or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPhone › Apple inks exclusive iPhone deals in UK, France & Germany - report
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Apple inks exclusive iPhone deals in UK, France & Germany - report - Page 3

post #81 of 106
Quote:
Just because you do not have more than one friend does mean everyone else does not

What??? Does this mean I have more than one friend or that eveyone else only has one friend?

Quote:
SMS and MMS greatly outnumber voice calls

People would rather type a whole conversation on a tiny keyboard than just call and talk. That just seems stupid.

Quote:
email is not usefull for sending photographs to other peoples phones

Only because the mobile providers locked out email clients in favor of SMS.

Quote:
i have got no idea why they have not gone to market with these features, it makes no sense whatsoever and makes me wonder (not for the first time) whether Apple really do know what they are doing or whether they just bumble along and get lucky now and again?

This was all said about the iPod and how Apple had messed up for this or that reason. Not to say that Apple is 100% perfect. They do slip.

I think its clear they have a plan we just don't know what it is. Just because things are done a certain way does not mean that is the best way or the only way. Apple has made a habit of finding a different way and executing better than anyone else.
post #82 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by murphyweb View Post

give me a break, email is not usefull for sending photographs to other peoples phones.

Works on an iPhone.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

Reply

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

Reply
post #83 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by murphyweb View Post

Maybe you are right, but i have got no idea why they have not gone to market with these features, it makes no sense whatsoever and makes me wonder (not for the first time) whether Apple really do know what they are doing or whether they just bumble along and get lucky now and again?

Steve Jobs made a comment about the new wireless keyboard and said something along the lines of "our customers did not want a full sized wireless keyboard" and also mentioned that if you do want a full size wireless keyboard you can buy one from another manufacturer. I was never asked what size wireless keyboard i wanted, the fact i bought 2 of the last wireless keyboards should tell you i like them full sized and i am sure i was no the only one who bought them.

The point is that Steve Jobs claims his customers never wanted one but the forums are full of Apple customers who did want one, you have really got to ask where Apples market intelligence comes from?? do they do any?

Apple, like other manufacturers, makes mistakes. I'm no apologist for them. Here's some posts on the "xMac" that shows that:

http://forums.appleinsider.com/showp...7&postcount=58

http://forums.appleinsider.com/showp...9&postcount=59

http://forums.appleinsider.com/showp...9&postcount=60

But, I do believe that Apple does do research, and that likely it has shown that of the people targeted by Apple for this phone, few cared enough to be dissuaded from purchasing it because of the lack of these features.

If that's true, then sales will continue to be very good even without them.

But, I would like to see Apple add them anyway.

The lack of a battery, doesn't bother me though. I know of only one person who has ever bought another battery because they one that came with the phone failed.
post #84 of 106
You guys clearly do not have a clue (Edit: not you melgross) and should not be comenting on this! It may be different in the US but in Europe basic phones have had POP3 email clients for years, i had a sony 6 years ago that had an email client. People just do not use email on their phone for communicating with other phones when there are far better alternatives like SMS and MMS available.

I am not gonna repeat myself but if you have an iphone and have friend that dont, there is going to be 2 things have hapen:

1 - you stop recieving the pictures that get sent around to everyone from friends becasue you do not have MMS and your friends cannot be arsed setting up email on their phone just for you.

2 - you cannot send photographs to your friends phones anymore.

MMS is cheap, you can send a low res photograph (perfect for viewing on a small screen) in seconds to anyones phone. If you email a photo it goes full resolution and if someone else has email set up on their phone (or they have an iphone) they will be paying bandwidth costs for dowloading your huge email attachemnt.

How anybody can even think that email is better for this application is beyond me.
post #85 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by murphyweb View Post

You guys clearly do not have a clue and should not be comenting on this! It may be different in the US but in Europe basic phones have had POP3 email clients for years, i had a sony 6 years ago that had an email client. People just do not use email on their phone for communicating with other phones when there are far better alternatives like SMS and MMS available.

