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Purported photos of new iMac keyboard stir debate - Page 6

post #201 of 245
Holy smokes! I'm coming into this conversation a little late, but can't believe the swirl on this keyboard... As a former product manager, maybe I can lend something to this discussion, especially for those who have not contributed to a manufacturing process... So here's my lengthy diatribe:

First, if you look closely at the pictures, there is virtually no way that this was pulled together as a Photoshop mockup -- it would have taken much less time to build one from scratch. Therefore, the thing is likely real.

Next, the keyboard could be one of the following:

a. Cosmetic Mock-up: A non-functioning prototype used to establish help validate the basic design premise and, specifically, the look and feel of the thing. It is one thing to work up a conceptual design on paper or in a CAD system. It's another thing entirely to actually be able to feel the concept in your hand. Manufacturing of mock-ups is very easy using CAD/CAM (a CNC mill would be able to crank out the aluminum substrate in a matter of minutes), along with the application of "dummy keys" scavenged from the Macbook manufacturing process. Note: there may be many different versions of a keyboard, each different (straight vs. ergo, blue vs. green, etc), each being made to test the design concepts.

b. Functional prototype: A functional prototype may or may not have the cosmetics of a final prototype or the final candidate release of the product, but it would help to establish the mechanical attributes of the keyboard. In this case, the key placements, angle of keyboard, location of the USB port, the "feel and response" of the keyboard, etc.

c. Candidate release or prototype: There are many names for the prototype in this stage of development, but the concept is the same: this is the near final manifestation of the keyboard, ready for manufacturing. This unit might require some final tweaking before being submitted to manufacturing, but it wouldn't be much. For instance, I noticed a huge argument over the Apple logo on the Option key... This would be one of the things that might be getting worked out in the final phase of engineering, and has a great deal to do with the design team's efforts to nail down the aesthetics. This stage also helps the manufacturer ensure that their tooling and manufacturing processes are nailed down before they start manufacturing millions of these things...

d. Final manufacturing release: This is the product that you will find on the counter of your friendly Apple Store, once the thing is released. It doesn't imply that this will be the last iteration -- there may be additional changes to the keyboard, and those will be tracked under separate release branches.

Given the labeling on the back of the keyboard, I'm guessing that this unit is a late-stage functional prototype, or an early-stage candidate release. The keyboard looks very well defined and refined, and the fact that it states that it is not a cosmetic unit (a non-functional unit) means that that stage is now behind them. Apple and their manufacturing contractor probably constructed hundreds of these prototypes to ensure that they have all aspects of the keyboard buttoned up. This may not be the absolute final manifestation of the keyboard, but I'd be willing to bet that it isn't that far off from what we'll see in a week or two.

As far as the design, I think it is a stunning keyboard, and I think that Ives & Co. have done a superlative job in the design. They are known for their minimalist aesthetic (of which I am a huge fan), and I look forward to having one on my desk. As far as ergonomics are concerned, after 25 years of pounding away on non-ergo keyboards, my wrists are appropriately seasoned for a standard keyboard construct. One of the posters mentioned that this keyboard isn't at the right angle, and that flat is not good. With hundreds of millions of laptops in circulation, each with a flat keyboard, I'm not sure I get the point that the poster was making... If nothing, by consolidating the breadth of components down to a minimum across all platforms, Apple will continue to improve their margins and manufacturing process; not a bad thing with ever increasing competition...
post #202 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenRoethig View Post

ALT is called option on the Mac.

Besides the key says 'alt' too.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of a rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of a rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #203 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by DHagan4755 View Post

Does anyone think that a new mouse will accompany this new keyboard?

God I hope so.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of a rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of a rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #204 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

God I hope so.

Me too, The basic design of the MM goes back to the G4 Pro Mouse, and has been modified and added too so much that I cant see what they can do with it any more. Apart from that its been so much trouble for that scroll wheel sticking and getting dirty, with no way of opening up the mouse to clean it. I had an MM, and took it back because I got the 'won't scroll up' problem so much, got a Logitech MX1000 instead and still got it, no complaints.
post #205 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigE

Given the labeling on the back of the keyboard, I'm guessing that this unit is a late-stage functional prototype, or an early-stage candidate release. The keyboard looks very well defined and refined, and the fact that it states that it is not a cosmetic unit (a non-functional unit) means that that stage is now behind them. Apple and their manufacturing contractor probably constructed hundreds of these prototypes to ensure that they have all aspects of the keyboard buttoned up. This may not be the absolute final manifestation of the keyboard, but I'd be willing to bet that it isn't that far off from what we'll see in a week or two.

