Must have improvements - Page 2

You're still not reading carefully enough.

I IM to people's SMS-only phones *all the time*. Done. Fini. Mission accomplished. And *gasp* they respond. Solved problem.

IMO, IM was left out solely for one reason: AT&T would have shit a brick, as it would completely gut one of their cash cows.

I suspect that, <24 hrs after an SDK is released, a true honest to god IM client (that you can send to SMS-only phones) will appear that bypasses AT&T's SMS system to use the unlimited data plan instead. And at that point, AT&T will realize that they swallowed the Trojan Horse. Buh-bye SMS charges.

Unless, of course, you want to keep bending over for AT&T. Go right ahead, it's your money after all.

Kickaha, you don't bring up the already existing webIM sites that seems to work quite well (not that I wouldn't rather have a native app for this). Is there a reason? Just curious if you have problems with them or what?

See below.


On adding features like multiple recipients? Probably. On adding MMS? I really, really doubt it. The European market is a bit different at the carrier end as well...


TOTALLY agreed. From what I hear, SMS in Europe is damned near free. Customers there don't get bent over a barrel like US customers do, and the carriers don't have quite the rich revenue stream coming from it that their US counterparts do. Which means they'll be a lot less likely to bitch about IM, when it comes to replace, stomp on, and make SMS look utterly stupid. (Guessing that Jabber will become the de facto IM std. Most clients, outside of MSN, support it.)

My bet? We'll see an official IM client from Apple after the iPhone is rolled out worldwide. The US carriers are the ones to lose the most from an IM client. Eurocarriers don't seem like they'd mind *too* much, and as you point out, Nokia has VOIP going.

IM, email, and VOIP are going to screw the US carriers much more than anyone else... which means they couldn't really play their hand with just the US carriers on board. Once they get other companies with them, I don't see it being anything but a matter of time.

Piper Jaffray, CIBC, UBS, Goldman Sachs, BofA have all reduced their own initial estimates for the number of iPhones they believe will be sold in the final qtr. Piper's new estimate is for 800,000, the others are all less than the 1 million Apple forecast. So, RBC believes its channel checks support higher numbers. I'm going with Goldman on this one.

To support sales initiatives in Europe, Apple will need to deliver a better SMS app, irrespective of considerations of 3G support.

Nope, just never needed them. I can do this directly from my IM client. On the iPhone, they're a good replacement at the moment.

Personally, couldn't care about MMS. But everyone I know in Dublin and London, without exaggeratioon, will use MMS to send crappy photos taken with their cell phones to their mates. Their mates phones all support SMS and MMS, so its easy. So, i dont believe that encouraging the use of email to send a photo will work for them, if most other phones dont support email.

SMS to multiple recipients is a must for that market as literally it will be a deal breaker for so many potential young buyers when lack of copy/paste is factored in. So I'm confident I will get what I want out of it.

Email -> MMS. Done. Really. Not a problem. I have emailed pics to people on their phones more than once. From my email client.

Seriously, toss in an IM client, (or use one of the WebIM sites physguy has mentioned) and you have IM <-> SMS, IM <-> IM, email -> MMS, email <-> email. And that's today.


Great. Did you ever send Apple feedback?

Yes, Apple received feedback.

Also, one day after purchase of the iPhone I realized that I couldn't text multiple recipients. There was nothing on the web about it at that time. Needing a different headset that would fit in my ears, I went to Apple's 5th Avenue store. I spoke with a sales assitant there and inquired about my issue with SMS, thinking I must be doing something wrong. Her response was "Wow.. that's odd..didn't realize that myself. I'm sure it will be addressed soon. I'd like it too"

It would be nice if you could provide links for others to read. Here's the latest Goldman estimate I could find quickly. Doesn't seem like they think it's tanking or tailing off sharply.

Aug 1 report

From Goldman Analyst

Cool beans. I bitch to them regularly.


I agree, it seems like a silly oversight. If they're going to plop an SMS client in there, they may as well make it a decent one.

On the iPhone, IM is impractical as an SMS agent if texting multiple recipients while on the go. As far I know, no browser based IM solution for the iPhone currently available supports the sending of a message to multiple SMS recipients. It just doesn't address my needs. One-one one, perhaps but then I dont need it for that (i.e. IM to SMS; still more cumbersome and requires additional set-up), and even then I also physically need to be logged on via a web application, and then I cant receive calls on my iPhone while on Edge.

But USB and CDRW were improvements over what was already out there. The only problem was the transition period.

No-one's yet convinced me that any of these proposed alternatives to SMS are better. The only reason I see presented is cost, and I maintain that I get enough free SMS messages per month for that not to be an issue. Seriously, there is no other reason it's better. (FWIW, MMS solves the 160 character problem.)


