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Notes of interest from Apple's Q307 quarterly conference call

post #1 of 76
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Apple on Wednesday announced its most profitable June quarter ever, and later held a financial conference call with analysts and members of the media. Several notes of interest from the call follow:

The Cupertino-based company said third quarter profits surged 73 percent to $818 million, or $0.92 per diluted share, on sales of $5.41 billion.

Apple's Mac Business

In total, Apple shipped 1.764 million Macs during the quarter, representing 33 percent yearly growth. This included 1,130,000 notebooks and 634,000 desktop systems.

Notebook sales grew 42 percent year-over-year and accounted for 64 percent of Macs sold during the quarter. The sales generated $1.577 billion in revenue.

Desktop sales accounted for just 36 percent of the Macs sold during the quarter, rising significantly from the year-ago quarter in which Apple sold 529,000 units. Desktops accounted for $956 million of quarterly revenue.

In total, Macs and related services represented 60 percent of Apple's third quarter revenues.

Macs grew at 2.5 times IDCs estimated industry growth rate for CPU sales during the quarter.

At the beginning of the quarter Apple was selling Macs in 50 Best Buy electronics stores but expanded to 75 stores by the quarter's end. At the end of the current quarter, the company expects to be in 200 stores. By the end of the calendar year it sees that number ballooning to 300 Best Buy stores.

While Apple would not offer any color on Mac sales as they relate to Best Buy, management said it is very satisfied with the program thus far.

Apple's Music Business

iPod sales and those of music-related services accounted for 40 percent of Apple's third quarter revenues.

Apple shipped 9,815,000 iPods during the quarter, representing 21 percent growth year-over-year, and accounting for $1.57 billion in revenue.

Apple's "Other Music Related Products and Services," which include iTunes and iPod accessories, boosted revenue to $608 million, an increase of 33 percent year-over-year.

Apple ended the quarter within its target range of 4-6 weeks of iPod inventory.

Apple's Consumer Electronics Business

Apple sold 270,000 iPhones during the final 30 hours of the quarter.

The company expects to sell its 1 millionth iPhone by the end of the current quarter, which ends September 29th. By comparison, it took Apple nearly seven quarters to sell its first million iPods.

Apple remains on track to launch iPhone in a few major European countries in the fourth calendar quarter of the year, expanding to other European countries in 2008. The company will make public its European iPhone launch plans a bit later in the current quarter, management said.

For the June quarter, iPhone and Apple TV-related sales combined for $180 million in deferred revenue.

Due to its deferred revenue accounting, recognize revenue from iPhone and iPhone accessories during the final 30 hours of the quarter was just $5 million.

AT&T says it sold more iPhones in the first two days than it did any other wireless communications device in its first month.

Apple will begin to recognize iPhone-related revenue share payments from AT&T during the September quarter but did not recognize any payments from the carrier during the June quarter.

Today, almost all AT&T and Apple stores have iPhone in stock.

iPhone sales were skewed towards the 8GB model during the final 30 hours of the June quarter.

Apple wouldn't say anything about iPhone gross margin. Management even stopped short of saying whether gross margins from the handset were above or below its corporate average.

Apple wouldn't talk about the potential for cheaper iPhones or a broadening of the iPhone line to additional models.

There is "no evidence" of iPod cannibalization from iPhone thus far, management said.

Apple would not break out Apple TV unit sales.

Apple's Retail Business

Apple's retail store revenues for the quarter totaled $915 million, climbing 33 percent from $688 million during the same period in 2006.

Mac sales at Apple retail rose 53 percent to 330,000 units.

During the quarter Apple remodeled 15 stores and opened 8 new stores to end with a total of 185 stores worldwide.

With an average of 180 stores opened during the quarter, average per store revenue was $5.1 million, compared to $4.7 million during the year-ago quarter.

Apple retail stores combined for $184 million in segment profit, which compares to a $122 million profit during the year-ago quarter.

The stores saw a record 21.9 million visitors during the quarter.

Apple currently has 270,000 registered One-to-One members.

Over 50 percent of customers buying Macs at Apple retail stores are new to the Mac platform.

Apple expects to open 12 stores in the September quarter to end the fiscal year with 197 stores. The company has not yet set a target for fiscal 2008 store openings but with have more info on the matter during October's conference call.

From here on out, Apple will begin to measure its retail operating performance the same way it measures the performance of its other operating segments.

Similarly, the company said, AppleCare and .Mac sales will now be recognized over the life of the services.

Apple's Education Sales

Apple saw its best ever quarter for education sales and also set a new quarterly record for Mac sales to education.

