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What neocons don't tell you - Page 4

post #121 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammi jo View Post

Facts are facts. No tinfoil required. A confession is as bad as it gets, inadvertent as it was.

Strange that the likes of SDW cannot face, and refuse to acknowledge reality when it doesn't conform to their mainstream-derived blinkered world. There is the mechanism by which some of the world's worst deeds go unpunished and uninvestigated.

SDW, if someone was caught videotaping the Oklahoma City bombings as they happened, or conducting an interview with the Columbine School shooters in which they described their plans, for example, would the FBI/US Government look the other way? Not one chance in a quadrillion years, and you damned well know it.

But here we have Israelis, caught flatfooted in complicity re. the 9/11 attacks, at the very least... and you would prefer to ignore the FACT that these people knew beforehand, and then just brush it off. Perhaps your philosophy is, because the Jewish people suffered so much during the Holocaust and have ridden high on worldwide public sympathy in the decades following WW2, you feel that Israel is justified in getting away with whatever the fuck it can, with impunity, regardless of whether their intelligence agency had a part to play (or more) in attacks on our own nation.

Shame on you SDW. There are two words for people with your attitude, or similar:
a) Appeaser, and (b) Traitor.

And there is one term for you: Insane. You actually believe the Israelis knew about 9/11 before hand or were complicit in the attacks themselves. No amount of linking nor explanation can dig you out of that whole.
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post #122 of 209
Oh, come on SDW... what can you possibly know. You live in West Chester. You cannot possibly know what is happening in the world.
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post #123 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammi jo View Post

Perhaps your philosophy is, because the Jewish people suffered so much during the Holocaust and have ridden high on worldwide public sympathy in the decades following WW2...

Just had to intervene to point out how skewed your history is. Jews were persecuted long before the Holocaust.

Any impartial observer will note that the Jewish people have endured millenia of persecution, being expelled outright at various times from many European countries and hated for no reason in large parts of the planet.

That they are a bit overzealous at times in trying to protect themselves is understandable.

And I don't see any "worldwide public sympathy" for them today, though there darn well should be.
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #124 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammi jo View Post

Those "fucking Zionists" as you (jokingly?) refer to how you define anyone who levels even the slightest criticism of Israel... seem to be able to do anything in the world with impunity. To equate the Zionist fringe with ordinary Jews is like associating extreme Islamist Caliphates with Mr. ordinary Mohammed down the street ....

And Mossad?? a fat fucking lot of no-good they were on 9/11.

Can you interpret this? "We were here to document the event". Guilty, guilty, fucking 100% guilty. At the very least, accessory before and after the fact. No dispute..;. unless someone can prove conclusively that the above footage is a fake, or some sick joke.

Here they are, 5 Mossad guys, admitting prior knowledge of 9/11, on an Israeli TV talk show, and even being there to film the attack, knowing full well that the US government, being loaded with NeoCons, will never take action against either them, or their employer, Osama bin Lad... oops... the Israeli government, and the US/UK/western mainstream media will toe that line, by default.

Call me an anti-Semite, if namecalling is your thing. Lets see a rebuttal.

I guess its coming up to "that time of year again".

What's the matter sammi_jo? Still upset over The History Channel's documentary The 9/11 Conspiracies: Fact or Fiction? Something that the AJ, et. al. crowd called a "hit piece."

I'm sure you've watched it, haven't you? If not it's basically, "The Experts versus the Hatterz!"

I'd suggest you stop pleasuring yourself, and sit down and watch it. And when you get to The Pentagon segment, you might notice the lead structural engineer who lead that part of the investigation, who's name escapes me at the moment , which is odd, seeing as I just spoke to that person last week (as we crossed paths in the hallway) about the very same subject matter!

I bet you hatters are just itching to tear a new one in the NIST WT7 report due out by the end of this year?

By then Loose Change will be in it's 666th edition!

You can now go back to pleasuring yourself.
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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post #125 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

And there is one term for you: Insane. You actually believe the Israelis knew about 9/11 before hand or were complicit in the attacks themselves. No amount of linking nor explanation can dig you out of that whole.

I am only repeating what the agent on the Israeli talk shows claimed, verbatim. He said "We were there to document the attacks". These guys had video equipment set up, filming the attacks. They worked for a front company, Urban Moving Systems. They were caught with $thousands in cash, maps with the World Trade Center circled in pen, and explosives sniffing dogs reportedly went "beserk". A US government official later claimed on the Carl Cameron show (Fox News) that "Evidence linking these Israelis to 9/11 is classified. I cannot tell you about evidence that has been gathered. It's classified information."

