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Apple to host Mac event next Tuesday - Page 8

post #281 of 557
Quote:
Originally Posted by gar View Post

1997 20th Anniversary Macintosh

Ugly isn't it.


If they put out a 20th Anniversary machine in 1997, then they might put out a 30th anniversary machine in 2007. Hey, it's 2007 right now. Hey, there's a special annoucement next week. Hmmmmm......... what could it be.....
post #282 of 557
I'm thinking we'll get a new iMac (with optional Blu Ray burner), updated Mac mini, iLife (with Blu Ray compatible iDVD) and iWork '08, and a big ol' update to .Mac (remember that us early adopters are set to renew in the next couple of months and they want to give us incentives to buy again)
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post #283 of 557
Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmoNut View Post

I'm thinking we'll get a new iMac (with optional Blu Ray burner), updated Mac mini, iLife (with Blu Ray compatible iDVD) and iWork '08, and a big ol' update to .Mac (remember that us early adopters are set to renew in the next couple of months and they want to give us incentives to buy again)

I am sticking with my belief that SJ said iLife would be part of Leopard.
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post #284 of 557
So 30th anniversary right? I'm thinking its got to be huge... so what? well multitouch sreen just seems a little too far away, introducing a new imac with a little chin? well thats kind of a let down. how about a new keyboard? wooo-hoooo(sarcasm intended) so what then? well... I'm hoping its a new mouse interface. Imagine if your mouse had multitouch similar to iphone. now just hang on a second... not a huge revelation, but imagine all the things you normally need your keyboard to do that you could do with fingers on your mouse! cut paste delete send-to .. not to mention all the program specific things that would make working so much easier!

anyways thats my idea.
post #285 of 557
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlooker View Post

I am sticking with my belief that SJ said iLife would be part of Leopard.

What are you basing this on? If you mean the "complete package" speech at WWDC 2006, the only software Steve mentioned as part of Leopard's "complete package" is Boot Camp, Front Row, and Photo Booth.

You might think he implied that iLife would be included, but that's not the same as saying it, and the implication is pretty slight in itself.
post #286 of 557
Quote:
Originally Posted by nevenmrgan View Post

What are you basing this on? If you mean the "complete package" speech at WWDC 2006, the only software Steve mentioned as part of Leopard's "complete package" is Boot Camp, Front Row, and Photo Booth.

You might think he implied that iLife would be included, but that's not the same as saying it, and the implication is pretty slight in itself.

he mentioned iLife at one point and it sounded like he said it was part of leopard. I am not the only one that assumed this.
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post #287 of 557
Operative word being 'assumed'... From what I recall, he mentioned the next version of iLife, but he never said, hinted at, or implied that it was going to be *part of* Leopard, as in, included with for free.

I mean, he mentioned Yosemite National Park, too, and even showed pictures, but I'm not expecting a deed to the park in my copy of Leopard.
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post #288 of 557
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

It doesn't have to be an imac as long as it isn't a portable.

The iMac is not an overwhelming desktop.

Quote:
The last thing I, and many others apparently want on our desks are laptops with bigger monitors plugged in, and desktop keyboards.

Is that what you have in your work environment?

I have a Mac Pro and a MBP because of some of the work I do but I could easily live with a slightly beefed up MBP from the current santa rosas. With a Condor GRID in place and the ability to RDP to the big iron in the IT department where I can get a virtual machine with far more compute cycles than my Mac Pro and you're unchained from a desktop except when your UI requirements exceed what you can get from a mobile unit.

Most folks here do have a laptop vs a desktop now. They don't need much CPU for stuff and a laptop lets them work from home.

Quote:
Your saying so doesn't make it so. There will be about 100 million desktops sold this year. Why is that? Every person and organization could have bought laptops instead, but they didn't.

Of that 100M only 2.4M were Mac desktops. While I don't think the iMac is going away it doesn't mean its critical to the lineup.

There are more and more folks getting laptops instead of desktops. I don't think that trend is disputed. That holds within the Apple demographic as well.

Given that Apple tends to be forward thinking and our demographic is loyal and also forward thinking I could see Apple moving toward a mobile/semi-mobile only lineup.

Quote:
I still wouldn't want a 20" MBP. I want a 22", or 24", or a 30". What now? You have, again, to go buy that extra monitor.

Two really unless you get the 30". However since Apple's demographic trends toward the upper end of the market, cost is not as significant a factor any more than it is for any other luxury/premium brand.

Quote:
And you assume that people like portable keyboards. Many people don't.

Apple too judging by the recent keyboard design. In any case there are these things called USB ports...and I did say that an iDock would be a requirement for much easier attachment to displays and input devices before losing the iMac line is feasible.

