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ATT's Billing Rip-off

post #1 of 33
8/5/07 at 8:34pm
Thread Starter 
OK...... I am chastened, stunned, and will be the first to say that I should have read the fine print closer, but here's a tale of woe that should serve as a heads-up. (Btw, the fine print can be found at: http://www.wireless.att.com/learn/ar...hone-terms.jsp Good luck finding the relevant portion!).

I activated international voice roaming with the $5.99/month plan, for a week-long trip to Paris. As fully expected, I ended up with about $100 in voice call charges, at $0.99/min.

But here's the stunner: ATT socked me with a $1170 for 57.3MB of data access in Paris (a few email attachments, and occasional browsing of sites such as NYT and AI). Not once did the ATT rep mention that data would charged at this exorbitant rate. The only thing he did warn me about was the extra charge that I would incur if my phone was turned off and a call went to voicemail.

The Catch-22: The only way to disable data seems to be to disable the SIM card. But that, in turn, means that one can't use voice. That then raises the question, what is the logic for ATT selling international voice roaming service in the first place (unless they explicitly warn you about the data that necessarily gets included or add some sort of a caveat about what data could cost you)?

This is especially galling because the iPhone data plans are sold as "unlimited" in the US, leading one to conclude that it must be the default case everywhere, unless -- out of one's own volition (and sheer dumb luck) -- one asked.
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post #2 of 33
8/6/07 at 5:12am
I had a similar probably with email autocheck turned on while using a POP account (because I was ignorant and didn't know much about IMAP). My experience was posted on the Apple Core blog at blogs.zdnet.com/Apple
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post #3 of 33
8/6/07 at 6:47am
Thread Starter 
Wow, I am speechless.

I just finished a call with the ATT customer rep (I was waiting until Monday AM to do this, since I checked my bill online on Sunday). I explained the situation to her, and she said that it would have to be referred to a "high level adjustment team," and could I please wait a while since I would be put on hold.

I was on hold for about 15 minutes.

She came back on the line and said: "You should have been told about the data plan cost at the time of the international roaming sign-up. As a result, the entire data charge ($1100+) will be waived."

I think that is pretty impressive customer service on ATT's part!
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post #4 of 33
8/6/07 at 9:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Wow, I am speechless.

I just finished a call with the ATT customer rep (I was waiting until Monday AM to do this, since I checked my bill online on Sunday). I explained the situation to her, and she said that it would have to be referred to a "high level adjustment team," and could I please wait a while since I would be put on hold.

I was on hold for about 15 minutes.

She came back on the line and said: "You should have been told about the data plan cost at the time of the international roaming sign-up. As a result, the entire data charge ($1100+) will be waived."

I think that is pretty impressive customer service on ATT's part!

Nice to see a great resolution from AT&T.
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post #5 of 33
8/6/07 at 3:05pm
Yeah wow. They were reamed it in there without the lube. Nice to know they gave you that extra hand to pull it out.

$1170, no way is data worth that much! Remind me to leave the iPhone home as go tokyo drifting
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post #6 of 33
8/6/07 at 3:40pm
Since AT&T does not provide SIM unlock code (at this time anyway), Apple should at least provide"EDGE/GPRS off" setting. Even with "Auto-Check Mail" setting set to "Manual", Yahoo! push email will continue use EDGE/GPRS. Disabling Yahoo! email account is the only workaround, which prevents users from checking downloaded emails as well. And it's all to easy to accidentally tap "Stocks", "Maps", "Weather", "Safari", "YouTube", and "Mail" to initiate potential EDGE/GPRS data transfer.
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post #7 of 33
8/6/07 at 3:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Footloose301 View Post

... Remind me to leave the iPhone home as go tokyo drifting

Not a problem in Tokyo.
Japan doesn't have GSM service, so neither voice nor data will work there... but it's still an awesome WiFi device there
From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, "Look at that!" -...
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From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, "Look at that!" -...
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post #8 of 33
8/6/07 at 4:44pm
Thread Starter 
I would imagine that most -- if not all -- of these issues (esp. "keep int'l voice, lose int'l EDGE/GPRS data") could be easily fixed by Apple via a software update.