So, according to the relevant US authorities, they DO possess "evidence" linking these people to the attacks, but couldn't comment due to security classification. In other words, there *IS* evidence, held by the US Gov't, but we the are not permitted to see it.
And, according to the Israeli agent, he was there with othersd to "document the event". Just those two facts are incriminating enough for anyone with some degree of normal comprehension ability to grasp, and realize that something is "very unkosher".

SDW2001: You can call me insane, or a tinfoil hatter till the cows come home. I don't care. I don't give a shit. Namecalling is thje last resort to those without an agrument, and isn't going to change history.

If it quacks like a duck, looks like a duck, and waddles like a duck.. then according to SDW, the chances are it's a.... motorcycle? a box of chocolates? ... ...
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #126 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammi jo View Post

I am only repeating what the agent on the Israeli talk shows claimed, verbatim. He said "We were there to document the attacks". These guys had video equipment set up, filming the attacks. They worked for a front company, Urban Moving Systems. They were caught with $thousands in cash, maps with the World Trade Center circled in pen, and explosives sniffing dogs reportedly went "beserk". A US government official later claimed on the Carl Cameron show (Fox News) that "Evidence linking these Israelis to 9/11 is classified. I cannot tell you about evidence that has been gathered. It's classified information."

So, according to the relevant US authorities, they DO possess "evidence" linking these people to the attacks, but couldn't comment due to security classification. In other words, there *IS* evidence, held by the US Gov't, but we the are not permitted to see it.
And, according to the Israeli agent, he was there with othersd to "document the event". Just those two facts are incriminating enough for anyone with some degree of normal comprehension ability to grasp, and realize that something is "very unkosher".

SDW2001: You can call me insane, or a tinfoil hatter till the cows come home. I don't care. I don't give a shit. Namecalling is thje last resort to those without an agrument, and isn't going to change history.

If it quacks like a duck, looks like a duck, and waddles like a duck.. then according to SDW, the chances are it's a.... motorcycle? a box of chocolates? ... ...

The goobermint did it, the goobermint did it, ... , the goobermint has sekryts, the goobermint has sekryts, ... , and we hatterz no all about those sekryts, we hatterz no all about those sekryts, ...
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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post #127 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

The goobermint did it, the goobermint did it, ... , the goobermint has sekryts, the goobermint has sekrysa, ... , and we hatterz no all about those sekryts, we hatterz no all about those sekryts, ...

Are you incapable of forming a coherent sentence? By that kind of reply, you are doing your side little credit.

Anyway, I did watch the History Channel's piece. Both repeats, as it happens.
It was a very poorly constructed strawman effort, and most viewers, according to the polls, saw through it very quickly. I guess you didn't, but that would be a bit much to expect.
Do you honestly believe that the History Channel are capable of doing a fair presentation of that event? Hearst Publishing the epitome of yellow journalism, were featured self proclaimed "experts" on the show as the most prominent debunkers, shilling for their corporate bosses in a brazen display of cronyism. The History Channel is part of the A&E Television Network which is jointly owned by The Walt Disney Company (37.5%), The Hearst Corporation (37.5%), and NBC Universal (25%). The owners of Popular Mechanics are also the joint owners of the History Channel.

Here we had the equivalent of the Gambino Famly being investigated by the Mafia... kinda like the 9/11 "Commission".

They didnt even do their research well enough to prevent some glaring goofs, a hilarious one being how at one point they cited the "numerous phone calls from the planes" to make a point.. .. and then contradicted themselves when stating that the FBI revealed that the only phone calls actually came from Flight 93.

Have you ever edited videotape? I do it all the time, in conjunction with my work, and in my leisure time as well. Anyone can be made to look like a complete idiot with just a few wellplaced cuts. It is so easy. HAVE A LOOK! (Although in that example... its a case of "never a truer word was spoken in jest".

There's part of your "History" Channel methodology for you.

Have you ever seen the skeptics take on the weasels/officials in a real, live, unedited show, without screened questions, in a no-holds-barred debate about 9/11? Answer: No, and you probably won't, not in the US anyway. It has never happened because the weasel-and-coward brigade wouldnt dare.
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #128 of 209
Sammi:

Quote:
SDW2001: You can call me insane, or a tinfoil hatter till the cows come home. I don't care. I don't give a shit. Namecalling is thje last resort to those without an agrument, and isn't going to change history.

Yeah, I'm the one who's desperate here sammi. I'm the one that needs to argue for hours on end that the Israeli's didn't plan or have advance warning of 9/11. Good lord. Take some sort of pill.
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post #129 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammi jo View Post

Are you incapable of forming a coherent sentence? By that kind of reply, you are doing your side little credit.

