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post #41 of 99
8/20/07 at 11:35am
I think Apple should look into three options for the future.

1) The iPhone should "click" when you type like the iPod does when you scroll

2) A non-QWERTY layout for the keys such as Dvorak should be an option.

3) The current keyboard layout "appears" to have large gaps between the keys. Eliminate the gaps and make the buttons "appear" larger.
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post #42 of 99
8/20/07 at 11:37am
Any consulting firm worth its salt would have used seasoned (sorry) QWERTY users and seasoned iPhone users and put them head to head.

Their claimed conclusion - that it takes time to learn - is right up front with Apple's iPhone info. They have proven what was already published.

And as for "User Centric said there were some "limited improvements in keyboard comfort as users progressed through the tasks on the iPhone."

All improvements are limited, so they stuck this in there as a verbal speed bump.
My god, what would unlimited improvements look like?
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post #43 of 99
8/20/07 at 11:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrpiddly View Post

I was under the impression that text messaging while driving was never safe.

A bonus for Apple. They should be using the results of this study and calling the iPhone the safest phone to text while driving because it's designed not to be easily used while driving, so says this study. \

text messaging while driving = MORON!

Ten years ago, we had Steve Jobs, Bob Hope and Johnny Cash.  Today we have no Jobs, no Hope and no Cash.

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Ten years ago, we had Steve Jobs, Bob Hope and Johnny Cash.  Today we have no Jobs, no Hope and no Cash.

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post #44 of 99
8/20/07 at 11:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clive At Five View Post

I think the funniest part about this article is the title....

"Sutdy: iPhone keypad less efficient than physical QWERTY keypads"

It's obvious this was posted to AI via iPhone.

-Clive

I wanted to be all witty and whatnot, but you beat me to it.

*Generally agrees with concerns about the credibility of the sutdy"
"Heavy is the head that wears the crown"
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"Heavy is the head that wears the crown"
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post #45 of 99
8/20/07 at 11:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Celemourn View Post

It's like pitting a kungfu master up against someone who has taken two lessons.

I'd pay to see that.
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post #46 of 99
8/20/07 at 11:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrpiddly View Post

I was under the impression that text messaging while driving was never safe.

First thing I thought when I read this thing!


Quote:
One participant tried to use their fingernail to press the keys and couldn't.

Well, this participant might have been accustomed to resistive touchscreens, where any form of pressure can count as a touch. The iPhone's capacitive screen (which doesn't actually react to pressure, but rather to proximity to materials with specific dielectric characteristics resembling human flesh) might understandably be confusing to someone in that position.
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post #47 of 99
8/20/07 at 11:51am
I haven't read all the comments left here before typing this, so I'm sure I am just repeating.

So they took a bunch of people who are well practiced at typing messages on a qwerty keyboard, had them use iPhone for the first time, and found they were not as good with the new iPhone than with what they are used and accustomed to.

Could they not have guessed that would be the case, from pure common sense?
Who the hell is spending money on such retarded research?
Even if it weren't such a useless experiment, isn't 20 people far too small a population to test on?
The headline "iPhone keypad less efficient than physical QWERTY keypads" makes it out to be a general case for all users, not just newbies, which is entirely misleading. Someone trying to get the Apple stock to dip again?
Why does AppleInsider support these loser "scientists"? Slow news day?

Rant over.
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post #48 of 99
8/20/07 at 11:51am
private
Cubist
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Cubist
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post #49 of 99
8/20/07 at 12:01pm
Sorry but this study sucks. They should try to get their money back.

Fist the study group is way too small at only 20 participants
Second the people being studied did not have the phone long enough to get used to it and become proficient.

Fair is fair, make the study mean something. Give us the real world results with no sugar candy, but make sure the study adds real value and measures real world conditions.

Measuring how fast someone types after just 5 or 10 minutes with a new device they never used can only measure "Out of the box" speed, then not only that but you are measuring against devices they have used a lot longer than 5 minutes.

Sorry this is GARBAGE.
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post #50 of 99
8/20/07 at 12:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpellino View Post

Any consulting firm worth its salt would have used seasoned (sorry) QWERTY users and seasoned iPhone users and put them head to head.

Their claimed conclusion - that it takes time to learn - is right up front with Apple's iPhone info. They have proven what was already published.