I am not gonna repeat myself but if you have an iphone and have friend that dont, there is going to be 2 things have hapen:

1 - you stop recieving the pictures that get sent around to everyone from friends becasue you do not have MMS and your friends cannot be arsed setting up email on their phone just for you.

2 - you cannot send photographs to your friends phones anymore.

MMS is cheap, you can send a low res photograph (perfect for viewing on a small screen) in seconds to anyones phone. If you email a photo it goes full resolution and if someone else has email set up on their phone (or they have an iphone) they will be paying bandwidth costs for dowloading your huge email attachemnt.

How anybody can even think that email is better for this application is beyond me.

Perhaps it is you who do not have a clue, and should not be commenting.

Your personal opinion is fine, but if you can't show that the phones sales are being impacted because if your arguments, then you can't show that they matter.
post #86 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

People would rather type a whole conversation on a tiny keyboard than just call and talk. That just seems stupid.

And there we are, it may seem stupid to you and that is fair enough, but that is how people use their phones in Europe. My worry is that it also seems stupid to Apple and that is not good.
post #87 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Perhaps it is you who do not have a clue, and should not be commenting.

Your personal opinion is fine, but if you can't show that the phones sales are being impacted because if your arguments, then you can't show that they matter.


So maybe melgross you should have read my edit, i was not replying to you but your message appeard above me while writing.

I have worked in the communications industry for 15 years and in the late 90's spent time working with the UK's mobile networks on infrastructure projects. I cannot of course show that sales are being affected until they actually start selling them in Europe, we will see then.

But as someone who is a huge gadget freak and spends far too much money on technology and computers and someone who buys Apple computers, AppleTV, iPods etc.. I would not by an iPhone, i really would not, i cannot see what advantages it would give me over my existing mobile phones. That is not good really becasue i should have been at the front of the queue.
post #88 of 106
Quote:
You guys clearly do not have a clue and should not be comenting on this!

I'm not saying I know what Apple is doing is absolutely going to work. But I am saying there is no way you can know for sure that it won't.

Quote:
basic phones have had POP3 email clients for years

Perhaps the email clients were really bad. Look at the Black Berry email is one of the major reasons why it is so popular.
post #89 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by murphyweb View Post

So maybe melgross you should have read my edit, i was not replying to you but your message appeard above me while writing.

I have worked in the communications industry for 15 years and in the late 90's spent time working with the UK's mobile networks on infrastructure projects. I cannot of course show that sales are being affected until they actually start selling them in Europe, we will see then.

But as someone who is a huge gadget freak and spends far too much money on technology and computers and someone who buys Apple computers, AppleTV, iPods etc.. I would not by an iPhone, i really would not, i cannot see what advantages it would give me over my existing mobile phones. That is not good really becasue i should have been at the front of the queue.

"You guys" implied more than one. But, ok.

I've also been in the technology sector for most of my life, and am a gadget freak as well, and I also don't have an iPhone (or iPod) - yet.

When features I need (want!) are out, I will then get one. My wife wants one now, but I won't switch all three of us yet. right now, I'm happy with my Treo 700p on Sprint.

I know very few people who use MMS or SMS. That's the truth. My daughter and her friends, a group you would think would use it a lot, rarely do.

People change their habits over time. There is nothing sacred about any of this. Over time, it too will change.

Possibly Apple has an even better idea. I don't know.

But, despite your frustration, I still think we should wait before becoming unglued over it.
post #90 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

I'm not saying I know what Apple is doing is absolutely going to work. But I am saying there is no way you can know for sure that it won't.



Perhaps the email clients were really bad. Look at the Black Berry email is one of the major reasons why it is so popular.


No, an email client is an email client really. The reason why the BlackBerry is so popluar (and i have one) is that it is push email that links directly with a corporate exchange server and is very secure. BlackBerrys are only as popular as they are becasue most sold are sold to businesses, not to consumers.
post #91 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

"You guys" implied more than one. But, ok.

I've also been in the technology sector for most of my life, and am a gadget freak as well, and I also don't have an iPhone (or iPod) - yet.

When features I need (want!) are out, I will then get one. My wife wants one now, but I won't switch all three of us yet. right now, I'm happy with my Treo 700p on Sprint.

