Must have improvements

As much fun as the iPhone clearly is, it has shortcomings as a replacement for a Nokia mobile device never mind a fully fledged business communications device. Frankly, I'm less hopeful that Apple will address these shortcomings directly, and becoming more hopeful that 3rd party application development support will turn the iPhone into a more "perfect" device if/when Apple offers an SDK.

There has been some insightful analysis recently that Apple will do this only after Leopard is released in October. The argument goes that this will give the iPhone development team the opportunity to stabilize the code base for a published API, and synch it with Leopard functionality. If an SDK is not released by year's end, or Apple fails to deliver some of the basic functionality that I expected upon launch (text to multiple recipients, copy & paste etc.), I'll be disapointed enough to look at my options for using a different device for everyday mobile phone use.

I think Apple is well on it's way to answering most of the 1st generation concerns with a few software updates. The second Generation iPhone (probably released in 2008) will again be a show stopper. This product was just a launch pad. Everybody new Apple wasn't going to be able to address everything with the first one. (At least I did) What they did do was give us a look, and feel of what was yet to come. I think the iPhone is, and will, continue to be a dazzler.

I don't get all this complaining.

The device does everything it was advertised to do.

Perhaps more research should have been done by these people who are going to "need to look for other alternatives."

Just my two cents.

Well, I suppose if had been disclosed at launch, or prior to it, that Apple would fail to deliver such basic functionality that has been available on every mobile phone I have owned, and that is available on any/all other phones on the AT&T network, yes any of them.. (such as as the ability to text multiple recipients at once, or copy/forward elements of a text or mail message to others, or even have an Alarm that would go off when set .. yes...even if you received a text message when idle in the interim) then I'd have been more judicious with my $599. So, greater fool me for thinking Apple would deliver on that. What was I thinking? Your perogative to spend your 2 cents.. mine to go find a phone that meets all basic needs and then some.

I'm beginning to think Apple is not going to issue an update anytime soon. It's sad that the iPhone has been out nearly 2 months and we have yet to see voice dialing or even the ability to change ring tones.

At the very least Apple should offer the ring tone used in its iPhone commercials.

I hope you mean *add* ring tones... I was able to change the ring tone on an iPhone after about a minute of playing with it in an Apple store...

While I agree that giving feedback to Apple early and often is a good thing... didn't you go try it before you bought it? I wouldn't buy a $599 phone sight-unseen...

I think that's the point tomkarl is trying to make - there's a certain level of buyer awareness that has to be taken responsibility for. If it doesn't meet your expectations, and assuming you didn't buy one before even trying one (which I think would be a silly, and huge, leap of faith), then... well... *shrug* You got exactly what you paid for, and what was advertised.

But yeah, definitely give Apple feedback directly. They need to know where they need to improve details.

In addition to this everyone seems to forget that the version IS NOT a business phone. The target market is different. If it was a business phone I would think that the AT&T Business Unit would be selling it. They are not. It has never been advertised as a business phone. I agree with Kickaha that very little investigation before purchase would have found out if it fit your needs or not. For me none of the above 'problems' is a problem.

1) texting - don't use it. Didn't get a 'smart' phone until decent e-mail came along.
2) ring tones - never have added one to any phone I have.
3) contact access for long list - search might be nice but I find contact faster now with the "ABCD..." side bar than I ever did with searching on other phones. (1500+ contacts)
4) I forward e-mail all the time, with comment or with parts deleted. Copy/Paste will be nice when it comes but not a big missing element for me
5) alarm when text message waiting - clearly a bug which will be fixed.

I've submitted 4 specific bugs to bugreporter.apple.com and have received good feedback from apple that they are being looked at by engineering. They were duplicates but that's to be expected.

The current iPhone has a different target market than current 'Business' phones. For me the missing features from other phones (friendly UI, reasonable speed, iTunes integration, etc.) far outweigh the other issues being talked about here so for me it was a much better 'business' phone, but then I was in a different market area. For other people, not so - therefore there is choice

Cheers,

Yes, sorry. I meant add ring tones.