Sales of MacBooks were particularly strong with K-12 and higher-education institutions.

Apple's Mac Sales by Region

Apple's sales in the Americas were responsible for $2.68 billion in revenues, a climb of 21 percent year-over-year.

Apple Europe accounted for $1.16 billion in revenues, up 29 percent year-over-year but a decrease of 7 percent compared to the winter 2007 quarter.

Apple Japan, however, slowed its decline. The country represented $258 million in revenues, which was virtually even with the year-ago quarter and compared favorably to an 8 percent year-over-year drop in winter 2007.

Additional Notes

Apple's direct sales accounted for 53 percent of sales compared 49 percent for the year-ago quarter.

The company capitalized $26 million related to software development during the quarter.

Apple is now sitting on $13.8 billion in cash.

Cash flow from operations was over $1.2 billion during the quarter.

Operational expenses for the third quarter were $954 million.

Apple expects the tax rate for the next quarter to be 32 percent.
post #2 of 76
Good summary Kaspar. Peter Oppenheimer and Tim Cook have the CCs down to a science in terms of what they say and don't say. You gotta love it (unless your'e an analyst).
post #3 of 76
Your laptop and desktop sales figures are reversed; Apple sold 1.13M laptops and 637K desktops.
post #4 of 76
Couple of observations, and one question.

Apple Japan seems increasingly like a waste of energy and resources for Apple. I wonder if the company should re-focus its energies elsewhere (e.g., China, India).

A 32% tax rate seems high for a tech company (one would have expected a lower tax rate resulting from credits related to employee option exercises, esp. given how the stock has been doing this past year).

What is "One-to-One"?
post #5 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Couple of observations, and one question.

Apple Japan seems increasingly like a waste of energy and resources for Apple. I wonder if the company should re-focus its energies elsewhere (e.g., China, India).

A 32% tax rate seems high for a tech company (one would have expected a lower tax rate resulting from credits related to employee option exercises, esp. given how the stock has been doing this past year).

What is "One-on-One"?

1) Petite notebook is on the way to help boost Mac sales in Japan.

2) For the last several quarters, Apple's tax rate has been around 32 percent give or take a few percentage points.

3) http://www.apple.com/retail/onetoone/

Best,

K
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post #6 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Apple's "Other Music Related Products and Services," which include iTunes and iPod accessories, boosted revenue to $608 million, an increase of 33 percent year-over-year.
...
Apple sold 270,000 iPhones during the final 30 hours of the quarter.
...
For the June quarter, iPhone and Apple TV-related sales combined for $180 million in deferred revenue.

Due to its deferred revenue accounting, recognize revenue from iPhone and iPhone accessories during the final 30 hours of the quarter was just $5 million.
...
Apple would not break out Apple TV unit sales.
...
[/url][/c]

From the financial statement pdf, there was $20 million in deferred revenue for Apple TV in the March quarter.

I didn't hear the CC but other sites reported that Apple said Apple TV revenue is accounted for in Other Music Related Products and Services, and that Apple also said the $5 million in iPhone revenue was from accessories. Is that correct? (I'll listen later tonight when the playback is available.)

Given all of the above information, can we roughly figure out the Apple TV unit sales?
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post #7 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Couple of observations, and one question.

Apple Japan seems increasingly like a waste of energy and resources for Apple. I wonder if the company should re-focus its energies elsewhere (e.g., China, India).

Apple couldn't sell in China and India as those markets are flooded with ~$500 pirated software laptops. They can only sell in high per capita GDP places like Japan, South Korea, Singapore, etc

Furthermore Apple Japan is sucking out loud because Apple has been steadfastidly ignoring Apple Japan.

On everything from TV tuners to advertisements, size of notebooks to Macworld Tokyo. Not to mention the iPhone, which could do gangbusters, but will require a great deal of additional hardware/software functionality.

Note please that not only is Japan easily half the size of the United States economically, but it is also way more focused on both tiny notebooks, TV tuner included desktops (as there's not enough room for both TVs and large desktop computers), andespeciallyadvanced mobile phones.

Japan used to be Apple's number two market and if they spent some TLC on it, that could easily be the case again. Not least because of a Japanese adapted iPhone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasper View Post

1) Petite notebook is on the way to help boost Mac sales in Japan.

Did anybody at Apple actually say so, or this just the ongoing rumour?

'Cause I'd buy one, and it would do great in Asia (if Apple Japan learns how to do advertising) but I'm thinking you're just talking about the ongoing rumour rather then Apple's conference call.

If I'm wrong though, great .
post #8 of 76
CPU shipments were 4x IDC in the US and 2.5X internationally.