Quote:
Again, I'm not saying it must be an iMac. For all I care, Apple could just keep the 24" in the line for general purchase, and sell the 20" to schools.

Sure, get rid of the Mini. But replace them with something else, such as that mini tower.

Given there no mini-tower at the moment that seems unlikely and we're talking about whether Apple can meet the needs of its market segments with an all mobile lineup.

There is a trend to laptops and away from computer labs in schools. The MB seems a reasonable replacement for the iMac.

Quote:
I agree that your combo would do everything. But, my above comments show where I don't think it would go down big with the large desktop buying groups. I know you disagree.

The large desktop buying group that is 1/3 the size of the folks buying laptops in Apple's lineup?

Quote:
What I meant was that without the desktops in the line, and at the time we were discussing this earlier, I assumed that you were also classifying the Mac Pro in that catagory, there wouldn't be much "pull' toward the laptops without the high profile businesses.

Without them, high end software development would come to an abrupt halt.

Without the Mac Pro and the xServe that would certainly be true.

Quote:
since you are excluding the workstations from that equation, the situation would be a bit different, but not totally.

Find me a pro user that would prefer an iMac vs a MBP with an iDock.

Quote:
You misunderstood me. I'm talking about between desktop machines and laptops, not MB's and MBP's. Though people do say that the MBP keyboard is better, as are the screens.

I apologize, I said MP rather than spelling it out as Mac Pro. There is no ergonomic difference between my Mac Pro and my MBP as I used the same keyboard and 30" ACD with both. The MBP is currently on a 24" monitor at the moment.

Quote:
See, and you DO need to buy an extra (as apart from what comes with the laptop) monitor and keyboard. Extra room and expense.

Sure. Although an updated MB (with Santa Rosa) and 20" monitor isn't any more than a current 20" iMac. If priced with a 20" ACD + iDock for $1499 that wouldn't be any more expensive at the cost of dedicated graphics.

Quote:
They would die for the reasons I gave. Apple simply can't continue a successful professional business with just the power and sophistication of laptops. There are things they do well, but there are things they aren't suited for.

Again, what can't a MBP do that an iMac can?

Quote:
A dock would help. But, for most, it isn't a suitable replacement. They haven't proven themselves to be wildly popular. Apple had them. Few bought them.

In what context? There are few laptops in a business environment that I don't see coupled with a docking station in the office. As you say, there is an egonomic difference between laptops and desktops and a dock eliminates that difference.

Now it will always be a lower cost option to provide certain staff with desktops vs laptops with dock.

However for knowledge and creative workers the laptop is a more useful and cost effective solution in terms of how computers improve workflow and quality of life (important if you care about retention rates, productivity, etc) as opposed to absolute capital expenditure. It would always be cheaper to buy nothing.

Quote:
I really don't understand why you would think that that would really be suitable as a replacement. It seems to be very clumsy to me. I know few people who would want to lug it around. And if it's going to permanently replace a desktop model, then there's no purpose to it at all.

It addresses the power user/prosumer segment that would wish to have a larger more capable machine at the expense of mobility. As folks here have stated there are pro and prosumers using Macs to capture raw HD. A 20" MBP with fast drives would be a good fit for many creative users that need power with a certain level of mobility but end up tethered once on site.

Quote:
A NAS server can be, and is, used with desktop networks as well. I'm thinking of getting one myself for our network.

Vinea, this is a matter of viewpoints. The only way we'll see who is correct, is to wait five years and come back to it.

I suspect we'll have our boxing gloves on again.

While I don't see Apple abandoning the iMac in the next 5 years the fact remains that the iMac is essentially a low-mobility laptop. Apple has already abandoned the traditional desktop market with only AIOs, SFF and workstations.

That ship has sailed.

While I don't expect a full transition to just mobile products that there is a company (Toshiba) shipping more units than Apple that only has mobile products coupled with Apple's current product line and that I've shown that every major Apple market segment can be met with a mobility or CE product I think I've made the case that Apple COULD go that way without going out of business.

Not that it WILL...just that it COULD.

I will make you a 5 year bet though: In 5 years Apple will have one traditional laptop left in their lineup and it will fill the same role as the Mac Pro does in its current line up.

Everything else will be UMPCs (done correctly), phones and multitouch tablets (slates most likely). In 5 years only the very top end laptops (like current day workstations) will command 28% margins. Like with the desktops Apple will have unique mobile form factors and abandon the traditional laptop form factor.

If there is to be a successful tablet it will be made by Apple...just like the only successful AIO it is being made by Apple.

Apple's investment in OSX allows this and it is an ADVANTAGE to going all mobile or going offbeat form factor not a hindrance. Without OSX the iMac would sell about as well as Sony's AIO. Sucky.

