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Apple stirs controversy with iMovie's '08 overhaul - Page 3

post #81 of 279
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clive At Five View Post

Ohhhhh, noob, you didn't...

Obviously you don't understand. Do you think Apple is going to continue to support and upgrade iMovie 06? If you do, you're dreaming. The free download is an attempt at passifying the angry users who ACTUALLY MAKE USE OF THE CAPABILITIES APPLE CUT FROM THE SOFTWARE.

All this being said, yes I can download and run '06, but how long do you think I can use it before it no longer runs on my hardware... or before camera technology surpasses what the software is capable of? You cannot deny that at some point in time, iMovie '06 will cease to run on new hardware. Nor can you guarantee that newer versions of iMovie will regain the fuctionality that was cut in '08.

Apple may be able to pull the wool over your eyes, and for that, I feel sorry for you. Have fun in your gumdrop and candy cane world. I, on the other hand, refuse to let Apple [take unconsented-to advantage of me via ye ol' corn-hole].

And how old are you? "Whiney fat asses?"

AI, can we "citizen's ban" idiots?

-Clive


How far into the future are you thinking, like OS11 or somthing. Even if apple did a complete overhaul of the entire system, they would most likly either provide a way for old OSX apps to work in the new version or, they would include a emulator like thing, like they did with OS9.


The only major problem would be if they changed hardware again so they used AMD or some new format of processor, in which case you could use some emulator/ dual boot thing to run OSX.


No they wont provide updates to it, but there shouldnt be to many bugs if you run it in a future system, i can still run old OS10.1 apps without modifying them, on my iBook that is.
post #82 of 279
Quote:
Originally Posted by suhail View Post

These are very serious issues, especially the lack of compatibility with G4's.
Only Jobs has the balls to pull such stunts on his users, I wonder where he's going with this.

I seem to remember a widely used OS (giving people an eXPerience) that got updated just last year that meant that THOUSANDS couldn't upgrade as their machines couldn't cope with the load it requires on their hardware - with one manufacturer even pulling it as an option on most of their laptops/desktops !!!

It ain't just Steve that has to make decisions to not keep software "tied back" just to be compatible with hardware from years ago !!
post #83 of 279
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestro64 View Post

I would have to agree they really screwed up this time, I smell a lawsuit coming Apple's way.

So the answer to any change someone doesn't like it to take legal action\ On what grounds? Bacause they replace a program and some don't like the new one even though the old one is still around. Some people just need to get a life.
post #84 of 279
When Apple releases revisions that add back functionality for iMovie 08 everyone will shut up; and only a few will admit they jumped the gun.
post #85 of 279
Forget the iMovie controversy. I WANT TO KNOW WHAT HAPPENED TO iLIFE 07!?!?!
post #86 of 279
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clive At Five View Post

Ohhhhh, noob, you didn't...


And how old are you? "Whiney fat asses?"

AI, can we "citizen's ban" idiots?

-Clive

Seconded. Seems like we get a lot of new members these days that think they can just start throwing shit around, right out of the gate. Kinda irritating.
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post #87 of 279
I don't really have anything new to add, but I thought I'd throw a few thoughts in.

I've made a few short videos with previous versions of iMovie, and I think after playing with it a bit, I'm pretty sure that what I've done would have been impossible in iMovie 08. I still have iMovie HD, it's true, but I'm not too confident that, should any compatibility issues come up after OS 10.5 comes out, Apple will continue to update it to keep it working. Under-the-hood OS updates have broken legacy software before. What do we do if installing Leopard, or one of its updates breaks iMovie HD, and Apple takes it's time fixing it, or decides not to fix it at all? Also, as others have noted, it seems very unlikely that iMovie HD will be updated to accept any of the newer video formats.

The other issue that worries me is the possibility that iMovie 08 represents a more general movement with Apple's consumer-level apps. I use GarageBand a lot. The new version has a bunch of very nice new features, but the only one Steve focused on in his demo was the "Magic Garageband" thing, which I played with for about 3 minutes and which I will probably never use again. I worry now that Apple will decide that GB is an app for podcasters and people who want to shove a few loops around to provide a soundtrack for their iMovie video clips before they upload them to YouTube.

I remember when iMovie first came out, a lot of people thought that in putting out a really solid, easy to use video editor, Apple was "democratizing" video production. Apple is now officially out of that business. It's true that editing a movie is different to, and harder than, shoving a few clips together and posting them to YouTube. Apple has evidently decided that they needed to make a choice between people who wanted to sit and take the time to actually edit a video and people who want the shortest path from their camera to Web 2.0. With iMovie 08, they chose the latter.
post #88 of 279
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hatchet View Post

Forget the iMovie controversy. I WANT TO KNOW WHAT HAPPENED TO iLIFE 07!?!?!

yea, i bet its in some pre alpha stage somewhere. They probably just ran out of resouces and said, screw it lets just skip a year.
post #89 of 279
It's funny that so many people seem to know exactly what "consumers" want, what Apple's customers want, what switchers want.

When Apple released iLife 08, there was no mention of letting people download iMovie 06. That came later (though fairly soon), probably because so many people complained. It seems like it wasn't in Apple's plans to continue the functionality of iMovie 06. I'm hoping they realize this was a mistake.

Look at some of the things iMovie 08 is missing from the previous version:

1. There is no way to edit exactly where you want: you cannot stop the movie exactly where you want, or move ahead or back one frame at a time. This should be a feature of any movie editing app, even a simple one.
2. You can change the length of fades, but not individually - only for the movie as a whole. Every fade out and fade in in a movie must be the same length.
3. I don't personally use effects other than fades, but 08 has dropped many many transitions and effects, and made third-party plug-ins useless.
4. Sound - you can't fade sound down at a specific point to get rid of an errant noise, or fade down the movie track and fade up the music, or fade out a song and fade in another one where you want. Only two sound sources can be used at a time - the one that was shot with the video, and one track (music, etc.) you can add. You can raise or lower the volume of the added track, but only all at once - the whole track is raised or lowered, not individual parts.
5. No chapter markers. Jobs said nobody wants to use DVDs anymore, everything will be done on the web - he's wrong about that. Do you want a DVD of your wedding video, or is it okay if it's just stored on the web?
6. iMovie 08 will not open movies made in iMovie 06. This fact alone should have led Apple to come up with a name other than iMovie.