A correction needed in your summary of CC
post #9 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Electric Monk View Post

... Apple Japan is sucking out loud because Apple has been steadfastidly ignoring Apple Japan.

In what way is Apple ignoring Japan? Could you provide some examples?

Is it doing something less there than it does with other markets? Or, are you suggesting it should do more there than it does in other markets, e.g., Europe (in which case, it may just not be worth the added costs)?
post #10 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Electric Monk View Post

Apple couldn't sell in China and India as those markets are flooded with ~$500 pirated software laptops. They can only sell in high per capita GDP places like Japan, South Korea, Singapore, etc…

Furthermore Apple Japan is sucking out loud because Apple has been steadfastidly ignoring Apple Japan.

On everything from TV tuners to advertisements, size of notebooks to Macworld Tokyo. Not to mention the iPhone, which could do gangbusters, but will require a great deal of additional hardware/software functionality.

Note please that not only is Japan easily half the size of the United States economically, but it is also way more focused on both tiny notebooks, TV tuner included desktops (as there's not enough room for both TVs and large desktop computers), and—especially—advanced mobile phones.

Japan used to be Apple's number two market and if they spent some TLC on it, that could easily be the case again. Not least because of a Japanese adapted iPhone.



Did anybody at Apple actually say so, or this just the ongoing rumour?

'Cause I'd buy one, and it would do great in Asia (if Apple Japan learns how to do advertising) but I'm thinking you're just talking about the ongoing rumour rather then Apple's conference call.

If I'm wrong though, great .

Thee was no mention on the CC of an ultralight.I was listening carefully because I lust for one.
post #11 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

In what way is Apple ignoring Japan? Could you provide some examples?

Is it doing something less there than it does with other markets? Or, are you suggesting it should do more there than it does in other markets, e.g., Europe (in which case, it may just not be worth the added costs)?

Apple is known for ignoring "certain" things/markets/customers sometimes, but they are also known to surprise us from time to time.

It is well know that the Japanese market likes (1) ultraportables and (2) communication devices. In the case of the telecom devices, I think that Apple needs to meet all the requirements/specs needed there for the iPhone to be successful, so it will take sometime for them to get there. But for the ultraportable, they should already know that it is also a well-liked/selling product everywhere in the world, so they should be working on it, also if the 13" form factor was small enough, sales in Japan would have grown as well as anywhere else and this is obviously not the case...

On another note, am I the only one that has noticed that Apple will be "transitioning two products" next quarter that that it will cause (in part) a decrease of the margins from a whooping 36% this quarter to a forecasted 29.5% (more close to Apple's regular margins)?

We know/suppose that the iMac is being redesigned and that it should be available next month, but what about the 2nd product? Could it be the Mac mini? the iPod (video)? or the Mac Pro? They surely were not talking about displays or keyboards! IMO, transition means something more important than just a speedbump/storagebump. What do you think?
post #12 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjteix View Post

It is well know that the Japanese market likes (1) ultraportables and (2) communication devices. In the case of the telecom devices, I think that Apple needs to meet all the requirements/specs needed there for the iPhone to be successful, so it will take sometime for them to get there. But for the ultraportable, they should already know that it is also a well-liked/selling product everywhere in the world, so they should be working on it, also if the 13" form factor was small enough, sales in Japan would have grown as well as anywhere else and this is obviously not the case...

It sounds to me like you are suggesting Apple spend a lot of money and time catering to Japan's special needs!

If the consumers there do not like Apple's menu of offerings -- and it's perfectly legitimate and reasonable that they do not -- they should buy something else. It is just that the extra costs, and hence lower margins, involved in doing something so specific for the Japanese market may not be worth it for Apple. I am speculating that Apple intends do something tailored to Japan with the iPhone, but I also get the sense that it does not seem to be in a hurry to do so (perhaps rightly so).

Btw, how does Japan's per-capita PC consumption compare to that of a country such as the US?
post #13 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Similarly, the company said, AppleCare and .Mac sales will now be recognized over the life of the services.


What does this mean?
post #14 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

It sounds to me like you are suggesting Apple spend a lot of money and time catering to Japan's special needs!

If the consumers there do not like Apple's menu of offerings -- and it's perfectly legitimate and reasonable that they do not -- they should buy something else. It is just that the extra costs, and hence lower margins, involved in doing something so specific for the Japanese market may not be worth it for Apple. I am speculating that Apple intends do something tailored to Japan with the iPhone, but I also get the sense that it does not seem to be in a hurry to do so (perhaps rightly so).