Vinea
post #289 of 557
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kickaha View Post

Operative word being 'assumed'... From what I recall, he mentioned the next version of iLife, but he never said, hinted at, or implied that it was going to be *part of* Leopard, as in, included with for free.

I mean, he mentioned Yosemite National Park, too, and even showed pictures, but I'm not expecting a deed to the park in my copy of Leopard.

I saw the quote in here once before, but I don't have it now. It's ra easonable assumption if you see it.
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post #290 of 557
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew The Man View Post

An ultra-portable with flash memory would be awesome!

Agreed! Apple needs to give the 2.7 lb. ThinkPad x61 a run for its money - and flash memory bootup would be a big step in the right direction (along with better screen, match the ThinkPad battery life, make it less than 3 lbs., built-in wifi/bluetooth/wan).http://forums.appleinsider.com/image...s/1biggrin.gif

Also hope all the rumors are wrong and that they resurrect the mac mini (updated, of course). There's a need for a product from Apple in that performance/price slot - and I want one (or two).
post #291 of 557
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzzwriter View Post

Agreed! Apple needs to give the 2.7 lb. ThinkPad x61 a run for its money - and flash memory bootup would be a big step in the right direction (along with better screen, match the ThinkPad battery life, make it less than 3 lbs., built-in wifi/bluetooth/wan).http://forums.appleinsider.com/image...s/1biggrin.gif

Also hope all the rumors are wrong and that they resurrect the mac mini (updated, of course). There's a need for a product from Apple in that performance/price slot - and I want one (or two).


Samsung shows off flash laptop drive at CeBIT

That long-dreamed-of product, the solid-state laptop, is one step closer to reality, as Samsung is showing off a flash-powered laptop at CeBIT. The demo box uses a 32GB 1.8-inch solid-state drive created by Samsung, to show off the company's flash chops. Unfortunately, at $30 per gigabyte, the 32GB drive would cost over $900. However, with flash prices continuing to decline, and companies like Intel predicting that flash laptops are on their way, we may not have to wait too much longer for this to be feasible -- though, even at over $900, that flash laptop drive sounds mighty tempting.
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post #292 of 557
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kickaha View Post

Operative word being 'assumed'... From what I recall, he mentioned the next version of iLife, but he never said, hinted at, or implied that it was going to be *part of* Leopard, as in, included with for free.

I mean, he mentioned Yosemite National Park, too, and even showed pictures, but I'm not expecting a deed to the park in my copy of Leopard.

Maybe a day trip?
post #293 of 557
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

Again, what can't a MBP do that an iMac can?

How bout a 7200 rpm hard drive that holds more than 160gb? How bout better cooling? True, a MBP could be a functional equivalent to an iMac, IF you are willing to turn it into one by purchasing 1.) a docking station 2.) a cinema display 3.) a separate keyboard and mouse (a small expenditure but still an extra step). Oh, and let's not forget that feature for feature (excluding mobility, of course) the iMac is far more cost-effective to the consumer. So to summarize, yes, you can make your MBP functionally equivalent to your desktop, provided you are willing to shell out the extra dough for a docking station, display, and keyboard and mouse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

As folks here have stated there are pro and prosumers using Macs to capture raw HD. A 20" MBP with fast drives would be a good fit for many creative users that need power with a certain level of mobility but end up tethered once on site.

First, 20"!? Isn't the point of a laptop mobility? I hardly think lugging around a 20" beast is mobile. Second, to suggest that the MBP out-of-box can serve as a replacement for a Mac Pro - the premier video editing machine - is just deslusional. You make a HUGE assumption in your rationale: "WITH FAST DRIVES." Sure, but those don't exist in laptops, not in large capacity anyway. The biggest internal hard drive available for the MBP is 250 gb, at 4200rpm! There is a 160gb option at 7200rpm, but that won't last long if you're capturing raw HD. Most video editing stations are equipped with at least 1TB of internal storage, and their hard drives are reading/writing data about 75 times faster than the largest MBP hard drive. No one in their right mind would use a MBP as their PRIMARY workstation to capture raw HD, at least not without a plethora of add ons (cinema, external hard drive, docking station).

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

While I don't see Apple abandoning the iMac in the next 5 years the fact remains that the iMac is essentially a low-mobility laptop.

See above. Dollar for dollar, feature for feature, the MBP is not a replacement for the iMac.
post #294 of 557
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

The iMac is not an overwhelming desktop.



I have a Mac Pro and a MBP because of some of the work I do but I could easily live with a slightly beefed up MBP from the current santa rosas. With a Condor GRID in place and the ability to RDP to the big iron in the IT department where I can get a virtual machine with far more compute cycles than my Mac Pro and you're unchained from a desktop except when your UI requirements exceed what you can get from a mobile unit.

