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Briefly: Apple offers developers new Leopard build

post #1 of 98
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Apple Inc. this week began offering its developer community a new pre-release build of its upcoming Leopard operating system, sources tell AppleInsider.

Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard build 9A499 is believed to be the first widespread seeding of the software since June. At that time, Apple treated attendees at its annual developers conference to an exclusive preview of build 9A466, later broadening distribution of that same build to its vast Apple Developer Connection community.

According to people familiar with this week's near 7-gigabyte seeding, the new build is noticeably snappier than the one it replaces. Those same people, however, continue to report that software is rife with bugs, making it somewhat unstable.

"I'm recommending to other developers that they stick with the earlier 9A466 build," one said. "[The latest build] is very buggy."

For its part, Apple has already delayed Leopard once -- pushing it out to "October" from an introduction originally planned for June. The company attributed the delay to iPhone, saying it needed to borrow some key software engineering and QA resources from its Mac OS X team in order to make good on a promise to launch the handset by the end of June.

As part of its developers conference six weeks ago, Apple previewed what it called a "near feature complete" version of Leopard, introducing previously "top secret" features such as a new 3D application dock and file "stacks."
post #2 of 98
and maybe we will see another Leopard launch delay?
post #3 of 98
Its coming down to crunch time!

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post #4 of 98
OMG, just what we need to hear today.

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post #5 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by marwoz View Post

and maybe we will see another Leopard launch delay?

no. the first release will be pretty buggy, the world will feedback and X.5.1 will be december-January. of course, i'm probably wrong.
post #6 of 98
I don't think we'll se Leopard released until January 2008.
post #7 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by marwoz View Post

and maybe we will see another Leopard launch delay?

Maybe, but there is nothing in this report to indicate that. A speed increase means that the core team has made some changes, and that tends to expose/create problems higher up in the stack (the bugs). If this release were the final one to make core changes (other than bug-fixes) that would indicate that they are on track. We have no way of knowing at this point.
post #8 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karl Kuehn View Post

Maybe, but there is nothing in this report to indicate that. A speed increase means that the core team has made some changes, and that tends to expose/create problems higher up in the stack (the bugs). If this release were the final one to make core changes (other than bug-fixes) that would indicate that they are on track. We have no way of knowing at this point.

umm, then why release it? why not wait a week or two and let the other developers fix their crap? this release sounds like a Microsoft build philosophy to me.
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post #9 of 98
Quote:
"I'm recommending to other developers that they stick with the earlier 9A466 build," one said. "[The latest build] is very buggy."

If you're a developer I would think you'd want to be on the latest build to test your work against. If your crap doesn't work you try to figure out why and then contact Apple from there.
post #10 of 98
Let's not start any "the sky is falling thing" folks. Leopard is still in beta which means feature complete but still has bugs.

If recent history shows anything is that Apple will release Leopard at the end of October (Apple is now in the habit of shipping major pre-announced products at the last minute. Witness the iPhone and AppleTV). This gives them another 2.5 months to work on Leopard (allowing 2 weeks to press DVDs and manuals and ship to distribution).

Leopard will ship on time and like any other release, it will still have some issues which Apple will fix in their usual manner.
post #11 of 98
Will Apple abandon Leopard?
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post #12 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by city View Post

Will Apple abandon Leopard?

Yes, they are dumping it and going straight to Chester Cheetah.

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post #13 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by josa92 View Post

no. the first release will be pretty buggy, the world will feedback and X.5.1 will be december-January. of course, i'm probably wrong.

I think that's reasonable though, and I think follows a pattern that Apple has had before.
post #14 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


is rife with bugs, making it somewhat unstable.

"I'm recommending to other developers that they stick with the earlier 9A466 build," one said. "[The latest build] is very buggy."

This is worrying for an OS that has already been delayed by several months. Yes they got the iPhone out the door, but at what price? Does this mean a buggy 10.5.0 or another delay? Presumably iLife is just sitting around waiting, and what about the new iMac? It seems that Apple have got themselves into a bit of a pickle here, they need to have a bit of a rethink and make sure that from here on they do not over-extend themselves and spread their resources too thinly. They can't keep hammering their engineers into the ground, and as we know, building up that human resource is a long process.
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post #15 of 98
I'm suprised no one's thought about the fact that they are probably "borrowing" those key programmers to help with the update to the iPhone. Supposedly there's a huge update coming alongside leopard.