I hope it does so asap.
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post #9 of 33
8/8/07 at 7:28am
Thread Starter 
Another update, since the saga continues: Now ATT says that they will charge me ~$150 for the international data charges. While much better than the original charges of $1170, this does not square with what the rep told me on the phone. She said that all the charges would be reversed -- I guess she got vetoed.

I have emailed ATT for details of how this was arrived at, and no response yet.
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post #10 of 33
8/8/07 at 5:20pm
Quote:
I activated international voice roaming with the $5.99/month plan, for a week-long trip to Paris. As fully expected, I ended up with about $100 in voice call charges, at $0.99/min.

But here's the stunner: ATT socked me with a $1170 for 57.3MB of data access in Paris (a few email attachments, and occasional browsing of sites such as NYT and AI). Not once did the ATT rep mention that data would charged at this exorbitant rate. The only thing he did warn me about was the extra charge that I would incur if my phone was turned off and a call went to voicemail.



I've got you beat. I spent 2 weeks in Spain and France and was socked with a new customer welcome bonus of $1754.00. One Charge was for 1104.00 for data that I don't even remeber using. Can we say crooks

I regret switching to AT&T. I like the iPhone but AT&T SUCKS!!!!
Mac Pro Dual 3GHz Intel Core Duo and 30" Display, 15" Mac Book Pro, iPhone 4, iPad 64 3G 64
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Mac Pro Dual 3GHz Intel Core Duo and 30" Display, 15" Mac Book Pro, iPhone 4, iPad 64 3G 64
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post #11 of 33
8/19/07 at 1:31am
Hey, Blinkdt, I have a question for you:

You went to the trouble to register at an Apple enthusiast site, and all of your posts so far have been sneering trolls about how deluded the "fan boys" are and what a horrible operation Apple is.

So, my question is, don't you have anything better to do with your time? Is there something you do like, that you could get involved with and discuss with other people that like it as well?

Because going so far out of your way for nothing more than to belittle people who like something you don't? Creepy. Well, pathetic, but mostly.....creepy.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #12 of 33
8/19/07 at 10:21am
Thread Starter 
Hey blinkdt: Not trying to be snarky here, but I could care less about your feelings towards Steve Jobs. It really does not affect my attitude towards Apple or SJ one way or another. Except, this is specifically a forum attempting to address iPhone billing issues (the topic header should be a clue), and it would be great if you could stay on topic.
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post #13 of 33
8/19/07 at 5:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by blinkdt View Post

@anantksundaram Roger that, I'll try harder to stick to the thread's topic. And no, I don't expect I'll change any attitudes here: any Apple afficionado subscribing to this forum is probably too far gone to be helped. I'll keep reading.

Yep, we're way passed gone.

You're right blinkdt, Macs are expensive and aren't for the poor. A Lexus is a ripoff to those that cannot afford them, but for the owners that can, they are nice cars.

Your anecdotal evidence of your uncle sending his MacBook back can be countered by those (like me) who have had an iMac and a PowerBook for 3 years and never once sent it back for repair or had any problems with it. However, like any computer manufacturer, the more advanced the technology, the more likely it is to give one problems. It's human nature. To argue that a PC doesn't have problems is ridiculous. Apple has consistently ranked high in customer satisfaction, so the majority of Mac users must not need to send their products back to Apple twice in six months.
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post #14 of 33
8/19/07 at 6:15pm
  • e1618978
  • will burn in the Fiery Pit of Hell.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blinkdt View Post

Hey, iHarry, how much did you pay for that "Mac Pro Dual 3GHz Intel Core Duo and 30" Display" of yours?

A lot less than the PC competition would cost - for some reason the Mac Pro is way less than the equivalent Dell. Macs in general are comparable in price to Dells, except the Mac Pro which is a lot less than a Dell (and way better, to boot).
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
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45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
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post #15 of 33
8/19/07 at 11:40pm
Troll deleted - JL
Sounds like soomeone forgot to take their pill this morning.
Mac Pro Dual 3GHz Intel Core Duo and 30" Display, 15" Mac Book Pro, iPhone 4, iPad 64 3G 64
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Mac Pro Dual 3GHz Intel Core Duo and 30" Display, 15" Mac Book Pro, iPhone 4, iPad 64 3G 64
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post #16 of 33
8/21/07 at 12:15pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by blinkdt View Post

@anantksundaram Roger that, I'll try harder to stick to the thread's topic. And no, I don't expect I'll change any attitudes here: any Apple afficionado subscribing to this forum is probably too far gone to be helped. ........