I'm sorry. I'm calling "bullshit" on this. I'm not talking about a business phone or for the ability of Apple to deliver solutions that would be looked upon more kindly by Corporate IT and Purchasing Departments. Yes, Apple marketed this phone at retail, and made no bones about it. For 45 minutes in the midtown Manhattan Apple store I played with Safari, the iPod, looked at call functionality etc., and played with the virtual keyboard At no point did I or ANY of the 10 or so buyers of the iPhone that I know purchased this iPhone within the first week of release realize that the basic functionality that is avaialble on EVERY other phone or retail mobile device offered by AT&T (such as as the ability to text multiple recipients at once, or copy/forward elements of a text or mail message to others, or even have an Alarm that would ALWAYS go off when set). Nor did any of us attempt simulating a call in a busy street to realize that the ringer would almost never be loud enough to hear the phone ring.

I would defy anybody to name a single phone supported by LG, Nokia, Motorola, HTC, Smasung that restricts a user's ability to text just one person at a time.

You are in a distinct minority then and probably older than 30. I read recently that 80% of users under the age of 30 text more frequently than they call and I'd asssume that all of these would text multiple parties at once.

In Europe, where SMS was adopted earlier, texting is far more common again. I recently returned from Dublin and London where some mates played with the iPhone. The coolness factor is not doubted, the browsing capability abslutely unique and superb, but nobody I spoke with would buy the phone until they could text multiple parties at once.

Quite simply, this is the reason I believe Apple will actually have to deliver some much needed basic functionality... and before launch of the iPhone in Europe.

You know what they say about people who assume.

Apple has never been known for 'following the crowd' and doing whatever everyone else is doing. That said, I have no doubt that the text/alarm issue is a bug. Have you filed it? As to the other items, I also have no doubt they will be addressed by Apple over time I just don't see these as so imminently critical as is being presented. While you are correct about my age, and while you may be correct about being in a minority I'm not so sure how minor it is (meaning that the detailed features to texting are critical). My daughter and her friends at college almost never use texting, they use e-mail because they have more to say than will fit in 160 characters. Texting is a toy to them. The iPhone certainly has texting, and with a very nice interface. Its missing a few text features and a bug.

*shrug* I call bullshit on you, you call bullshit on me. Seems fair.

From my perspective, SMS and MMS, despite their current popularity, are on their way out, to be replaced by IM and email. (Previous discussion here: http://forums.appleinsider.com/showp...3&postcount=21) They're not technologies I expect Apple is going to put a lot of effort into.

That being said, multiple recipients seems like a simple thing to add. Send them feedback.

SMS is not going away any time soon. It's growing. Apple might do well to support their admitted retail focus with functionality that the broader market needs.

One industry report (by Portio Research) in July of this year stated that by 2012 global SMS revenues will reach US$67 billion driven by 3.7 trillion messages. Apple might want to think again. I email, I also IM and I text. Texting does not require my recipient to be online, or to have a phone that receives email.

http://www.portioresearch.com/press6.html

The vast majority of new phones purchased worldwide contain just voice and SMS. In fact, Potio Research made the claim that "every five minutes now and over the next six years 2,267 people will purchase their first mobile phone that will likely only include standard voice and SMS service".

I'll take a wild stab here and state that every single one of these devices will permit the users to text to multiple recipients.

This isn't by accident mobile phone companies want texting to grow because they can charge for it. They don't want mobile phone manufacturers to include email or IM because their no profit in it for them.

Apple clearly does support texting because texting is on the phone. And they did not include iChat which they easily could have.

iChat is far more robust and rich than texting. If I had a choice I would much rather Apple bring iChat to iPhone than focus on simple texting.

For my money, that's IM and email. I can do much *MUCH* more with those than with SMS and MMS... that I have to pay heavily for.

You do realize that a 160char SMS msg has about 1/50 of the data sent by one second of voice, right? So why the charge? It's just data, after all.