Its either that, or they have major issues. Is it me or is Leopard probably the lamest update (feature-wise) since OS 8.6 to OS 9. Tons of features! (But none you will actually use)!
post #16 of 98
The 3D Dock was a "top secret feature?" Really? Spaces I can see, but the new Dock? Really?
post #17 of 98
OMG a buggy beta!!!!!

Apple is teh DOOMED!!!

Sell all your stock now!!!

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post #18 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by biggsjm View Post

Its either that, or they have major issues. Is it me or is Leopard probably the lamest update (feature-wise) since OS 8.6 to OS 9. Tons of features! (But none you will actually use)!

I think it's bigger than Tiger. "200 features", but I went through the list and I don't think I've ever needed more than five of them. I think better screen rotation and ease of swapping mouse button order are the two features that I actually use. If I get Leopard, I am sure I'll use ZFS and Time Machine. Maybe the stack feature. I'm not sure if the iTunes-ized Finder is an improvement.
post #19 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

According to people familiar with this week's near 7-gigabyte seeding, the new build is noticeably snappier than the one it replaces.

Awesome, I was actually pretty happy with the speed in 9a466 but if it's even faster then Leopard is going to be great. Still, when you do get to try leopard, you suddenly see what we've had to put up with for nearly 7 years and it's quite disheartening that it took them this long to get the performance and snappiness Windows users have always had (on a clean installation I mean). It has cost users a great deal of time, money and frustration having to go through numerous hardware and system upgrades.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Those same people, however, continue to report that software is rife with bugs, making it somewhat unstable.

"I'm recommending to other developers that they stick with the earlier 9A466 build," one said. "[The latest build] is very buggy."

Definitely not for people who want to download it and spill secrets. If there are any secrets left of course. Yippee a new widget added at the last minute, quick make a banner.

If it is really buggy then it's quite disappointing because we're getting pretty close to the expected ship date. That's not the final build date, which will have to be sooner. If the ship date is the end of October, I suspect two more builds to come, a stable beta and the final build. Let's hope that even though there may be a lot of bugs that they are minor ones.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Squirrel_Monkey

The 3D Dock was a "top secret feature?" Really? Spaces I can see, but the new Dock? Really?

Of course, nobody saw that coming. I actually think they tried to do something as stupid as possible just so nobody would guess.

Apple switch to Intel? never
Apple make a phone? never
Apple make a transparent menu bar and a 3D dock? They'd have to have their heads up their...

Let's guess what zany scheme they'll come up with next. Top Secret doesn't mean useful, just that nobody knows about it.
post #20 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by marwoz View Post

and maybe we will see another Leopard launch delay?

Although normally I would say that nothing in the report indicates that in a clear way, this time I think that one more delay is a possibility. The iPhone has been proved a resources sink. There is of course the option to meet the deadline at any cost, the worst being releasing Leopard full of bugs to be fixed in a 3-6 months time horizon.
post #21 of 98
The bug list for the new build is NOT that bad at all. Its just typical stuff, in all the areas that are new. I think developers are just frustrated by the usual, "You have to completely reinstall" for this build, and that anything post WWDC Leopard files you created might not work, until recompiled.
post #22 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

Let's guess what zany scheme they'll come up with next. Top Secret doesn't mean useful, just that nobody knows about it.

The claimed reason was that they didn't want MS to have much time to copy it. That turned out to be lame smoke and mirrors, because no one should bother copying it. The 3D panel under the dock was something Solaris had and it should have stayed a Solaris "feature" because it's that lame.
post #23 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

Top Secret doesn't mean useful, just that nobody knows about it.

That's what the definition says. But it has a great marketing value. Jobs bluffing of the last years should make everyone who follows doubting his words.
post #24 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandau View Post

umm, then why release it? why not wait a week or two and let the other developers fix their crap? this release sounds like a Microsoft build philosophy to me.