As far as the design, I think it is a stunning keyboard, and I think that Ives & Co. have done a superlative job in the design. They are known for their minimalist aesthetic (of which I am a huge fan), and I look forward to having one on my desk. As far as ergonomics are concerned, after 25 years of pounding away on non-ergo keyboards, my wrists are appropriately seasoned for a standard keyboard construct. One of the posters mentioned that this keyboard isn't at the right angle, and that flat is not good. With hundreds of millions of laptops in circulation, each with a flat keyboard, I'm not sure I get the point that the poster was making... If nothing, by consolidating the breadth of components down to a minimum across all platforms, Apple will continue to improve their margins and manufacturing process; not a bad thing with ever increasing competition...

And the winner is!! Thank you for your sanity, and I totally agree. I think the one that comes with the new iMac will either be very like or the exact same design as this one. And furthermore, that cm ridge on the back would ensure that it would sit up at a nice 10º in your desk, and not flatly.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of a rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of a rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #206 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

God I hope so.

I gave up on the Apple mouse a long time ago in favor of a dedicated three button Logitech mouse. I'm begining to wonder if I will have to give up on the keyboard as well. I don't wan't a cramped small keyboard to use with my desktop computer.
post #207 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajprice View Post

Me too, The basic design of the MM goes back to the G4 Pro Mouse, and has been modified and added too so much that I cant see what they can do with it any more. Apart from that its been so much trouble for that scroll wheel sticking and getting dirty, with no way of opening up the mouse to clean it. I had an MM, and took it back because I got the 'won't scroll up' problem so much, got a Logitech MX1000 instead and still got it, no complaints.

I had taken my MM apart to clean in twice when I called Apple to complain, they sent me on a new one. That new one (and my hands are no oilier or dirtier than the average computer user) got stuck within two weeks, so I called them again. They sent me one another new one, and when that showed signs of giving way I bought a Logitech MX Rev. It's a great, but ugly mouse. Not ugly by normal standards, but by Apple's design standards. Apple can't make mice, thus far.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of a rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of a rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #208 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by eAi View Post

I've never understood why the "Apple" key is called the Command key and the "Alt" key is called Option... Its just plain confusing. I have to teach people to use Macs, and I generally use Apple, and Alt (as that's easy), but then the manuals and websites use Command and Option which just confuses everyone. Why can't keys be labelled what they're called, or called what they're labelled!

They are labeled both option and alt to assist those using the Mac with Windows or switchers used to the name "alt" as well as the plain fact this keyboard could actually be hooked up to a Windows machine, perhaps via a KVM switch between a PC and a Mac mini.
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post #209 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by DHagan4755 View Post

Does anyone think that a new mouse will accompany this new keyboard?

I hope so.
post #210 of 245
Apple's mice are rather sensitive to static discharges. You don't see them advertised much anymore, but there used to be antistatic keyboard mats and slender conductive strips one could apply to the leading edge of the older keyboards to dissipate a static charge. There were power controllers with a metal plate with the warning to touch it before using the computer.

Someone else pointed out the spacing between the function keys allowed the use of a template. that was also popular back in the day of the Apple Extended Keyboard and somewhat smaller and more adjustable Apple Extended Keyboard II. They had a large back shelf to hold such templates. This keyboard does not support much in the way beyond the function keys, so templates are still going to be a thing of the past with this keyboard.

Actually some ham fisted or pudgy fingered users prefer the MacBook style keys and their spacing, as they tend to not press two keys at a time, where the MacBook Pro style keys, as they almost touch, are subject to that problem, for these users. Desktop style keytops are tapered to help avoid this problem. They also tend to have convex tops to help touch typists rest their fingertips on the keys.

