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Would putting a standard slot-loading DVD drive in the Apple TV make sense right now? - Page 3

Poll Results: Would putting a standard slot-loading DVD drive in the Apple TV make sense right now?

 
  • 52% (52)
    (I have read your post) Putting a DVD slot in the Apple TV makes sense right now
  • 48% (48)
    (I have read your post) Putting a DVD slot in the Apple TV doesn't makes sense right now
100 Total Votes  
post #81 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich-Myster View Post

he said that it might increase the height a bit, but not by a lot.

He also said (among other things) that inclusion of a BD drive would make it cost $1000 and Apple would only sell a couple 1000 units.

BUT, he won't back this claim (among others) up with data/evidence/market research.
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post #82 of 163
I believe the Apple TV can become successful for Apple, it just needs a few changes and as technology advances these changes can be implemented. As more people start adopting broadband internet and speeds increase the Apple TV can move forward...

- Firstly the itunes store needs high definition content since the device is being used for HDTV's...
- There needs to be some sort of rental service on itunes and used for Apple TV
- IPTV service which can challenge cable and satellite companies
- Satellite radio
- Being able to play itunes games with the Apple TV....
- Creating a new touchscreen universal remote with the same design as the iphone to replace the existing remote which can control your apple tv, television, and other devices as well as being used as a controller for the games
- Needs more content (movies, classic tv shows, sports matches, etc)
- DVR function with programming similar to TIVO
- Ability to browse the internet...
- Intergrated itunes into Apple TV
- Being able to watch programming while away on your iphone or another computer, sort of like how the slingbox does it...
- Adding a service like flickr to it...

What do y'all think...Can these ideas be implemented...
post #83 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Slocombe View Post

He also said (among other things) that inclusion of a BD drive would make it cost $1000 and Apple would only sell a couple 1000 units.

BUT, he won't back this claim (among others) up with data/evidence/market research.

sony lost a bunch of money selling the ps3 for how much it costs. seeing as the apple tv is 450 canadian, that would leave you with another 550 dollars for the drive, how much does a blu ray drive cost? for 550 why not just buy the ps3's and rip the drive out D:. i'm not sure how much a blu ray drive costs but all ireland is trying to say is that, the addition of the bluray drive would bring up the price quite a bit. where as a simple dvd player drive would be like 20 bucks and make all the difference. i think all this bluray crap is bull and that dvd quality is fine enough.
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post #84 of 163
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adjei View Post

I believe the Apple TV can become successful for Apple, it just needs a few changes and as technology advances these changes can be implemented. As more people start adopting broadband internet and speeds increase the Apple TV can move forward...

- Firstly the itunes store needs high definition content since the device is being used for HDTV's...
- There needs to be some sort of rental service on itunes and used for Apple TV
- IPTV service which can challenge cable and satellite companies
- Satellite radio
- Being able to play itunes games with the Apple TV....
- Creating a new touchscreen universal remote with the same design as the iphone to replace the existing remote which can control your apple tv, television, and other devices as well as being used as a controller for the games
- Needs more content (movies, classic tv shows, sports matches, etc)
- Ability to browse the internet...
- Being able to watch programming while away on your iphone or another computer, sort of like how the slingbox does it...

What do y'all think...Can these ideas be implemented...

I agree with all that accept the browsing the internet, a web browser in the living room is the wrong direction. A specialized wikipedia widget formatted for a TV, possibly, but not the full internet.
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post #85 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

I agree with all that accept the browsing the internet, a web browser in the living room is the wrong direction. A specialized wikipedia widget formatted for a TV, possibly, but not the full internet.

I agree, I believe the Apple TV is a gem and Apple should work on improving it...
post #86 of 163
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adjei View Post

I agree, I believe the Apple TV is a gem and Apple should work on improving it...

All that stuff is probably already in the works too.
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post #87 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adjei View Post

I believe the Apple TV can become successful for Apple, it just needs a few changes and as technology advances these changes can be implemented. As more people start adopting broadband internet and speeds increase the Apple TV can move forward...

- Firstly the itunes store needs high definition content since the device is being used for HDTV's...
- There needs to be some sort of rental service on itunes and used for Apple TV
- IPTV service which can challenge cable and satellite companies
- Satellite radio
- Being able to play itunes games with the Apple TV....
- Creating a new touchscreen universal remote with the same design as the iphone to replace the existing remote which can control your apple tv, television, and other devices as well as being used as a controller for the games
- Needs more content (movies, classic tv shows, sports matches, etc)
- DVR function with programming similar to TIVO
- Ability to browse the internet...
- Intergrated itunes into Apple TV
- Being able to watch programming while away on your iphone or another computer, sort of like how the slingbox does it...