Because things are never perfect. If you start doing that, all the developers will be doing a "just one more fix", and it'll never get released. Its better to make frequent releases. As only developers are using these builds, the stability is mostly irrelevant.
post #25 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Squirrel_Monkey View Post

The 3D Dock was a "top secret feature?" Really? Spaces I can see, but the new Dock? Really?

In the new build the 3D dock can rotate vertically with a cube-effect, similar that what we've seen in Keynote. This allows you to bring up a new dock, filled with new icons. Effectively creating workspaces for docks. Really useful. I would definitely call that top secret.





(just kidding of course )
post #26 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

I'm not sure if the iTunes-ized Finder is an improvement.

The new Finder is making it easy to switch between computers. This way you can drag files from one computer to the other without the hassle. Meaning that my next Macbookpro is gonna have a new buddy (read: a new 20" iMac i/o a 20" cinema display).
post #27 of 98
Have you guys seen the new Leopard GUI in the WWDC videos? I think Steve has stopped paying attention to the Mac project and the geeks are taking over and turning it in to Linux. We need his simplifying touch and aesthetic judgment on Leopard.
post #28 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Squirrel_Monkey View Post

The 3D Dock was a "top secret feature?" Really? Spaces I can see, but the new Dock? Really?

The 3D Dock is amazing (no kidding). And so are the stacks/fans! Finally no more clutter!

I wonder if Spaces let you run windows in one space and Mac OSX in the other three spaces?
post #29 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by biggsjm View Post

I'm suprised no one's thought about the fact that they are probably "borrowing" those key programmers to help with the update to the iPhone. Supposedly there's a huge update coming alongside leopard.

Its either that, or they have major issues. Is it me or is Leopard probably the lamest update (feature-wise) since OS 8.6 to OS 9. Tons of features! (But none you will actually use)!

It's you.
post #30 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandau View Post

umm, then why release it? why not wait a week or two and let the other developers fix their crap? this release sounds like a Microsoft build philosophy to me.

Why are you dissing 'other developers'? Are you so much better?
post #31 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

Have you guys seen the new Leopard GUI in the WWDC videos? I think Steve has stopped paying attention to the Mac project and the geeks are taking over and turning it in to Linux. We need his simplifying touch and aesthetic judgment on Leopard.

What do you mean?! I love time machine, but I am a bit affraid of the 3D arrows and the tubular things on the right side of the screen. Also, the green flurry (in the middle of the screen) is a bit of a concern

The new Finder is great though, very iTunes like.
post #32 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by donebylee View Post

OMG a buggy beta!!!!!

Apple is teh DOOMED!!!

Sell all your stock now!!!


People already did that yesterday.
post #33 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

I think it's bigger than Tiger. "200 features", but I went through the list and I don't think I've ever needed more than five of them. I think better screen rotation and ease of swapping mouse button order are the two features that I actually use. If I get Leopard, I am sure I'll use ZFS and Time Machine. Maybe the stack feature. I'm not sure if the iTunes-ized Finder is an improvement.

I agree that Leopard is a bigger jump than Tiger. to me, the biggest addition with Tiger was Spotlight. Dashboard is nice, but it basically just expedites my weather-searching. It also ran a bit slower than Panther on my G4 iBook.

Leopard, with Finder+QuickLook+Stacks+Spaces+Time Machine, addresses the more fundamental issue of how we interact with windows and files. To me, that's great since this is honestly one of the weakest points of OS X. Aesthetically, it's also probably the biggest leap in OS X, or maybe on par with Jaguar->Panther.

I'm excited for Leopard and will pre-order it come October (or Jan 08).
post #34 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by acslater017 View Post

I'm excited for Leopard and will pre-order it come October (or Jan 08).

I'll do the same thing I've been doing for years... wait for 6 months for the major bugs to get ironed out, then buy it.

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post #35 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

I'll do the same thing I've been doing for years... wait for 6 months for the major bugs to get ironed out, then buy it.

hmm...smart. but i'm too impatient.
post #36 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by acslater017 View Post

I agree that Leopard is a bigger jump than Tiger. to me, the biggest addition with Tiger was Spotlight. Dashboard is nice, but it basically just expedites my weather-searching. It also ran a bit slower than Panther on my G4 iBook.