Most folks here do have a laptop vs a desktop now. They don't need much CPU for stuff and a laptop lets them work from home.



Of that 100M only 2.4M were Mac desktops. While I don't think the iMac is going away it doesn't mean its critical to the lineup.

There are more and more folks getting laptops instead of desktops. I don't think that trend is disputed. That holds within the Apple demographic as well.

Given that Apple tends to be forward thinking and our demographic is loyal and also forward thinking I could see Apple moving toward a mobile/semi-mobile only lineup.



Two really unless you get the 30". However since Apple's demographic trends toward the upper end of the market, cost is not as significant a factor any more than it is for any other luxury/premium brand.



Apple too judging by the recent keyboard design. In any case there are these things called USB ports...and I did say that an iDock would be a requirement for much easier attachment to displays and input devices before losing the iMac line is feasible.



Given there no mini-tower at the moment that seems unlikely and we're talking about whether Apple can meet the needs of its market segments with an all mobile lineup.

There is a trend to laptops and away from computer labs in schools. The MB seems a reasonable replacement for the iMac.



The large desktop buying group that is 1/3 the size of the folks buying laptops in Apple's lineup?



Without the Mac Pro and the xServe that would certainly be true.



Find me a pro user that would prefer an iMac vs a MBP with an iDock.



I apologize, I said MP rather than spelling it out as Mac Pro. There is no ergonomic difference between my Mac Pro and my MBP as I used the same keyboard and 30" ACD with both. The MBP is currently on a 24" monitor at the moment.



Sure. Although an updated MB (with Santa Rosa) and 20" monitor isn't any more than a current 20" iMac. If priced with a 20" ACD + iDock for $1499 that wouldn't be any more expensive at the cost of dedicated graphics.



Again, what can't a MBP do that an iMac can?



In what context? There are few laptops in a business environment that I don't see coupled with a docking station in the office. As you say, there is an egonomic difference between laptops and desktops and a dock eliminates that difference.

Now it will always be a lower cost option to provide certain staff with desktops vs laptops with dock.

However for knowledge and creative workers the laptop is a more useful and cost effective solution in terms of how computers improve workflow and quality of life (important if you care about retention rates, productivity, etc) as opposed to absolute capital expenditure. It would always be cheaper to buy nothing.



It addresses the power user/prosumer segment that would wish to have a larger more capable machine at the expense of mobility. As folks here have stated there are pro and prosumers using Macs to capture raw HD. A 20" MBP with fast drives would be a good fit for many creative users that need power with a certain level of mobility but end up tethered once on site.



While I don't see Apple abandoning the iMac in the next 5 years the fact remains that the iMac is essentially a low-mobility laptop. Apple has already abandoned the traditional desktop market with only AIOs, SFF and workstations.

That ship has sailed.

While I don't expect a full transition to just mobile products that there is a company (Toshiba) shipping more units than Apple that only has mobile products coupled with Apple's current product line and that I've shown that every major Apple market segment can be met with a mobility or CE product I think I've made the case that Apple COULD go that way without going out of business.

Not that it WILL...just that it COULD.

I will make you a 5 year bet though: In 5 years Apple will have one traditional laptop left in their lineup and it will fill the same role as the Mac Pro does in its current line up.

Everything else will be UMPCs (done correctly), phones and multitouch tablets (slates most likely). In 5 years only the very top end laptops (like current day workstations) will command 28% margins. Like with the desktops Apple will have unique mobile form factors and abandon the traditional laptop form factor.

If there is to be a successful tablet it will be made by Apple...just like the only successful AIO it is being made by Apple.

Apple's investment in OSX allows this and it is an ADVANTAGE to going all mobile or going offbeat form factor not a hindrance. Without OSX the iMac would sell about as well as Sony's AIO. Sucky.

Vinea

Vinea, this is getting way too long.

I can't see a reason to respond to every point, because the detail isn't pertinent, and you are ignoring some of the points I've made in that you wash right over them.

But, to cut to the chase. You make several assumptions that are only that, assumptions.

You are not taking cost into account at any time. The cost and inconvenience of having to buy a monitor and keyboard/mouse to replace the ones that come with the laptop is a significant outlay. The cost for the non-existent dock will be high as well. We will be paying for a Mac Pro without the advantages. Not cost effective for most.

Who is going to buy this 20" monstrosity? It will, by itself, cost as much as a top of the line Mac Pro.

Your situation is different. Your company is a developer, from what you say, and so they are heavily invested. Very few companies will go that far. Schools will not even think on it, and the individual consumer doesn't even know what you're talking about. Apple is the only computer company that has attempted some mass appeal that doesn't have a desirable line of desktops that costs less than the cheapest laptop, and in addition, is more expandable.