It's not a solved problem. There is no universal solution to this, that works across networks and internationally. None of the solutions (as far as I know) provide delivery reports, which show when the SMS is received on the phone.


SMS is nearly free, yes. In fact, my phone contract gives me unlimited MSN IMs as well as a large number of SMS. But I've uninstalled the MSN client from my phone, since I don't want to use IM on the move. I have tried both and found SMS to be superior!


You can only do that if you know their mobile network, to know what address to send to.

Stop trying to propose 'solutions' that require more work on my part than the existing state of play!

I'm hopeful that Apple is not trying to shoe-box me into third party browser based solutions that will require more effort on my part to support what I want to do, and that I can so easily accomplish with every other device on the market today. Hoping it's just an oversight -- it must be. Disappointed that they haven't already addressed it.

Actually, there is, if people would only use it. At this rate though, you're right, it'll never happen, and we'll continue along in this balkanization of information exchange.

Jabber client on any phone with data capabilities. Jabber -> SMS gateway for legacy phones. This isn't rocket science. I believe MSN is the only major client these days that doesn't include Jabber support. I wonder why that is... hmm... oh right, balkanization.


Mine doesn't. \


Great! It's there for you to use. I'm talking about where things are *going*, not just where they *are*. Apple has repeatedly made moves that look utterly daft when surrounded by the current market - but prove to be prophetic about where things are *going*. I believe this is another one.


Sorry, I just don't buy this. When I send an IM, an email, call, or txt someone on my phone, I never, and I mean never, have to remember their address, screenname, phone number... I select *them*, and the rest is taken care of for me. There's no extra work to do. If they call, txt, IM, or email me first, then I never even have to enter in their info in the first place. It just works, as it should. I rarely ever dial a number, enter an address, or screenname manually. I pick from a list, or autocomplete takes over and I only ever have to remember their actual name. Or part of it. Pretty simple. *shrug*

Look, the lack of MMS surprised me too - for about five seconds. The iPhone isn't about bringing internet to the phone networks, it's about making the phone network Just Another ISP to access the internet. The internet is where all the good stuff is happening. Being blocked from it by your carrier is just kind of silly, when the hardware is more than capable. Breaking the current business models to get the carriers into the ISP bin is going to take a while, but I do believe that's where this is going.

Hell, bring some of the more useful features of SMS (receipt notification) into the world of IM, for all I care - the point is that the phone networks are currently off in their own sandbox, and limiting user access to the wider internet, as well as charging an arm and a leg for simple data transfers to other phones, when there's no reason other than people let them. *Nobody* would put up with an ISP that did that in this day and age. They used to exist, but folks realized how phenomenally stupid that was. We're seeing exactly the same thing now with the cell carriers. History will repeat itself. Any protocol that insists on being tied to a specific network will be subsumed by a protocol that spans networks. That's just the way these things work out over time.

The iPhone is a shot, not over the bow of the carriers, but right at their waterline. And I don't even think most of them realize it.

The ubiquity of SMS is not because of its superiority. It is ubiquitous because the mobile phone companies force it to be by denying the alternatives a fair chance in the market. As more phones gain IM and email clients the situation will change.

I'm not sure of your insistence that SMS in inherently easier to use. It doesn't send messages by osmosis. You have to tell it who the message is going to the same as IM and email. Generally all of this information is indexed so we never have to remember it. We only have to know the name of the person whom we are sending the message to.


Of course sales slowed there was no way the iPhone was going to continue to sell 200,000 units every day. I wouldn't lean on what analysts say as gospel. They've been wrong many times.

As I've said before, this whole iPhone 'process' is very much paralleling the iPod introduction including the complaints and criticisms.

1) Too expensive will never sell - whoops selling like hotcakes
2) Doesn't have the features it MUST have
iPod - FM tuner; iPhone - MMS
iPod - voice recording; iPhone mechanical keyboard
etc., etc., etc.

Here's the next parallel just out on AI.

iPhone overcoming corporate barriers

It continues to be Apple trying to move in a new direction vs reproducing what's out there. Trying to develop a new market segment, rather than compete directly in existing segments. IMO, for every 'lost sale' due to these missing features Apple is picking up more than 1 sale to new users of 'expensive' phones.

All of the features in this thread are good suggestions and should be posted to Apple but if they're not implemented, or Apple takes a while to do so, it not going to be a major impact to iPhone sales and adoption. Apple is once again trying to 'skate to where the puck will be' with multi-touch and a well thought out UI taking precedence over feature list, its just that features lists are easy to compare, user experience is not. I think they're right. I also think they'll get to the features that will drive the future use, which may, or may not include those in this thread.

