Should apple include a numeric pad on the wireless keyboard?

I think a better question is should apple have a wireless keyboard with integrated trackpad?

I voted no. Here is my reasoning.

Pros:
Without the number pad, the keyboard is lighter and smaller. One of the reasons people require a wireless keyboard is for portability.
With the keypad out, its balanced for typing on your lap.
Easy to store in a drawer or other small space.

Cons:
The 10key is very useful for data entry.
As a desktop keyboard replacement it's not an ideal replacement.
Missing useful keys suck as forward delete and page up/down keys.
Small cursor keys.

Should have included the number keypads in the wireless version. That is why I did not get the wireless version with my 20" I just ordered. All of my paswords include patterns from the keypad.

Plus from what I hear there is like an extra 2-week shipping wait if you get the wireless keyboard.

Huh? Trackpad? Why do you think notebook owners also own mice?

Well at least they could offer two wireless versions. One with a number-pad for $10 more. It would keep everyone happy.

Oh fu** keeping a few whiners happy.

A Wireless keyboard is for portability. Yes the market for a huge ass wireless keyboard is just red hot and smoking. Apple needs to be focused on other important needs rather than worrying about a f***ing numeric keypad on a wireless keyboard.

Hey I'm not complaining. I got a cool new keyboard with a numeric pad that will never be away from my computer. Others are getting a keyboard without. Thats cool.

So where are you going with this wireless keyboard? I'm just trying to picture you sitting at your computer desk thinking; "Well, I'd like to take this over to the couch 5 feet away, but dang! they went and put a friggin numeric keypad on the side. Just forget it! Or perhaps you are going to take just the keyboard down to starbucks. It's out of range of your iMac back at home and you couldn't see the screen from their anyways, but yeah! it fits in your backpack! Wahoo!

How else can I clear data in the calculator widget without the Clear button?

A wireless keyboard with integrated trackpad is much easier to use when sitting on the sofa than a wireless keyboard and seperate mouse.

Why does the guy with an iMac or Mac Pro need a wireless keyboard? Making a wireless keyboard with a keypad makes a boat load of sense to the MB and MBP user who wants a full keyboard layout. The fact that Apple offers no port replicator or docking solution for MBP users who may travel daily with their computer, yields yet another valid reason to have a wireless extended keyboard solution... thats one less wire to connect and disconnect daily. Without a doubt, the current keyboard's niche seems to be the Home Theatre, but wouldn't you also want to integrate some kind of pointing device to complete the offering?

So you're telling me that MB/MBP users are going to spend $50-80 on a keyboard which is %65 duplication of what they need when they could simply buy one of a plethora of USB Numeric Keypads?

Sounds a bit foolish when you take the size of a full size keyboard into accord. Home Theatre systems generally have simplified UI that can be navidated with arrow keys quite effectively.

I think these are the cries of a vocal minority

Excellent question.

For me it comes down to 2 things:

1 - Page up / Page down. Having to use 2 hands (fn + down) is a pain in the ass, unless on the laptop itself, where the trackpad is right under your thumbs, and not to the right of the keyboard.

2 - For playing games. I play WoW, personally, and I need the full number pad, and all the F1 - F13+ buttons (without holding FN to use them), for attacks, abilities, and macros.

I require full keyboard functionality while maintaining my wireless lifestyle.

- Xidius

Didn't read the whole thread...

Ditch the numeric pad and put a trackpad in instead.
L/R versions & off course with BT...

To push it some more ditch BT, add wifi, add headphone socket, microphone, isight & make the trackpad a touch sensitive screen like the iphone. To see what you're doing when U cant look directly at your screen.

Yeye battery life...

Agree, portability=wireless=less of the un-needed.

Excuse the dumb question but, I am about to order the imac with the wireless keyboard. It says that an existing keyboard and mouse is required for setup. Does that mean, if I choose the wireless keyboard and mouse they wont actually function from the initial setup? Sorry, first mac, first wireless device.

Thanks

Just get the air-mouse and use it from across the room.Im not sure if there are any drivers for mac, i doubt it, but you could probably write your own or find one somwhere.

I agree, what's the point replicating the smaller layout - I want an extended keyboard for my MacBook Pro but will have to put up with more wires tangling up in my bag.

The new wireless keyboard is perfect, I have been looking for such a keyboard for ages (to allow me to dock my PB without having to use a sucky big keyboard). Already ordered two.

The small wireless keyboard would also work extremely well with a Mac mini under the TV...