Btw, how does Japan's per-capita PC consumption compare to that of a country such as the US?

I agree with mostly writing off Japan as a market for Apple, other than for future iPhone business.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #15 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

It sounds to me like you are suggesting Apple spend a lot of money and time catering to Japan's special needs!

If the consumers there do not like Apple's menu of offerings -- and it's perfectly legitimate and reasonable that they do not -- they should buy something else. It is just that the extra costs, and hence lower margins, involved in doing something so specific for the Japanese market may not be worth it for Apple. I am speculating that Apple intends do something tailored to Japan with the iPhone, but I also get the sense that it does not seem to be in a hurry to do so (perhaps rightly so).

Btw, how does Japan's per-capita PC consumption compare to that of a country such as the US?

No, I am suggesting that ultraportables are one of the favorite form factors in Japan as well as in other countries (a lot of people, in the US too, are waiting/willing to buy a smaller MB/MBP) so it is not specific to Japan, but I believe it is more apparent in Japan. Since this kind of product is of interest for lots of people and critical for Japan, Apple shouldn't wait too long to do it. I am certainly not asking for a specific product for Japan.

And we agree for the iPhone, Apple needs to be even more careful there because they already have advanced products/services and infrastructures, it will be tougher there.
post #16 of 76
I bought 10,000 $ worth of August 155 calls yesterday (when they were only $ 145 per contract), ater hours trading shows aapl at 150. When option trading begins tommorrow I wiil triple my money. +30,000 $$ in 48 hours. Why bother buying stocks and wait a year or two to triple your money? I at least double my invested cash once every month.
post #17 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave K. View Post

What does this mean?

It means, that say you buy a 3 year AppleCare pack, Apple will list the income from that over the next 3 years, i.e. 1/12 of it for each quarter.

They currently do this for the iPhone, as it allows them to legally add features to it after it has been released. Essentially this means that all the iPhone income - from the initial sales and the kickbacks they get from AT&T will be like a subscription - spread over the (2?) year assumed life of the product.

This has the benefit for APPL of allowing them to hide actual sales of iPhones and AppleCare etc, by just stating the income for the quarter (from which it is impossible to really know how many actual units were sold). It also provides a more consistent cash flow (or the appearance of it anyway).
post #18 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by eAi View Post

.... provides a more consistent cash flow (or the appearance of it anyway).

post #19 of 76
Quote:
Apple wouldn't say anything about iPhone gross margin. Management even stopped short of saying whether gross margins from the handset were above or below its corporate average.

Apple wouldn't talk about the potential for cheaper iPhones or a broadening of the iPhone line to additional models.

There is "no evidence" of iPod cannibalization from iPhone thus far, management said.

Apple would not break out Apple TV unit sales.


Apple is the ever secretive company. I can't believe that anyone, analyst or stockholder, is amused. Certainly, this must hold down the stock as no one likes to be kept in the dark while being asked to make a leap of faith and pay good money.
post #20 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by floribus View Post

I bought 10,000 $ worth of August 155 calls yesterday (when they were only $ 145 per contract), ater hours trading shows aapl at 150. When option trading begins tommorrow I wiil triple my money. +30,000 $$ in 48 hours. Why bother buying stocks and wait a year or two to triple your money? I at least double my invested cash once every month.

what?

Edit: nevermind...

You bought calls that will have tripled in value when option trading opens tomorrow. How odd...

I never really thought about leveraging a smaller amount of money this way...
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post #21 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by floribus View Post

I bought 10,000 $ worth of August 155 calls yesterday (when they were only $ 145 per contract), ater hours trading shows aapl at 150. When option trading begins tommorrow I wiil triple my money. +30,000 $$ in 48 hours. Why bother buying stocks and wait a year or two to triple your money? I at least double my invested cash once every month.

I am trying to learn options trading. Can you explain more in detail what you bought, how you bought it and how exactly would you attain that much of a profit?

Thank You in advance
post #22 of 76
Quote:
Apple couldn't sell in China and India as those markets are flooded with ~$500 pirated software laptops. They can only sell in high per capita GDP places like Japan, South Korea, Singapore, etc

Furthermore Apple Japan is sucking out loud because Apple has been steadfastidly ignoring Apple Japan.

On everything from TV tuners to advertisements, size of notebooks to Macworld Tokyo. Not to mention the iPhone, which could do gangbusters, but will require a great deal of additional hardware/software functionality.

Note please that not only is Japan easily half the size of the United States economically, but it is also way more focused on both tiny notebooks, TV tuner included desktops (as there's not enough room for both TVs and large desktop computers), andespeciallyadvanced mobile phones.