I know very few people who use MMS or SMS. That's the truth. My daughter and her friends, a group you would think would use it a lot, rarely do.

People change their habits over time. There is nothing sacred about any of this. Over time, it too will change.

Possibly Apple has an even better idea. I don't know.

But, despite your frustration, I still think we should wait before becoming unglued over it.

I know, i just love stirring the Applebators, i have never known a company in all my life that has fans of their products like Apple does, you cannot have a debate with some of these people and i find it so funny sometimes i cannot help myself. melgross, not you though, you are at least reasoned in your arguments.
post #92 of 106
Quote:
In return, the Cupertino-based electronics maker has reportedly succeeded in committing the phone operators to fork over 10 percent of the revenues made from calls and data transfers by customers using iPhones. [...]

Among the tactics used by Apple to lure the mobile operators, according to the Times, was the prospect of a financially risk-free business -- as it will not allow for common subsidies on the sale of handsets.


Apple is the most consumer unfriendly company I know. Has anyone checked with European Antitrust authorities the legality of tied sales (iPhone communication services chosen by the iPhone maker, not the iPhone buyer who should own the iPhone and have the right to choose the CHEAPEST cell phone service)?

Apple is struggling to generate enough profits to pay for the illegal and backdated $650 million bonus of CEO Steve Jobs in 2006. By ripping off consumers, Apple is damaging its image and future growth.

Steve Jobs and the whole Board of puppet directors must go as they are damaging Apple.

post #93 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by ouragan View Post

Apple is struggling to generate enough profits to pay for the illegal and backdated $650 million bonus of CEO Steve Jobs in 2006. By ripping off consumers, Apple is damaging its image and future growth.

Steve Jobs and the whole Board of puppet directors must go as they are damaging Apple.

WTH are you talking about? How can they be struggling to cover $650M if they NET (as in, after all expenses are paid) three times that amount in a single quarter? When they have $10B+ in liquid assets?

Maybe you should take a breather and learn how to troll better. Or maybe learn how to put facts into perspective rather than project a "sky is falling" mentality when it's simply not the case. Was Apple wrong to misrepresent options? Certainly. Is it going to even hurt them? A little. Is the company struggling? Absolutely not.

The options backdating wasn't even illegal, the problem was covering it up and not reporting it properly on the appropriate filings.
post #94 of 106
Quote:
I know, i just love stirring the Applebators, i have never known a company in all my life that has fans of their products like Apple does, you cannot have a debate with some of these people and i find it so funny sometimes i cannot help myself. melgross, not you though, you are at least reasoned in your arguments.

I think fair and balanced critcism of Apple is fine. And there certainly is room to criticise. But how can you really be so sure the iPhone will not work in Europe?
post #95 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by murphyweb View Post

As for MMS/email give me a break, email is not usefull for sending photographs to other peoples phones.

When cell phones started getting cameras MMS was created to allow you to send your pictures to other phones. But the technology is very limited, and even though it was created well after email it is obsolescing as more and more phones get email capabilities.

It's unfortunate that email capable phones don't offer ease of use, or give email as option after taking a snapshot, but is that Apple's fault? Email is much more robust and offers a great deal more options than MMS.

This isn't the first the time Apple has jumped to a tech (or abandoned on) in favor of forward progression. Remember the lack of 3.5" floppy drive in favor of a CD-drive or the lack of serial and parallel ports in favor of USB.

I'd like to see other manufacturer's OSs make sending pictures via email just as easy as it is with MMS especially now phones are getting data plans at low prices and fast data speeds. MMS is limited and outdated while email is robust and still has a long life ahead of it. The EU has the US beat on 3G coverage (though it is more densely populated) but the use of MMS is like holding onto 3.5" floppy in the 21st-century. Why limit yourself?
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
post #96 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by murphyweb View Post

MMS is cheap, you can send a low res photograph (perfect for viewing on a small screen) in seconds to anyones phone. If you email a photo it goes full resolution and if someone else has email set up on their phone (or they have an iphone) they will be paying bandwidth costs for dowloading your huge email attachemnt.