And as for "User Centric said there were some "limited improvements in keyboard comfort as users progressed through the tasks on the iPhone."

All improvements are limited, so they stuck this in there as a verbal speed bump.
My god, what would unlimited improvements look like?



I think the one thing that a lot of people so far have overlooked is the aspect of people walking in off the street and trying to type on the iphone. First impression is everything, if people think it's tough to type on the keyboard they may not purchase it. I think Apple can make some changes to the KB to make it easier for people to initially use, but for now its not something that leaves a great first impression like some of the other features or products apple makes.
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post #51 of 99
8/20/07 at 12:10pm
Here is another study:
Select a group of 20 people required to type a page long document using a standard key board and a Dvorak keyboard.

Provide them 5 minutes of familiarity with both devices prior to the study.

Do not discriminate against people that have used a standard keyboard.

Aim of study: Determine if the Dvorak keyboard slows down or speads up the ability of a user to type a document.

Obviously this is just as flawed.

Boy what people pass for science!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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post #52 of 99
8/20/07 at 12:11pm
Yeah, they should take a look at Justine (tastyblogsnack.com) who was the gal who got a 300 page itemized bill of all her iPhone text messages. She would likely skew the typing speed results a bit, however not in the direction that the reviewers would have wanted.

m

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #53 of 99
8/20/07 at 12:22pm
Quote:
Most QWERTY phone users initially used the iPhone by holding it with both hands and typing with their two thumbs. However, by the end of the session, most had decided that it was easier for them to use one index finger to type.

This means that mot (if not all) of the participants had never used the iPhone before.

One word: learning curve.

Just because Microsoft Paint is EASIER to learn than Photoshop doesn't mean people should ditch Photoshop for Paint...
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post #54 of 99
8/20/07 at 12:24pm
Since this is Software, why wouldn't Apple allow people to use custom keyboard layouts/sizes. Configurations that are conducive to single thumb typing and double-thumb, etc., etc. I'm sure there's lots of other layout options that would make life easier for people.
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post #55 of 99
8/20/07 at 12:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Yeah, they should take a look at Justine (tastyblogsnack.com) who was the gal who got a 300 page itemized bill of all her iPhone text messages. She would likely skew the typing speed results a bit, however not in the direction that the reviewers would have wanted.

m

She looks like a younger, better looking Cameron Diaz.

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GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #56 of 99
8/20/07 at 12:48pm
Quote:
MacDailyNews Take: This is so interesting that we decided to conduct a similar study of our own!

MacDailyNews took a total of 20 participants who had watched golf on TV, but never played the game. 10 of the participants had played field hockey. The other 10 had played ice hockey. Participants were give a bag of clubs, many balls, and were driven out to the first tee and told to begin play.

We recorded these detailed observations:
Most participants felt either that the ball was too small or the clubs were too long to hit accurate shots.
Most felt it was easier to watch golf on TV than to actually play the game.
Most participants noticed that the sand hindered their shots.
Most ice hockey players initially held the club like an ice hockey stick.
All ice hockey players believed playing ice hockey to be easier than playing golf.
Most field hockey players intitally held the club like a field hockey stick.
All field hockey players believed playing field hockey to be easier than playing golf.
Participants made an average of 11 strokes per hole higher than actual golfers (18 handicap).
In particular, participants struggled with driving, approach shots, chipping, putting, sand shots, and general etiquette.
One female field hockey participant tried to jump her golf cart over a stream, but was unsuccessful.
5 out of 20 participants asked if the golf tees could be used for every shot.
Participants expressed a great deal of frustration with the game of golf.

Based on our study's findings, it appears that non-golfers are likely to eventually increase their level of play with practice, hence actually becoming golfers.

Our study indicates that people who have never played golf are likely to have some level of initial frustration with the game. Although our analysis suggests that both types will eventually adapt to the game with practice, the learning curve for golf will be slightly steeper for field hockey players than for ice hockey players based mainly on that unfortunate golf cart and stream episode.

Learning to use Apple's iPhone expertly is immeasurably easier than learning how to play golf at its most basic.

Hahahaha....

- Xidius
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post #57 of 99
8/20/07 at 12:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Mozzarella View Post

I think Apple should look into three options for the future.

1) The iPhone should "click" when you type like the iPod does when you scroll.

