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Anyone tryed Apple's new presentations software yet-Keynote?

post #1 of 33
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An Applestore employee gave me a quick demo and it looked cool, but I also noted it's not compatible with Power Point, which is an inconvenience.
post #2 of 33
it is compatible.
post #3 of 33
It is compatible in that it can import/export PP files pretty darned well.

If you have complex layouts in PP, it's not perfect, and you may (probably will) have to adjust things manually, but good *LORD* it's easy to do so in Keynote.

Keynote is da shibnitz, IMNSHO. I've used PP for several years of agonizing presentations, and Keynote is almost exactly what I've wanted. There is a huge amount of power and flexibility in a simple looking interface. I keep finding neat things to play with.

It doesn't have drawing tools comparable to PP... what it *does* have is extremely flexible simple tools (once you realize all the things you can do with a simple shape, you'll be astounded). Also, it has the ability to import just about any image you'd like, so you can use the tool that is right for *your* job (Photoshop, OmniGraffle, etc), and plop it in place with a drag-and-drop, instead of being locked into its own tools, ala PP. I *much* prefer it this way.
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post #4 of 33
Ditto what Kickaha said except that I haven't used PP as extensively.

I've just started tinkering with its features and am really liking how it is put together. One of my professors has already been using Keynote on his PowerBook for his daily presentations since about a week ago. He exports them to PowerPoint format and saves them on the web for students to download. The files all work flawlessly.

On a side note, I really like how in a class of some 100+ programmers all these windows and linux geeks starts oohing and gasping and chattering about the cool OpenGL-powered transitions in Keynote (and even little things like Dock magnification).



[ 02-21-2003: Message edited by: Brad ]</p>
post #5 of 33
[quote]Originally posted by Brad:
<strong>Ditto what Kickaha said except that I haven't used PP as extensively. </strong><hr></blockquote>

You lucky bastich.

[quote]<strong>On a side note, I really like how in a class of some 100+ programmers all these windows and linux geeks starts oohing and gasping and chattering about the cool OpenGL-powered transitions in Keynote (and even little things like Dock magnification).

</strong><hr></blockquote>

Isn't that just a riot?

It's even more fun when your *advisor* goes all ga-ga over MacOS X. On a Pismo.

We now have a Dual 1.4GHz G4/2GB RAM/180GB/GeForce4/23" Cinema Display on its way to our research group.
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post #6 of 33
I have an importing powerpoint question

In Windows isn't text-scaling done in some weird way. Like it is at 96dpi instead of 72? The result of this is that text meant to be viewed in windows can look too small on a Mac. I think this used to be the case with some web pages.

It is certainly the case with Quicktime text tracks.

Can someone explainthis phenomenon and how it relates to Keynote?
post #7 of 33
One thing I would mention about Keynote is that it is missing some features of Powerpoint like automatic timed slide shows and looping through a slide show. If you're running a Keynote file, you have to tell it to switch to the next slide each time, and it won't go back to the first slide when you go past the last slide. Now, on one hand, I've never seen this really used in presentations in front of a group. On the other, if it's for kiosk-like functionality, Keynote exports to Quicktime (various presets for qulaity, size, etc. which can either run continuously and loop or can be set for prompts to move from one slide to the next.

Another gotcha of exporting to PowerPoint from Keynote is that the 3D transitions aren't preserved since Powerpoint doesn't have them. (2D transitions are preserved I believe.) Also, Powerpoint will do a terrible job dithering some embedded files from Keynote, like PDFs and GIFs. So some otherwise gorgeous presentations in Keyonte can get garbled by older verions of Powerpoint. I think PowerPoint XP fixes this problem.
post #8 of 33
Give um some credit BuonRotto... it's still in its infancy... I expect many wonderful things from keynote... I use it and love it. When they add a few more things to it which are 'missing' I'll be even happier...
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post #9 of 33
Oh, I didn't mean to disparage it at all. I think it's a great application, one of Apple's strongest in some time, and the price is excellent IMNHO.

I just was pointing out what seem to be the big issues some PowerPoint users seem to have with it judging by Apple's Keynote forum. The first part seems like a really minor issue to me at least; I can't imagine how or why someone would use a Keynote presentation on a timed loop. I can see doing this with a Quicktime export for a kiosk-type display, but not when presenting it yourself in front of a group. The second issue is entirely PowerPoint's shortcoming; it just can't handle the quality graphics like Keynote can. Both just seem to be two of the big gripes PowerPoint experts point out as problemmatic with Keynote right now. I thought this person might be coming from that perspective.