Japan used to be Apple's number two market and if they spent some TLC on it, that could easily be the case again. Not least because of a Japanese adapted iPhone.


The latest trend in Japan is to have digital TV reception on all kinds of electronic and home appliances. For instance, you can't find a cell phone which wouldn't allow TV viewing.

The iPhone fits the profile of Apple hardware, overpriced, outdated technology, defective design and, often, defective parts. The iPhone doesn't stand a chance in Japan.

Japanese consumers demand value for money, i.e. near perfection quality for a low or reasonable price.
post #23 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by g5man View Post

I am trying to learn options trading. Can you explain more in detail what you bought, how you bought it and how exactly would you attain that much of a profit?

Thank You in advance

Go to Optionxpress.com or Yahoo for an options primer. Then go to Yahoo's option site to see the costs of AAPL options at different stike prices. Option trading is not simple but quite lucrative when you know what you're doing and most importantly, you're right about the direction of the stock, up or down.
post #24 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by ouragan View Post

Apple is the ever secretive company. I can't believe that anyone, analyst or stockholder, is amused. Certainly, this must hold down the stock as no one likes to be kept in the dark while being asked to make a leap of faith and pay good money.

AAPl has always been "secretive". Go back to the CC archives and listen. It frustrates the analysts no end but, in the modern AAPL age, the analyst know the company delivers and that it is the Master of UPOD. It's a cat and mouse game which will continue on in the Jobs era. One take away for me in today's CC is this--they said several times that they hope to announce the one-millionth iPhone sold on the Oct.07 CC. I take this to mean that they are very close to one million sold right now and come the next CC, they will state that they have sold 1.x million iPhones.
post #25 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by g5man View Post

I am trying to learn options trading. Can you explain more in detail what you bought, how you bought it and how exactly would you attain that much of a profit?

Thank You in advance

-YOU SHOULD BE QUICK WITH #'S
-first you need 5000$ and get a margin/options acct. with an online disc brkr.
-1st thing most folks don't understand is that 95% of all contracts are NEVER exercised!!!
-so you could decide to purchase some contracts that expire in August with a 155 strike price trading at $1.45 (a contract is always batches of one hundred) , so 1.45 x 100 = 145.00/contract.
--lets say you want to buy 10 contracts , that would be 10 x 145=1,450
-to purchase these online you would look up the symbol for aug 155 calls
- then enter 'buy to open' 10 contracts at the market or you can do a limit order (just like stocks)
-lets say the next day it goes up 7or 8 dollars , now you would see that each contract is now trading for around 3.00
-I usually buy current contracts or the following month// other wise too much time value
-out of the money puts and calls make you the most $$$. but it is very risky!!
-So basically when i see the stock go up 5-6% i'll sell (you would do this by entering 'sell to close' 10 Aug 155 calls( or however many you want to sell)
-Many people think that the stock price has to be above the strike price, big misconception.
-the stock could be at 143 (12 below your strike price of 155)and you would still be able to sell it instantly doubling your cash
-look at amazon (amzn) aug 80 calls. you can go on yahoo fin. if you are unable to see w/ your broker. Those people octipled and decipled their investments in one day
sorry i'm not the best at explaing things , and i suck at typing.
-but i can tell you that i just started doing this 3 months ago today (aapl's last earnings) with 5000 $ that went down to 1800 after trial and error (took me a week), now I'm up to 35k + tommorrow's $$$ profit.
-ONLY DO IT WITH A STOCK YOU ARE 100% ON, EITHER UP(CALLS) OR DOWN (PUTS) , OTHER WISE YOU MAY LOOSE IT ALL!
- THIS IS THE ONLY ONE I TRADE OPTIONS WITH.
-BUY SOME BOOKS, TOO MUCH 2 EXPLAIN, OBVIOUSLY..........
post #26 of 76
What I don't get is this:

270,000 iPhones this quarter at $499 each, makes a nice revenue:
270,000x$499 = $134,730,000

Deferred over 24 months (=8 quarters), for the current quarter the revenue is:
$134,730,000/8 = $16,841,250

However, Apple only posted $5,000,000.
Where is the rest? Said payments from AT&T?
Am I missing something?
post #27 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by ak1808 View Post

What I don't get is this:

270,000 iPhones this quarter at $499 each, makes a nice revenue:
270,000x$499 = $134,730,000

Deferred over 24 months (=8 quarters), for the current quarter the revenue is:
$134,730,000/8 = $16,841,250

However, Apple only posted $5,000,000.
Where is the rest? Said payments from AT&T?
Am I missing something?