Anyway, I did watch the History Channel's piece. Both repeats, as it happens.
It was a very poorly constructed strawman effort, and most viewers, according to the polls, saw through it very quickly. I guess you didn't, but that would be a bit much to expect.
Do you honestly believe that the History Channel are capable of doing a fair presentation of that event? Hearst Publishing the epitome of yellow journalism, were featured self proclaimed "experts" on the show as the most prominent debunkers, shilling for their corporate bosses in a brazen display of cronyism. The History Channel is part of the A&E Television Network which is jointly owned by The Walt Disney Company (37.5%), The Hearst Corporation (37.5%), and NBC Universal (25%). The owners of Popular Mechanics are also the joint owners of the History Channel.

Here we had the equivalent of the Gambino Famly being investigated by the Mafia... kinda like the 9/11 "Commission".

They didnt even do their research well enough to prevent some glaring goofs, a hilarious one being how at one point they cited the "numerous phone calls from the planes" to make a point.. .. and then contradicted themselves when stating that the FBI revealed that the only phone calls actually came from Flight 93.

Have you ever edited videotape? I do it all the time, in conjunction with my work, and in my leisure time as well. Anyone can be made to look like a complete idiot with just a few wellplaced cuts. It is so easy. HAVE A LOOK! (Although in that example... its a case of "never a truer word was spoken in jest".

There's part of your "History" Channel methodology for you.

Have you ever seen the skeptics take on the weasels/officials in a real, live, unedited show, without screened questions, in a no-holds-barred debate about 9/11? Answer: No, and you probably won't, not in the US anyway. It has never happened because the weasel-and-coward brigade wouldnt dare.

Dr. Paul F. Mlakar

Quote:
DR. Paul F. Mlakar was recently selected to the position of Senior Research Scientist for Weapons Effects and Structural Dynamics at the U.S. Army Engineer Research and Development Center (ERDC) in Vicksburg, Miss.

In this position, Mlakar is responsible for planning, conducting and executing basic and applied research, as well as the advanced development of technologies for the Army's survivability and protective structures mission. Research efforts include computational structural mechanics relating to the effects of conventional and terrorist weapons on conventional and hardened structures; material modeling for construction and geologic materials relating to projectile penetration, ground shock, and response of structures; and airblast, ground shock, and fragmentation as they relate to detonation and functional kill.

Mlakar will supply the focus, technical leadership and quality control for ERDC research efforts. He will also serve as the primary contact with senior technical leadership in the Corps of Engineers, the U.S. Army Engineer School, the Defense Threat Reduction Agency, the National Academy of Science, the Department of Defense, other federal agencies, academia, and the private sector.

Prior to his current assignment, Mlakar was the Technical Director for Airfields, Pavements and Sustainment Engineering in the ERDC Geotechnical and Structures Laboratory. He has also served as chief of the Concrete and Materials Division. From 1984 to 1995, he founded and guided the structures division of JAYCOR as its vice president, providing research and consultation on structural engineering for government and commercial clients.

Mlakar has served on the American Society of Civil Engineers (ASCE) team that assessed the structural performance of the Murrah Building after the 1995 terrorist bombing and more recently led the ASCE team that studied the structural performance of the Pentagon after the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.

Mlakar graduated from the U.S. Military Academy at West Point in 1966. He earned his master's degree and doctorate in engineering science from Purdue University in 1968 and 1975, respectively. He is a registered professional engineer in the state of Mississippi; a fellow with the American Society of Civil Engineers and past chairman of its Committee on Shock and Vibratory Effects; and a member of the American Concrete Institute and the Society of American Military Engineers.

That's the person I was referring to, you know a subject matter expert (SME), they're called STRUCTURAL ENGINEERS!

sammi_jo you and your ilk are REALLY prenatal with respect to the SME's!

And no, I haven't seen the hatters take on the SME's, since the hatters don't have any SME's, it's obvious who'd win that one, the SME's that have extensive training and experience in such matters, the STRUCTURAL ENGINEERS, etceteras.

As to editing, doesn't matter as long as the factual data and events were presented, and they were thoroughly presented by the SME's, but then you'd have to be a SME to understand the SME's, now wouldn't you? D'oh!
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post #130 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jubelum View Post

Oh yeah... we can ALWAYS trust the Russians to tell the truth. These are KGB-communists we are talking about.

"In our country, the lie has become not just a moral category but a pillar of the State." -- Alexander Solzhenitsyn

I honestly, seriously, not joking, would trust the Russians to tell the truth about Iraq more than George W. Bush and his supporters. And even as an American, I'm not alone in that.

Now what I find ridiculous is this sequence:

1. SDW claims EVERY major intel agency supported Bush's claim that there were WMD in Iraq, including Russia, the UK, France, Germany.

2. I point out that that is a false statement, referencing evidence that Russia and the UK were not in full agreement, according to some reports, and I also implied that Germany and France also were not in agreement.

3. Russia lies and has "motivations".

Wait a minute!?