What do y'all think...Can these ideas be implemented...

I see that your list is good.
things that make sense.
My only question comes to DVR. While I would love to have one, I wonder if the Studios and networks are pressuring Apple not to do it. Plus like I have been saying, Apple rather sell this content through iTunes, but since the amount of content is so small at this point, maybe they would let it happen or integrate Elgato even more into iTunes UI. And internet, I don't think they will do it.

I see that you had the comom sense not to include a optical drive in your list of sugestions for Ireland's sadness.
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post #88 of 163
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gugy

I see that you had the comom sense not to include a optical drive in your list of sugestions for Ireland's sadness.

Ok, yeah.
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post #89 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by gugy View Post

I see that your list is good.
things that make sense.
My only question comes to DVR. While I would love to have one, I wonder if the Studios and networks are pressuring Apple not to do it. Plus like I have been saying, Apple rather sell this content through iTunes, but since the amount of content is so small at this point, maybe they would let it happen or integrate Elgato even more into iTunes UI. And internet, I don't think they will do it.

I see that you had the comom sense not to include a optical drive in your list of sugestions for Ireland's sadness.


I meant in the sense that the DVR would be used with the IPTV model that Apple would be using with the Apple TV...Apple can change the way we watch TV with the Apple TV, they could give competition to cable and satellite companies and also companies like TIVO...
post #90 of 163
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adjei View Post

I meant in the sense that the DVR would be used with the IPTV model that Apple would be using with the Apple TV...Apple can change the way we watch TV with the Apple TV, they could give competition to cable and satellite companies and also companies like TIVO...

Don't mind it, I know what you meant.
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post #91 of 163
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post #92 of 163
the main difference is that Sony takes a loss on the sale of a PS3 and expects to make it up in sales of video game / software titles.

apple's current strategy is to make a reasonable profit on every piece of hardware that they sell.

my vote would be to at least offer different versions. i am not a fan of blue ray disc, but would like to see an option for DVD versions... which is actually very similar to the rumored soon to be axed mini. i have a hard time seeing a mac pro in every A/V local system, so hope that apple has some plan for a compact computer. front row 2.0 is rumored to look like the apple tv interface.



Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

Why on earth would aTV with a BR drive cost more than a aTV and a PS3? aTV would be around $599 like many other BR players.

hey...when the heck did they add the 160GB aTV model for $399?

Vinea
post #93 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsvisser View Post

which is actually very similar to the rumored soon to be axed mini.

The Mac Mini is not going away anytime soon: it's way too valuable for education sales, and a great option for switchers who don't spend all day playing twitch shooters.

But I think the issue here is how would an AppleTV with a DVD drive differ from a MacMini? It's a little too close for comfort. I can see the AppleTV and MacMini evolving into a single device -- to me (and I just mean me!) that would make sense.

The optical drive item is very like the iMac design: no floppy, no ADB, no whatever else we thought was essential.

All of the above said, I'd buy a MacMini as a media center, not a AppleTV, but I'm a geek and if I could have the flush mechanism of the toilet be computerized I'd be all over it.
post #94 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adjei View Post

I believe the Apple TV can become successful for Apple, it just needs a few changes and as technology advances these changes can be implemented. As more people start adopting broadband internet and speeds increase the Apple TV can move forward...

- Firstly the itunes store needs high definition content since the device is being used for HDTV's...

This is about the only thing that is required.

Quote:
- There needs to be some sort of rental service on itunes and used for Apple TV
- IPTV service which can challenge cable and satellite companies

There is no requirement for these. Apple has believed that purchase is better than rental. While this may change it would require the agreement of the studios. Real IPTV service for the number of iTunes customers would require far more infrastructure than sales and download.

Quote:
- Satellite radio

Again sales vs rental/subscription. Also satellite radio already has internet broadcast for subscribers.

Quote:
- Being able to play itunes games with the Apple TV....
- Creating a new touchscreen universal remote with the same design as the iphone to replace the existing remote which can control your apple tv, television, and other devices as well as being used as a controller for the games

Simple games will likely come as are control widgets for iPhones and iPods.

Quote:
- Needs more content (movies, classic tv shows, sports matches, etc)

Which will come.