Leopard, with Finder+QuickLook+Stacks+Spaces+Time Machine, addresses the more fundamental issue of how we interact with windows and files. To me, that's great since this is honestly one of the weakest points of OS X. Aesthetically, it's also probably the biggest leap in OS X, or maybe on par with Jaguar->Panther.

I'm excited for Leopard and will pre-order it come October (or Jan 08).


Welcome to the boards acslater. Great point. Leopard is a further refinement of what I believe is the best OS on the planet.

I cannot personally see an area that hasn't been touched in Leopard that vexes me in Tiger. The Finder is purportedly faster and doesn't hang with network mount/unmounts. It's a cleaner looking system and Spotlight has gotten more search options and polish.

I chuckle a bit when people state there is nothing they would use. Every OS upgrade has so many tweaks and improvements it's not just about the whizzbang features but about everything. I have a Core Duo...Leopard handles multiple cores better and Mail and Addressbook in Leopard will support the new nsoperation API. I'd like to know what is missing from Leopard. We have accelerated UI rendering now on a dedicated thread. We have Resolution Independence coming.

I'm impatient as well. I'm going to be moving to Leopard the first couple of weeks it is out.
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post #37 of 98
I'm specially interested in any changes to the Address Book...

Does the IM field have any increase in the number of options (ICQ, Jabber, etc)? Is Skype in there now? Grrrrr!

Any other changes?

Funny, I'm less concerned with look - I want usability and productivity tools!

Cheers Daniel
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post #38 of 98
i've had a play around with the new kitty and the features may not be as ooh and wow inducing as dashboard was but some of the newer subtler features in the finder will make any1 who actually uses a mac in a media workflow to appreciate the improvements


the new thumbnail previews are a godsend though i couldn't' find an option to change the window view options (cmd + j) globally - just on a per window basis. So if you want all your thumbnails to be say 256X256 you need to change view options for each window.

Coverflow and quickview will prove invaluable and stacks is very comfortable though most folder will display in grid making the fan out a bit superflous

the use of a downloads folder will help

negative -

finder could be souped up even more- make it more powerful , explorer still kicks its arse in displaying and sorting information. sorting should be better handled in column view and an option to have folders at the top and bottom should be given

the transparent menu is completely crap


on the fence -

the 3d dock grew on me and i found it better than the current one the open application indicator took more time to get used to

the new standard folder icons are a bit sombre

disappointed with a lack of revamp for the system wide font, colour and character palettes they should a) be treated like proper windows with focus
b) apple should adopt the HUD black interface for such palettes



i'm still expecting more drastic ui updates with more matte finishing like itunes' scrollbars and safari 3's jump / popup menu widgets
post #39 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandau View Post

umm, then why release it? why not wait a week or two and let the other developers fix their crap? this release sounds like a Microsoft build philosophy to me.


Don't over react! Keep things in perspective. This is a beta release to developers. It isn't a retail$ beta released to the public like Microsoft does. This is how they "fix their crap."

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post #40 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by frogbat View Post

i've had a play around with the new kitty and the features may not be as ooh and wow inducing as dashboard was but some of the newer subtler features in the finder will make any1 who actually uses a mac in a media workflow to appreciate the improvements


the new thumbnail previews are a godsend though i couldn't' find an option to change the window view options (cmd + j) globally - just on a per window basis. So if you want all your thumbnails to be say 256X256 you need to change view options for each window.

Coverflow and quickview will prove invaluable and stacks is very comfortable though most folder will display in grid making the fan out a bit superflous

the use of a downloads folder will help

negative -

finder could be souped up even more- make it more powerful , explorer still kicks its arse in displaying and sorting information. sorting should be better handled in column view and an option to have folders at the top and bottom should be given

the transparent menu is completely crap


on the fence -

the 3d dock grew on me and i found it better than the current one the open application indicator took more time to get used to

the new standard folder icons are a bit sombre

disappointed with a lack of revamp for the system wide font, colour and character palettes they should a) be treated like proper windows with focus
b) apple should adopt the HUD black interface for such palettes



i'm still expecting more drastic ui updates with more matte finishing like itunes' scrollbars and safari 3's jump / popup menu widgets

Frogbat,

Have you had any time to play around with metadata in Leopard yet? I'm hoping for better support for tagging files and searches based on metadata. Any insight is greaty appreciated.
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