First SDW says Russia agreed that there were WMD. Then I show Putin's quote. Then SDW says Russia lies. So where the hell did SDW get the idea that Russia was in agreement in the first place? Even if Russia lies, isn't it a lie that Russa thought there were WMD?

I guess to split hairs, there's no way of knowing what Russia thought. Wait a minute... I'll repeat that: There's no way of knowing what Russia thought. Unless you're living in SDW bizarro world. SDW claimed that Russia thought there were WMD's. According to whom? Not Russia.

So SDW somehow magically knows (or knows because Bush said so) that Russia 1: Believed that there were WMD and 2) Lied because they said they didn't believe there were WMD...

I seriously think someone flunked "introduction to logic".

Admit it, SDW: You were wrong, misinformed or lying when you said Russian intelligence believed there were WMD.

And no comment on MI6?
post #131 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Whatever tonton. There's no talking to you. You'll just keep finding cherry picked quotes that don't tell the whole story, just like the Putin quote. You'll continue to ignore the motivations behind such statements by Russia, France et al. These are countries that had significant business dealing with Iraq. In addition, Russia certainly did not want the US to expand its presence in the region and pick off one of Russia's allies. You're completely ignoring the geopolitical component of any statements you find. I find that just a tad bit ironic in light of the fact that everything Bush does is motivated my politics according to you. Moreover, you utterly ignore Israel, which has one of the most advanced intelligence operations the planet. I suppose they don't count, those fucking Zionists.

To simplify...

Whatever the "motivations" for Russia to say there were no WMD, Russia said there were no WMD. And you claimed they believed there were WMD. I guess you just know what everyone is thinking all the time.

And Bush had no "motivations" to lie? Mmmmmkay...
post #132 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jubelum View Post

Can we add to those ranks those folks who want to give Prez Tom, Hugo, and the like a place at the table? And also those who like trashing to troops in the field? Appeasers? Traitors? *coughharryreidcough*

Putting soldiers in unnecessary, unproductive danger is far more traitorous than stating that the strategy is not working and trying to avoid further military deaths by changing the strategy.
post #133 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Putting soldiers in unnecessary, unproductive danger is far more traitorous than stating that the strategy is not working and trying to avoid further military deaths by changing the strategy.

Um... there is an entire nation in the balance and civilians in the US and in Iraq that *might* be necessary in the whole risk-death calculation... but whatever.
"Stand Up for Chuck"
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"Stand Up for Chuck"
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post #134 of 209
Franksergeant and SDW:

Sammi Jo has shown a link where ISRAELI tv shows people admitting they had prior knowledge.

We knew this already because the Dancing Israelis were caught and arrested (and pretty soon released) for filming the burning towers. So really it is a confirmation.

Ok, there are many possible responses and rebuttals but I am wondering why you choose the only one which makes no sense? Is it laziness? Or brainwashing?

An exact equivalence would be:

Person 1: Something called an apple exists

Person 2: no it doesn't

Person 1: here is one look......

Person 2: tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat


I think something must have gone wrong with you guys' software - the 'tinfoil hat' line comes BEFORE someone shows an alleged proof...

I think your programs are stuck on a loop....phone Control and get yourselves wheeled in for servicing...
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #135 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

Just had to intervene to point out how skewed your history is. Jews were persecuted long before the Holocaust.

Very true...the Church had been doing it since the death of Christ.

Somehow, despite JCs death being 'God's plan' the Church still decided to blame the Jews and kill them for millennia...

What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #136 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Franksergeant and SDW:

Sammi Jo has shown a link where ISRAELI tv shows people admitting they had prior knowledge.

We knew this already because the Dancing Israelis were caught and arrested (and pretty soon released) for filming the burning towers. So really it is a confirmation.

Ok, there are many possible responses and rebuttals but I am wondering why you choose the only one which makes no sense? Is it laziness? Or brainwashing?

An exact equivalence would be:

Person 1: Something called an apple exists

Person 2: no it doesn't

Person 1: here is one look......

Person 2: tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat


I think something must have gone wrong with you guys' software - the 'tinfoil hat' line comes BEFORE someone shows an alleged proof...

I think your programs are stuck on a loop....phone Control and get yourselves wheeled in for servicing...

Follow the source, ALWAYS follow the source!

So someone was somewhere at sometime and SAID something at a later date about "prior knowledge."

The burden of proof is for those who had "prior knowledge" to, you know, PROVE IT! Not with words, but with objective evidence! FACTS! DETAILS! Source(s) of this "prior knowledge." Name some NAMES?

Put up or shut up! \

Provide an OBJECTIVE link (in written text) as to the FACTS of this matter, or STFU!
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post #137 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

Follow the source, ALWAYS follow the source!

So someone was somewhere at sometime and SAID something at a later date about "prior knowledge."