How anybody can even think that email is better for this application is beyond me.

Maybe that is why it wasn't included. As you say, it's a low res picture. How would that look on the iPhone's large display? Pretty crappy, I suppose, making the inclusion of MMS pretty pointless. You also mention costs. AT&T gives you limited SMS messages and then charges a premium after that. How much would MMS be? Surely more expensive than the unlimited data plan that you are already receiving with your iPhone.

Should we be wishing that the iPhone succumb to this temporary tech used tot fill a void between cellphones with cameras and phone OSs that don't have email capabilities or should be we be wanting other phones to have better UIs and offer full capabilities too? I'm voting for the latter.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
post #97 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by ouragan View Post

Apple is the most consumer unfriendly company I know. Has anyone checked with European Antitrust authorities the legality of tied sales (iPhone communication services chosen by the iPhone maker, not the iPhone buyer who should own the iPhone and have the right to choose the CHEAPEST cell phone service)?

Apple is struggling to generate enough profits to pay for the illegal and backdated $650 million bonus of CEO Steve Jobs in 2006. By ripping off consumers, Apple is damaging its image and future growth.

Steve Jobs and the whole Board of puppet directors must go as they are damaging Apple.


That was a pretty weird post. Get some facts straight. Europe is no schoolboy continent. Governments are constantly violating The laws over there.

Apple isn't paying anything off for Jobs.

Grow up.
post #98 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Maybe that is why it wasn't included. As you say, it's a low res picture. How would that look on the iPhone's large display? Pretty crappy, I suppose, making the inclusion of MMS pretty pointless. You also mention costs. AT&T gives you limited SMS messages and then charges a premium after that. How much would MMS be? Surely more expensive than the unlimited data plan that you are already receiving with your iPhone.

Should we be wishing that the iPhone succumb to this temporary tech used tot fill a void between cellphones with cameras and phone OSs that don't have email capabilities or should be we be wanting other phones to have better UIs and offer full capabilities too? I'm voting for the latter.

Quote:
As you say, it's a low res picture. How would that look on the iPhone's large display? Pretty crappy, I suppose,


????? You fail to see the point, we are talking about sending the picture to someone elses phone , not your own iPhone!! One of the beauties of MMS is that no matter how big the resolution of the photograph you have taken is, and no matter how big and lovely it looks on a big screen, when you press send it will automatically reduce the size of the picture to a smal enough file to quickly send and yet still display well on a small screen and your original file is not affected - How cool is that? Not bad for a "temporary tech".


Okay, i will speak slowly so you understand, but this is the last time i repeat myself!

We are talking about EUROPE, you are in the US, things may be different there but i have had plenty of phones over the last 6 years that have a fully functional email client installed, and yes have the option to email photographs. I myself used email on a couple of phones as i found it good to email photographs to myself or to other people, and yes they could be full resolution photo's.

BUT, when sending a photograph i want a friend to see now who may have a Nokia XXXX and is on GPRS and a very high chance that they never bothered setting up their email client i would send it by MMS and so would a large amount of phones users in the UK. You keep thinking about yourself and your iphone with big screen etc.. but you dont seem to think for a minute about the people you are saying you will email high res pictures to. The chances are they have not got email set up and even if they did they will be paying the bandwidth costs for the large files you keep sending them, when all they want is a small file optimised for a small screen. The only way your system will work if all your friends have iphones.

It is worth noting that many phones support BOTH technologies and that Market forces dictated (the only true way to determine whether a technology is good or not) that people preferred to use the more simpler MMS method.

Look, we are both entitled to our opinion but i just feel that i have made some very valid points and you just seem to ignore them and carry on regardless, you have not addressed the massive, huge and deal-breaking issue that is once you get an iphone you are effectively cutting yourself out of the loop from sending and receiving pictures to and from friends mobile phones and it is amazing that you cannot admit that Apple really should of included support for MMS.
post #99 of 106
Where have you been all this time murph haha

Its nice to see that im not the only one here who isnt happy with these omissions. I dont know things like MMS and Bluetooth profiles or video capture arnt bigger in America.