Quote:
- DVR function with programming similar to TIVO

No. First this means that Apple will need to license DVR technology from TiVO and second, DVRs are annoying/expensive to build to work with cable companies (cable cards + activation) and third if you have rental/subscription/IPTV then DVR technology is as outdated as DVDs.

Quote:
- Ability to browse the internet...
- Intergrated itunes into Apple TV
- Being able to watch programming while away on your iphone or another computer, sort of like how the slingbox does it...
- Adding a service like flickr to it...

These are likely.

Quote:
What do y'all think...Can these ideas be implemented...

Of course they CAN be. Whether they are likely to are business decisions. IPTV is very unlikely. DVR is very unlikely. Subscriptions/Rentals are possible.

Vinea
post #95 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsvisser View Post

the main difference is that Sony takes a loss on the sale of a PS3 and expects to make it up in sales of video game / software titles.

apple's current strategy is to make a reasonable profit on every piece of hardware that they sell.

Given that a Blu-Ray drive is $300 retail it would depend on how much the processor/video chain needs to be boosted to do flawless 1080p playback and the cost for Blu-Ray player licensing. $699 isn't an unreasonable estimate moving forward.

Vinea
post #96 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

I agree with all that accept the browsing the internet, a web browser in the living room is the wrong direction. A specialized wikipedia widget formatted for a TV, possibly, but not the full internet.

There is no reason not to have an internet browser and even email/IM capability on the aTV. Competitors have them (consoles, etc) and its not like its a new concept (WebTV).

Vinea
post #97 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Please read this post before voting - thank you.

Myself and 'gugy' have been arguing this one to no end in that other thread. I started this poll because of how strongly I feel on the subject. Gugy thinks putting a slot-loading DVD drive in an Apple TV doesn't make sense for Apple because it would compete with their whole downloading movies over the internet through iTunes strategy.

I disagree though, here's why:

Apple could sell millions of these things if it could play peoples DVD's, it's not hard to imagine. They could chuck their old, bulky DVD player, and go with this modern easy-to-use, minimal, understated set-up. Without a DVD slot, right now, it's just a fancy media streamer--a niche product--they'll be very lucky to sell over two million of them. When we get to a point when downloading movies makes more sense than physical disks, then he'd have a point, but even at that people would still need an additional device taking up space in their set-up to play their DVD's. Right now, and in the future putting a DVD slot in this device just makes sense, it's that simple.

More people are starting to choose downloading music over buying CD's now cause it makes more sense. Yet they still have the option of doing the latter, their computers have the drive to play and rip that content. They choose to download cause it's quicker, easier, and more efficient. The same would be true for Apple TV at a point, even if it could still play regular old DVD disks too. Downloading movies over using DVD's doesn't make sense right now, we're just not there yet, infrastructure-wise or content-wise. And in the mean time, Apple aint selling many Apple TV's.

Oh, and here's how it could look:


Gugy you may as well vote no now and get it out of the way.

Bad idea. You will see why in a few months . Apple does make mistakes but this ain't one of them. It doesn't have a 440 gig hard drive either. It will be easier and better to have a cheap device that is programable with no accessories that will be obsolete in a year. It will be years before the opposition can compete with os x in this box. The slot is in your computer across the room . They do talk to each other with out the wires .I and steve jobs vote NO .
post #98 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adjei View Post

I agree, I believe the Apple TV is a gem and Apple should work on improving it...


Same here. To me it's an ipod for the living room where I can choose my music on the big screen and enjoy my pictures. Superb product.

Everyone who has seen the Apple tv have been nothing but impressed.

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post #99 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Please read this post before voting - thank you.

I agree and like the look but as well as play dvds what'd be great imo is to be able to use that same drive to burn the content you stream.

Let's say you stream your vacation video and grandma likes it, have the appleTV spit out a copy for her to take with her, instead of having to go back to the computer. These things would play as straight video, no menus maybe with an apple logo watermark in the corner. I can enjoy a dvd whereever I want, why download from itunes and be stuck only watching it on only 3 devices, i've lent friends movies tons of times, with the current system that's impossible.

I think that'd be great, after all you can burn your itunes songs.
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post #100 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

Well obviously you don't know the size of DVD drives either because they aren't zero height.