The F1 and F2 buttons primary symbols show brightness up and down symbols, representing the screen brightness. Apple uses different symbols on the MacBook Pro's keyboard to show keyboard brightness up and down. That would imply that this keyboard does not have any backlighting nor "ground effects" lighting around it's edge.

I do hope that it finally supports USB 2.0 on it's Accessory USB ports left and right. The current USB 1.1 support is rather a pain. On that issue, I prefer them on the sides to the current keyboard's positions flanking the attached USB cable. Perhaps of the USB ports were facing rearward but closer to the left and right edges would make things easier for connected a scanner or printer, something that doesn't change often. Connected a flash drive rearward is awkward.

About the loss of the help key in favor of the fn key - I see too many times people, including myself, hitting the help key when aiming sloppily for the delete key. This takes quite a while to invoke the help function of various applications. Hopefully you don't need help so often you need a dedicated key, the Help menu should suffice. Those multimedia keyboard with a bunch of special keys to launch your e-mail and browser etc are considerably deeper, and Apple wants to go with a streamlined look.

The power key on old keyboards was great, but it required the computer to draw power all the time in order to sense it's keypress. With the growing concern for electronic equipment drawing power even when outwardly "off," Apple dropped that from their line. The power button remained for a time, which was still partly functional as it could turn off, after confirmation, your computer. During this time, Apple's monitors were connected via a ADC connector and you could power up your computer without reaching under the desk, by pressing the power button on the display. Now Apple's displays connect via DVI and don't have this function. I'd like to see it restored for MacPros. Apple's iMacs sit on the desk, so there is less of a need for a power button on the keyboard. Considering the logical placement for a power button, this keyboard doesn't seem to have one. The control-eject key combination should still work.
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post #211 of 245
This new keyboard may be the next leg of Apple's GREEN initiative they posted earlier this year: Designing and manufacturing products with an eye towards less materials, using less toxic alternatives, less environmental impact, etc. More steps in a better direction.

Presume whatever next-gen iMac will be similar, or should I say SLIMilar. Aside from it's screen-size, it needn't be much thicker than a MacBook... But for gawdssakes Apple, external powerbricks have got to go whenever possible.
post #212 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorMac - Palm Springs View Post

This new keyboard may be the next leg of Apple's GREEN initiative they posted earlier this year: Designing and manufacturing products with an eye towards less materials, using less toxic alternatives, less environmental impact, etc. More steps in a better direction.

Presume whatever next-gen iMac will be similar, or should I say SLIMilar. Aside from it's screen-size, it needn't be much thicker than a MacBook... But for gawdssakes Apple, external powerbricks have got to go whenever possible.

I'm using 100% post consumer recycled electrons to post this message.
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post #213 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorMac - Palm Springs View Post

This new keyboard may be the next leg of Apple's GREEN initiative they posted earlier this year: Designing and manufacturing products with an eye towards less materials, using less toxic alternatives, less environmental impact, etc. More steps in a better direction.

Presume whatever next-gen iMac will be similar, or should I say SLIMilar. Aside from it's screen-size, it needn't be much thicker than a MacBook... But for gawdssakes Apple, external powerbricks have got to go whenever possible.

Now that everything for the iMac appears to be slimming down, I wonder if the new iMacs could become 'portable.' Not necessarily laptop portable. But like, hey, I can now fit everything in a case and take it places rather easily.
post #214 of 245
What's up with the 2 dimensional USB port? Also the background is weird in this one.


The dedicated expose keys seem odd to me, adjusting from the F9 key would be death for me, and then moving the sound from the F-teens (I don't remember exactly where). Also the 2 delete keys and the command instead of the  seem suspicious. I say it looks cool, but I am skeptical of it's existence.
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post #215 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

Are you a doorknob?

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post #216 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobmarksdale View Post

What's up with the 2 dimensional USB port? Also the background is weird in this one.


The dedicated expose keys seem odd to me, adjusting from the F9 key would be death for me, and then moving the sound from the F-teens (I don't remember exactly where). Also the 2 delete keys and the command instead of the  seem suspicious. I say it looks cool, but I am skeptical of it's existence.