Gee, you sure sound like you like to sound clever!

Except, I use "forum" (not capitalized) in the normal dictionary sense of the term..... e.g., "a public meeting place for open discussion" or "a medium for open discussion or voicing of ideas, such as a newspaper, a radio or television program, or a website." (Source: American Heritage Dictionary).

Back to iPhone billing. Has anyone tried putting the iPhone on the airplane mode abroad? And, just turning it back on for a quick call, or to check VM, or only in a wifi area?

It's really stupid that Apple lets you turn off wifi, but not EDGE/GPRS.
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post #17 of 33
8/22/07 at 7:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by blinkdt View Post

@anantksundaram Roger that, I'll try harder to stick to the thread's topic. And no, I don't expect I'll change any attitudes here: any Apple afficionado subscribing to this forum is probably too far gone to be helped. I'll keep reading.


you could probably not _change_ attitudes; but, rather, inform people through intelligent, articulate conversation so they might have the choice to assimilate or not assimilate your ideas.

what a strange creature you lot are. Trolls, ugh. Can't live with 'em, can't live with 'em.



congrats on getting that $1000+ ATT bill sorted out. They probably didn't have to do that (give you the credit) since, in some deep dark inaccessible basement, there does exist some "clear" information about how they have the right to charge you those exorbitant data rates.
an aye for an eye, the truth is a lie; a fish cannot whistle & neither can I.
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an aye for an eye, the truth is a lie; a fish cannot whistle & neither can I.
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post #18 of 33
8/25/07 at 9:21pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by user23 View Post

Trolls, ugh. Can't live with 'em, can't live with 'em.



You have to go through life expecting that hope can trump experience....... otherwise you become a cynic.
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post #19 of 33
8/25/07 at 11:06pm
To be honest he may be talking some shite but much of what he says is also true and there are plenty of people on this forum that make it so easy for him. You cannot deny that there are many pathetic Apple fans on these forums that will defend every single decision and product that Apple produce with little evidence to back them up aside from the classic "Steve Jobs is god" defence.

In fact many Apple fans remind me of right wing Christians, The whole idea of organised religion is based on die hard belief in what you are told and a refusal to even look at the evidence that says otherwise, It aint called the cult of the Mac for nothing.

If there is no way to disable wireless data on the iPhone and Apple are fully aware of the blatant profiteering that is the AT&T international data rates then Apple must take some of the responsibility for this. This is a 1st Generation product from a company who has never made a phone before, Apple have decided not to learn from the existing phone marketplace and implement simple, basic features that they should have. I am sure that improvements will be made in future models, but it would have been so easy for them to do some research prior to designing this one and this one is so very very flawed. It is probably one of the worst phones in the world combined with probably the best media player in the world, great if you want a new ipod but sucks if you want a phone.

There will still be plenty of people on these foums that will disagree and who are very much of the attitude that Apple knows more then anyone else and the iPhone is groundbreaking and Apple have re-designed the mobile phone and it has cover flow and Nokia don't know what they are doing etc... . But you are wrong, and you can admit it, honestly, you will still go to Steve Jobs heaven even if are sometimes honest about some Apple products.
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post #20 of 33
8/26/07 at 1:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by murphyweb View Post

To be honest he may be talking some shite but much of what he says is also true and there are plenty of people on this forum that make it so easy for him. You cannot deny that there are many pathetic Apple fans on these forums that will defend every single decision and product that Apple produce with little evidence to back them up aside from the classic "Steve Jobs is god" defence.

In fact many Apple fans remind me of right wing Christians, The whole idea of organised religion is based on die hard belief in what you are told and a refusal to even look at the evidence that says otherwise, It aint called the cult of the Mac for nothing.

If there is no way to disable wireless data on the iPhone and Apple are fully aware of the blatant profiteering that is the AT&T international data rates then Apple must take some of the responsibility for this. This is a 1st Generation product from a company who has never made a phone before, Apple have decided not to learn from the existing phone marketplace and implement simple, basic features that they should have. I am sure that improvements will be made in future models, but it would have been so easy for them to do some research prior to designing this one and this one is so very very flawed. It is probably one of the worst phones in the world combined with probably the best media player in the world, great if you want a new ipod but sucks if you want a phone.