It could be zero height or nearly zero height actually. It's obviously a slot loading drive and looking at my mbp as i type this, it has next to no height, you'd just need to design the appleTV's motherboard a bit differently.
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post #101 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Slocombe View Post

I believe your implied threat of violence towards me goes against board rules, if you cant keep your comments civil, then perhaps you shouldnt comment at all?

I'm sorry but saying that a slap is violence is just too funny.... Unless your a celebrity try telling the cops to have someone arrested because you nerdfest arguements about dvd player inclusion got out of hand and you were slapped.

"Officer....he slapped me!"



This place is too funny sometimes.
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post #102 of 163
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecking View Post

I'm sorry but saying that a slap is violence is just too funny.... Unless your a celebrity try telling the cops to have someone arrested because you nerdfest arguements about dvd player inclusion got out of hand and you were slapped.

"Officer....he slapped me!"



This place is too funny sometimes.

Be careful, he gonna pwn you for that now!
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post #103 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecking View Post

It could be zero height or nearly zero height actually. It's obviously a slot loading drive and looking at my mbp as i type this, it has next to no height, you'd just need to design the appleTV's motherboard a bit differently.

If you look at the MBP disassembly pics you'll see that there aint nothing underneath the drive and it takes pretty much the thickness of the MBP (keyboard half).

http://eshop.macsales.com/Reviews/ha...s/Image18.html

Now look at the disassembly pics for the Apple TV.

http://s22.photobucket.com/albums/b3...pple_TV_1a.jpg

What? You two can't flipping use Google to search for "disassembly" "MBP" and "Apple TV"? You tell me that you can fit that drive in that case and have room for all the other stuff in the Apple TV?

Zero height or near zero height? Design the motherboard differently? Buy a damn clue. Add the slot loading drive and you increase the aTV size by the height of the drive (hint, this is non-zero) if not a little more for heat dissipation.

All Ireland did was draw a slot into the existing aTV which is bogus. Increase the height and the proportions are obviously a little different and not quite as sleek and slim.

Vinea
post #104 of 163
Fine. Here. Before and After.



Picture is copyright Apple off their site. Used without permission for edumacational purposes to show Ireland that DVD drives are not zero height. You can shave off the space between the slot and the top but then it looks unbalanced. It looks rather like a misporportioned Mini.

Looking at it, it seems there should be more room under the drive but I guess we can move the HDD above the DVD drive to get the balance. Maybe. The heat sink on the processor likely gets in the way of the drive a little as does the power supply in that lower position. Probably needs to be a taller than what is shown or the slot moved up which makes it look silly. That's also probably not really 1.8"...more like 1.6"...I didn't measure and did it by eye.

Vinea
post #105 of 163
and arnt Blu-ray drives thicker again? I don't think we quite have the ultra slim BD drives yet.
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post #106 of 163
I would have to say that a DVD drive wouldn't make sense as DVD is aleady compromised regarding security and many people are already playing back Mpeg2_ts files through ATV.

A HD optical drive would be nice but the ATV cannot handle HD DVDs bitrate let alone Blu-ray so we need another generation or two of hardware advances before that is feasible.
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post #107 of 163
Also the heat generated by the optical drive would need to be taken into consideration. Apple TV already gets quite warm, so if an optical drive was added, Apple would have to allow for sufficient air flow in the case.
post #108 of 163
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea


So you're telling my the slimmest, decent standard DVD drive Apple could engineer into the Apple TV would be 17.78mm.. please! That's just too funny. And that's not even taking in to account them reengineering the existing internal design to make things fit even snugger. I'd bet if Apple engineers set their minds to it, they could get this thing in around 1.4" tall. Which is still way smaller then your DVD player, and this thing wouldn't be just that, it could be set-top-box some day too. One box for all your needs.
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post #109 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

So you're telling my the slimmest, decent standard DVD drive Apple could engineer into the Apple TV would be 17.78mm.. please! That's just too funny. And that's not even taking in to account them reengineering the existing internal design to make things fit even snugger. I'd bet if Apple engineers set their minds to it, they could get this thing in around 1.4" tall. Which is still way smaller then your DVD player, and this thing wouldn't be just that, it could be set-top-box some day too. One box for all your needs.

WHY do you continue to pedal your unfounded wishlist claptrap as truth?

Unlike you I actually own an aTV and I can assure you that as it stands it gets Pretty freakin hot right now, but you are trying to say from your uninformed point of view, that MORE heat generating electronics could be put inside with very little to no extra space for that heat.

what next? you want to add fans?