The normal desktop keyboard has a regular delete key as well as the forward delete key. As for the command key losing the open Apple symbol, I figure it is past due. I have to keep reminding clients to call the keyboard shortcut command-<whatever> instead of Apple-<whatever>. Apple could even bend over backwards and put the windows logo there for the special windows key. This for Boot Camp/Parallels Desktop/Crossover/VM Ware Fusion users.
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post #217 of 245
when exactly back to school promotions start in US, seeing some advertisements lots of shops...

apple always late to the party?

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Nov '09 | iMac 21.5" C2D 3.06 Ghz | Intel 330 240GB SSD | ATI

Sep '12| Toshiba 14" 1366 x 768! | i5 3rd Gen 6GB| Intel x25-m 120GB SSD | Win 7|  Viewsonic VX2255wmb 22" LCD
iPhone 4S| iPad 2 wifi

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post #218 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobmarksdale View Post

What's up with the 2 dimensional USB port? Also the background is weird in this one.

I'm not sure I understand the "2 dimensional USB port" question? Please restate in another way.

WTR to the background, the photographer simply used some navy or black velvet as a backdrop to give the keyboard some nice contrast (emphasize the keyboard, not the background). The item upon which the keyboard is propped is a Nikon lens hood (a heavy plastic hood that shields a camera lens from sun glare -- it was probably the only black thing laying about that would work as a mount for the keyboard.
post #219 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigE View Post

I'm not sure I understand the "2 dimensional USB port" question? Please restate in another way.

WTR to the background, the photographer simply used some navy or black velvet as a backdrop to give the keyboard some nice contrast (emphasize the keyboard, not the background). The item upon which the keyboard is propped is a Nikon lens hood (a heavy plastic hood that shields a camera lens from sun glare -- it was probably the only black thing laying about that would work as a mount for the keyboard.

Ah, thanks for clearing up the BG issue, and by 2-D I mean that when looking at the USB port, one can only see a height and a width, but no depth as would be expected from that angle. It looks to me as if there is no substance to the port and even if it was in existence in space and fully functional, it would not hold up the keyboard very well given its apparent small footprint (easily breakable, keyboard would wobble, etc.). Clearer?
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post #220 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobmarksdale View Post

Ah, thanks for clearing up the BG issue, and by 2-D I mean that when looking at the USB port, one can only see a height and a width, but no depth as would be expected from that angle. It looks to me as if there is no substance to the port and even if it was in existence in space and fully functional, it would not hold up the keyboard very well given its apparent small footprint (easily breakable, keyboard would wobble, etc.). Clearer?


The raised part that holds the USB ports goes over 90% of the bottom of the keyboard. Look at the pictures of the bottom of the keyboard and you'll see that the "heel" actually goes almost from one side to the other.

And I still don't get your "USB port is 2d", it looks perfectly fine for me
post #221 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobmarksdale View Post

The dedicated expose keys seem odd to me, adjusting from the F9 key would be death for me, and then moving the sound from the F-teens (I don't remember exactly where). Also the 2 delete keys and the command instead of the  seem suspicious. I say it looks cool, but I am skeptical of it's existence.

I would have thought the F3 key would be for Spaces, and not expose (if that's what you mean by dedicated expose key). I would assume the normal expose keys would be the same. I reckon F4 must be either sleep or time machine.
post #222 of 245
as i said in the which forum member is steve jobs thread, the keyboard is going to have the "aluminum look". Soon the iMac will appear on the market, and it as well will have the same look. I am teh steve.
MacBook Pro
2.2GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
2GB 667 DDR2 SDRAM - 2x1GB
120GB Serial ATA Drive@5400rpm
SuperDrive 8x
15" Glossy Widescreen Display

with a wireless Apple keyboard

and

iPod Touch
8GB
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2.2GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
2GB 667 DDR2 SDRAM - 2x1GB
120GB Serial ATA Drive@5400rpm
SuperDrive 8x
15" Glossy Widescreen Display

with a wireless Apple keyboard

and

iPod Touch
8GB
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post #223 of 245
Insider from czech branch of Foxconn CONFIRMED, that THIS IS a NEW KEYBOARD for iMacs, which will be in silver aluminium coat.

Strongly secured bay of this factory manufacturing new iMacs already.

Also said, that August 7th is too early date, but just in his opinion.
post #224 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by iMacExpectant View Post


Also said, that August 7th is too early date, but just in his opinion.