Im sure that when it does arrive in Europe it should feature at least MMS and Bluetooth proper.
post #100 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by murphyweb View Post

Look, we are both entitled to our opinion but i just feel that i have made some very valid points and you just seem to ignore them and carry on regardless, you have not addressed the massive, huge and deal-breaking issue that is once you get an iphone you are effectively cutting yourself out of the loop from sending and receiving pictures to and from friends mobile phones and it is amazing that you cannot admit that Apple really should of included support for MMS.

1) I'm not in the US.
2) I've never found MMS to be worthwhile.
3) I was giving a possible reason why Apple chose not to include it. The same way it pulled away from floppy drives and other common, well-used technology in favor of effectively forcing better technology to take hold.

You may love sending low-res pics to grandma, but I don't.

I still hold firm that it's better for manufacturers to include easy to access and use email client into phones with data capabilities (nearly all phones now) rather than holdfast to the vast limitations of MMS.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
post #101 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by murphyweb View Post

And there we are, it may seem stupid to you and that is fair enough, but that is how people use their phones in Europe. My worry is that it also seems stupid to Apple and that is not good.

Sums it up quite nicely. I completely agree with you that a more robust SMS and MMS, (not so sure about IM to be honest), will absolutely be required by European consumers.
Some just dont get it here in the US; SMS is so much more widely used that voice calling in Europe, and that will remain the case for some time.

It is for that reason that I expect software updates from Apple to address this in the coming months. If it doesn't I myself will look at iPhone competitors, although I fear none offer the fabulous browsing experience I enjoy on the iPhone.
post #102 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

1)
I still hold firm that it's better for manufacturers to include easy to access and use email client into phones with data capabilities (nearly all phones now) rather than holdfast to the vast limitations of MMS.

Lovely, but other manufacturers haven't done that have they, and until they do, Apple should provide the purchasers of their iPhone the means to reach their mates with well tried, easy to use, widely adopted (everey other phone has them). The vast majority of phones sold today do not have support for email.

I was an idiot; I purchased the iPhone without realizing its SMS limitations, the inability to reach multiple recipients with one message, the lack of copy/paste, and I regret it. I thought Apple would have fixed it by now (expecially after an Apple store rep in an aside agreed that it must have been an oversight and it would surely be fixed soon. But soon, hopefully.
post #103 of 106
I wouldnt hold your breath. The updates will occur over the course of the next 24 months so....
post #104 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riptide View Post

Lovely, but other manufacturers haven't done that have they, and until they do, Apple should provide the purchasers of their iPhone the means to reach their mates with well tried, easy to use, widely adopted (everey other phone has them). The vast majority of phones sold today do not have support for email.

Apple doesn[t work that way. They see a tech obsolescing and totally ignore it. There are many examples, though many of them are hardware based. The one exception is EDGE, but in Apple's defense EDGE is still still very strong in the US where HSDPA is not.

Hopefully AT&T wills step up it's game in the next year with HSDPA coverage and other manufacturers will start to offer email as easy as one can access SMS. One can dream...
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
post #105 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

The one exception is EDGE, but in Apple's defense EDGE is still still very strong in the US where HSDPA is not.

That, and Apple probably looked at their prototype 3G phone in comparison to their prototype 2G phone - and found that the 2G had longer battery life and was considerably smaller...
post #106 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Apple doesn[t work that way. They see a tech obsolescing and totally ignore it. There are many examples, though many of them are hardware based. The one exception is EDGE, but in Apple's defense EDGE is still still very strong in the US where HSDPA is not.

Hopefully AT&T wills step up it's game in the next year with HSDPA coverage and other manufacturers will start to offer email as easy as one can access SMS. One can dream...

I'm not so sure about the lack of 3G services. Sprints is pretty much everywhere. I assume that Verisons is as well. ATT is the one lagging here.

I've never had a problem using 3G with my Treo 700p anywhere I've gone in the US.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: iPhone
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPhone › Apple inks exclusive iPhone deals in UK, France & Germany - report