I make instructional videos (DVDs). I've found iMovie 06 (and 05 before that) pretty easy to use, especially the video editing part (the sound editing is harder to learn). It has a couple of interface annoyances, but it does pretty much everything I want or need it to do. And I have fun using it - I like it.
post #90 of 279
Quote:
Originally Posted by elroth View Post

...missing from the previous version:

1. There is no way to edit exactly where you want: you cannot stop the movie exactly where you want, or move ahead or back one frame at a time. This should be a feature of any movie editing app, even a simple one.
2. You can change the length of fades, but not individually - only for the movie as a whole. Every fade out and fade in in a movie must be the same length.
3. I don't personally use effects other than fades, but 08 has dropped many many transitions and effects, and made third-party plug-ins useless.
4. Sound - you can't fade sound down at a specific point to get rid of an errant noise, or fade down the movie track and fade up the music, or fade out a song and fade in another one where you want. Only two sound sources can be used at a time - the one that was shot with the video, and one track (music, etc.) you can add. You can raise or lower the volume of the added track, but only all at once - the whole track is raised or lowered, not individual parts.
5. No chapter markers. Jobs said nobody wants to use DVDs anymore, everything will be done on the web - he's wrong about that. Do you want a DVD of your wedding video, or is it okay if it's just stored on the web?
6. iMovie 08 will not open movies made in iMovie 06. This fact alone should have led Apple to come up with a name other than iMovie.

Yes, as you and others have stated there are clear and important omissions from iMovie '08. The Steve Jobs presentation, declaring it to be so different to the earlier version, could not have reasonably been judged to imply that significant omissions had been made. The emphasis was on ease-of-use developments but the remainder of the feature-set was trusted to be at least constant and probably enhanced a bit further. To not manage expectations regarding the feature-set changes was a mistake.

It seems Apple have effectively acknowledged that by releasing the free iMovie '06 edition for those that do not have it already. (I guess that was also to help those disappointed by the relatively high spec of system required for iMovie '08. An on-screen alert when purchasing via the AppleStore would have suitably managed expectations on that one and avoided the surprise when running the installer; most of us would have bought it anyway but we would have bought it with enhanced knowledge and clear expectations).

One person said above, iTools was free and then came .Mac and charging; well, this is fine to give a taster and then charge for added value. However, Apple charge for iMovie and we have been led to expect both a developing ease-of-use and a developing feature set. There has never been any loss of important functionality before in an iMovie upgrade and special measures were necessary to communicate any loss of functionality as part of any new product strategy. Slipping it to us was not going to work.

Still, as stated, Apple have responded, but iMovie '06 is not (plausibly) going to be separately developed as iMovie '08 is its development! So iMovie '06 is a great stop-gap measure by Apple to address the immediate problem --- oh to have other Companies so responsive! However, relying on iMovie '06, a package that is not going to be developed further, as an ongoing solution is just not on.

Like others, I therefore hope and trust that Apple will put the key 'missing' features in (in a nice easy-to-use way!) as soon as can practically be arranged. An announcement that this will be done before very long would also go a long way to defuse the feeling and reassure people that Apple is the top-notch, customer-caring, brilliantly inventive Company that I guess many of us on this forum see it as being!
post #91 of 279
Quote:
Originally Posted by dylanw23 View Post

I don't really have anything new to add, but I thought I'd throw a few thoughts in.

I've made a few short videos with previous versions of iMovie, and I think after playing with it a bit, I'm pretty sure that what I've done would have been impossible in iMovie 08. I still have iMovie HD, it's true, but I'm not too confident that, should any compatibility issues come up after OS 10.5 comes out, Apple will continue to update it to keep it working. Under-the-hood OS updates have broken legacy software before. What do we do if installing Leopard, or one of its updates breaks iMovie HD, and Apple takes it's time fixing it, or decides not to fix it at all? Also, as others have noted, it seems very unlikely that iMovie HD will be updated to accept any of the newer video formats.

The other issue that worries me is the possibility that iMovie 08 represents a more general movement with Apple's consumer-level apps. I use GarageBand a lot. The new version has a bunch of very nice new features, but the only one Steve focused on in his demo was the "Magic Garageband" thing, which I played with for about 3 minutes and which I will probably never use again. I worry now that Apple will decide that GB is an app for podcasters and people who want to shove a few loops around to provide a soundtrack for their iMovie video clips before they upload them to YouTube.

I remember when iMovie first came out, a lot of people thought that in putting out a really solid, easy to use video editor, Apple was "democratizing" video production. Apple is now officially out of that business. It's true that editing a movie is different to, and harder than, shoving a few clips together and posting them to YouTube. Apple has evidently decided that they needed to make a choice between people who wanted to sit and take the time to actually edit a video and people who want the shortest path from their camera to Web 2.0. With iMovie 08, they chose the latter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by elroth View Post

It's funny that so many people seem to know exactly what "consumers" want, what Apple's customers want, what switchers want.

When Apple released iLife 08, there was no mention of letting people download iMovie 06. That came later (though fairly soon), probably because so many people complained. It seems like it wasn't in Apple's plans to continue the functionality of iMovie 06. I'm hoping they realize this was a mistake.

Look at some of the things iMovie 08 is missing from the previous version:

1. There is no way to edit exactly where you want: you cannot stop the movie exactly where you want, or move ahead or back one frame at a time. This should be a feature of any movie editing app, even a simple one.
2. You can change the length of fades, but not individually - only for the movie as a whole. Every fade out and fade in in a movie must be the same length.
3. I don't personally use effects other than fades, but 08 has dropped many many transitions and effects, and made third-party plug-ins useless.
4. Sound - you can't fade sound down at a specific point to get rid of an errant noise, or fade down the movie track and fade up the music, or fade out a song and fade in another one where you want. Only two sound sources can be used at a time - the one that was shot with the video, and one track (music, etc.) you can add. You can raise or lower the volume of the added track, but only all at once - the whole track is raised or lowered, not individual parts.
5. No chapter markers. Jobs said nobody wants to use DVDs anymore, everything will be done on the web - he's wrong about that. Do you want a DVD of your wedding video, or is it okay if it's just stored on the web?
6. iMovie 08 will not open movies made in iMovie 06. This fact alone should have led Apple to come up with a name other than iMovie.