There will still be plenty of people on these foums that will disagree and who are very much of the attitude that Apple knows more then anyone else and the iPhone is groundbreaking and Apple have re-designed the mobile phone and it has cover flow and Nokia don't know what they are doing etc... . But you are wrong, and you can admit it, honestly, you will still go to Steve Jobs heaven even if are sometimes honest about some Apple products.

Hey look, it's Arty McStrawman! Hanging out on these forums, always talking about how Steve Jobs is God and Apple never does anything wrong..... and you just know when anyone disagrees with a particular criticism of a particular Apple product, it must be because they are mindless zealots! What other explanation could there be?
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #21 of 33
8/26/07 at 2:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Hey look, it's Arty McStrawman! Hanging out on these forums, always talking about how Steve Jobs is God and Apple never does anything wrong..... and you just know when anyone disagrees with a particular criticism of a particular Apple product, it must be because they are mindless zealots! What other explanation could there be?

So i take it you disagree? You really believe that there are no people on these forums that are like that?
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post #22 of 33
8/26/07 at 12:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by murphyweb View Post

So i take it you disagree? You really believe that there are no people on these forums that are like that?

I think there are Apple enthusiasts that will tend to give Apple the benefit of the doubt, or wax rhapsodic over a particular piece of tech because they genuinely dig it.

That is quite a bit different, however, than insisting the Jobs is God or that Apple can do no wrong.

I responded to your post particularly because I've noticed a strong trend in tech commentary around the web: Apple gets dissed for some decision or another, someone posts that they disagree with the criticism, and there is immediately a storm of eye-rolling expressions of disgust at the mindless "fan boys" and how they can't stand for their cult leader Jobs to be denied in any way whatsoever, this response being depressingly predictable no matter how mild, or nuanced, or actually substantiative the response to the original criticism of Apple may be.

It's gotten to the point that the "stinking Apple fan boy cult pussies" rhetoric is actually way more prevalent than any detectable Apple cheerleading. The fan boy bashers are far more irritating than the fan boys, who typically are merely saying things like "gee, that's not my experience, the iPhone works great for me."

Not so much on this site, or course, but that's not really surprising, considering its focus. But certainly our little troll is representative of the type, and his sneering contempt for Apple's products and customers doesn't really deserve the "he has a point" endorsement. If there's the germ of an actual observation in there, it's obscured by garden variety troll hyperbole and animosity.

The "Artie McStrawman" thing isn't my invention, it comes from a blog somewhere (forgot which one) which sometimes takes to task this precise species of lazy "Apple fan boys think Apple can do no wrong and Steve Jobs is God" crap which appears, somewhat regularly, in even mainstream tech articles, as the all purpose response to any defense of Apple or its products.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #23 of 33
8/26/07 at 4:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by blinkdt View Post

Troll . . . strawman . . . hey, whatever self-delusion makes you more comfortable with your purchase, I suppose. Truth has a way of hurting when it slaps you in the face...

first, i thought you where just misinformed, lacking proper information.
you know singing along with the crowd...

then i thought you where just a troll.

but now i know: you just one funny guy


please don't stop
peve

and by the way...
no. english is not my native language.
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peve

and by the way...
no. english is not my native language.
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post #24 of 33
9/7/07 at 10:04pm
"He who battles [fanboys] should take care to not become one, for when you stare into the void, the void stares also into you."

Same with trolls.
MacBook Pro C2D 2.4GHz and a battle-scarred PowerBook G4 1.33GHz

"When you gaze long into a dead pixel, the dead pixes gazes also into you"
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MacBook Pro C2D 2.4GHz and a battle-scarred PowerBook G4 1.33GHz

"When you gaze long into a dead pixel, the dead pixes gazes also into you"
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post #25 of 33
9/8/07 at 2:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by blinkdt View Post

Troll . . . strawman . . . hey, whatever self-delusion makes you more comfortable with your purchase, I suppose. Truth has a way of hurting when it slaps you in the face.

And now that the iPhone has been hacked, you have a CHOICE of carriers. Free at last, free at last, thank God almighty you are free at last! If you can implement the hack, of course.