Give me an unlimited data plan, IM, and email, and I really could not care less about messaging. It's limited, expensive, and last decade's interesting technology.

Can I IM to SMS phones? Yup. I know several people who have IM accounts feeding their SMS phones, and vice-versa. No problems there.

Can I email to MMS phones? Yup. Again, I know many people who have this set up. I simply email to <their number>@<their carrier>. Done. Some of them can route to an outgoing gateway, some can't. Those who can't, well, I can wait until they get home.

So if IM > SMS, and email > MMS, why bother with the expensive, outdated, limited technology, other than as a stopgap to get people on the train that actually matters?

Oh right... because the phone companies have convinced people that they *need* it so badly they're willing to bend over for it. No thanks.


Texting is a closed ecosystem. Closed ecosystems die when faced with an open ecosystem that does more. This is just how it goes. They will die. Maybe sooner, maybe later, but SMS and MMS will go the way of CompuServe eventually, and be replaced by IM and email. I give it 4-5 years before the majority of phones are IM/email enabled by default.

Why should Apple 'think again' when they're not going to see a penny of that revenue? The only companies who care about texting are the carriers, because they're making money hand over fist for... nothing. The carriers are on their way to just being ISPs once people realize the racket... and frankly, that's all they should be. Phones with greatly improved functionality will, I would hope, wake people up a bit, to how their wallets are getting picked.


Yes, and they'll have a much more limited functionality. Most carriers provide for IM/SMS and email/MMS gateways for those who need them in the transition.

I know you have a very different take on this, and that's fine, but phone messaging is a dying technology, in that it has been overtaken and surpassed by IM and email. There will likely be a market for SMS only phones for a few years, but really... even the dumbest cell phone hardware these days should be capable of running a simple Jabber client. It's not rocket science. Demand more from your carriers than a closed, limited, expensive infrastructure.


Sadonecrobestiality. We heard you the first time. Has Apple?

To be clear, I don't think anyone here is arguing against multiple recipients being added. I'm certainly not. What I'm saying is that the long-term big-picture goal is nothing short of breaking the carrier stranglehold, just like iTunes Store kicked the major labels in the crotch. Eliminating SMS, MMS, and other expensive, limited technologies, and replacing them with open protocols such as Jabber and IMAP, is just common sense from the consumer's perspective. Everyone will get a lot farther along. Demand more.

Calmy, and rationally I offer...

I think it was the attitude (perceived rightfully or not) of "False advertising! I got *taken*! I couldn't have *known*!" that rubbed some of us the wrong way. If you're insisting being the earliest adopter, you're going to get arrows in the back. That's just how this industry goes. Express shock, dismay, even irritation over missing features that you expected to be there... but realize that it was your expectation that was unmet, not advertising. Giving any new product some time to get the kinks worked out, or waiting to hear other people's gripes, isn't a bad plan if you're concerned about making sure that it meets your needs 100% from the time you open the box.

Hell yes, let Apple know you think these items are missing. I was only expressing my opinion that SMS/MMS-based messaging in general is a dead end, Apple sees this, and is not going to make messaging a first-class experience when they have much bigger fish to fry that depend on the replacement of messaging with better systems. That's all. Multiple recipients seems like a no brainer though, and the lack of select/copy/cut/paste is, I believe, waiting on decisions regarding the basic UI gestures. I have a hunch I know where it's going, but we'll see. It needs to get here sooner rather than later though.

Never forget that Apple's philosophy is to skate where the puck will *be*, not where the puck *is*.

I don't think anyone, including myself, is responding negatively to the suggestions. Adding those functionalities would be fine. In my case, what I'm responding negatively to is the constant tone in these discussions that Apple 'needs' to do this or that. That it was a huge mistake that the didn't do this or that, etc.... That's why I and others are simply saying that if YOU feel that strongly make sure to add it to the suggestion list at either the iphone feedback or bugreporter. I agree with Kickaha that I'd rather them work on other things than most of these (the text/alarm bug being the exception) but Apple doesn't NEED to do either for the market they're initially trying to target.