I make instructional videos (DVDs). I've found iMovie 06 (and 05 before that) pretty easy to use, especially the video editing part (the sound editing is harder to learn). It has a couple of interface annoyances, but it does pretty much everything I want or need it to do. And I have fun using it - I like it.

These two posts tell the whole story, IMO-- dylanw23's remarks about the hollowness of the "just use iMovie '06" chorus and elroth's specifics about what was left out.

I think these very eloquent posts speak for themselves, but I do have a few more observations about the impoverished feature set.

Looking at elroth's list, can anyone persuasively argue that including those abilities would make the current iMovie harder to use? Because that's part of the argument being put forth, right? That iMovie needed to be slimmed down because it had gotten "bloated" and was "too hard to use"?

So: really? Getting a frame counter is properly a pro function? Being able to vary the length of transitions is confusing?

Varying the sound level within a clip? So I need FCE? WTF? A line, for god's sake. Drag it up, drag it down. Makes little hills and valleys, just like you'd figure. Was that going to flummox the target demographic?

And as far as being a new app so "all" the features couldn't necessarily be included-- huh? Really, exposing some of the global settings on a clip to clip basis was going to be a big coding challenge?

I think some of the people who don't really care about taking a few moments to polish (even a home) movie and think it's all a bunch of whining better hope Apple doesn't take a similar ax to any of the apps you do care about.

And as far as "just wait, the features will come, they always do", there is no always, in this case. Apple has never sharply reduced the functionality of a key app, before, and it looks to me like the dumbing down was anything but an oversight, so why would I expect it to get better?
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post #92 of 279
I really still don't buy the idea that iMovie 6 was too hard. If that's too hard, then how is the user going to be able to copy the video from the camera? I think that's trickiest part of the problem, Apple can't do anything about that.

It's too slow if you use things that need to be rendered, but I think it was Apple's choice to require rendering something like text. Most transitions were kind of hokey anyway. I always thought that iMovie was the easy, quick & dirty slap-together-my-video software. You didn't even have to use timelines in iMovie 6. I think I made a half hour video in an hour in iMovie 6, but that's not counting the DVD. The slowest part is iDVD 6's horribly slow encoding.
post #93 of 279
Quote:
Originally Posted by sabasjon@hotmail.com View Post

I seem to remember a widely used OS (giving people an eXPerience) that got updated just last year that meant that THOUSANDS couldn't upgrade as their machines couldn't cope with the load it requires on their hardware - with one manufacturer even pulling it as an option on most of their laptops/desktops !!!

It ain't just Steve that has to make decisions to not keep software "tied back" just to be compatible with hardware from years ago !!

Yeah and Apple made quite a few commercials bashing that right? As if they are better than that, like they won't leave their loyal users behind. Ask the G4 owners about that one. Remember PC going in for surgery? At least PC could be operated on.
post #94 of 279
Quote:
Originally Posted by steviet02 View Post

Yeah and Apple made quite a few commercials bashing that right? As if they are better than that, like they won't leave their loyal users behind. Ask the G4 owners about that one. Remember PC going in for surgery? At least PC could be operated on.



Ok.. I really wasn't going to jump in on this, but all these comments are driving me insane!
It's not the end of the world, people!
Worst case scenario, you use the same version of iMovie you've been using for the last year, best case, you've got a new toy to play with! So much complaining over nothing!
"I feel ripped off and as a recent Apple from PC convert, I'm still not totally sold on Apple products. I'm hoping they'll take this software back and [i] can uninstall the entire iLife '08 software." -> That peeved me off the most btw.. Seriously dude, you sound like a spoiled kid who didn't get enough presents for Christmas..

I strongly believe that one of the following two things will happen:

1. iMovie '06 will be brought back, iMovie '08 will become a 'companion product', or an iMovie 'Lite' version. (This is highly unlikely IMO)

2. iMovie '08 will gain all the features of the old iMovie in coming updates, just like every other one of Apple's programs as they are developed. It will be optimized also, just as Motion was, just as FCP was, just as iPhoto was.

Now let's all go drink some green tea, chill out, and enjoy the 3 other programs that came with iLife '08, for $79.
Seventy --- nine --- dollars.

Geez.

JW
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post #95 of 279
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

I really still don't buy the idea that iMovie 6 was too hard. If that's too hard, then how is the user going to be able to copy the video from the camera? I think that's trickiest part of the problem, Apple can't do anything about that.

It's too slow if you use things that need to be rendered, but I think it was Apple's choice to require rendering something like text. Most transitions were kind of hokey anyway. I always thought that iMovie was the easy, quick & dirty slap-together-my-video software. You didn't even have to use timelines in iMovie 6. I think I made a half hour video in an hour in iMovie 6, but that's not counting the DVD. The slowest part is iDVD 6's horribly slow encoding.

Yeah, I don't get that either. You'd think iMovie '06 was some kind of horrible kludge. Sure, some of the transitions and video fx were hokey, but that's not exactly part of the learning curve.

And for my money, the new project window is much harder to parse, visually, then a time line. That clumsy broken line to indicate clips continuing on the next row? I mean, that's just heinous interface design. And those those fat sound markers with those awkward flags to indicate the starting point, that have to get skinnier and skinnier the more you add? Having the entire background of the window change color to indicate the first audio track, then switching to those lines for every track thereafter? Did anyone actually design this, or was it some kind of path of least resistance thing?

A timeline lets you keep tabs on even a very complex project at a glance, and it is no more difficult to use than that window-- it just doesn't force you to stack up a linear series of events like building blocks, completely screwing the metaphor and forcing information into awkward paste ons, or, worse, completely doing away with information.

It's like Apple's way of saying "You'd better keep 'em short and simple, kids, because if you try to do anything more the interface will burst into flame."

Hey, you know what'd be cool? If the next version of Pages does away with numerical font size selection and 2/3 of the fonts and you can only set attributes per page and they drop kerning and paragraph indentation is either on or off there are two line spacings and four colors and if you want graphics you have to dump it into another program. But there's some really neat realtime visual stuff and most people only blog now anyway which it is perfect for, it even has a "post to my blog" button.