I'm starting to see a bit more where you're coming from... it sounds to me like the providers in the US keep locking out features of the internet from phones, and you (obviously) don't like this.

They don't do that here. 3 tried, but went back and gave full net access. Nearly every phone can run a java MSN client (although it's not used very often), and phones with a native API can run much nicer versions.

SMS here is cheap and reliable. MSN on phones is also cheap and reliable, assuming you want to talk to other MSN users. So the difference is which is more pleasant to use. I really think you're underestimating the utility of being able to send something to a phone number, rather than a separate piece of information. Yes, my phone has an address book, which even has a field for MSN. But when you're chatting to a pretty girl in a bar, you ask for her number, rather than her number and her MSN address.

If the networks provided a standardised way of mapping phone number to MSN address, that issue would be resolved for me and my major objection would be over. I don't mean as something transitional though, or an SMS gateway. I mean something that lets me just click new MSN message, and enter any phone number. It has to work with anyone, and not be opt-out or anything. But then I'd give it a go.

BTW, the use of MSN is because it is the major IM network over here. Skype is the only other big player. There's no way any phone company will convince Britons to ditch SMS for IM unless MSN is supported.


I'd say that SMS is more open than MSN, as it works to any mobile phone in the world, without having to go through one carrier's servers. MSN is controlled by one company. SMS is not.

Amorya

YEEESSSSS! We have contact!


Okay, now we have a clear base to work from.


Alright, fair enough - now take it a step further though, (assuming you never want to have your IM and phone number tied by a third party, some anonymity is nice) and just say "send me your vCard". She can include whatever info on it she chooses, or you can send it to her phone, etc, etc. The initial phone number becomes just a way to get the whole of the info to the other person. I frequently call the person's number the second they give it to me, so they have mine in their call log. In this scenario, I'd just attach my vCard as well.

Or heck, send it to their email, or their IM, or what have you, and on next phone sync, all devices have a copy of it. Win.

The goal is that you just ask for 'contact information'. They give it, you use it.


SMS is controlled by an industry, Jabber is not.

I see your point about MSN vs. Jabber though - the solution, IMO, is an IM client that simply supports both, in a manner that is as simple to use as SMS. Get it out there, have legacy SMS-only phones use the gateways that already exist, and start the migration away from the closed-garden SMS approach to a more open one. I agree that the lack of a single IM protocol is annoying - but Jabber keeps growing, and I expect that it will end up being Jabber vs. MSN in this space... and while MS has a proven track record locking in data formats, they're not so great at protocols when an open version is available.

I tend to send vcards to pass contact information, but I think I'm in a minority. (People tell me off for being a geek when I do.) The standard way to do it is one person reads out their phone number, then the other person dials it. The first person then saves the number from their missed calls list.


You know that and I know that. Most non-geek people I've met who've even heard of Jabber think it's controlled by Google.


I personally don't care too much which IM format wins... I use Adium and already have accounts on most of them. I hope it isn't Skype, because that protocol hasn't been reverse engineered yet. (I fear it will be though -- Skype seems to be gaining popularity fast over here.)

Anyhow, back on the topic of SMS... I still would prefer to use it compared to an IM solution, because it just works. There's no trying to work out if a device will support it... any phone anywhere in the world will. It's a great last resort when all you have is a phone number. And with delivery reports you can know if the message got through or not.

In the same way, I'm not a fan of voice over IP, outside individual companies. There isn't a standard (although SIP is trying), and everyone I know who uses it either uses Skype (which is becoming a de-facto standard in a scary proprietary way) or has VoIP bridged back to the normal telephone network and just passes out a standard phone number.

I think I just want an easy life here -- I don't want to be part of a format war, with all the incompatibility and effort it'll entail. SMS works everywhere. MMS works most of the time. If in the future a new protocol is as reliable and as easy to use, I guess I'll switch. But until then I'd rather leave the battles to someone else to fight.

Amorya

So moving on, can anyone tell me if the following things have been implemented (or is there any word on them)

Bluetooth profile for file sharing?
Delivery reports for SMS?
Video recording?

Sorry to bump this but can anyone please confirm if any of the functions in my above post are now possible on the iphone?

Thanks

No, none of the above mentioned have bee dealt with.

I don't believe any of those functions are there yet.

If the Jabber server implements JEP-0013 then you get the same kind of store and forward behavior as SMS but not the notification part. Unless you build it into the client. I think JEP-0013 is still draft but at least one open source server implemented it.

I suppose the easy way is to see if the user is "Away" and then beep/vibrate if a new IM appears. "Away" being "haven't done anything in the last 5 minutes".

While not Jabber IM I thought Colloquy got ported to the iPhone.