While it's true that most all companies that produce both laptops and desktops have seen a move to laptops, Apple sales are out of sync with the rest of the industry. By that I mean that Apple sells a greater percentage of laptops to desktops than most other computer companies.

That's not because its laptops are so much better, but because its desktop choices are so much worse.

And, by the way, if you want to talk about current product lines, and want to dismiss a mini tower which could help turn this situation around, then you can't mention the also non-existent dock, the extreme unpopularity of which you failed to address.
post #295 of 557
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post

The price might come down a little due to lower LCD/RAM prices, but I would not expect that big of a drop.

Welcome to AI!

Would a little be like a $100? Also thx 4 the welcome
post #296 of 557
My Tuesday Dream List. (My dream because it would shut up 1/2 the people that cry about it)

The wait is over. Apple addresses the hole in it's desktop line and presents three products.

Low end - New Mac Mini
Mid range - New iMac
Semi Pro - Mac Semi Pro mid tower.

That would be a cool tuesday. Even though I'm waiting for a New workstation, I still like to see Apple announce new things.
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post #297 of 557
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick12945 View Post

Would a little be like a $100? Also thx 4 the welcome

If the price comes down at all, it'll be $100. I wouldn't be surprised it it went up by as much either (provided there were features that justified it).

My iMac price prediction:

daydream: 20" at current 17" price, 24" at current 20" price
optimistic expectation: same price as current
pessimistic prediction: $100 more than current
post #298 of 557
Help me out here.
I’ve been listening to you guys argue throughout this thread, and I’m mystified. I’m probably too dense or something. I don’t understand why some users prefer laptops. Where do they use them? Driving to work? At Starbucks? Sitting in the park? Bouncing around on a commuter train? Do they take them on trips or on vacation?

I’ve taught at a local college for over 18 years, know many faculty and staff, and know only one who has a laptop – and it’s a very old one.- the laptop, not the professor.

All the IT’s have a desktop at home and use desktops at work. The IT’s who had had them have given up laptops and now carry a USB drive back and forth to work. I had lunch today with two Engineering and Computer Department PHD’s from Florida International Univ. Our discussions revolved around desktops and workstations. Neither of them would consider a laptop.

I bought a laptop (PC) a bunch of years ago. With all the paraphernalia, sleeves, and such, I might as well have been toting around a desktop. Opening and closing it with all those accoutrements was sheer agony. I hated the keyboard and the small screen. I was not productive at all. (I now have two 22" displays and find that's minimal.)

That PC lasted me four weeks before I gave it to my daughter. She used it for a few months, dropped it, and that was the end of the laptop. We never even considered getting it repaired.

Please set me straight. What am I missing?
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post #299 of 557
Quote:
Originally Posted by sequitur View Post

Samsung shows off flash laptop drive at CeBIT

That long-dreamed-of product, the solid-state laptop, is one step closer to reality, as Samsung is showing off a flash-powered laptop at CeBIT. The demo box uses a 32GB 1.8-inch solid-state drive created by Samsung, to show off the company's flash chops. Unfortunately, at $30 per gigabyte, the 32GB drive would cost over $900. However, with flash prices continuing to decline, and companies like Intel predicting that flash laptops are on their way, we may not have to wait too much longer for this to be feasible -- though, even at over $900, that flash laptop drive sounds mighty tempting.

Why should this memory cost anything really? There was a time (when I was in high school?) when 32KB RAM cost $900. There will be a time when 32TB costs $32. It's just silicon, which is the most plentiful substance in the crust of the earth.
post #300 of 557
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlooker View Post

My Tuesday Dream List. (My dream because it would shut up 1/2 the people that cry about it)

The wait is over. Apple addresses the hole in it's desktop line and presents three products.

Low end - New Mac Mini
Mid range - New iMac
Semi Pro - Mac Semi Pro mid tower.

That would be a cool tuesday. Even though I'm waiting for a New workstation, I still like to see Apple announce new things.

My daughter wants a new machine. She wants a tower again. Whether I want to buy her a Mac Pro is something I haven't decided yet. She wants the upgradability.

But, if a mini or mid tower came out, that would solve the problem.
post #301 of 557
Quote:
Originally Posted by sequitur View Post

I dont understand why some users prefer laptops. Where do they use them? Driving to work? At Starbucks? Sitting in the park? Bouncing around on a commuter train?

Heh... where to start?

Let's say you do any of the following:

- Attend a lot of conferences and conventions
- Travel a lot
- Go to a lot of business meetings
- Like using your computer in any room in the house

When I worked at an office, I carried my PowerBook to work every day. That way I could have all my data with me, and I could use programs I only had installed on my PowerBook. I could also carry lots of data back and forth easily.