And anyone who doesn't like it can either buy Office or keep their old copy, so there's no basis for whining. So called "writers" should have been using Office all along and not trying to scam their way onto Pages, which is for blogging and captioning lolcats posts, or it is now, anyway.
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post #96 of 279
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimzip View Post

Ok.. I really wasn't going to jump in on this, but all these comments are driving me insane!
It's not the end of the world, people!
Worst case scenario, you use the same version of iMovie you've been using for the last year, best case, you've got a new toy to play with! So much complaining over nothing!
"I feel ripped off and as a recent Apple from PC convert, I'm still not totally sold on Apple products. I'm hoping they'll take this software back and [i] can uninstall the entire iLife '08 software." -> That peeved me off the most btw.. Seriously dude, you sound like a spoiled kid who didn't get enough presents for Christmas..

I strongly believe that one of the following two things will happen:

1. iMovie '06 will be brought back, iMovie '08 will become a 'companion product', or an iMovie 'Lite' version. (This is highly unlikely IMO)

2. iMovie '08 will gain all the features of the old iMovie in coming updates, just like every other one of Apple's programs as they are developed. It will be optimized also, just as Motion was, just as FCP was, just as iPhoto was.

Now let's all go drink some green tea, chill out, and enjoy the 3 other programs that came with iLife '08, for $79.
Seventy --- nine --- dollars.

Geez.

JW

Motion didn't replace another program that could already do more. FCP didn't replace another program that could already do more. iPhoto didn't replace a previous iPhoto that could already do more. And none them replaced anything with a completely different design philosophy that clearly favors speed and "no brainer" over precision and care.

Thinking that certain features will get added suggests that Apple left them out "by accident" rather than "by design".
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post #97 of 279
The whole imac revision and ilife 08 was a bust , i just got my 24 inch imac in january and this update did not get me excited to upgrade , remember when apple use to make you spend every lads oller you had just to upgrade in 6 months , i slowly losing my fanboyism , I'm starting to feel like the share holders and the board members at Apple brain washing Stev and he's forgetting about the ''Amazingly great products'' part about apple

i honestly thought I would be seeing a levitating iMac , not actually see the same computer i've been seeing for the last 3 1/2 years with the ugly aluminum skin , but i've been wrong before i haded the imac when they came out with the G5s then it just grew on me , but where is the innovation in this , where's the Blu-ray super drive ? and why don't they put firewire 800 to good use like for the iphone and the ipod and speaking of that why did steve say that shipping for the first time with an imac you get firwire 400 + firwire 800

when my 7 month old imac has both, I'm really disappointed in my favorite company and the iphone battery is another-thing ,
post #98 of 279
Quote:
Originally Posted by ljocampo View Post

I have the FCP studio, but there are times I use iMovie for its sheer simplicity. If I need the timeline I'll use FCP or FCE, but if I just have a few clips to throw together, iMovie's clip mode was all I needed. That said, I feel most users, those who probably don't post or read threads here at AI, were probably using the easy clip mode of iMovie 6 and never ventured beyond the simple video project. It looks to me, that iMovie 8 is the next generation easy clip mode and probably clip mode was iMovie 8's inspiration. I don't know, but if you asks me, I think Apple did just what most of it's customer base wanted and needed. Timelines are not very intuitive for most users.

Wow, straight off the Apple talking points? Which office do you work out of?

Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

You're missing the point. "A lot of people" want the same level of functionality as the previous iteration of the app.

All of a sudden, now that Apple has sharply dumbed down iMovie, I was "supposed" to be using FCE all along? Suddenly my expectations for iMovie are arrogantly out of line with what I can rightfully expect from "consumer" software, whereas a few weeks ago my expectations were......what?

Is that I was being overly pampered by Apple and now that the free ride is over I should be grateful that they were willing to extend the "extra" functionality for free? And now I should STFU because Apple, in its wisdom, has properly moved that functionality $300 up the line, where, apparently, it belonged all along?

AMEN!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by addicted44 View Post

Considering that iMovie '06 is still available as a free download for iLife '08 buyers, it is physically impossible for the new suite to do less. So your argument is completely BS. You have the exact same features as you did before, with the addition of a new method that lets you prepare videos really quickly.

These guys are onto nothing, except their own whiney fat asses. Agreed, if Apple had not made iMovie '06 available my reaction would have been different. But they did make it available.

So my choice is, use the software that has a cool front end (scrubbing and quick selects) or use the one that is functional?

I'm sorry i forgot who posted about wanting to level up to the next app, but you are 100% correct. I want FCE to start adding that 'production' look and feel, but never thought I would not have iMovie for those home movies that look great! We do in store vids for work and my boss was very impressed with my iMovie work, but now iMovie is like TextEdit to Pages. BTW, don't Mac people brag about being the intelligent ones? So then why does Apple have to dumb down the apps?

iMovie 8 is a Windows app, and if the 'Click Here to Connect' generation is coming to Macs, that will be a sad day!?
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post #99 of 279
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neptune5 View Post

The whole imac revision and ilife 08 was a bust , i just got my 24 inch imac in january and this update did not get me excited to upgrade , remember when apple use to make you spend every lads oller you had just to upgrade in 6 months , i slowly losing my fanboyism , I'm starting to feel like the share holders and the board members at Apple brain washing Stev and he's forgetting about the ''Amazingly great products'' part about apple

i honestly thought I would be seeing a levitating iMac , not actually see the same computer i've been seeing for the last 3 1/2 years with the ugly aluminum skin , but i've been wrong before i haded the imac when they came out with the G5s then it just grew on me , but where is the innovation in this , where's the Blu-ray super drive ? and why don't they put firewire 800 to good use like for the iphone and the ipod and speaking of that why did steve say that shipping for the first time with an imac you get firwire 400 + firwire 800

when my 7 month old imac has both, I'm really disappointed in my favorite company and the iphone battery is another-thing ,


if your not satisfied, lower your standards



post #100 of 279
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimzip View Post

I strongly believe that one of the following two things will happen:

1. iMovie '06 will be brought back, iMovie '08 will become a 'companion product', or an iMovie 'Lite' version. (This is highly unlikely IMO)

2. iMovie '08 will gain all the features of the old iMovie in coming updates, just like every other one of Apple's programs as they are developed. It will be optimized also, just as Motion was, just as FCP was, just as iPhoto was.