It could be the difference between Shipped/Sold/Paid for
- i.e. if they ship to AT & T, they won't get paid until sometime after the ship/invoice date
- so, they haven't received the revenue for those units yet
- the $5m could just be for accessories sold at Apple Stores.

- just a guess!
post #28 of 76
Apple needs to adapt to market conditions in Japan because the entire country certainly isn't going to change for Apple.

Western products succeeding in Japan isn't unheard of or impossible. Half of Louis Vuitton sales are from Japan/Japanese consumers. Starbucks, McDonalds and western movies and music have their place in Japanese society. That's because Japanese attitudes towards those types of things don't really perfectly match the western offerings. No Japanese company can truly design something like Louis Vuitton, and McDonalds and Starbucks are different enough from typical Japanese fast food chains to have its niche in Japanese society. Western movies and music also tend to be different from Japanese styles.

Apple on the other hand has TONS of competition from domestic Japanese companies that clearly know their own people's tastes and habits better than Apple does. Panasonic, Sony, Toshiba; they all make products that cater to Japan's market AND the American market. But what Apple does is literally shoehorn the same products into Japan's market. Now those companies are Japanese, but Japanese products can perform poorly in Japan as well. Look at the PlayStation 3.

The Japanese are less forgiving of omissions of crucial features Americans typically shrug off. No TV tuner in your laptops or the Cinema Displays? No sale. The iPhone will not impress a Japanese consumer. Do you expect a Japanese consumer to spend tons of money on an Apple TV when the Japanese iTunes store doesn't even have any movies yet? Who in Japan has a home big enough for a Mac Pro?

This isn't rocket science. If Apple wants to succeed in Japan, they have to work harder. Their offerings are designed for westerners in mind, and perform poorly in the eyes of Japanese consumers who have many options to choose from. It's ironic, but Nintendo's reemerged as the leader of gaming by following Apple's model for design. I think Apple needs to follow Nintendo's lead in offering content attractive to the Japanese consumer. Nintendo made the DS the iPod of Japan (as a phenomena) because it offered those Brain Training titles that millions of Japanese bought into. Apple can do something similar with their products if they put their effort into it.

Is it worth it? For a market as big as Japan, yes.
post #29 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by FireEmblemPride View Post

Apple needs to adapt to market conditions in Japan because the entire country certainly isn't going to change for Apple.

Western products succeeding in Japan isn't unheard of or impossible. Half of Louis Vuitton sales are from Japan/Japanese consumers. Starbucks, McDonalds and western movies and music have their place in Japanese society. That's because Japanese attitudes towards those types of things don't really perfectly match the western offerings. No Japanese company can truly design something like Louis Vuitton, and McDonalds and Starbucks are different enough from typical Japanese fast food chains to have its niche in Japanese society. Western movies and music also tend to be different from Japanese styles.

Apple on the other hand has TONS of competition from domestic Japanese companies that clearly know their own people's tastes and habits better than Apple does. Panasonic, Sony, Toshiba; they all make products that cater to Japan's market AND the American market. But what Apple does is literally shoehorn the same products into Japan's market. Now those companies are Japanese, but Japanese products can perform poorly in Japan as well. Look at the PlayStation 3.

The Japanese are less forgiving of omissions of crucial features Americans typically shrug off. No TV tuner in your laptops or the Cinema Displays? No sale. The iPhone will not impress a Japanese consumer. Do you expect a Japanese consumer to spend tons of money on an Apple TV when the Japanese iTunes store doesn't even have any movies yet? Who in Japan has a home big enough for a Mac Pro?

This isn't rocket science. If Apple wants to succeed in Japan, they have to work harder. Their offerings are designed for westerners in mind, and perform poorly in the eyes of Japanese consumers who have many options to choose from. It's ironic, but Nintendo's reemerged as the leader of gaming by following Apple's model for design. I think Apple needs to follow Nintendo's lead in offering content attractive to the Japanese consumer. Nintendo made the DS the iPod of Japan (as a phenomena) because it offered those Brain Training titles that millions of Japanese bought into. Apple can do something similar with their products if they put their effort into it.

Is it worth it? For a market as big as Japan, yes.

You make some good points. Do a search on AI member ElectricMonk. He has laid out in very articulate fashion, how AAPL can succeed in Japan.
post #30 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by ak1808 View Post

Deferred over 24 months (=8 quarters), for the current quarter the revenue is: $134,730,000/8 = $16,841,250 However, Apple only posted $5,000,000.
Where is the rest? Said payments from AT&T?
Am I missing something?