With neither C# or Java a Jabber client app on the iPhone ain't gonna be done by me.

Thanks for confirming that.

"Caveat Emptor"

The offerings of other providers don't obligate Apple.

They certainly don't.

I'm ready to dump my iPhone. I absolutely love the browser.. it truly is sensational, and yes it's the best music phone out there by some margin , but IMO everything else is below par compare to the competition.

Apple has spent more time figuring out ways to stop hackers and have added zero requested functionality other than the ability to charge their customers for using music they already own as a ring tone.

For me, the changes need to be in place for Nov launch of UK iPhone or its time to move on.

Apple has said they will not stop the software hacks, they just won't actively prevent software updates from breaking the hacks. Jobs has even alluded to blessing some of the 3rd party software that has been developed. As far as hacking the phone to use on any carrier. Apple is contractually obligated to stop that but so far has not gone out of its way to stop it.

Software updates will come when Apple is ready, they are not working on Riptide's schedule.

The phone's been out the market for what - less than 100 days?

Sell it if you wish. I just got mine and plan to keep it for years. The things you find to be show stoppers aren't on my radar at all.

Has anyone seen the new features on firmware update 1.1.1? They are posted on Engadget.com and are included on the UK version of the phone. Customizing the double-click of the home button, TV Out option, Edge roaming on/off, and of course WiFi Itunes store. Pretty cool I just want to know where the MMS is.

essentially all of the improvements requested here are possible w/ software updates.
my main regret w/ the iphone is lack of a2dp. how do you sell a phone billed as "the greatest iPod ever", give it bluetooth, and NOT let someone listen to music via said bluetooth?

that said, here's my wishlist, much of which has been addressed already:
via software updates:
FLASH support for safari
option for horizontal keyboard in all apps
multiple sms recipients
faster way to delete multiple emails
ability to create mailbox folders for each email account, regardless of pop/imap
copy/paste text
send notes to calendar
voice dialing!
consistent UI [why are some apps black, some grey, some steel blue?]
weather displayed in icon [instead of sunny and 73] - the ical icon shows today's date, why not weather, and why does the clock show 10:15? and the stocks icon could show the DJIA and daily change.
a tip button on the calculator? to quickly add 18%?
ability to create music playlists on the phone
smart shuffle [as in iTunes]
some schweet games i can play on an airplane

via hardware updates:
A2DP
add'l storage [16 - 32 gigs in january?]
video recording [640 x 480 x 30 fps or better - N95 does this]
gps [with on / off similar to bluetooth and wifi to save battery]
i don't care about 3G. i'm in range of home/work/free wifi 95% of the time.

...and a laser pointer and a subwoofer and a built in electric razor, and a fast lane pass, and a mobil speedpass all built in.

I doubt we will see any change on the hardware setting. Apple would be better of just including them in the iphone sucessor. When I get mine im just going to make sure i alwasy carry around my ixus! :-) Its such a nice screen for photo viewing so why not just make sure you have a nice camera to hand.

God, i hate repeating myself all the time on this issue, but i am sure that people on these forums just believe what they believe and refuse to listen to anything else.

There has been real email clients on many many mobile phone in Europe for years and years, i honestly have not had a phone in at least 5 years that has not had a POP3 email client. POP3 is easy to set up and most people have an email address they can use.

You think that the mobile phone companies force people to use SMS? If email was better at phone to phone messaging then we would all be emailing each other from our phones now. SMS won because it is easier, it is quicker, it is push technology and it is far more reliable than email - email remember has tom leave the network operators network and go accross the internet through 2 different email providers servers back across the internet and back onto a mobile network, SMS and MMS at most travels 2 networks, phone to phone.

Did you know that SMS was never meant to be a consumer service? It was designed purely as a way to update sim cards and for servicing. It was a complete accident that SMS took off the way it did and took all the network operators by complete surprise! This is how you know it is a great technology, nothing forced, nothing marketed, just a killer application that changed the face of mobile communications.

Why do you feel that it would take a hardware change? When I use my camera on my iPhone I get 2 MPixels of "live" video displayed on my screen - if they software interpolated that down to 640 X 480 and saved it, it would be a video recording...and with the built in scaling software (or is it hardware?) on the iPhone, it shouldn't be that difficult.

I've read others saying they thought it required additional hardware also and I just don't see it.

It never ceases to amuse me that Apple has all these brown-nosing cheerleaders -- Pom poms et all! "Go Apple, Go, I love all that you do. so!

Good for you!! "Go team, go!"

No, I'm not a team supporter, I'm an informed consumer. I researched the iPhone and made sure I would be happy with it and that it would suit my needs. I was smart.

Too bad you weren't.