BTW I mostly send spreadsheets over e-mail for NON-Business purposed. Home budgets, vacation planning, home improvements. I think that advertising spreadsheet viewing addresses a far larger market than just the Business market.

BTW I'm amazed that I haven't seen comments on what I think it the most significant problem with the iPhone (IMO) which is the inability of the iPhone to receive calls when actively using the EDGE network (and yes I know you can't use EDGE when making a call). I found this out as I was accessing a web site which was quite complex and took a long time of constant activity to download. At the end of the download I had a new voicemail!!!

I've called AT&T and Apple and they've both confirmed that this is the case. So beware that if, for example you're skimming all over the place with Maps, or downloading a large site that has no breaks in the network access that you will not receive phone calls. I have filed a bug report with Apple suggesting that their network access take a break every few second to allow an incoming call to register. We'll see what happens. This is the greatest problem for my use of the iPhone.

An example for me. I like taking pictures. But I never really used the camera on my previous phones. Partially because they took crappy pictures and partially because Sprint charged to email the picture from the phone.

Now with the iPhone I have a much better camera and I can freely download the pictures into iPhoto. So I've been taking lots of pictures. Over 500 since I've owned the phone.

When I bought the phone I wasn't really thinking much about the camera and did not think about the flash. Now that I use the camera often I find myself in low light situations where a flash would be great.

But I don't now feel compelled to say that I was tricked or duped because Apple did not include a feature that most other phones offer. I knew it had no flash when I bought it. I suppose they have a reason for not including a flash but now I wish they had.

Once again, here are my reasons for why SMS is superior to email and IM:

• I can send a text to any phone number. I don't need to know my friend's email addresses.
• Checking mail is not popular on phones yet. As of today, people wouldn't get my email until they got home.
• Even if checking email on phones becomes popular... people get loads of email. My message would get mixed up in the spam. SMS doesn't get spam precisely because of the charges.
• Because people get so much email, they don't want an alert when a new one arrives. Thus I can't get someone's attention like a text could.
• With IM, there is no open standard. People are on different networks. With SMS, any phone can text any other phone.
• With IM, there is an expectation that if you show up as available, people can have a conversation with you.
• IM also requires a separate identifier (screen name) to a phone number. Why should I have to remember/store more than one piece of info in order to contact the same phone?

Such gateways are no use. They require knowing which network someone uses! I have hundreds of contacts in my phone book and don't know or care about which network they're on.


Bollocks. As a consumer, I'd prefer SMS. I don't think I'm the only one.

So you need to know a number rather than some text (which is typically easier to remember)??? my phone contacts have the e-mail so no difference here.


I think that's the point. E-mail, being an open system, will outpace SMS going forward.


Wrong here. I get SMS spam on my LANDLINE through stupid text to voice SMS. This despite the fact that I don't text.


If you want their attention why not call? For me the e-mail alert is fine. My junk mail is filtered out by my desktop system. The nice part of iMAP.


True but to me this doesn't offset the cost of SMS. As has been said carriers are making a lot of money on this system.


Hence, the custom message option. "I'm here, I'm around, I'm out". In addition, I've learned to have no such expectation. What's really the difference. You seem to be expecting them to respond to the SMS anyway.



This is actually a disadvantage of SMS as the IM address acts as a universal number you can reach whether they're on the phone, computer, public station, etc.


Again how is this different than knowing the phone number. Its a piece of information. It's stored in the contact list?


I'm sure you not. Still doesn't change the argument going forward.

physguy, I had a reply all queued up, but you damned near copied it word for word. Creepy.

Ditto!

Because I'll always need to know the phone number, so as to call them if necessary. It's adding hassle to me (having to ask for and write down two pieces of information instead of one), for no discernible benefit and some definite drawbacks.

Spam? Never had any except from my network operator. I believe the Telephone Preference Service may work here too.