Could it be that Apple is deferring the income from the iPhone over the life of the contract IT has with AT&T and not the two year contract that the iPhone buyer has with AT&T? If thats the case then given the Apple / AT&T contract is what 5 years? (IIRC) then the number of quarters would be 20... but that really doesn't make sense because how would a phone be handled in the last year or so of the Apple/AT&T contract?

While it's a screwy idea.... it does make the numbers closer to accurate...

500*270000 = 135M / 20 quarters = 6.75M

Dave
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post #31 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by FireEmblemPride View Post


Is it worth it? For a market as big as Japan, yes.

But Japan is massively protectionist.

Non-Japanese companies have to compete on a very uneven playing field. With one arm tied behind their back. With a different set of rules.

I am not convinced it *is* worth the effort. It's not exactly the most dynamic economy on the planet.

C.
post #32 of 76
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ak1808
What I don't get is this:

270,000 iPhones this quarter at $499 each, makes a nice revenue:
270,000x$499 = $134,730,000

Deferred over 24 months (=8 quarters), for the current quarter the revenue is:
$134,730,000/8 = $16,841,250

However, Apple only posted $5,000,000.
Where is the rest? Said payments from AT&T?
Am I missing something?


It could be the difference between Shipped/Sold/Paid for
- i.e. if they ship to AT & T, they won't get paid until sometime after the ship/invoice date
- so, they haven't received the revenue for those units yet
- the $5m could just be for accessories sold at Apple Stores.

- just a guess!


No, doubt it, the quarter report would be based on shipped and invoiced goods, payment is not important, it is what went through the books last quarter that counts.

So the numbers do not add up and i cannot believe that there are people on this site who have taken the 270k figure and already turned it into 500k after Sundays trading!! Amazing ;-)

So the first thing is important people, all handsets that were sitting unsold in AT&T stores on are counted in this figure, along with all phones that were on route to AT&T stores too. So that 270k figure was not necessarily the amount of phones bought by real customers. And many of the phones sold in AT&T stores after the close of the quarter are phones that have already been accounted for.

Also what the headlines seemed to have missed is that the 270k figure is for IPHONES AND ACCESSORIES, not just iPhones. That means that even if one in five customers bought car charger or a case or a headphone jack or anything else along with their phone then the actuall phones sold is only 220k, if two in five people bought something else then that figure becomes 170k!! And that still includes the phones on the shelf.

Say an average price of $545 per sale, 270k phones would result in $6,131.250 per month bookable revenue, the fact that the recorded revenue was $5m including accessories shows that 270k units sold was not just phones.


EDIT: You have probably realised why your numbers were way over, i was under the opinion that Apple were booking the iPhone revenue on a monthly basis not quarterly, phone bills are paid monthly after all. This would make last quarter a single months revenue.
post #33 of 76
Not that I care much for this discussion - but Oppenheimer clarified that 270K units were sold-through phones.

Your accessory point is interesting, but perhaps the $5M figure is because phones sold though AT&T stores show a lower revenue per unit?
post #34 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by ak1808 View Post

What I don't get is this:

270,000 iPhones this quarter at $499 each, makes a nice revenue:
270,000x$499 = $134,730,000

Deferred over 24 months (=8 quarters), for the current quarter the revenue is:
$134,730,000/8 = $16,841,250

However, Apple only posted $5,000,000.
Where is the rest? Said payments from AT&T?
Am I missing something?

Most likely they calculated 30 hours over 8 quarters.
270,000 times $600 = 162 MM
2 years times 365 days times 24 hours = 17520 hours
$162 MM divided by 17520 hours times 30 hours = $277,395
post #35 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

It sounds to me like you are suggesting Apple spend a lot of money and time catering to Japan's special needs!

If the consumers there do not like Apple's menu of offerings -- and it's perfectly legitimate and reasonable that they do not -- they should buy something else. It is just that the extra costs, and hence lower margins, involved in doing something so specific for the Japanese market may not be worth it for Apple. I am speculating that Apple intends do something tailored to Japan with the iPhone, but I also get the sense that it does not seem to be in a hurry to do so (perhaps rightly so).

Btw, how does Japan's per-capita PC consumption compare to that of a country such as the US?

I think it's lower, but I also think that the per-unit cost is a lot higher.

Something like an ultralight wouldn't be a Japan-only product though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

In what way is Apple ignoring Japan? Could you provide some examples?

Is it doing something less there than it does with other markets? Or, are you suggesting it should do more there than it does in other markets, e.g., Europe (in which case, it may just not be worth the added costs)?