Most PC-people at my work have switched to small and flat keyboards for ergonomic reasons (although some also have separate numpads).
Having a keyboard without numpad is much better from an ergonomic point of view as this puts the normal QWERTY-keys right in front of you + enables you to hold the mouse (if right handed) with the right arm closer to your body. A really flat keyboard (ideally one that is higher closer to you) is better for the wrists as you don't have to bend them upwards when typing.

Gonna miss my trackpad (two-finger scrolling rocks) when docking the PB though.
Wish Apple could have made a wireless keyboard with a PB layout - including back lit keys and a trackpad!

Yup, they're definitely missing a trick here. Man, if I were in charge of Apple...

I'm still paranoid. I know I'm going to attacked for this, but I have to add my 2 cents here.

I've always thought extended keyboards were lopsided. When the board is centered with the monitor, the letter keys are too far to the left to be comfortable. When I've centered just the letter key part of the board, my coworkers say it doesn't look right. The devil with what it looks like. It's easier to use.

I think the arrow keys; page up & down, help, home, etc. keys should be on the left side, so the board would be balanced and, for me, would be easier to use. Who said that everything should be done by the right hand - mouse, number pad, arrow keys, etc? I've been cussing the current key layout for as long as I can remember - since the early '80's.

Well, my pappy and his pappy and his pappy allus did it thet-a-way and what's good enuff fer them's good enuff fer me. Hell, some keyboards still have a scroll key and other cr_p keys on them.
Why is there a return key and an enter key when they do the same thing. I'm referring to the names not that there's two of them.
What's the num lock/ clear button for? The one on my Mac board doesn't lock or clear anything. Why can't the Function keys be programmed since they don't accomplish much anyway?

Well, I'm glad that's out of my system. Gentlemen, start your (flaming) engines.

Yes, that's because you have to set up the bluetooth connection to use them which requires input devices (keyboard and mouse)


umm... did you just argue both sides of that and come to a conclusion?


you mean like a left-handed keyboard?



Because sometimes they actually do different things.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enter_key (check out the carriage return key for origin)



Numlock is used to allow access to the numpad as opposed to the numpad being used for arrow keys
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Num_Lock
The clear key is the same as the numlock key but since nowadays the numlock usually doesn't do anything, the name is changed as not to confuse people. It also has other uses such as clearing the calculator as mentioned by Galley.

The function keys can be programmed. Go to Sys. Prefs.-->Keyboard % Mouse-->Keyboard Shortcuts, then hit the '+' button, pick the app(s) you want it to work with and choose a function key to do it.

Sorry, I'm relatively new to flaming, so if someone else can be more sarcastic and sardonic about this, please feel free to do so.

No, I think he meant that if the arrow keys; page up & down, help, home, etc. keys were on the left, but the number pad stayed on the right, the keyboard would then be balanced, as the "main" QWERTY part of the keyboard would be in the middle. It's an interesting idea.

My setup is balanced and IMO it's about as efficient and ergonomic overall as you can get before jumping into $100+ ergo keyboards. I've had the keyboard and Powermate for two years. The mouse position is important and it's usually almost scraping the keyboard, closer than in the picture. I only need 20cm of hand movement and no moving of the elbow to switch between typing and the mouse on the right hand, or between typing and a quick adjustment on the Powermate on the left. 2000dpi on the mouse means I'd have to move the mouse for a mere inch to cover the full desktop at 1:1 mapping - OS X has very lacking mouse adjustment options though, and that setting is not possible AFAIK even by commandline hacking.

The Apple wireless board looks like the best thing (and not just keyboard) they have made in a good while. There are way too few keyboards that are free from the numeric pad curse. I might well buy one, need to try one at the store though. Is the key mechanism exactly the same as in a Macbook?

Well, I learned something new today. That's what comes of not "RTFM'. Of course, I've been told by other members of this august forum that a manual isn't needed. Just fly by the seat of your pants - so to speak.

To your first question - no, I didn't just come to that conclusion. I keep moving my work keyboard, so that the letter keys are centered, and whoever uses it after me moves it back so that the keyboard itself is centered. I can't even go to lunch without someone moving it. Not a biggy, but annoying just the same.

No, I didn't mean to shift the number keys and arrow keys over to the left; that would just unbalance the board in the other direction. I meant leave the number pad on the right and move the arrow keys, etc. to the left.

My apple keyboard num lock does not do anything as far as I know, but I will try to follow your suggestions. I'm always ready to learn new things - like how do you reply to a post in parts as you did. I haven't figured that out yet. Please educate me. I really want to know.