The burden of proof is for those who had "prior knowledge" to, you know, PROVE IT! Not with words, but with OBJECTIVE EVIDENCE! FACTS! DETAILS! SOURCE(S) of this "prior knowledge." Name some NAMES?

PUT UP OR SHUT UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! \

I'd think all that would be required to refute it is one source of someone somewhere saying there was no prior knowledge. If that's all the evidence that's needed to prove something, that is.
post #138 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

Follow the source, ALWAYS follow the source!

So someone was somewhere at sometime and SAID something at a later date about "prior knowledge."

The burden of proof is for those who had "prior knowledge" to, you know, PROVE IT! Not with words, but with OBJECTIVE EVIDENCE! FACTS! DETAILS! SOURCE(S) of this "prior knowledge." Name some NAMES?

PUT UP OR SHUT UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! \

This applies in what may be called 'normal life' - it cannot apply in the area of covert operations.

So, you have a choice.

Either you take the stance that NO covert operations are ever undertaken and kept secret, or, one takes the stance that the Government always 'does right' and all allies of the Government 'never do wrong' and are incapable of it and therefore conclude that no evidence is necessary.

I suspect in yours and SDWs case it is a hybrid transmogrification of the two positions.

In any event, if an agency of any description acts covertly how can one find proof if it has been hidden?

To you this means that nothing has happened and you can scream tin foil hat a lot.

Please - in the name of God - do not ever join a Law Enforcement Agency, I can see it now...

Victim: I've been robbed...

Officer Frank: who by?

Victim: not sure, they had masks on....

Officer Frank: tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #139 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRussell View Post

I'd think all that would be required to refute it is one source of someone somewhere saying there was no prior knowledge. If that's all the evidence that's needed to prove something, that is.

Claims related to Jews and Israel

Nuff said!
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Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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post #140 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

This applies in what may be called 'normal life' - it cannot apply in the area of covert operations.

So, you have a choice.

Either you take the stance that NO covert operations are ever undertaken and kept secret, or, one takes the stance that the Government always 'does right' and all allies of the Government 'never do wrong' and are incapable of it and therefore conclude that no evidence is necessary.

I suspect in yours and SDWs case it is a hybrid transmogrification of the two positions.

In any event, if an agency of any description acts covertly how can one find proof if it has been hidden?

To you this means that nothing has happened and you can scream tin foil hat a lot.

Please - in the name of God - do not ever join a Law Enforcement Agency, I can see it now...

Victim: I've been robbed...

Officer Frank: who by?

Victim: not sure, they had masks on....

Officer Frank: tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat

Claims related to Jews and Israel

Nuff said!
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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post #141 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

Claims related to Jews and Israel

Nuff said!

Dancing Israelis

Whooping with joy

Quote:
Former Israeli Prime Minister was asked what the attacks would mean for US-Israeli relations. His quick reply was: "It's very good.Well, it's not good, but it will generate immediate sympathy (for Israel)"

Is that a or a ?
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #142 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Dancing Israelis

Whooping with joy



Is that a or a ?

... you're a RACIST!
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Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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post #143 of 209
There's no evidence that there was any foreknowledge.

http://www.911myths.com/html/dancing_israelis.html

And if you think about it, this is... absurd.

"You stupid fool! We would have got away with being part of this conspiracy, perhaps the most complex and secret in the history of the nation state, if only you hadn't forgotten on national television that you weren't supposed to know about it beforehand!"

"DOH. Well, hey, you can talk! Trained by Mossad, one of the world's most sophisticated deception machines, and you had to get us all going with your high-fives and singing in Arabic in a public place immediately after Shimon and Yehuda crashed the planes!"

"Hebrew. I speak Hebrew."

"My bad. We're evil Jews. I forgot."
post #144 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

... you're a RACIST!

Heehehe - always the last (or first) resort......

Pathetic. And all because you could not address the original contention and disprove it with any other means at your disposal.

What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #145 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hassan i Sabbah View Post

There's no evidence that there was any foreknowledge.

http://www.911myths.com/html/dancing_israelis.html

And if you think about it, this is... absurd.

"You stupid fool! We would have got away with being part of this conspiracy, perhaps the most complex and secret in the history of the nation state, if only you had hadn't forgotten you weren't supposed to know about it beforehand on national television!"

"DOH. Well, hey, you can talk! Trained by Mossad, one of the world's most sophisticated deception machines, and you had to get us all going with your high-fives and singing in Arabic in a public place immediately after Shimon and Yehuda crashed the planes!"

"Hebrew. I speak Hebrew."

"My bad. We're evil Jews. I forgot."

This thread is really starting to head into the lunatic fringe of the Mad Hatters!



Actually, I think it's already there!
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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post #146 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Heehehe - always the last (or first) resort......

