or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Software › Mac OS X › Apple seeds new Leopard build via Software Update
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Apple seeds new Leopard build via Software Update - Page 2

post #41 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by aegisdesign View Post

Spaces - I first used something like that on an AT&T 3B2 in 1986. The remnants of that are in OSX in the UNIX 'screen' command already - try it. Then we got UNIX terminals with X Windows and a virtual screen manager.

No. You used Virtual Desktops in their crude X-Windows form way back when. Spaces is an evolution of VD that has that NeXT flare which NeXTSTEP the visual envy of X-Windows wanting Display Postscript and all that WindowServer.app was way back when.

Time Machine - Mac has rsync and tar already or even 'Make Archive' in the Finder, Windows has had a backup program since DOS's BACKUP program in DOS 1.0.

Time Machine is not rsync

Screen Sharing - Apple Remote Desktop first released in the Mac OS 8 days. Or try VNC.

NXHost was around before VNC and obviously ARD. ARD is the more feature rich child.

Stacks - a reimplementation of sprung tab windows in MacOS8

No. Stacks today is definitely not a reimplementation.

Downloads folder - it's just a folder!

[b]Even a Folder is a special file. The point is how you make your interface extend functionality and ease-of-use. The wheel is old news but has evolved.

Quick Look - Used to be called Quick View in Windows NT 3.1

Quick View in NT most certainly isn't Quick Look. Don't compare a Bitmap screen dump window Server in NT 3.1 to Display PDF and hardware accelerated OpenGL 2 with shader language 1.2 from CoreAnimation that via Delegated Services allows one to run a small footprint of a Cocoa application to view the contents of various filetypes only limited by how open their specs are to Apple. If Apple provides an public API for Quick Look expect third parties to extend services to this tool.

The point I'm making is that each of these is nothing new if you just look at a feature comparison chart, it's how they are done that is important and that's usually where Apple totally wins - Implementation detail.

The Spreadsheet was originally just a MxN Matrix from Linear Algebra. It's how you leverage the tools that make them reinvented.
post #42 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

There's an EGL framework in the Leopard system that wasn't in Tiger and it contains OpenGL code so it looks to be one and the same.

"EGL can be implemented on multiple operating systems (such as Symbian, embedded Linux, Unix, and Windows)"

OS X is a unix system so it can be easily ported to it.

"OpenVG is a royalty-free, cross-platform API that provides a low-level hardware acceleration interface for vector graphics libraries such as Flash and SVG. OpenVG is targeted primarily at handheld devices that require portable acceleration of high-quality vector graphics for compelling user interfaces and text on small screen devices - while enabling hardware acceleration to provide fluidly interactive performance at very low power levels."

Leopard definitely achieves fluidity with minimal resource usage. PDF scrolling is smooth as butter as is coverflow and Apple needed fast rendering of vector graphics for their resolution independent interface.

I noticed that there were lots of mentions about portable devices on the EGL site, which would suggest it was possibly used on the iphone but the OS X 86 project people don't mention EGL in the list of iphone frameworks.

Whatever they're using in Leopard, it's quite clear that 2D rendering is vastly improved so if they haven't implemented QD2D Extreme, it's not necessary.

Interesting.

Do you think they've abandoned Extreme 2D? It wouldn't be the first time.
post #43 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Do you think they've abandoned Extreme 2D? It wouldn't be the first time.

Quartz 2D Extreme was renamed Quartz GL in Leopard.
post #44 of 57
today was the last straw, after barely 3 betas of apple's OS in over a F*CKIN YEAR, and then to ONLY push it out via software update, and NOT ALLOW US TO DOWNLOAD IT from our developer accounts. Meaning if were are running an older more STABLE Build (like an intelligent developer) WE HAVE TO INSTALL 499, THEN do an UPDATE..

This is ridiculous! with tiger there were builds to download every other day.

I'm done developing apps for leopard. DONE. Apple stomped all over its developers (that's why it sent out the stupid survey)


Screw you apple.
post #45 of 57
post #46 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chucker View Post

Quartz 2D Extreme was renamed Quartz GL in Leopard.