Apple had better put this new iMac out before the Paris show. By then you feel compelled to wait another month for Leapord to come installed.
post #225 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by iMacExpectant View Post

Insider from czech branch of Foxconn (Pardubice, Czech Republic) CONFIRMED, that THIS IS a NEW KEYBOARD for iMacs, which will be in silver aluminium coat.

Strongly secured bay of this factory manufacturing new iMacs already.

Also said, that August 7th is too early date, but just in his opinion.

Nice to hear confirmation but if August the 7th is too early did he give his own estimate, maybe a couple of weeks later? I guess Apple could still launch it and increase the shipping time just to let us see what it looks like.
post #226 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by bogg View Post

The raised part that holds the USB ports goes over 90% of the bottom of the keyboard. Look at the pictures of the bottom of the keyboard and you'll see that the "heel" actually goes almost from one side to the other.

And I still don't get your "USB port is 2d", it looks perfectly fine for me

Look at that picture that I targeted on and look at the angle of the shot with how the keys line up. You can see the sides of the keys that would be nearly on top of this 'heel', but you cannot see the side of the heel itself. Does anyone else see what I am talking about, or am I just crazy? If no one agrees with me within a day I'll drop it and you win.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Logan09 View Post

I would have thought the F3 key would be for Spaces, and not expose (if that's what you mean by dedicated expose key). I would assume the normal expose keys would be the same. I reckon F4 must be either sleep or time machine.

That makes sense. But moving the volume controls doesn't.
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post #227 of 245
I wonder if the color labels indicate that perhaps there might be a black version...or whatever the dark version of "sea shell 1" might be.
post #228 of 245
Totally hate it.
post #229 of 245
Am I the only one who noticed the placement of the USB ports? Why would Apple put them back on the sides of the keyboard again? That puts a USB cable poking out right where your hand is mousing.

I love this keyboard, but HAAAAAATE the USB ports.
post #230 of 245
Someone was eluding to this above... look at the keys directly above the USB port in the above photo. Look at the left hand side of the keys. You can see the left edge of the keys, but there is no left edge of the USB port directly below them.

Huh?
post #231 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by idoaudio View Post

Someone was eluding to this above... look at the keys directly above the USB port in the above photo. Look at the left hand side of the keys. You can see the left edge of the keys, but there is no left edge of the USB port directly below them.

Huh?

First of all, I was not eluding to anything, I don't even think that I was alluding to it as much as I flat out said that, but that is besides the point, which is: Yay, someone agrees with me.
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post #232 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

Nice to hear confirmation but if August the 7th is too early did he give his own estimate, maybe a couple of weeks later? I guess Apple could still launch it and increase the shipping time just to let us see what it looks like.

He said that he would believe in the end of August more, but it's just feeling. He's not working for "Apple part" of Foxconn. It's just about "sometimes I can see something throug the open doors" .

I definitely agree with your second sentence. I just need to know, what to expect, I can wait with shopping \
post #233 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by iMacExpectant View Post

Insider from czech branch of Foxconn (Pardubice, Czech Republic) CONFIRMED, that THIS IS a NEW KEYBOARD for iMacs, which will be in silver aluminium coat.

Strongly secured bay of this factory manufacturing new iMacs already.

Also said, that August 7th is too early date, but just in his opinion.

Hey, don't say much about location. You may give a hard time to someone. You can still edit your post.
post #234 of 245
ok fine new keyboard is a proto or a motto.. i'm sick of it.. WHEN WILL IT BE ANOUNCED? Amazon is already giving 5 - 7 days for the 17" and 20" with only the 17" basic and 24" being available and ready to ship in 24 hrs..

So again.. WHEN ?

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post #235 of 245
Quote:
Also said, that August 7th is too early date, but just in his opinion.

Not really. Standard SLA air frieght would have that across the ponds in 24hrs to Apples WW main hubs. 1 to 2 day distribution from there to local hubs / stocks . . . so even starting today thats 3rd or 4th August with local hubs having stock ready to ship.

And thats not including that the supplier may have been producing / shipping for a week or so already.
post #236 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by fisha View Post

Not really. Standard SLA air frieght would have that across the ponds in 24hrs to Apples WW main hubs. 1 to 2 day distribution from there to local hubs / stocks . . . so even starting today thats 3rd or 4th August with local hubs having stock ready to ship.