The best thing you've suggested is that the Function keys can be programed (or as some spell it - programmed - both are probably right. I just threw that in because someone is bound to call me on it).

I really appreciate the fact that you explained to my ignorance without slashing my throat. Thanks.

BTW, did you read a manual or just learn by trial and error? Where do you find the time to learn all this and
still have time to use this forum and do all your other chores? I seem to be falling behind on my life's treadmill no matter how fast I run.

Thanks for sticking up for me, Mr. H. I guess it's too soon to call you Dr. H. Keep me posted.

Because my keyboard is shifted to the right and I don't use a mouse pad (optical mouse), my mouse DOES scrape, well bump anyway, the keyboard. I use a Logitech mouse and, like yours, I can sweep across a 22" monitor and into a second 22" monitor with very little finger (no wrist) motion. The heel of my hand is resting on my desk. The only problem I have with that is sometimes I can't find the cursor, especially when I first wake up the computer. Sometimes it's on the second monitor which hasn't been turned on yet. Two 22" monitors is a lot of real estate for the cursor to get lost in. If someone knows a way to make the cursor flash or something when the computer wakes up, please pass it on. That would beat waving the mouse around until the cursor comes into view.

I can't agree more. I have a pull-out keyboard drawer. With the mouse on the right, a full size keyboard puts the alpha keys way off center to the left. So I've been using a keyboard which at least forgoes the home/page up/page down/arrow keys section. Even that's not good enough so I ordered two of Apple's new wireless keyboards within minutes of reading about them. (The second is for my HTPC mini.)

I didn't vote in this poll because I think Apple should offer all four kinds of keyboards; two wired and two wireless. I'd like to have one with the wireless layout, only wired, so it has the USB 2 ports. If these new keyboards prove to be popular, I'd expect two more to be offered before long.

Notice how whenever you click on the 'quote' button, there appears at the beginning a '[' then 'QUOTE' then ']' (obviously without any spaces or quotes). At the end there is the same thing with a '/' before the 'QUOTE' (you can see for yourself whenever you quote someone). So, by typing this in around whatever blocks of text you want, and then typing a response in between these blocks, you can reply in parts.


I learn most everything by trial and error, asking questions in places such as this, and google. And since I am a high school student, and it is still summer vacation, I have few other 'chores' to do. Hence why I can waste so much time here.

no, but they should include a track ball or pad, as others have said

Thanks. I love this situation - a student teaching a teacher. I'd like a lot of students like you in my college classes. So many students I try to teach just want a grade; they're not interested in learning.

Bingo. I would purchase both - a numpad and non-numpad version. When I do data entry, I make many fewer errors with the number pad, but for writing papers, the smaller keyboard is simpler and easier to balance on my lap.

I can't imagine paying bills, doing invoices and all the business side of freelancing without the numberpad. I would have bought a wireless version had they offered it. So Apple lost a little money on me.

I agree, if you do bookkeeping regularly, a number pad is almost essential.

Doing accounting without sitting right in front of a computer is somewhat unusual. The wireless keyboard is better suited for sitting on the couch doing more casual computing.

I ordered a wireless keyboard with my Mac Pro which in hindsight was a mistake because I don't use it at any distance from the computer, and it is slow to wake up when you turn it on in the morning, which is annoying. Next time I will order a wired keyboard for business computing. A wireless mouse is useful though because a wired one sometimes gets snagged or tangled.

Some people just want to eliminate all wires for esthetic reasons but that is somewhat of a secondary concern for me. The new wireless keyboards may a little better in terms of the sleeping issue but I haven't used one yet.

I agree. For years, I used a wireless keyboard with a PC. But it was in a keyboard drawer (which made no sense except esthetically -big deal.) Of course, the drawer itself made no sense because it centered the keyboard which forced the typist to move off center to the left in order to use the alpha keys. I ended up moving the display to the left.

I did try to use the keyboard on my lap, which was awkward, and on a keyboard stand a couple of feet from the display (needed stronger glasses to see the display). My current set up is on the desk in front of the display. The keyboard is wired, but my mouse, like yours, is wireless. Best options for me. Others may feel differently. As I mentioned in another post, the new wireless keyboard is more easily centered, but that's not enough reason for me to buy one. The few inches of cord showing does not bother me since I don't have to drag it around like a mouse wired mouse.

You got that right, mate!

the num pad might be under used for english keyboards, but in france for example, the numbers in the row above the letters are used with the shift key (seeing as accented letters and punctuation are used more often). In the end you use the numpad for all numbers.