Well, now it gets interesting because EGL doesn't really look to be a substitute.

Can you say whether 2D is working in Leopard to the point that it will be released this time?
post #47 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Well, now it gets interesting because EGL doesn't really look to be a substitute.

I don't believe EGL is directly related.

Can you say whether 2D is working in Leopard to the point that it will be released this time?[/QUOTE]

It did work okay for me a few builds ago.
post #48 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Well, now it gets interesting because EGL doesn't really look to be a substitute.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chucker

I don't believe EGL is directly related.

Indeed but I wonder if it could be tied in with Quartz GL. Is there a definition of what comprises Quartz 2D Extreme which might exclude EGL from being a part of it? It may simply be a sub-component. It could of course just be there for 3rd parties to use like the Tcl framework - not sure if Apple use that one themselves - it just seems a bit odd that it has appeared in Leopard and seems to offer capabilities directly relating to what Apple need.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chucker

It did work okay for me a few builds ago.

Did you still have to enable it manually via Quartz Debug or is it turned on by default?
post #49 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by yama View Post

Sigh. Let's make this simple:



Like what others have said above, it's the implementation that's the new feature in Leopard.

Now can we stop this "Windows has had backup software for years" nonsense? Please?

they're not the same thing. time machine is more like previous versions in vista aka volume shadow copy in server 2003. but the big difference is previous version doesn't require external storage. Time machine is like a combo of previous version and windows home server. Where with WHS it backups up your computer daily and you can access previous versions of the files from the networked backup, and access your backed up files and any computer on your home network from anywhere in the world, etc.

I still don't see how it's nonsense cause Windows has had free backup software included in the OS for years and it isn't till 7 years later that OS X is finally following suit with something it should've had in the beginning and you still have to buy external storage which isn't included with a new mac to utilize it. So actually it's still a crap implementation unless Apple bundles an external drive with every new mac or copy of Leopard sold and that ain't gonna happen. Sorry guys but backup software shouldn't REQUIRE external storage!!
post #50 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielsmi View Post

So actually it's still a crap implementation unless Apple bundles an external drive with every new mac or copy of Leopard sold and that ain't gonna happen. Sorry guys but backup software shouldn't REQUIRE external storage!!

Heh, it's a crap implementation that folks will actually use as opposed to the Windows one where folks didn't.

And backing up to the same drive that going to go *poof* is dumb as bricks. The only reason it makes sense at all on a Windows box is because all too often you're wiping and reinstalling to remove the cruft. And yeah, I say that as a MS .NET developer running my macs in bootcamp more often than not.

Begone troll.

Vinea
post #51 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

Heh, it's a crap implementation that folks will actually use as opposed to the Windows one where folks didn't.

And backing up to the same drive that going to go *poof* is dumb as bricks. The only reason it makes sense at all on a Windows box is because all too often you're wiping and reinstalling to remove the cruft. And yeah, I say that as a MS .NET developer running my macs in bootcamp more often than not.

Begone troll.

Vinea

Yes I know that but other OSes gives you the option to backup to external storage not require you. What makes you think folks will use this more than backup in Windows? It requires and external storage Windows doesn't, what's the % of mac users with external storage? Only they are eligible to use time machine, then what % of those eligible to use it actually will? Time Machine has more requirements to meet before it can be used which means it's only available to a much smaller % of users, while with other OSes it's available to 100% of it's users.

I'm not a troll for stating facts. I'm not calling people names or making up bullshit to piss people off. I just don't always agree with what Apple does unlike some people on here who believe they can do no wrong.
post #52 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielsmi View Post

Yes I know that but other OSes gives you the option to backup to external storage not require you. What makes you think folks will use this more than backup in Windows? It requires and external storage Windows doesn't, what's the % of mac users with external storage? Only they are eligible to use time machine, then what % of those eligible to use it actually will? Time Machine has more requirements to meet before it can be used which means it's only available to a much smaller % of users, while with other OSes it's available to 100% of it's users.