JW

Thats bs... I've listened to these statements about apple doing this, adding that, 'it will be fixed or updated'... Fact is you know as much as I do about their plan, and thats squat.
post #101 of 279
I have to admit that trying iMovie 8, it's not too bad as far as organizing clips into a narrative and getting the job done quickly. Many basic consumers will enjoy this software. This is not, however, creative movie editing. It is not a creative, educational tool.

As an administrator and tech buyer for a large school system with 1,100 Macs and 4,000 PCs I believe this "downgrade" will make it hard to justify buying more Macs and probably lead to more Windows machines in schools replacing Macs. Apple's reputation for creativity is lost if the iLife suite bundled on education Macs cannot compete with Windows offerings and their generally lower prices. The basic software that comes with our new digicams actually has more editing features than the new iMovie. Editing is where we teach most of our film studies creativity now. The jobs and the action are in the post-shoot phase of production. iMovie before version 7 was a terrific introduction to these methods. Stripping these features compromises years worth of structured, proven lesson plans.

So our media programs cannot use what is bundled with the Mac. Apple's response from its education sale department is that 13 year-olds should be using Final Cut and that schools should be spending extra money for that powerful a program. I do not agree and we have had some testy words. Final Cut is not usable at home for most students. It does more than necessary. It adds huge cost per work station. Windows software has none of those disadvantages. Apple's education sales people have become very, very defensive and are not returning calls. They are clearly embarrassed. There are huge costs and lost sale involved.

The iMovie 6 HD "free" release does nothing to solve this problem. Apple is only signaling that the program has no long term support or upgrade potential. It will not be updated to meet new codecs and camera protocols as the industry evolves. Schools cannot buy hardware for software with no future.

Taking features out of iMovie was a very stupid move by Apple. I would prefer buying Macs for our labs, but Apple makes it so difficult, when it does not have to be. They have a very short time frame in which to correct a serious mistake.
post #102 of 279
So now that iMovie has become useless for anything other than short YouTube clips, what now is the purpose of iDVD? iDVD's themes, chapter marker recognition, menus, and navigation, are now pointless unless you shell out for FCE. Sure you can download iMovie 6, but will that software be maintained and updated as the hardware and OS move forward? Will it always be available as a free download? Given Apple's typical software upgrade paths, it will be AT LEAST two major revisions before the new iMovie was come anywhere near the functionality of the current versions. And many features will NEVER come back if they stick with the new interface. Without precision head placement, most of the markers, transitions, and effects are impossible to use effectively anyway.

Apple might as well remove iDVD from all new Macs and from the iLife package. It is now just as useless and pointless and iMovie.

Bottom line, iMovie 8 is now in league with the crappy Windows options we've all been laughing at for the past 4 years. Congratulations Apple, you've finally caught Microsoft...too bad you got there by going in reverse.

post #103 of 279
Okay, everyone else is throwing their two cents in so I'll do the same...

-I was displeased with iMovie 08 being unable to use my Slick effects. Yes, the functionality is reduced but it is a far simpler app to use. It really is less bloated and, yes, for most people, iMovie HD is too complicated. I teach a course on using technology in education and most teachers do find iMovie HD a bit daunting and complicated. Relax, the new iMovie will be fine. Apple will build in plugins, new features, etc.

-iMovie HD didn't suddenly stop working. Its still there and its still great! What "support" is it that you think Apple is going to take away? IMovie HD edits video. What "updates" do you need? It's like being worried that your screwdriver isn't going to be updated. It's a tool and it still works great.

-The iLife suite is 79 bucks. Even assuming you *despise* the new iMovie, the value is still excellent. Not that anyone should hate the new iMovie because, worst case scenario, you now have a new, simple video editing app *and* iMovie HD!

-And why, on Earth, would anyone complain about software not being usable with certain computers? The specs are written *on the box.*

A lot of you really are just completely unreasonable Keep using iLife 06! It's still a great, great suite! Apple was very, very clear about the specs, the price, and the features of iLife 08. Apple.com is jam-packed with information and tutorials. No reasonable person can possibly claim they didn't know what they were getting with iLife 08.

And, of course, the most important fact is that, like most software, iLife 08 is completely, utterly *optional.*

I've never understood why someone would run out and buy a piece of software they haven't demoed, haven't read reviews for, and then have the audacity to complain about it. It just makes no sense at all. How about finding out what the app does and how it *behaves* before you buy it.

These complaints really do sound like the whining of petulant children for the most part.
post #104 of 279
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattjumbo View Post

-iMovie HD didn't suddenly stop working. Its still there and its still great! What "support" is it that you think Apple is going to take away? IMovie HD edits video. What "updates" do you need? It's like being worried that your screwdriver isn't going to be updated. It's a tool and it still works great.

One day after installing the OS X 10.5.1 update:

"The application 'iMovie HD' unexpectedly quit . . ."
post #105 of 279
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattjumbo View Post

What "support" is it that you think Apple is going to take away? IMovie HD edits video. What "updates" do you need? It's like being worried that your screwdriver isn't going to be updated. It's a tool and it still works great.

Whenever there's a new operating system (Leopard coming!), many apps need an update. Some Panther apps didn't work at all in Tiger, some worked with only partial functionality. iMovie 06 may need an update to work fully in Leopard. Maybe it'll work great from the start, but sometime in the future if iMovie 06 is not updated, it could be broken. (Of course, if we "whiners" don't like it, we could always keep running Tiger).
post #106 of 279
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neptune5 View Post

The whole imac revision and ilife 08 was a bust , i just got my 24 inch imac in january and this update did not get me excited to upgrade , remember when apple use to make you spend every lads oller you had just to upgrade in 6 months , i slowly losing my fanboyism , I'm starting to feel like the share holders and the board members at Apple brain washing Stev and he's forgetting about the ''Amazingly great products'' part about apple

Every six months? That's wacky, I just don't get it. Even in my worst in my PC years, I don't think I've upgraded or replaced a given computer more than once a year. When I had an Alpha workstation, I had the same machine as my primary system for five years, though did minor upgrades on memory and drives.
post #107 of 279
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattjumbo View Post

Okay, everyone else is throwing their two cents in so I'll do the same...