When I went to friends' houses, I could bring my computer to show and share pictures and movies.

And yes, I took the PowerBook to the coffee shop as well.

None of these strike me as bizarre or pretentious uses of technology. Sure, they could all be circumvented by some combination of flash drives, notepads, memo recorders, and shrugging of shoulders, but... why?
post #302 of 557
Quote:
Originally Posted by sequitur View Post

Help me out here.
Ive been listening to you guys argue throughout this thread, and Im mystified. Im probably too dense or something. I dont understand why some users prefer laptops.
...
Please set me straight. What am I missing?

You simply don't see the need to change your computing venue. Other people see it as a critical need.
post #303 of 557
Quote:
Originally Posted by sequitur View Post

I bought a laptop (PC) a bunch of years ago.

Please set me straight. What am I missing?

Did that laptop have wireless networking that worked?

I have a laptop (1.83 GHz MacBook, planning to upgrade to Penryn-based 15" MacBook Pro as soon as they are available). Most of the time, I use it at my desk with my external keyboard, mouse, and 20" widescreen monitor. However, it is very nice to be able to unplug the external stuff and use the laptop around the house. I've used it to watch streaming live television whilst in the kitchen (occasionally), and, more often, to surf the web whilst sitting on my sofa in the sitting room - that's especially useful when watching Formula One and using the F1 website to view official live timing at the same time as watching the race.

Currently, I don't have an LCD tv, but when I do, I dare say I'll occasionally connect up the laptop to the LCD, and to the surround-sound amp via the optical cable to view computer-bound video files.

Lastly, of course, it's useful to be able to take my computer out of the house on occasion.
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post #304 of 557
Quote:
Originally Posted by sequitur View Post

Help me out here.
Ive been listening to you guys argue throughout this thread, and Im mystified. Im probably too dense or something. I dont understand why some users prefer laptops. Where do they use them? Driving to work? At Starbucks? Sitting in the park? Bouncing around on a commuter train? Do they take them on trips or on vacation?

Ive taught at a local college for over 18 years, know many faculty and staff, and know only one who has a laptop and its a very old one.- the laptop, not the professor.

All the ITs have a desktop at home and use desktops at work. The ITs who had had them have given up laptops and now carry a USB drive back and forth to work. I had lunch today with two Engineering and Computer Department PHDs from Florida International Univ. Our discussions revolved around desktops and workstations. Neither of them would consider a laptop.

I bought a laptop (PC) a bunch of years ago. With all the paraphernalia, sleeves, and such, I might as well have been toting around a desktop. Opening and closing it with all those accoutrements was sheer agony. I hated the keyboard and the small screen. I was not productive at all. (I now have two 22" displays and find that's minimal.)

That PC lasted me four weeks before I gave it to my daughter. She used it for a few months, dropped it, and that was the end of the laptop. We never even considered getting it repaired.

Please set me straight. What am I missing?

I don't think you're missing anything. I simply don't agree with the "laptop as desktop" theory.

If you read Vinea's posts, you can see just why it won't work for most, too complex, and too expensive.

But, it does work for some.

But, many people want laptops, because they want, or need, to compute away from the home or office. Some people need a computer on the road more than they need a desktop. for them, a laptop is best. The few times they'll use it at home or at the office, they can put up with the annoyances.

Students like them because they can carry them around the campus, where WiFi is usually ubiquitous. Then they can download lectures, homework, etc, as well as music, They have little room in a dorm, usually, so a laptop fits well.

Unlike some, however, I think that the swing to laptops will, at some point, stop. Things will stabilize, possibly even move back to a certain extent. Those who think otherwise have blinders on.
post #305 of 557
Quote:
Originally Posted by killerapp View Post

Why should this memory cost anything really?

Why should whatever you do for work cost your customers anything?

Quote:
Originally Posted by killerapp View Post

There will be a time when 32TB costs $32.

Yes, and that time is not now, nor any time soon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by killerapp View Post

It's just silicon, which is the most plentiful substance in the crust of the earth.

Try getting some silicon from the beach and sticking it in your Mac, then. See how that goes.
post #306 of 557
Quote:
Originally Posted by killerapp View Post

There will be a time when 32TB costs $32.

Don't count on it. Some parts of memory chips are already only a few atoms thick. You can't get thinner than one atom. Once they've got down to those areas being only one atom thick, that's a "brick wall". Alternative topologies are being worked on, but it remains to be seen if they'll be viable for mass production, and if they are, whether they'll be ready by the time that "brick wall" hits.


Quote:
Originally Posted by killerapp View Post

It's just silicon, which is the most plentiful substance in the crust of the earth.