I'm not a troll for stating facts. I'm not calling people names or making up bullshit to piss people off. I just don't always agree with what Apple does unlike some people on here who believe they can do no wrong.

And seriously, what is the use of a backup if it's on the same internal hdd? Time machine has a usecase for "oops, I accidentally deleted that photo" yes. But the primary reason to keep backups is for the "oops, my computer is fried" usecase. If your backups are on the same disk, in the same chassis or behind the same psu, they're not much good.

Bet on it that Apple will make it totally seamless to backup to a hdd connected to an airport extreme or other router or to a .mac harddisk. Personally, I'll go for the latter and keep (at least my documents) safe in case of hardware failure, fire and theft.

If you are not concerned with that level of security, put a second partition on your harddisk and back up to that partition. It's possible.
post #53 of 57
Did anyone here actually use Leopard before posting a lot of bull..it?

Time Machine DOES allow Backups on the internal/system-drive, as long as you have a dedicated partition for it.

So if you want to do something as stupid and dumb as backing up to the same drive, Apple gives you the option after promting you with a little info-sheet.
post #54 of 57
Backing up on the same drive has Apple for *years*: cmd-D
post #55 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielsmi View Post

they're not the same thing. time machine is more like previous versions in vista aka volume shadow copy in server 2003. but the big difference is previous version doesn't require external storage. Time machine is like a combo of previous version and windows home server.

Great! However, I don't care if it's a Backup Wizard, System Restore, Driver Rollback or Volume Shadow Copy - it's all just the backend technology. Time Machine is new because of the UI, not the technology behind it. Obviously I didn't make this clear enough with my silly picture. Oh well, I'll try harder next time

Quote:
I still don't see how it's nonsense cause Windows has had free backup software included in the OS for years and it isn't till 7 years later that OS X is finally following suit with something it should've had in the beginning and you still have to buy external storage which isn't included with a new mac to utilize it.

Eh? 7 years without backup software built into the OS? Disk Utility has had the ability to backup and restore disk volumes since at least 10.3, which was released 4 years ago.
post #56 of 57
Obviously you want to back up to an external drive. Just like life is a terminal disease, there are 2 types of people, the ones who have had hard drives fail on them and the ones that will.

I think there is a very valid argument to have a System restore option for the OS similar to the functionality of the Windows option (if it works as it sounds like it's suppose to).

I've never used the system restore on a windows box as I didn't like stuffing my already overflowing drives and I've always backed up to and external drive, reformatting and reinstall Windows on regular bases.

That being said OS X has had it's share of not so polished OS releases. If your system goes wonky after an update it would be cool for the average shmo to effectively click an undo button and go back to the stable state. I've reloaded my OS X systems from scratch more then I'd like to over the years.

as well as external backup, it would be cool to have a simple option for systems that go funky with an option to go back to the last stable state as well as a quiver of repair / maintenance scripts (without having to go spelunking into single user mode).

Even better would have Updates that would never funk up your system and hard drives wouldn't fail.

All my life, I always wanted to be somebody. Now I see that I should have been more specific.
- Lily Tomlin
Reply

All my life, I always wanted to be somebody. Now I see that I should have been more specific.
- Lily Tomlin
Reply
post #57 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielsmi View Post

time machine is more like previous versions in vista aka volume shadow copy in server 2003.

WRONG Shadow copy is a piece of sh*t. If you have shadow copies for the past week, and you restore a shadow copy from the beginning of the week, all the rest that were taken after are wiped out. Plus, you can't see anything until after doing a restore. Utter crap, Microsoft style. Furthermore, I would LOVE to know how many joe users know how to properly implement shadow copying.

Quote:
Where with WHS it backups up your computer ...

I just want to get this straight - first you bitch that Leopard users need to buy an external hardrive to use Time Machine - and now you are bragging about the fact that Windows users need to buy ANOTHER F*CKING COMPUTER for their backups? LOL!! By the way - WHS is based on server 2003, not Vista - so it's already obsolete. Nice.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Mac OS X
AppleInsider › Forums › Software › Mac OS X › Apple seeds new Leopard build via Software Update