-I was displeased with iMovie 08 being unable to use my Slick effects. Yes, the functionality is reduced but it is a far simpler app to use. It really is less bloated and, yes, for most people, iMovie HD is too complicated. I teach a course on using technology in education and most teachers do find iMovie HD a bit daunting and complicated. Relax, the new iMovie will be fine. Apple will build in plugins, new features, etc.

-iMovie HD didn't suddenly stop working. Its still there and its still great! What "support" is it that you think Apple is going to take away? IMovie HD edits video. What "updates" do you need? It's like being worried that your screwdriver isn't going to be updated. It's a tool and it still works great.

-The iLife suite is 79 bucks. Even assuming you *despise* the new iMovie, the value is still excellent. Not that anyone should hate the new iMovie because, worst case scenario, you now have a new, simple video editing app *and* iMovie HD!

-And why, on Earth, would anyone complain about software not being usable with certain computers? The specs are written *on the box.*

A lot of you really are just completely unreasonable Keep using iLife 06! It's still a great, great suite! Apple was very, very clear about the specs, the price, and the features of iLife 08. Apple.com is jam-packed with information and tutorials. No reasonable person can possibly claim they didn't know what they were getting with iLife 08.

And, of course, the most important fact is that, like most software, iLife 08 is completely, utterly *optional.*

I've never understood why someone would run out and buy a piece of software they haven't demoed, haven't read reviews for, and then have the audacity to complain about it. It just makes no sense at all. How about finding out what the app does and how it *behaves* before you buy it.

These complaints really do sound like the whining of petulant children for the most part.

Nice. You just reiterate every talking point that's already been proffered for why it's really wrong for Apple's customers to want anything other than what it gives them, without bothering to address any of the many caveats that have been laid out, and cap it off by dismissing anyone that disagrees with you as a whiny child.

Which would make you what, exactly? I leave that for you to ponder, but I wonder if you even bothered to read the post from the guy that runs that big educational video lab.

If iMovie doesn't work for them, and they are loath to, variously, pin their hopes on an orphaned piece of older software that will never be updated again and will probably steadily lose compatibility with OS X, cross their fingers and hope Apple adds back in some functionality at some point, or spend a great deal of money on software upgrades, what shall we tell them?

What shall we tell all the educational labs that have been using iMovie as a great interactive teaching tool?

"Dear Apple Customer: Too bad. We're all about the switchers now, who don't now any better and are just grateful for an app that doesn't crash. You are whiny babies, fuck off.

Love, Apple"
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post #108 of 279
Addabox,

I think your concerns about the new iMovie are valid. However I see this as really a new app and not so much an upgrade to an existing product. I think Apple recognize this as well since they allow users to download the old version of iMovie to use instead if they prefer. As such, I think that Apple will add features in as time goes on. Certainly there's no guarantee but it would make a lot of sense. Will it ever have all the features that the old iMovie had? Who knows. But if they were able to add in 80% of the old features and combine that with the new and simpler way of working with video I think it could be a terrific result. Let's hope that's where this is heading. I believe Apple know that they need to improve iMovie given the talk on numerous discussion boards.
post #109 of 279
Ok lets see this ..... I go buy 5 brand new Intel Macs, One does not work at all, so I get a free g4 machine and get to keep all 5 Intel Macs even though 1 of them don't work and will not be repaired, but Apple gets to keep the price of all 5 Macs.

Would you say this is fair? Is it a good value?

I do not think so, why should I pay for iLife 08 full price but only receive 4 working applications? Like the above example, I get a copy of iMovie 06, but I already have a previous version, so it has zero value to me also.

Us PPC G4 users are getting screwed on iLife, specially if you have the previous version.
post #110 of 279
They should have integrated the functionality of iMovie '08 into iPhoto rather than replacing the old iMovie. The functionality has a lot of overlap anyway, and you can use iPhoto for video clips already.
post #111 of 279
Oh my God! Quit complaining people!

Like Apple owes you anything. Just last week the new iLife did not exist. You were happy. Now Apple releases an *early initial release* of a suite with a *2 year product cycle* things are not perfect, and you flip.

Go get a life. Make something yourself. Apple makes wonderful things all the time. They improve them constantly in response to user input. Their software improvement regime is exceptionally good -- I would say legendary. Their OS bug fixing is exemplary.

Who are you talking about? Have you lost your respect for Apple? Then, whom do you respect? Who gives you stuff this good for $79, with the strong expectation of many download bug fixes and minor upgrades along the way?

There is no friendlier company than Apple. Get off your high horses and shut the hell up.

Even in terms of legacy OS support, Apple is very good. I have 6 and 7 year old machines that still sync up to Apple for security bug fixes. No hassle. Apple has been good to me. iLife 08 is just part of it, NO bad signs.

The feature loss is due to the new platform and not enough time to code. It will be fixed. Relax people, my god. No one lusts after vintage Apple software; their sequels ALWAYS end up being better. It may take a few revisions but ALWAYS Apple comes through. Jesus Christ.
post #112 of 279
Quote:
Originally Posted by steviet02 View Post

Thats bs... I've listened to these statements about apple doing this, adding that, 'it will be fixed or updated'... Fact is you know as much as I do about their plan, and thats squat.

Seriously?

Well I've been using Apple's stuff for 20 years now, and in the experiences I've had Apple's done just what I said above. I wouldn't just spew random crud onto these message boards without sufficient reason. That's why I gave some examples, to back up the theory.

I strongly believe a lot of the irks people have with iMovie will be resolved. It's the process every one of Apple's iLife apps goes through. Sure Apple may take a while, but they listen, they improve, and they do, despite what some people may think, go the extra mile in most cases. Especially with their iLife suite. This is their flagship product line, their lure for new Apple users and old ones, and I think there's huge necessity to keep it functional, simple and cutting edge.

There's no need to complain really, but if you feel there's something very wrong, a well structured note of feedback to Apple won't go by unnoticed. That's why the forms are there.