Pathetic. And all because you could not address the original contention and disprove it with any other means at your disposal.


I already provided a link DISPROVING whatever it is you're trying to PROVE! \

Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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post #147 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

I provided a link DISPROVING whatever it is you're trying to PROVE! \


I'm only trying to prove that you are not using logic but repeating other's debatable contentions. I could post one hundred counter-links to that myself.

But you would shout tin foil hat again and we'd be back to square one.

You're playing with an empty hand....that's all I'm saying.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #148 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

I'm only trying to prove that you are not using logic but repeating other's debatable contentions. I could post one hundred counter-links to that myself.

But you would shout tin foil hat again and we'd be back to square one.

You're playing with an empty hand....that's all I'm saying.

You know what? It's really ironic, that those on the left place conservatives into a black or white (a 2-state 0 or 1 binary world-view).

Then when cornered, as you clearly are, retort/resort to formal logic, which itself is a 2-state mathematical expression (excluding the "I don't know quantum state").

That's where formal logic IS flawed, the real world is all about probabilities, PDF's and CDF's.

Purely deterministic thinking is a path to nowhere, chaos will eventually catch you, we are all doomed!
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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post #149 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

This thread is really starting to head into the lunatic fringe of the Mad Hatters!



Actually, I think it's already there!

Yes well, you haven't exactly proved that you are the master of logical and rational thought so let's keep going awhile.

This is how we can make a logical construction out of this mess you seem intent on creating:

1) If it can be proved that ANYONE had foreknowledge (other than than the perps) - that is to say, if it can be shown that a possible attack was in the public domain then the equation becomes simpler...

Ie it becomes a question of "why did Israel not know" rather than "did Israel know". Actually the same can be said of the US - "why did they not know?"

So the question is: were there warnings?

Answer: yes:

German Police confirm phoned warning

Quote:
German police have confirmed an Iranian man phoned US police from his deportation cell to warn of the planned attack on the World Trade Centre.

The Lower Saxony Justice Ministry has confirmed the man warned of the impending series of terrorist attacks, but had not been believed.

Condoleeza Rice warned Sept 6th

Quote:
Five days before Sept. 11, National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice was warned that a terrorist attack inside the United States was imminent, a former U.S. senator who headed up a blue-ribbon commission on terrorism revealed late Tuesday.

"I've known the national security advisor, Professor Rice, for about 20 some years," former Colorado Sen. Gary Hart told WABC Radio's John Batchelor and Paul Alexander. "She was a supporter of mine in my first presidential campaign as a graduate student in Denver."

After giving a speech on the terrorist threat in Montreal on Sept. 5, Hart said he requested an urgent meeting with Dr. Rice in Washington.

"I said to her, 'You must move more quickly on homeland security. An attack is going to happen.'

"That was Sept. 6, 2001," Hart told WABC, without characterizing Dr. Rice's reaction.

The night before, Hart said, he issued the same warning to an air transportation group in Canada.

State Dept Warning Sept 7th

Quote:
Over the last several months, the U.S. Government has learned that U.S. citizens and interests abroad may be at increased risk of a terrorist action from extremist groups. In addition, we have received unconfirmed information that terrorist actions may be taken against U.S. military facilities and/or establishments frequented by U.S. military personnel in Korea and Japan. We are also concerned about information we received in May 2001 that American citizens may be the target of a terrorist threat from extremist groups with links to Usama Bin Ladin's Al-Qaida organization. In the past, such individuals have not distinguished between official and civilian targets. As always, we take this information seriously. U.S. Government facilities worldwide remain at a heightened state of alert.

Salman Rushdie prevented from flying Sept 3

Quote:
HE author Salman Rushdie believes that US authorities knew of an imminent terrorist strike when they banned him from taking internal flights in Canada and the US only a week before the attacks.
On September 3 the Federal Aviation Authority made an emergency ruling to prevent Mr Rushdie from flying unless airlines complied with strict and costly security measures. Mr Rushdie told The Times that the airlines would not upgrade their security.

The FAA told the author's publisher that US intelligence had given warning of "something out there" but failed to give any further details.

The FAA confirmed that it stepped up security measures concerning Mr Rushdie but refused to give a reason.

And many, many others.

So the question really is: if all this was known then how could Israeli Intel not know.

That is the question you need to address instead of shouting about tinfoil hats.

It is foreseeable that the US did not take these warnings seriously - unlikely though in the light of the above - but you would need to argue that Mossad also ignored them or did not know of them.

If you want to discuss seriously that is. Alternatively you could just post the results of a Google Image search or talk about kittens or small rodents.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #150 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Yes well, you haven't exactly proved that you are the master of logical and rational thought so let's keep going awhile.