Do you not understand that the minions at Apple designed this thing to restrict you for their own gain? That profiteering has been built into this thing from every angle? Or, like a spoiled brat, do you simply not care? "Children starving in Africa," and this is how you allocate your funds. I'm serious. Whatever the market will bear, I suppose. He screws you over and you actually feel GOOD about it. I am genuinely amazed.

OK, that's it for me, I'm outta here.


You are making a complete ass of yourself. Guess thats the benefit of posting on the internet.
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post #26 of 33
9/8/07 at 4:54pm
This one's for wirc...

"If I had played my career hitting singles like Pete (Rose), I'd wear a dress." - Mickey Mantle
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"If I had played my career hitting singles like Pete (Rose), I'd wear a dress." - Mickey Mantle
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post #27 of 33
9/8/07 at 5:43pm
hey Anankt.
Just joined this thread (thanks to a pointer from another thead).
Im glad you got some relief on those charges.
Im sorry your thread got all trolled up (Some people need to get a life--Blinked and Murph Im lookin at you)

Joe
Progress is a comfortable disease
--e.e.c.
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Progress is a comfortable disease
--e.e.c.
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post #28 of 33
9/9/07 at 7:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by blinkdt View Post

"You are making a complete ass of yourself." That said by a member called "MacSuperiority." Sheesh.

iPhones cost too much at purchase, they cost too much to use, they cost too much to maintain, and they cost too much to repair. Same can be said of all Apple products.

Them's the facts, kids. And that's why Apple will always be a muddled substitute for the real thing. *slap*

You really don't know what you're talking about. Us early adopters were charged $600. Not overcharged. We agreed to pay that price. Apple did NOT have to give us a $100 gift card. Either way I don't feel overcharged and I don't know who does. Secondly, the new $400 price is pretty sweet. If you've used an iPhone, you'd know what I mean, it's really worth it. Thirdly, how much do they cost to use? Your plan. $60 bucks or so. If you go out of the country, and you called ATT before, and the DO NOT inform you of any charges that occur on your next bill, they will remove the charges. Yea, I actually KNOW FROM EXPERIENCE, Mr. My uncle has a Mac. Maintaining the iPhone ? I don't know what you mean. Repair, nothings wrong with my iPhone, what about yours? And the same thing cannot be said about all Apple products, I have many of them, they are pretty damn reliable. I've used PC's. I've used Macs. Thats way more than you can see, dumbass...

By the way, that $2000 MacBook you configured, that's just not possible.
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post #29 of 33
9/10/07 at 4:40am
ok who ever configured it, whatever. Yea, every battery needs replacement. Thats the case with every rechargable battery.

What bus was i on. Great. Now i know you've been alive since the '08's. You're an old man who knows what hes talking about.

Macs are not overpriced. Prove it.
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post #30 of 33
9/10/07 at 8:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by blinkdt View Post

I've worked with and around Macs and PCs since before you were born. Hey, Tom's Hardware has a nice review of Apple's paltry Apple desktop offerings of late. The verdict . . . they are outrageously overpriced, they look sleek, and they suck. Oh, did I mention that they look cool? Use your $100 on one of them, by all means.

Since you believe Tom's Hardware...here's an article they posted in their "Tom's Guide" review on the current top seller in Apple's lineup...
http://www.geardigest.com/2007/02/07...pro/page2.html
Quote:
MacBook Pro hardware is very competitive with higher end laptops. While the Pro's graphics capability is somewhat less than you might wish for, the CPU is on the higher end in this price range. It is very hard to get everything you would like in a laptop, but in the $1700 to $2000 price range Apple's MacBook Pro is very competitive with any vendor's laptop in a part for part comparison.

So... who missed the bus?

The conclusion of the article:
Quote:
For now the company has at least one convert.

I think your bus left, blinkdt.
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post #31 of 33
9/10/07 at 12:38pm
Mr. Blinkdt's bus has indeed left.

Please do not make any more replies to his trolling posts. He won't see them anyway.
--Johnny
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--Johnny
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post #32 of 33
9/10/07 at 2:34pm
Thanks, lundy!
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post #33 of 33
9/10/07 at 5:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kephisto View Post

Thanks, lundy!

Eh, I misspoke a little. He can read them but not reply to them.
--Johnny
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--Johnny
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