It does this already, as long as the phone is not set to the vibrate mode.
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post #58 of 99
8/20/07 at 12:55pm
"The participants, none of which had ever used an iPhone, were then provided with one of the Apple handsets and asked to repeat the task."


So what does this study prove? That learning curves do indeed exist? WTF?





FUD. nothing more.
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post #59 of 99
8/20/07 at 12:59pm
I went through the same thing.
Are you taking your vitamin b6? It helped me a lot.

Hope It Goes Well!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewjnyc View Post

Personally, the touch screen keypad on the iPhone has been a godsend for me--I'm a cancer patient who has experienced significant loss of sensation in my fingertips as a side effect of chemotherapy (it should all come back in approx two years, I'm told), and before I got an iPhone, text messaging was extremely difficult/awkward with my old Sony Ericsson because of the reliance on physical feedback. I'm not doing 50wpm or anything on the iPhone, but I'm a heck of a lot faster than with a tactile keypad--and, more importantly, I'm making a lot, lot fewer typos...
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post #60 of 99
8/20/07 at 1:08pm
I like my iphone and I've had it since the release date - I also have a treo - i'm a good typist (100 wpm +) - and although, I love my iphone - I will never be as fast at typing on it as on my treo or a conventional keyboard... I found i tried to use my thumbs at first, as well - but have converted to using my index finger as well...
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post #61 of 99
8/20/07 at 1:09pm
The should have also included a group of texters that had experience in using the iPhone and another group that had never sent a text message on any type of phone. Then their "study" would have had some validity to it.

And the size of each group should have been much larger.
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post #62 of 99
8/20/07 at 1:19pm
Sounds like someone needs to have their thumbs sharpened.
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post #63 of 99
8/20/07 at 1:24pm
Or - perhaps Apple should enable bluetooth to work with a separate slick keyboard that can snap on to the device so that when you need to type a long email you have a choice!
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post #64 of 99
8/20/07 at 1:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

It does this already, as long as the phone is not set to the vibrate mode.

Not quite. The keyboard will "click" when you have "Keyboard Clicks" turned on. Which just makes for a bunch of clicking noise (IMO)..It doesn't have to do with vibration mode.
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post #65 of 99
8/20/07 at 1:43pm
I have no idea why AppleInsider would help publicize a study that was so limited in scope and so subject to over-interpretation. If you read elsewhere on the Internet, you'll find that the participants were given only 30 minutes of exposure to the iPhone prior to the test. And of that 30 minutes, you can guess how much was spent actually working with the keyboard. Apple recommends an evaluation period of 5 days. During this time, not only the user learns how to use the keyboard but the iPhone learns about the user. Mutual training. This study should only be viewed as initial impressions. A similar study should be conducted with people who have used the iPhone for 1 week and several weeks. From my own experience, I would guess that the results will be far more favorable to the iPhone.
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post #66 of 99
8/20/07 at 1:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phizz View Post

I haven't read all the comments left here before typing this, so I'm sure I am just repeating.

Then why are you wasting everyone's time?
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post #67 of 99
8/20/07 at 1:53pm
...until I got my thumbs narrowed. Now I'm super fast.
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post #68 of 99
8/20/07 at 1:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by onceuponamac View Post

Or - perhaps Apple should enable bluetooth to work with a separate slick keyboard that can snap on to the device so that when you need to type a long email you have a choice!

What's the point of bluetooth if you have to physically connect it? Isn't it all just software anyway? I mean, you're already connected to a keyboard (by way of the computer USB) when you sync the iPhone anyway, right?
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post #69 of 99
8/20/07 at 2:01pm
Quote:
Participants were given little time to familiarize themselves with the iPhone's touch keyboard ahead of the study and therefore their texting abilities were still at the novice level. Throughout the study, however, User Centric said there were some "limited improvements in keyboard comfort as users progressed through the tasks on the iPhone."

"Overall, the findings in the study can be taken as a good representation of what iPhone text messaging is like for a customer who has just bought an iPhone and is using it for the first time," said Gavin Lew, Managing Director at User Centric. "It's important to consider the changes a person has to make when they switch to the iPhone.


I hate to say it, but this is a self-evident study. New users who didn't have any time to read the Owner's manual, didn't practice on the keypad, and were sending their first messages on the first day of using an iPhone.

What else did you expect?

And the study specifically says that participants were improving their typing skills as time went by.