And thats not including that the supplier may have been producing / shipping for a week or so already.

You're right and according to recently announced press event for 7th August we'll see very soon, what Steve's boys prepared Finally!!!
post #237 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mandricard View Post

Whether or not it is called "command key," I think it makes no sense to remove ALL visible apple-branding from the top of the KB. I think this is not a production unit... if real at all.

though it does look super-cool!

Hope Springs Eternal,

Mandricard
AppleOutsider

No visible logo:


As a switcher the double-named keys always confused me -- and the "Klingon" keyboard short cuts in the menus still do -- e.g. is the ^ for the ctrl or the option (or is it alt, and what does one use fn-alt for anyway?). So, the Command key, even with another Klingon symbol that can't be typed is an improvement in my eyes. I would've gone for Command/CMD.

But you do have a point. Plenty of room for an Apple logo above the cursor keypad.

Re other posters: I miss the "smily Mac face" at bootup about as much I miss "tools" menus being called "goodies" on the original Mac. The "snoring" sleep indicator on my iBook is a super cool design touch, but those others just made Macs seem like toys instead of serious machines.

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post #238 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jubelum View Post

:Republicans start pointless wars. Democrats make sure we lose them:

I know this doesn't fit the topic, but it's your tag line, so just for the record:

Iraq can be easily argued as a "pointless war" started willfully by W (R) -- and the current peace-mongering congress (D) is filled with Democrats who were out of the mainstream activists during the Vietnam era -- and this may presage how the future will go. But in terms of a longer view of history, your facile phrase doesn't hold water, especially given that Congress has only integrally inserted itself into the war-making process in the last few decades, and gave earlier prexies far more latitude.

JFK (D) sent American advisors into Vietnam, and LBJ staged the Gulf of Tonkin incident which made it an American war. Nixon (R), under Democrat and Yippie/hippie/Weathermen pressure, did get the troops out.

(JFK, to his credit, did stand up to the Soviets during the Cuban Missile Crisis, and to his shame, not to Castro after the Bay of Pigs rebels felt they had guarantees of American support.)

Korea started under Truman (D), Eisenhower (R) secured a cease-fire.

WWII started on FDR's (D) watch and was won with a Democrat congress.

During WWI Wilson (D) brought America in.

The mere prospect of dealing with Reagan got our Iranian hostages home, and Reagan (R) started, won and ended his little Caribbean intervention in a few weeks. He also scared the bejesus out of Khadaffy, who has since mostly made nicey-nice, and we sadly lost a bunch of bivouacked troops in Lebanon. And oh yeah, we won the 40 year Cold War under his policies, which Germans, Czechs, Slovaks, Poles, Hungarians, Lithuanians, Estonians and many others will tell you was hardly pointless.

Bush I (R) started and won back Kuwait's independence in Gulf War I.

Clinton (D) did something in Kosovo, but I'm not sure who won or lost what, and then bombed an aspirin factory somewhere east of here. He also used troops to guarantee Haiti's right to remain the poorest, most miserable country in the hemisphere. Somalia was another short-term botch job.

And somebody captured the dope-dealing president of Panama (name happily forgotten) by playing loud heavy metal music. Or something like that.

That leaves only W (R) and the current crew in Congress possibly fitting your mold, and then on Iraq much more than Afghanistan.

Care to reconsider??

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post #239 of 245
Quote:
Care to reconsider??


Care to not bite the bait and take the thread completely off topic unnecessarily ???


Quote:
Whether or not it is called "command key," I think it makes no sense to remove ALL visible apple-branding from the top of the KB. I think this is not a production unit... if real at all.


It does make sense as for those sorts of things to get built, you'd still need to send the thing off to a machine shop of some sort, you'd take off the branding to help disguise whose keyboard it is when its there.
post #240 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by fisha View Post

Care to not bite the bait and take the thread completely off topic unnecessarily ???

Guilty as charged. I need a life, obviously. Or at least a little restraint. Or to be placed in restraints!

Nevermind.

An iPhone, a Leatherman and thou...  ...life is complete.

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