Bergermeister says that Apple Japan's service is horrible, that much of the staff he comes in contact with just don't understand Apple. He and Umijin can probably explain better.
post #36 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniphage View Post

But Japan is massively protectionist.

Non-Japanese companies have to compete on a very uneven playing field. With one arm tied behind their back. With a different set of rules.

I am not convinced it *is* worth the effort. It's not exactly the most dynamic economy on the planet.

There was a time when Macs had a higher computer market share in Japan than they did in the US, but somewhere along the line, they lost their mojo. I really don't know anything about this uneven playing field, I've heard claims but never really found whether it's true.
post #37 of 76
Quote:
The iPhone fits the profile of Apple hardware, overpriced, outdated technology, defective design and, often, defective parts. The iPhone doesn't stand a chance in Japan.

By what measurement is Apple hardware over priced, outdated, or defective. Especially compared to any other technology.

Quote:
Japanese consumers demand value for money, i.e. near perfection quality for a low or reasonable price.

Is this a joke. Japanese UI design is horrible.
post #38 of 76
Topic: 270.000 iPhones, only 5 Million$?
Hey, thank you all for your interesting posts!!

So to collect:
- calculated only 1/24, because of 24 months (but it still doesn't fit)
- calculated based on 30 hours in the quarters (fits pretty well)
- excludes money that AT&T still has to pay
- includes accessoires, which sell at lower price points (CC contradicts that!)

So basically we don't know, and just have to trust Apple's accounting.
I don't get that: Why didn't the analysts fry them a bit on this issue?
Why is a public company allowed to post such obscure numbers?

It's not that I don't trust them, but I'm not surprised Enron happend - at all!
post #39 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by ak1808 View Post

Topic: 270.000 iPhones, only 5 Million$?
Hey, thank you all for your interesting posts!!

So to collect:
- calculated only 1/24, because of 24 months (but it still doesn't fit)
- calculated based on 30 hours in the quarters (fits pretty well)
- excludes money that AT&T still has to pay
- includes accessoires, which sell at lower price points (CC contradicts that!)

So basically we don't know, and just have to trust Apple's accounting.
I don't get that: Why didn't the analysts fry them a bit on this issue?
Why is a public company allowed to post such obscure numbers?

It's not that I don't trust them, but I'm not surprised Enron happend - at all!

You're right - it does seem like a very obscure way to try to account for a product
- I think they want to hide how much of a kick-back AT&T are giving them
post #40 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by floribus View Post

-YOU SHOULD BE QUICK WITH #'S
-first you need 5000$ and get a margin/options acct. with an online disc brkr.
-1st thing most folks don't understand is that 95% of all contracts are NEVER exercised!!!
-so you could decide to purchase some contracts that expire in August with a 155 strike price trading at $1.45 (a contract is always batches of one hundred) , so 1.45 x 100 = 145.00/contract.
--lets say you want to buy 10 contracts , that would be 10 x 145=1,450
-to purchase these online you would look up the symbol for aug 155 calls
- then enter 'buy to open' 10 contracts at the market or you can do a limit order (just like stocks)
-lets say the next day it goes up 7or 8 dollars , now you would see that each contract is now trading for around 3.00
-I usually buy current contracts or the following month// other wise too much time value
-out of the money puts and calls make you the most $$$. but it is very risky!!
-So basically when i see the stock go up 5-6% i'll sell (you would do this by entering 'sell to close' 10 Aug 155 calls( or however many you want to sell)
-Many people think that the stock price has to be above the strike price, big misconception.
-the stock could be at 143 (12 below your strike price of 155)and you would still be able to sell it instantly doubling your cash
-look at amazon (amzn) aug 80 calls. you can go on yahoo fin. if you are unable to see w/ your broker. Those people octipled and decipled their investments in one day
sorry i'm not the best at explaing things , and i suck at typing.
-but i can tell you that i just started doing this 3 months ago today (aapl's last earnings) with 5000 $ that went down to 1800 after trial and error (took me a week), now I'm up to 35k + tommorrow's $$$ profit.
-ONLY DO IT WITH A STOCK YOU ARE 100% ON, EITHER UP(CALLS) OR DOWN (PUTS) , OTHER WISE YOU MAY LOOSE IT ALL!
- THIS IS THE ONLY ONE I TRADE OPTIONS WITH.
-BUY SOME BOOKS, TOO MUCH 2 EXPLAIN, OBVIOUSLY..........

Thank you for the quick lesson. I am going to try to learn more about it.

I have made as much as 1K in one day on day trading with aapl, but I am buying and selling 150K worth of stock. Too much risk, hence I want to look into options.

I know aapl will continue to limb for the next 4 years.
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