This is how we can make a logical construction out of this mess you seem intent on creating:

1) If it can be proved that ANYONE had foreknowledge (other than than the perps) - that is to say, if it can be shown that a possible attack was in the public domain then the equation becomes simpler...

Ie it becomes a question of "why did Israel not know" rather than "did Israel know". Actually the same can be said of the US - "why did they not know?"

So the question is: were there warnings?

Answer: yes:

German Police confirm phoned warning



Condoleeza Rice warned Sept 6th



State Dept Warning Sept 7th



Salman Rushdie prevented from flying Sept 3



And many, many others.

So the question really is: if all this was known then how could Israeli Intel not know.

That is the question you need to address instead of shouting about tinfoil hats.

It is foreseeable that the US did not take these warnings seriously - unlikely though in the light of the above - but you would need to argue that Mossad also ignored them or did not know of them.

If you want to discuss seriously that is. Alternatively you could just post the results of a Google Image search or talk about kittens or small rodents.

I can't play your game and I won't play YOUR game! That is THE point! Prove a negative? Get it?

Like I stated above from a probabilistic POV, I think I've got at least 6 sigma on your hatters, seriously think about it, OK?

What didn't we know and when didn't we know it! \
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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post #151 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

I can't play your game and I won't play YOUR game!

Exactly - because you are playing YOUR game and that is your inalienable right.

All I'm saying is let's actually put a name to your game. I suggest it is called:

Giving the Government a blank cheque and refusing to question them in any way shape or form whilst deriding anyone who does raise any questions whatsoever

It used to be called "The Emperor's New Clothes" but they had to change it because the small child in that story served the purpose of waking people up.

In this version he is subject to rendition, waterboarded and is never heard of again.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #152 of 209
It's likely that US-intelligence as well as israeli intelligence knew of an imminent attack on the WTC, but they probably didn't know how and when and by whom the attack would be committed.

Sure, the US could have evacuated the WTC days before the attack, but it wouldn't have helped much, the terrorists would have changed their plans and attacked another target.

So instead the US tried to track down the possible terrorists but ultimately failed.

The israeli intelligence, that is normally prohibitted to spy on the US, did so nonetheless, but could not share the gathered intelligence with the US without having to admit to spying in the US which they officially don't do and are not allowed to do...

So, you have the Mossad awaiting a likely attack on the WTC and filming it, and after the attack bursting out in joy, because the attack means that the US will side much more with Israel.

No need for deep and evil conspiracies.

Nightcrawler
I disagree, and could prove you're wrong; care to offer any proof that you're not wrong?
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I disagree, and could prove you're wrong; care to offer any proof that you're not wrong?
Reply
post #153 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightcrawler View Post

It's likely that US-intelligence as well as israeli intelligence knew of an imminent attack on the WTC, but they probably didn't know how and when and by whom the attack would be committed.

Sure, the US could have evacuated the WTC days before the attack, but it wouldn't have helped much, the terrorists would have changed their plans and attacked another target.

So instead the US tried to track down the possible terrorists but ultimately failed.

The israeli intelligence, that is normally prohibitted to spy on the US, did so nonetheless, but could not share the gathered intelligence with the US without having to admit to spying in the US which they officially don't do and are not allowed to do...

So, you have the Mossad awaiting a likely attack on the WTC and filming it, and after the attack bursting out in joy, because the attack means that the US will side much more with Israel.

No need for deep and evil conspiracies.

Nightcrawler

That's all I've ever said.

The 'conspiracy' accusation is one that has been aimed at me rather than one stemming from me.

Even those facts you mention will be too much for some. Some people cannot psychologically handle the possibility that some things may not be as they appear to be. It unhinges them.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #154 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

I already provided a link DISPROVING whatever it is you're trying to PROVE! \


Ok... I read the whole Wikipedia link, and we all know no one ever manipulates Wikipedia...

But I digress... I read the whole Wikipidia link you provided.

Where is the disproof? The entry merely reports what we have already been discussing.

To say your link disproves that the five Israelis filming and dancing on the roof of the "moving company" van had prior knowledge is... wait for it... a lie.

I'd say the interview linked by Sammi Jo shows some pretty damned compelling evidence. Hassan's link is pretty compelling against that evidence. But your Wiki entry said nothing.
post #155 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightcrawler View Post

Sure, the US could have evacuated the WTC days before the attack, but it wouldn't have helped much, the terrorists would have changed their plans and attacked another target.