Except, it's not just silicon. It's silicon that's been made extremely pure, then had lots of stuff added to it, and bits taken away from it, in very clever ways. It's all that processing that makes it expensive.
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post #307 of 557
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Unlike some, however, I think that the swing to laptops will, at some point, stop. Things will stabilize, possibly even move back to a certain extent. Those who think otherwise have blinders on.

Agreed. And let's not forget that the "swing to laptops" is actually only in percentage terms. Both the desktop market and the laptop market are growing, it's just that laptops are growing faster than desktops, so the % share for laptops of the overall market is increasing.
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post #308 of 557
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post

And let's not forget that the "swing to laptops" is actually only in percentage terms. Both the desktop market and the laptop market are growing, it's just that laptops are growing faster than desktops, so the % share for laptops of the overall market is increasing.

It would be interesting to see some numbers on the percentage of laptop owners who also have a desktop computer. I think a large number of users aren't deciding between one or the other, but combining the best of two worlds.
post #309 of 557
Quote:
Originally Posted by nevenmrgan View Post

It would be interesting to see some numbers on the percentage of laptop owners who also have a desktop computer. I think a large number of users aren't deciding between one or the other, but combining the best of two worlds.

Agreed!
post #310 of 557
Quote:
Originally Posted by sequitur View Post

Help me out here.
Ive been listening to you guys argue throughout this thread, and Im mystified. Im probably too dense or something. I dont understand why some users prefer laptops. Where do they use them? Driving to work? At Starbucks? Sitting in the park? Bouncing around on a commuter train? Do they take them on trips or on vacation?

Ive taught at a local college for over 18 years, know many faculty and staff, and know only one who has a laptop and its a very old one.- the laptop, not the professor.

All the ITs have a desktop at home and use desktops at work. The ITs who had had them have given up laptops and now carry a USB drive back and forth to work. I had lunch today with two Engineering and Computer Department PHDs from Florida International Univ. Our discussions revolved around desktops and workstations. Neither of them would consider a laptop.

I bought a laptop (PC) a bunch of years ago. With all the paraphernalia, sleeves, and such, I might as well have been toting around a desktop. Opening and closing it with all those accoutrements was sheer agony. I hated the keyboard and the small screen. I was not productive at all. (I now have two 22" displays and find that's minimal.)

That PC lasted me four weeks before I gave it to my daughter. She used it for a few months, dropped it, and that was the end of the laptop. We never even considered getting it repaired.

Please set me straight. What am I missing?

I am in total agreement with your train of thought. Nevertheless some people do need their computer on the go more than others, and some have both for that versatility. If I had to chose it would be a workstation. If I wanted both... Well we'll se what Apple does this year. Maybe I will have a portable besides my iPhone. I am spending more time on the road, but I still couldn't do without a workstation.
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post #311 of 557
Duplicate - Sorry
post #312 of 557
So i only started coming to this site because i was in the market for a new computer and the idea was to wait for the new iMac to replace my first and only Apple computer a Mac Mini. In the time since starting reading this forum i have actually purchased a MacBook Pro. It was only through this site that i realised that the iMac is really just a MBP with a bigger screen and more storage space anyway. Of course by the time i buy a new Apple display (maybe see some new ones released along with the iMac) i would have spent at least twice as much as i would have on an Imac for me it is probably worth it.

I am writing this post while lounging on my balcony drinking my morning coffee and smoking my morning cigarettes, you cannot do this on an iMac, this is why the laptop is becoming more popular, the huge uptake in home wireless networks is proof that more and more people are going mobile with their computers. As for the idea that the swing is going back towards desktops i really think that as one or two other posters have mentioned many people are know buying both. Once you have a laptop and start to mess with video editing and photo editing etc.. a more powerful desktop becomes the obvious choice (obviously aimed at MB owners rather than MBP).

Storage Space is a misleading one, anyone who argues that the biggest negative for a portable rather than a desktop is the lack of storage space is just missing the point. The idea of your computer also housing your media is dead in the water, you should not be housing your media in your computer anyway. This is the age of the home network, media should be stored on external network attached drives, preferably with back-up. 100GB is all the storage you should ever need on your computer, plenty to house the OS and all your applications plus enough left over for temp media files and project files. I would have said upgradability would be the key but iMacs don't even offer that, as for power iMacs are no more powerful than a MBP.

When i go on holiday i can take my computer with me, when i travel on business i can take my work PC and my home MBP with me, when i go to friends houses i can take my new photos, or music or videos ... whatever with me. I can go out for breakfast and sit in a cafe for an hour this morning and instead of reading the newspaper can browse the web. On a flight i can watch my own movies instead of the family friendly edited crap that everyone else gets to watch.