I'm really hoping Apple adds Keynote's guides to the standard Cocoa toolbar in 10.3.

I'm also glad to see Apple using Inspectors well like that. I hope that it both encourages other developers to make use of this UI element over other custom and sometimes bizarre palette schemes (Adobe and Macromedia come to mind), plus I hope Apple starts to make more use of them in their own apps as well (like the Finder's inspector!).

Say what you want about Steve Jobs, but he really got those programmers and designers to create a very nice and polished application in its first iteration. There will probably be another update or two that deals with these problems as well as some PDF export issues (Keynote produces huge PDF files right now). Then it will be better than PowerPoint in pretty much all respects, aside from feature creep of course.
post #10 of 33
Got an NFR of Keynote a few weeks ago.

I like it. I might actually create some presentations now.

That's a sign of a good product: one that shows you that you have a need you didn't recognize before.
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post #11 of 33
Keynote destroys PP in elegance from what I have seen, what did you expect?
post #12 of 33
I don't like it. It's not as good as PowerPoint which says a lot because PP aint that great.
post #13 of 33
[quote]Originally posted by Scott:
<strong>I don't like it. It's not as good as PowerPoint which says a lot because PP aint that great.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Care to elaborate, Scott? I haven't had a chance to use it much yet, but I know that there are some niggles with it. Let's hear your complaints....
post #14 of 33
[quote]Originally posted by torifile:
<strong>Care to elaborate, Scott? I haven't had a chance to use it much yet, but I know that there are some niggles with it. Let's hear your complaints....</strong><hr></blockquote>

Don't pay him any mind, that's just scott's MO.
post #15 of 33
I gave my first presentation on it yesterday, and it worked great with the projector. I had it on dual-display so I could look at the PowerBook while the screen was behind me, and I got a little nervous because the transitions (I used "flip") was breaking up on the computer screen - not smooth at all. However, the projected screen (through VGA) was displaying the transitions very smoothly. I suppose it's some graphics card issue (TiBook 800).

It's slow, especially when saving or opening, which takes several seconds, and always annoys me.

I did notice another annoying thing with builds - if you want the first component of the display to show without having to click (like in a graph, which treats the outline of the graph as the first build component), you can do it, but it just builds it automatically rather than displaying it from the beginning. Wastes a couple seconds everytime.
post #16 of 33
The thing that sucks about it is that it requires 8 megabytes of VRAM to just show the presentation. I guess it makes sense with all those mad-cool 3D transitions, but still! I can't run presentation software on my Beige G3?
post #17 of 33
I just got my copy this morning and I'm definitely impressed. I'll definitely be taking a look at this some more when I get a chance.
post #18 of 33
i just got my copy last night! I am excited to play with it... Not like i ever make presentations.. hahaha

iLife/Keynote for educators is WORTH IT!

steve jobs rules!
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"The crickets and the rust-beetles scuttled among the nettles of the sage thicket. "Vamanos, amigos," he whispered, and threw the busted leather flintcraw over the loose weave of the saddlecock....
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post #19 of 33
[quote]Originally posted by BuonRotto:
<strong>
I can't imagine how or why someone would use a Keynote presentation on a timed loop. I can see doing this with a Quicktime export for a kiosk-type display, but not when presenting it yourself in front of a group. </strong><hr></blockquote>

Acually I just flew back from doing an awards show, and this feature was something in PP I used. I had 2 ti books hooked up to a switcher projecting to 2 screens, and on one Ti book I would run the main show manualy switching winning company logos and other graphics, and then I would switch to the other computer (also used it as my backup) to run looping timed sponsor logos through out the meal portion of the show. First show I did in osx too

I cant belive thats not in keynote, why the hell wouldnt they add that, people use PP for alot of other multi media things besides speaker presentations.

[ 02-24-2003: Message edited by: Ti Fighter ]</p>
post #20 of 33
Isn't that what iPhoto is for?

Export to iMovie, toss in Ken Burns Effect(tm)... save as QT movie... voila.

[ 02-24-2003: Message edited by: Kickaha ]</p>
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post #21 of 33
[quote]Originally posted by serrano:
<strong>

Don't pay him any mind, that's just scott's MO.</strong><hr></blockquote>


Sigh! Another troll. Crawl back under your bridge. I have a reason for not liking this software ...


The drawing tools suck. As much as the tools in PP suck the ones in Safari are even more limited. I can't transform the shapes as needed to diagram what I want. I can in PP with some work.