Though you make a point, their plan to carry out was the only one they had been trained to do. I don't believe they had any other plan other than the 9-11 targets (there was Khalid Sheikh Mohammed's confession of a supposed Los Angeles airliner plot, which was "foiled" in 2002. Evacuating the WTC towers seems too drastic and costly either. What should have been done was beefing up security at all US airports and flights.
post #156 of 209
For all those who still acknowledge/have faith in the official fairystory, which is the weirdest and most unlikely conspiracy theory of the wackiest kind, but with lots of big media money and time/repetition behind it to shape history with lies and misrepresentations, the lamest and weakest conspiracy yarn of them all, and the ultimate in tinfoil-hattism since the dawn of the Weekly World News, consider:

If the US Government is so blameless in this entire affair, apart from exhibiting "a lack of imagination" (!!!!!!!!!), then why has their conduct been so shifty, secretive, evasive, and untruthful in the aftermath?

I could count off hundreds of incidents of this kind of behavior, which, in the circumstances is weird, illogical and inappropriate. The refusal to open any kind of inquiry until 441 days after the attacks is just the tip of the iceberg. It was only the pressure from the "Jersey Girls" and others which forced the Admin. into opening an "inquiry", the Zelikow "Commission", which was starved of cash and time, and they demonstrably lied and misrepresented the facts on perhaps 65 of the most pertinent aspects of the attacks.

If so blameless, why all the lies, why the obfuscations, why the need to do "hit pieces", why all the behavior that runs 180º in opposition to what would be reasonably expected, if the attacks had been what whey said they were? Furthermore, if 3000 people were killed and $billions of property damage incurred as a result of "government incompetence and lack of imagination", heads would still be rolling now, 6 years later. In contrast, not a single person was fired, or demoted, or carpeted, or reprimanded, or courtmartialed, or tried, fined, jailed. Nothing. In contrast, some of those who exhibited the greatest degree of "lack of imagination" ended up being promoted. Cronyism and mass murder, hand in hand?

We don't even need evidence of explosions in and under the towers, or disappearing planes, or bilocating hijackers.. etc etc. Just look at the conduct of those in charge, and that should convince anyone who displays the remotest degree of sentience, that something is grossly amiss. Then...ask the questions, that is, if one can get behind the multiple concentric rings of security that separate the paranoids in government from the great unwashed they allegedly represent.
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #157 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Exactly - because you are playing YOUR game and that is your inalienable right.

All I'm saying is let's actually put a name to your game. I suggest it is called:

Giving the Government a blank cheque and refusing to question them in any way shape or form whilst deriding anyone who does raise any questions whatsoever

It used to be called "The Emperor's New Clothes" but they had to change it because the small child in that story served the purpose of waking people up.

In this version he is subject to rendition, waterboarded and is never heard of again.

There IS a distinct difference between an elected/appointed political figure and a public civil servant, trained to do the forensics, trained to do the analyses, trained to track down credible information, and have a lifetime of experience in these various disciplines.

There is a distinct difference between an elected/appointed political figure and private sector individuals, trained to do the forensics, trained to do the analyses, trained to track down credible information, and have a lifetime of experience in these various disciplines.


And then you have the Hatters who have none of the above!

Forever conjecturing even more spaghetti logic, or pretzel logic if you prefer, shoot down one hatter conjecture, and up pops another hatter twist, to their ever increasing complex maze that HAS NO EXIT!
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
Reply
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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post #158 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Ok... I read the whole Wikipedia link, and we all know no one ever manipulates Wikipedia...

But I digress... I read the whole Wikipidia link you provided.

Where is the disproof? The entry merely reports what we have already been discussing.

To say your link disproves that the five Israelis filming and dancing on the roof of the "moving company" van had prior knowledge is... wait for it... a lie.

I'd say the interview linked by Sammi Jo shows some pretty damned compelling evidence. Hassan's link is pretty compelling against that evidence. But your Wiki entry said nothing.

Then go back and READ it again!
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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post #159 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightcrawler View Post

It's likely that US-intelligence as well as israeli intelligence knew of an imminent attack on the WTC, but they probably didn't know how and when and by whom the attack would be committed.

Sure, the US could have evacuated the WTC days before the attack, but it wouldn't have helped much, the terrorists would have changed their plans and attacked another target.

So instead the US tried to track down the possible terrorists but ultimately failed.

The israeli intelligence, that is normally prohibitted to spy on the US, did so nonetheless, but could not share the gathered intelligence with the US without having to admit to spying in the US which they officially don't do and are not allowed to do...

So, you have the Mossad awaiting a likely attack on the WTC and filming it, and after the attack bursting out in joy, because the attack means that the US will side much more with Israel.

No need for deep and evil conspiracies.

Nightcrawler

Please provide some credible information (e. g. links with documented facts and NOT hearsay links from blog-o-smear central) as to you endless stream of conjectures. I'm waiting!
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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post #160 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

Please provide some credible information (e. g. links with documented facts and NOT hearsay links from blog-o-smear central) as to you endless stream of conjectures. I'm waiting!

Credible = what you would accept.

In these terms, I submit there is no such info in existence.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
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