Jimzip
"There's no time like the present, and the only present you'll never get, is time." - Me
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post #113 of 279
It should also be noted that it seems .MOV video shot on Kodak digital cameras is not supported with iMovie 08 either. I have the Kodak V610 and iMovie 08 will not recognize any of my .MOV files (which currently play in my QuickTime and were easily imported into my iPhoto). Other Kodak users who posted to Apple's support site have also mentioned similar problems. While an update is probably forthcoming, I'm a little disheartened by this very unApple-like sloppy release. Not-to-mention the keynote was met with a rather "ho-hum" reaction from the crowd in attendance. It just seems like resources over the last year were poured into the iPhone and then haphazardly redirected to Mac products. I hope this is not a trend of the future.
post #114 of 279
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Nice. You just reiterate every talking point that's already been proffered for why it's really wrong for Apple's customers to want anything other than what it gives them, without bothering to address any of the many caveats that have been laid out, and cap it off by dismissing anyone that disagrees with you as a whiny child.

Which would make you what, exactly? I leave that for you to ponder, but I wonder if you even bothered to read the post from the guy that runs that big educational video lab.

If iMovie doesn't work for them, and they are loath to, variously, pin their hopes on an orphaned piece of older software that will never be updated again and will probably steadily lose compatibility with OS X, cross their fingers and hope Apple adds back in some functionality at some point, or spend a great deal of money on software upgrades, what shall we tell them?

What shall we tell all the educational labs that have been using iMovie as a great interactive teaching tool?

"Dear Apple Customer: Too bad. We're all about the switchers now, who don't now any better and are just grateful for an app that doesn't crash. You are whiny babies, fuck off.

Love, Apple"

What shall we tell the educational labs that have been using iMovie as a teaching tool? How about this: "Hey educational labs, keep using iMovie as a great interactive teaching tool!"

At my university we finally bought an intel iMac lab last year. Up until then we had been using G3 iMacs on 10.3, and whatever version of iMovie ran best on that processor. And they worked great. I'm sorry if you were offended but I stand by my comment.

As I mentioned, I was peeved for about a day about the huge number of Slick plugins I couldn't use and then the Slick support team sent me a very intelligent e-mail that said, basically "We're working on it, iMovie HD still works great." Being the "Mac guy" at the two schools I work for, people constantly come up to me and either complain that Apple just released a new version of this, that, or the other, a month, a week, six weeks after they just bought a Mac.

And I'm always baffled by it.

My response is, "Were you happy with your computer before product X came out?" Yes. "Does your computer still do all the things it did when you bought it?" Yes. "Does your computer still work fine?" Yes. "Well then, what do you have to be unhappy about?"

The principal is the same here. *Except* that there is even *less* validity to the complaints since, again, try to follow me here, iLife 08 is completely, utterly, totally optional! You can actually not buy it *at all* and your Mac will still work! When someone complains about an upgrade that they would have had for free if they had waited a few more weeks to buy their Mac, that can be annoying. Still not a big deal and certainly not "unfair" in any way, but annoying. With iLife, even that slim argument doesn't hold water.

If your point is that the new iMovie sucks and you think it's a bad product, fine. I don't like everything Apple puts out. In fact, up until this newest version, I thought Pages was an out and out dog. Not flexible enough to be a good word processor and too simplistic to be a good layout tool. Here, again, I employed this amazing technique: I didn't *buy it.*

And, for the record, the new iMovie is *not* a crappy product at all. It is easier to use than iMovie HD which, as I recall, was the whole point of it. It is not iMovie HD, nor did anyone at Apple claim that it was.

If I am mischaracterizing your (or anyone's) point-of-view, I apologize, but the clear tone of a lot of these posts is: "Apple done me wrong! Mean, mean Apple broke teh iMovies!" No, they didn't. On either count.

Let's close with the facts:

-iLife 08 is a completely optional piece of software
-Apple made a glut of information about it freely available hours after it was launched
-iLife 08 is suite of five applications for 79 bucks all of which are considered "best in class."
-iMovie HD is not "orphaned" it works just fine and probably will for the foreseeable future. It's an app, not an OS. It doesn't live or die by updates. The vast majority of software made for 10.2, released in the summer of 2002, still works on 10.4 five years later. There is no reason to think iMovie HD won't as well.

Given those facts I did, and still do, think that pretending that Apple has done something "unfair" to you or anyone else is whiny and childish. Now if you just think the new iMovie sucks, so be it.

But unless it has become somehow wrong for a company to release a new suite of apps that is completely optional (and a hell of a value to boot), then Apple hasn't wronged anyone, treated anyone unfairly, or screwed anyone at all.

If you buy iLife 08 you have, at worst, lost *nothing* (not even your older version of iMovie) and gained significant new functionality in most of the suite for 79 bucks.

And then there is the option of just not buying and again, losing nothing *at all.*
post #115 of 279
Quote:
Originally Posted by EagerDragon View Post

Ok lets see this ..... I go buy 5 brand new Intel Macs, One does not work at all, so I get a free g4 machine and get to keep all 5 Intel Macs even though 1 of them don't work and will not be repaired, but Apple gets to keep the price of all 5 Macs.

Would you say this is fair? Is it a good value?

For real? Because if this is true, if you did buy 5 iMacs, and one didn't work, and you told Apple I'm certain they would replace it with another iMac. Absolutely certain. The warranty covers it, I don't know why you got a G4 as a replacement.. that makes no sense.
As long as you bought it from Apple or an Apple reseller there's no question about replacing faulty or defective hardware at no charge within the warranty period.

Keep in mind also that Apple makes iLife to help drive mac sales. Any mac made in the last few years should run iLife '08. If your mac is older than that, well hopefully it's made you back the money you spent on it by now and enough to buy a new one?

Jimzip
"There's no time like the present, and the only present you'll never get, is time." - Me
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post #116 of 279
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattjumbo View Post

-iLife 08 is suite of five applications for 79 bucks all of which are considered "best in class."

You should put stupid shit like this at the beginning of your post, so I wouldn't have to waste my time getting to it.

post #117 of 279
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattjumbo View Post

What shall we tell the educational labs that have been using iMovie as a teaching tool? How about this: "Hey educational labs, keep using iMovie as a great interactive teaching tool!"

