Originally Posted by melgross
You twist the argument around.
Don't make me go back and quote every line you've posted. I've twisted WHAT? Be specific.
Apple also hasn't had a dock for so long that most people forget they ever had one.
So? Repeating that docks don't sell doesn't make it true. If docks don't sell then Dell, HP, etc would have none either. Saying because Apple doesn't sell a dock means that no one wants to buy any is the same as saying because Apple doesn't sell a mid-tower that no one wants to buy any.
Both statements are CLEARLY FALSE.
Your pointing out Toshiba simply doesn't matter. It's of no account.
Well...that's definitive. You say it doesn't matter so it must be true. Not.
Apple isn't a Windows company. Toshiba can exist because it IS a Windows company. People can buy Toshiba laptops, and Hp desktops. It doesn't matter.
Apple must sell both, because if a potential Apple customer wants a mid priced desktop, they MUST come to Apple.
And if a potential Apple customer wants a mid-tower they MUST come to Apple. Oh wait. They can't and yet Apple survives. So long as you can meet the core needs of a market segment then Apple can serve it. Apple has already PROVEN that it need not be in the optimum form factor or the lowest cost.
I know you want to ignore that, and maybe you can. But we don't have to.
First: I've shown that a MBP can fullfill every function of a iMac albeit at higher cost. Higher cost almost defines Apple.
Second: I've shown that the market for laptops is sufficiently large that Apple can continue to grow SIMPLY on laptop sales. Toshiba does count as a) it sells only laptops and b) its bigger.
Third: OSX is an ENABLING feature of going mobile. Not a hindrance. If Apple only made mobile products then you are constrained to buying ONLY mobile products. Just as you are constrained today to buy only laptops, AIOs, SFF and workstations and no mid-towers.
To say that a mid tower is not required because Apple hasn't had one in the lineup for so long is a preposterous statement. How do you know that it isn't desirable? You don't.
Desirable != required. Who's changing/twisting the argument now? Apple doesn't have a mid-tower in its line up and its market share is increasing and its stock price is stellar. IT SURE AS HELL AIN'T REQUIRED.
Nice to have? Perhaps. Jobs disagrees. If Jobs decides that the iMac is dead tomorrow, well heck, it may not be optimal but Apple sure will survive.
You point to a thread where a few might say they want a 20" luggable, but you ignore all of the people who have been calling for a mid tower? That's very selective.
Not at all. I never said that a mid-tower is not desirable EVEN in the mid-tower discussion. I have always said they aren't REQUIRED because, I dunno, they aren't and there's proof every time you open the Apple Store page.
YOU asked who wants one. I pointed you at a thread. Go argue with them whether a heavy desktop replacement is desirable. I personally don't care that much.
Your argument is not valid because you base it on a hypothetical product that doesn't exist. That, and the fact that only Apple produces OS X based products, means that what happens in the PC world can't happen here.
Yes, because monopoly control gives you LESS power over a market place rather than more. Say what?
Find me a top 5 computer company that sells only AIOs and SFF desktops. There aren't any. APPLE ALREADY DOES WHAT THE LARGER WINDOWS COMPUTER MARKET CAN NOT DO. Saying that a Windows company has more product flexibility than Apple goes against evidence as easily found as http://store.apple.com
. Apple sells millions of AIOs. No one else CAN.
OSX sells iMacs. Not as much the other way around.
OSX can't beat windows but it sure as hell gives Apple massive flexibility in its computer lineup in comparison to its windows competitors.
And, if you're correct, and the iMac is so undesirable compared to Apple's portables, as I've said, and you denied (but then repeated), then the reason why Apple sells so many portables compared to laptops is not, as you assert, because people want Mac laptops to such an overwhelming extent, but because they want a Mac, and the only desirable ones that don't cost an arm and a leg are the Mac Books, which are the much bigger selling of the two laptop lines Apple has (because it's cheaper).
Your paragraph attempts to put contradictory words in my mouth.
These are my statements:
The iMac is less desirable than xMac mid-towers.
The iMac represents lower value than most windows desktops.
The Apple laptops represent better value then iMacs when compared to windows counterparts. In some cases Apple laptops are equally good values in comparison to their windows counterparts.
One reason that Apple sells so many more laptops than desktops is due to the fact that laptops sales are growing very quickly. You can see this in Toshiba's growth numbers as well as that of Acer and HP mobile growth numbers. All exceed desktop growth numbers.
That Apple's desktops are strange form factors (SFF and AIOs) are a secondary factor. Even if Apple had mid-towers you would STILL see laptop sales growing far faster than desktop sales.
Finally, it is my opinion that Apple has optimized itself for laptop sales by using its desktop sales to subsidize laptop pricing. It uses merom and other laptop compnonents in the iMac to gain another 500,000 merom buys per qtr for larger discount from Intel. This translates to higher margins and/or lower notebook pricing at the expense of increased desktop sales. This is a strategic trade that Apple has deliberately made.
And so don't say that I've constrained the discussion, because you're the one who attempted to do so. If I grant you the possiubility of a dock, then you must grant me the possibility of a mid tower.
But, no tower, no dock. You can't have it your way.
It's that simple.
Jeez, stop being a little baby. You completely miss the point to boot.
Fine no dock...its not that critical anyway although I do consider it a primary convience factor to make things Apple simple.
Even with no dock there STILL isn't anything the iMac can do that the MBP cannot and there are MANY things the MBP can do that the iMac cannot.
Namely anything you can stick into an expresscard slot. These exist. I can buy an eSATA card for my MBP today and connect it to an external eSATA chassis. I can attach a 1-4 slot PCIe chassis to my MBP.
Do that with an iMac.
The dock makes it convienent as it would be very easy to attach and detach. I can see that Apple wants to go wireless except for MagSafe and for 90% of users it can. The dock makes it easier for the rest of us that still end up tethered to cables.