People can respond to an SMS at leisure. If the person is present, the message is dealt with immediately, but if they're busy or not present it's stored in an inbox until they're ready to respond.


Calling is for really important things, like if you're running late for a meeting and need to reschedule. Texting lets you find out (based on how quickly someone replies) if they're available for a chat.

I still maintain there's a place for a standard, interoperable (unlike IM), instant (unlike email), unobtrusive (unlike calling) form of messaging. Everyone who keeps telling me to find my friends' email addresses is missing the fact that it would take a lot of effort to do. I have friends with no net connection at all, and others who check once or twice a week. Even if everyone had email, it's a lot of work to gather their addresses, and you can't guarantee that the message will go directly to their phone.

Why mess with something that works, to replace it with something that requires more effort on my part and doesn't give any advantages? (The only advantage I can see is cost, and personally I have enough free text messages each month to not care about that one. I quite like the existence of the charges for spam control, as I've said.)

Amorya

"I'd rather Apple support my desire to plug in serial devices (and I repeat, that every other device on the market supports!!) than wait for 4-5 years for everyone to adopt USB."

Remember the screaming about that surrounding the original iMac? Same thing. Look at where the puck is going, not where it is. If you're expecting anything different from Apple, you're not paying attention to the company's products.


And, straight to the namecalling. Excellent.

Whatever.

As BTW if you going to resort to name calling at least read the post(s) completely. It was said that SMS was to 'get their attention'. If you want their attention, not just to bug them with some inane tidbit if information they probably don't need this instant, then call them.

Cheers,

Back on track a little bit.

Regarding the NEED to do these things. NEED, for a business is always driven by market/profit/costs. If this report is true

Mac/iPhone market report


Then is seems that Apple is judging what it NEEDs to do quite well. Again, adding these features is a good thing and a number of them certainly will be, at some point.

This wasn't decided by the market, the market was given no choice. Few people use SMS on a computer where IM and email are widely available. Look at it this way. If SMS, IM, and email were given an equal chance across the mobile phone market do you actually think people would pick SMS?


As long as your service has a good spam blocker its easy enough to limit who is allowed to send email into your inbox. There is nothing you can do to limit SMS messages. And you get charged for it.


I really want you to explain how and why this is wise?

Tut.. tut... Using your poor historical analogy..Isn't it more along the lines of the iPhone supports a plug in serial device, but only one, yes just one, and doesn't support USB at all at present? What do we have now? No beloved and superior IM at all, but just a crippled SMS.

Now that iPhone sales have tailed off sharply, to whom is Apple trying to sell their iPhones? Certainly not the business market, that can be agreed. Will the European iPhone model be embraced by their SMS hungry users? No, not without changes. It is for that reason alone, that I believe Apple will deliver.

If Apple really cared to unshackle their customers from the clutches of the evil carriers charging them a ransom for SMS, maybe they'd conside VOIP support too, then eh, like Nokia? Now that really would be forward thinking.

Care to give at least some support to your statement that you might have some credibility. Did you read the link above? Where is there any credible information the "iPhone sales have tailed off sharply? ?

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles..._in_cards.html

From July and CIBC analyst-- "Based on our store checks, we believe that demand for the iPhone has seen a significant decline in the past 10 days," analyst Ittai Kidron told clients. "We have noticed decent inventories at stores, and thin demand at best. In fact, most Apple store visitors were not looking at the device and only a very small subset bought it."

Surveys by Piper Jaffray also concurred.

Other than just the routine gushing for all things Apple, is there any evidence to support that a "significant decline" in iPhone sales has been reversed?

Who cares!? Wrong point. Nearly all devices sold have neither email ior IM support. But hell, lets IM them anyway .. from my iPhone...Oops.. I can't which Apple doesn't support anyway.

Just sell the damned thing, as it's obviously not the device for you.

As for IM ... unlimited data + web-based IM. Solved. Apple doesn't need to provide their own client.

Sarcasm....Humour check!!

Did you actually take the time to read the RECENT link above?