Its not doing to get a DVD drive, it might be cool if it had one , but it WON'T simply because it goes against Apples strategy.

Even supposing for a moment that it did get a DVD drive, it would HAVE to get taller - FULL STOP.
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post #110 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

So you're telling my the slimmest, decent standard DVD drive Apple could engineer into the Apple TV would be 17.78mm.. please! That's just too funny. And that's not even taking in to account them reengineering the existing internal design to make things fit even snugger.

9.5mm for the MBP superdrive. 1-2 mm for offset from internal components because maybe you don't want the DVD drive that close to the CPU heatsink. Then another 5-6mm or so for offset from the top to not look stupid. So around 1.8" total height give or take a little.

As for snugger...look at the damn box. Its very snug as is...here it is since you obviously can't click a link.



Rearrange that genius.

Vinea
post #111 of 163
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea

Rearrange that genius.

Thanks, you're not too bad yourself. Just sayin' 17.78mm is not too thin for a slim DVD slot drive, you can get them way thinner in fact.
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post #112 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Thanks, you're not to bad yourself. Just sayin' 17.78mm is not too thin for a slim DVD slot drive, you can get them way thinner in fact.

He isn't saying its 17.78mm for the drive alone, can't you read? he said "9.5mm for the MBP superdrive." the extra space is needed for engineering/thermodynamic/aesthetic reasons. You know, stuff that exist in the REAL world.

The more of your posts I read, the more I think of THIS because it seems to be what you want to do with Apple products.
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post #113 of 163
Thread Starter 
So part of your point is he's making it bigger for aesthetic reasons, lol.
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post #114 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

So part of your point is he's making it bigger for aesthetic reasons, lol.

Asthetic reasons due to component placement inside, plus its Apple so yeah, you can't exactly ignore asthetics and call it an Apple product now can you?

Gee maybe you just didn't read his posts all that well
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post #115 of 163
Slimline Blu-Ray burner available at $852 retail ($999 MSRP).



http://store.pcpowerzone.com/pablujslsllo.html

$50 more from a mac store.

http://store.fastmac.com/product_inf...roducts_id=195

Given that its only one company (Panasonic) with no current retail competitors (that I could find...possibly all the laptops are using the Panny drive) I expect that price to drop as more laptops are made with Blu-Ray and other makers release products onto the retail market. By the time aTV rev 2 comes around, should Apple want a optical drive then the RETAIL price for that kind of drive should be around the $300 we see for the tray loading kind...which Plextor is releasing a new 5x drive for $300 MSRP.

I don't have the time to move the drive slot to the top of the aTV and shrink it down .25" but if you do so (like it sits in the MBP) you can see it looks rather dumb. Maybe later but dismissing asthetics for Apple products means you're really grasping at straws. Adding any optical drive makes the aTV a wider Mini height device so if you're going to bother then make it a Blu-Ray drive.

Plus DVD drives DO get warm. You may need that .25" just for additional heat dissapation/air flow.

Vinea
post #116 of 163
Oh...and you say $852 is too expensive for NOW then heck the answer is still NO since a DVD drive is still not that useful (ie sell millions of units like you say) and its not like Apple can release aTV rev 2 today anyway and even if you did the thing would be a half inch or more taller.

Also I think that with aTV the volume would increase enough the OEM price would drop anyway since Apple would likely start sticking slimline BR burners in a lot of BTO Macs. Sure as heck the folks making laptops are not tacking an extra $1000 just for the drive.
post #117 of 163
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Slocombe View Post

Asthetic reasons due to component placement inside, plus its Apple so yeah, you can't exactly ignore asthetics and call it an Apple product now can you?

Gee maybe you just didn't read his posts all that well

Be nice Walter, please.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #118 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Be nice Walter, please.

Brendan, address some of the questions and suggestions put to you please.
I don't see how an anti M$ stance can be seen as a bad thing on an Apple forum I really can't!

nagromme - According to Amazon: "SpongBob Typing Tutor" is outselling Windows
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I don't see how an anti M$ stance can be seen as a bad thing on an Apple forum I really can't!

nagromme - According to Amazon: "SpongBob Typing Tutor" is outselling Windows
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post #119 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

Why on earth would aTV with a BR drive cost more than a aTV and a PS3?
Vinea

Because Sony subsidises the high component cost of PS3 though sales/licensing of games.
post #120 of 163
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Slocombe View Post

Brendan, address some of the questions and suggestions put to you please.

I don't have time right now Walter, later.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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