What more could you ask for?

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post #70 of 99
8/20/07 at 2:18pm
Theere os npthung wtogg wth the kwyboard in the iphonr, iut is QWERTY keyd.
I sm wrtiing ghis on my iPhone nuw ans is finr, 40-50wpm. qhat os wrongf wirth rverybody????


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post #71 of 99
8/20/07 at 2:19pm
1. comparing long time qwerty texters with their performance on an iphone the first time? huh?

2. just the fact that someone bothered to do a study on this confirms iphone's immense popularity.
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post #72 of 99
8/20/07 at 2:30pm
Tactile vs non tactile asside, I'd have to agree with the interface complaints. The auto correct feature has had me RETYPING words too often - and to catch it in mid-word with it's imminent sabotage means slowing down typing altogether. If it would stay the hell out of the way (by default) it would be a big help.

I have no problems with the keyboard. Without cut-and-paste and a whole host of interface improvements, it's very much a version 1.0 product.
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post #73 of 99
8/20/07 at 2:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobrk View Post

...until I got my thumbs narrowed. Now I'm super fast.

Those iGrinders work great for that don't they?
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post #74 of 99
8/20/07 at 2:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JupiterOne View Post

What's the point of bluetooth if you have to physically connect it? Isn't it all just software anyway? I mean, you're already connected to a keyboard (by way of the computer USB) when you sync the iPhone anyway, right?


i meant snap on (so I don't lose it) not connect through the charge adapter - agree that bluetooth avoids the necessity of this.
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post #75 of 99
8/20/07 at 3:39pm
I came to the iPhone after never having used a Blackberry/anything of its ilk. I found the keyboard dead easy and I can zip along on it just fine. (Rule number one: touch lightly. It doesn't take much. If I can accurately hit a link on a non-magnified page in what would be about the equivalent of a 5-point font, it's sure as hell possible to hit the right key on a much, much bigger keyboard.)

Since then, I've been handed someone else's Blackberry to enter my contact info. I found the keys perfectly usable but the navigation & methods for getting to special characters more than a bit clunky. I'm pretty sure long-time users wouldn't.

So... to each their own, basically, but I'd be far more interested in the first impressions of people who'd never used either type of phone before, because of course your existing assumptions are going to skew things. Methodology 101. \
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post #76 of 99
8/20/07 at 3:52pm
What an idiotic study.

And it's bad enough that they're trying to spread this FUD, did AI really need to run it with a headline that's just as misleading as the study itself?

Makes it look like AI may have actually bought into this tripe.
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post #77 of 99
8/20/07 at 4:01pm
now ask them
would you trade in that keyboard for an iPhone???

20 would say yes

it's one of those "generate news and buzz about yourself" meaningless surveys
have 10 50 year olds go against text messaging against 10 teenagers......gee old people can't text
I APPLE THEREFORE I AM
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I APPLE THEREFORE I AM
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post #78 of 99
8/20/07 at 4:32pm
Lets see...
Sample size: 20 people.
Time to familiarize with phone: 1 MINUTE
http://machinist.salon.com/blog/2007...iphone_keypad/

What moronic 'scientists'.
Serving humanity one sarcastic comment at a time.
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Serving humanity one sarcastic comment at a time.
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post #79 of 99
8/20/07 at 4:36pm
It might be nice if Apple released an iPhone with physical QWERTY keyboard alongside the current one. The screen would be smaller, but still be multi-touch.

Most people would go for the current (no keyboard) phone. It'd be better for surfing the web and watching videos. But the keyboard version would be picked up by a lot of businesses and all those people who just can't live without one.

Apple will never do it of course. It'd complicate the product line.

I've never used an iPhone, but am looking forward to doing so. I currently use a phone with just a numeric keypad. If I can get a decent typing speed on that, I can't imagine a virtual QWERTY keyboard being too much trouble

Amorya
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post #80 of 99
8/20/07 at 4:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by minderbinder View Post

What an idiotic study.

And it's bad enough that they're trying to spread this FUD, did AI really need to run it with a headline that's just as misleading as the study itself?

Makes it look like AI may have actually bought into this tripe.

More likely than AI buying into the tripe, I'd believe AI was bought off--paid to post the study. Now who might be willing to pay for it? Try Verizon, Nokia, or RIMM.

So tell us, AI, why did you post it?
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