At my university we finally bought an intel iMac lab last year. Up until then we had been using G3 iMacs on 10.3, and whatever version of iMovie ran best on that processor. And they worked great. I'm sorry if you were offended but I stand by my comment.

As I mentioned, I was peeved for about a day about the huge number of Slick plugins I couldn't use and then the Slick support team sent me a very intelligent e-mail that said, basically "We're working on it, iMovie HD still works great." Being the "Mac guy" at the two schools I work for, people constantly come up to me and either complain that Apple just released a new version of this, that, or the other, a month, a week, six weeks after they just bought a Mac.

And I'm always baffled by it.

My response is, "Were you happy with your computer before product X came out?" Yes. "Does your computer still do all the things it did when you bought it?" Yes. "Does your computer still work fine?" Yes. "Well then, what do you have to be unhappy about?"

The principal is the same here. *Except* that there is even *less* validity to the complaints since, again, try to follow me here, iLife 08 is completely, utterly, totally optional! You can actually not buy it *at all* and your Mac will still work! When someone complains about an upgrade that they would have had for free if they had waited a few more weeks to buy their Mac, that can be annoying. Still not a big deal and certainly not "unfair" in any way, but annoying. With iLife, even that slim argument doesn't hold water.

If your point is that the new iMovie sucks and you think it's a bad product, fine. I don't like everything Apple puts out. In fact, up until this newest version, I thought Pages was an out and out dog. Not flexible enough to be a good word processor and too simplistic to be a good layout tool. Here, again, I employed this amazing technique: I didn't *buy it.*

And, for the record, the new iMovie is *not* a crappy product at all. It is easier to use than iMovie HD which, as I recall, was the whole point of it. It is not iMovie HD, nor did anyone at Apple claim that it was.

If I am mischaracterizing your (or anyone's) point-of-view, I apologize, but the clear tone of a lot of these posts is: "Apple done me wrong! Mean, mean Apple broke teh iMovies!" No, they didn't. On either count.

Let's close with the facts:

-iLife 08 is a completely optional piece of software
-Apple made a glut of information about it freely available hours after it was launched
-iLife 08 is suite of five applications for 79 bucks all of which are considered "best in class."
-iMovie HD is not "orphaned" it works just fine and probably will for the foreseeable future. It's an app, not an OS. It doesn't live or die by updates. The vast majority of software made for 10.2, released in the summer of 2002, still works on 10.4 five years later. There is no reason to think iMovie HD won't as well.

Given those facts I did, and still do, think that pretending that Apple has done something "unfair" to you or anyone else is whiny and childish. Now if you just think the new iMovie sucks, so be it.

But unless it has become somehow wrong for a company to release a new suite of apps that is completely optional (and a hell of a value to boot), then Apple hasn't wronged anyone, treated anyone unfairly, or screwed anyone at all.

If you buy iLife 08 you have, at worst, lost *nothing* (not even your older version of iMovie) and gained significant new functionality in most of the suite for 79 bucks.

And then there is the option of just not buying and again, losing nothing *at all.*

Look, I get it. You don't understand why anyone would ever have misgivings about the direction a platform is taking, as evidenced by the quality of the apps, because you're one of those horrible little Apple sycophants who thinks the appropriate relationship of customer to vendor is one of worshipful gratitude.

I've been using Macs for over 20 years, it is my platform of choice, I care about the direction Apple takes. Most of what they do I like a lot, some of it is so-so, and very occasionally they do something really inexplicable, that causes me concern for the trends within the company.

So when that happens, I will fucking well bellyache about it on a fucking mac discussion board, and I don't want to listen some patronizing asshole start holding forth about how everything is hunky dory in candy fucking colored Apple land and everybody who thinks otherwise just needs to just STFU already so you can get back to your mindless cheerleading.

OK?
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post #118 of 279
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Look, I get it. You don't understand why anyone would ever have misgivings about the direction a platform is taking, as evidenced by the quality of the apps, because you're one of those horrible little Apple sycophants who thinks the appropriate relationship of customer to vendor is one of worshipful gratitude.

I've been using Macs for over 20 years, it is my platform of choice, I care about the direction Apple takes. Most of what they do I like a lot, some of it is so-so, and very occasionally they do something really inexplicable, that causes me concern for the trends within the company.

So when that happens, I will fucking well bellyache about it on a fucking mac discussion board, and I don't want to listen some patronizing asshole start holding forth about how everything is hunky dory in candy fucking colored Apple land and everybody who thinks otherwise just needs to just STFU already so you can get back to your mindless cheerleading.

OK?

Beautiful!!!!!

If you don't care, FINE - don't care. But, if you do care, express it loudly and make a difference.

Agree totally
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post #119 of 279
I thought I had registered on here before but oh well... don't ignore me because this is my first post.

I am in the same boat as many of you, upset with the new iMovie.

My quick comments:

1. You can edit each transition length seperately... it just sucks. Go to the Project properties, select "Applies when added to project", slide the slider to the length you want your next transition to be, go back to the movie, add the transition, and repeat as needed.

2. Do what I did and write a three page letter you planned to send in the old fashioned mail until you saw there was a "iMovie feedback" menu provided and paste your griefs there. I took several hours working in a project to test the program. I then spent several more to write my issues out, was very VERY clear on what bothered me, where it lacked, where improvments should be made, and where iMovie HD just clearly blows 7.0 out of the water. Maybe they will consider the feedback - maybe not. Who knows. I don't feel any better about my money spent on iLife, but at least iWork has been awesome so far. Not a complete let down.\
post #120 of 279
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimzip View Post

For real? Because if this is true, if you did buy 5 iMacs, and one didn't work, and you told Apple I'm certain they would replace it with another iMac. Absolutely certain. The warranty covers it, I don't know why you got a G4 as a replacement.. that makes no sense.
As long as you bought it from Apple or an Apple reseller there's no question about replacing faulty or defective hardware at no charge within the warranty period.

Keep in mind also that Apple makes iLife to help drive mac sales. Any mac made in the last few years should run iLife '08. If your mac is older than that, well hopefully it's made you back the money you spent on it by now and enough to buy a new one?

Jimzip

You missed the point I was making. If it is not ok to buy 5 computers and get 4, then why is it ok to buy a suite of 5 applications and only get 4?
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