE its sales of the AppleTV if it simply included the player. For those that don't want the DVD, they won't be required to put a disk in...

Point of the day. Actually I think its the best point of the thread.

I could care less if they added a DVD player. But I think transmiting DVD via WiFi is going to make it look even worse. How good is the picture. From what people have said in here - not that good.

Vote correction = 16 Yes, 19 No.
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post #32 of 163
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by killerapp View Post

Look at the poll -- half of us think the AppleTV needs a DVD player. That implies that apple could DOUBLE its sales of the AppleTV if it simply included the player. For those that don't want the DVD, they won't be required to put a disk in...

Notice the more logical posts tend to be shorter, cause they are true.
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post #33 of 163
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

Well obviously you don't know the size of DVD drives either because they aren't zero height.

I never said they were zero hight, the drive may raise the height of the Apple TV a little bit, but saying it will double it is just sensationalist. There's a small bit of room in the Apple TV, and I'm sure with a bit a clever Apple engineering, they could nearly make it the exact same size.
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post #34 of 163
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea

And yet Apple neglected to put a cheap and easy to include DVD drive deliberately...you want "future ready" include a BR drive, not a DVD drive.

Vinea

I agree, but that's not economically viable. If the Apple TV cost $1000 I'd say they'd sell only a few thousand of them.
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post #35 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

I agree, but that's not economically viable. If the Apple TV cost $1000 I'd say they'd sell only a few thousand of them.

Agreed. $1000 is too much. That's more than a MacMini. I think the most Apple could charge for a Blu-ray AppleTV would be about £400 in the UK etc and $700 in the US.
post #36 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Notice the more logical posts tend to be shorter, cause they are true.

Or just shorter.

Vinea
post #37 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

I never said they were zero hight,

You picture implies it.

Quote:
the drive may raise the height of the Apple TV a little bit, but saying it will double it is just sensationalist. There's a small bit of room in the Apple TV, and I'm sure with a bit a clever Apple engineering, they could nearly make it the exact same size.

Uh huh...no its not zero height but Apple could use the miniscule space left and have it nearly the exact (heh) same size. No, it'll be taller by a 1/4" or so (the "or so" meaning more and not less).

Face it...enough people disagree with your assertion that the aTV needs a DVD drive that its not the no brainer you keep implying it is. Nor is there any expectation that "sales would double" simply because a dozen folks or so in this thread might say they might buy one if it had a DVD drive.

It's simply not a killer feature. Add DVR + cable card + Blu Ray and you'd have a product that might sell more...in the US market anyway...would need a different cable interface for different parts of the world...wouldn't that be annoying for Apple?

No, iTunes only seems like a nice little start until BR drive prices drop.

Vinea
post #38 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

I agree, but that's not economically viable. If the Apple TV cost $1000 I'd say they'd sell only a few thousand of them.

Why on earth would aTV with a BR drive cost more than a aTV and a PS3? aTV would be around $599 like many other BR players.

hey...when the heck did they add the 160GB aTV model for $399?

Vinea
post #39 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

Why on earth would aTV with a BR drive cost more than a aTV and a PS3? aTV would be around $599 like many other BR players.

hey...when the heck did they add the 160GB aTV model for $399?

Vinea

About a month ago I believe.

It's still too early to think about putting in opical drives IMO. Right now the money for Apple TV needs to be spent in beefing up the hardware so that it supports 1080 and faster bitrates.

If that takes off then the idea of putting in optical drives can be evaluated.
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post #40 of 163
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

Or just shorter.

Vinea

Tend to be.
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