Anyway i have probably rabbled on for long enough now and am not even sure what my point is, actually what is my point? Notebooks are here to stay, dont think otherwise. I guess.
post #313 of 557
Quote:
Originally Posted by murphyweb View Post

Anyway i have probably rabbled on for long enough now and am not even sure what my point is, actually what is my point?

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post #314 of 557
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

If you read Vinea's posts, you can see just why it won't work for most, too complex, and too expensive.

But, it does work for some.

But, many people want laptops, because they want, or need, to compute away from the home or office. Some people need a computer on the road more than they need a desktop. for them, a laptop is best. The few times they'll use it at home or at the office, they can put up with the annoyances.

Students like them because they can carry them around the campus, where WiFi is usually ubiquitous. Then they can download lectures, homework, etc, as well as music, They have little room in a dorm, usually, so a laptop fits well.

Unlike some, however, I think that the swing to laptops will, at some point, stop. Things will stabilize, possibly even move back to a certain extent. Those who think otherwise have blinders on.

Too complex? I'm not sure I catch your drift there. Expensive yes. Apple's lineup minimizes the cost difference between laptops and desktops by not having budget desktop models and by having attractively priced MB. Is it any wonder MBs are the best selling Mac?

While I don't see desktops going away, they support the low and performance ends of the market, I think laptops will continue to expand market share vs. desktops. As you have pointed out yourself, iMacs are powerful enough for all but the most demanding users. Like Vinea said what can an iMac do that a MBP can't'? Maybe that'll change on Tuesday and you can point out the differences. But today there really isn't any difference. Not having multiple machines in which to sync files is a very nice advantage of having just one machine (laptop). Syncing is just as big a pain in the ass as backing up and as you've pointed out most people are lazy about backing up.

When WiMax arrives I think laptops will be even more appealing as broadband access will be ubiquitous. Right now the only advantage that an iMac has over a MBP is cost and perhaps reliability.
post #315 of 557
Quote:
Originally Posted by murphyweb View Post

When i go on holiday i can take my computer with me, when i travel on business i can take my work PC and my home MBP with me, when i go to friends houses i can take my new photos, or music or videos ... whatever with me. I can go out for breakfast and sit in a cafe for an hour this morning and instead of reading the newspaper can browse the web. On a flight i can watch my own movies instead of the family friendly edited crap that everyone else gets to watch.

We need a thumbs up emoticon because you nailed it. That flexibility you get with a laptop is priceless and now there is no performance penalty.
post #316 of 557
Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac View Post

Too complex? I'm not sure I catch your drift there.

I think he was referring to the docking (although imaginary iDock shouldn't figure in here), and hooking up to external displays, keyboards, mice, drives, and other peripherals that are needed to make it more of a desktop. Actually doing this makes it into a small expensive tower while being docked.
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post #317 of 557
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobmarksdale View Post

I think he was referring to the docking (although imaginary iDock shouldn't figure in here), and hooking up to external displays, keyboards, mice, drives, and other peripherals that are needed to make it more of a desktop. Actually doing this makes it into a small expensive tower while being docked.

OK. I don't agree but now I see where he's coming from.
post #318 of 557
Quote:
Originally Posted by killerapp View Post

Why should this memory cost anything really? There was a time (when I was in high school?) when 32KB RAM cost $900. There will be a time when 32TB costs $32. It's just silicon, which is the most plentiful substance in the crust of the earth.

Oxygen is the most plentiful substance in the rocks of the crust of the earth. Silicon is #2, followed by aluminum.\
post #319 of 557
I think the new iMac will look like this:

http://www.gateway.com/programs/profile6/


(Sorry, I had a long post previously, but it was deleted or not posted for some reason).

For a REAL shock, try their T our part way down the right side to see the brilliance (not) of their design team!!!!

post #320 of 557
Steve said they will be introducing some exciting new products this year and by golly they will



This event will contain 2 new products and an iMac update.

First the iMac

20" and 24"
2GB RAM std
2.2Ghz & 2.4Ghz Meroms
250GB Std on 20" and 500GB Std on 24"
Desktop nVidia GPUs
eSATA

Prices:
20" $1299
24" $1599


Secondly the Brand New MacBook Pro Nano

13.3" LED Screen
1.06Ghz & 1.2GHZ ULV processors
80GB HDD
2GB RAM
nVidia 8400m GPU
.8" Thick
2.5LBS
Magnesium Alloy
Magnetic Latch

Preview of what the next gen MBP 15" and 17" will look like

Price: $2099


Lastly the New xMac

2.33Ghz to 3.0 Ghz Core 2 Duo Processors
2GB RAM Std.
nVidia 8800 GTX GPU available
250GB-750GB HDD

Thinner and shorter than the Mac Pro but same Aluminum case.

Price: Starting at $899
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