If all I wanted to do was put up some text and pics and maybe a movie Keynote would be fine but most of all I like to draw schematics of what I'm talking about. With Safari I can't even draw the basics of what I need.

Also I think $100 is way WAY too much for this almost not beta software.


Hey everyone! Just because Apple makes it doesn't mean it's the greatest thing since the Apple ][
post #22 of 33
Apple and customers would be better served by a more polished Sketch app ideally. Though Apple does have its own drawing/polygon objects in Cocoa-- beziers and stuff. So more flexible drawing tools are certainly available to Keynote. I think just having a simple bezier line tool would quiet a lot of the criticism. Add boolean operations on them, and what more do you need that doesn't call for a separate application altogether?
post #23 of 33
[quote]Originally posted by Scott:
<strong>The drawing tools suck. As much as the tools in PP suck the ones in Safari are even more limited. </strong><hr></blockquote>

Pssst. I think you mean Keynote.


[quote]<strong>I can't transform the shapes as needed to diagram what I want. I can in PP with some work.</strong><hr></blockquote>

And OmniGraffle with even less work.

[quote]<strong>If all I wanted to do was put up some text and pics and maybe a movie Keynote would be fine but most of all I like to draw schematics of what I'm talking about. With Safari I can't even draw the basics of what I need.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Psssst... aw, nevermind.

[quote]<strong>Also I think $100 is way WAY too much for this almost not beta software.


Hey everyone! Just because Apple makes it doesn't mean it's the greatest thing since the Apple ][ </strong><hr></blockquote>

Nope, the fact that I can whip up a killer presentation in a lot less time than I can in PP is why I love it.

Seriously, you *CAN'T* be serious about diagramming if you're trying to use *PowerPoint's* drawing tools. I mean come on, talk about suckage... I wanted to use *anything* else, but PP doesn't play well with the other children. Importing graphics is a) a pain, and b) often times looks *horrible*. MS wants to lock you into their tools 100%. Sounds like you took the bait.
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post #24 of 33
I tried with that software. Tried to draw one of the most basic things I need. Couldn't do it. Couldn't figgure it out at least. Spent some time on it. Plus I have PP for free everywhere. So why bother?
post #25 of 33
[quote]Originally posted by Kickaha:
<strong>... MS wants to lock you into their tools 100%. Sounds like you took the bait. </strong><hr></blockquote>


No I didn't take any bait a-hole. I just used Apple software and found it laking. I hate PP but I can't do what I need with Keynote.
post #26 of 33
Calm down. He's just teasin', thus the wink smiley.
post #27 of 33
Don't worry BR, he's like that.

Seriously people, PP's drawing tools bite. They lock you into using PP for all your drawing, period. If PP doesn't offer something you need, then you're up a creek.

Keynote lets you use whatever tool meets your needs, and drag and drop in the final image. Voila.

And Scott, you really can't be serious that PP's drawing tools could do something easily that a dedicated drawing app couldn't... I mean really. Ah, I guess getting it for free dulls the pain though.

Okay, I'll bite... what were you trying to do that OG couldn't, but PP could? You've got my curiosity piqued. Heck, you may have actually found something, in which case either I can possibly point you to a solution, or we can double-team OmniGroup with bug reports.

[ 02-25-2003: Message edited by: Kickaha ]</p>
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post #28 of 33
[quote]Originally posted by Kickaha:
<strong>Seriously people, PP's drawing tools bite. They lock you into using PP for all your drawing, period. If PP doesn't offer something you need, then you're up a creek.</strong><hr></blockquote>

If I may attempt some diplomacy, Keynote's drawing stools are basic but leegant. PowerPoint's drawing tools are a bit clumsy but more numerous.

The whole idea of Microsoft's approach to its software is that you use an application until you are finished -- that users do not and should not leave that environment for anything. So they provide a huge range of tools in each app. Those tools are redundant with one another, and are sometimes (OK, often) inconsistent with each other too. OS X's objects allow standard elements in each app (e.g., font panel, color panel, drawing tools, formatting tools, rulers, etc.). So while OS X does some similar things for basic tools, and makes sure they are kept consistent, they assume that users will mix and match the best tools for the job for anything more advanced. I am truly babbling now.....
post #29 of 33
Naw, I think you have it right.

MS = throw everything into every app, regardless of whether the functionality is best served by a different app. God forbid that if you give the user choice of what app to use, they might choose a non-MS app. Hence, offer up everything but the kitchen sink, and hope that they make do and stick around. (Not that they have much choice, really...)

Apple = a lot of smaller apps that do specific jobs well, but work well with each other. Grab the app tailored to your specific job at hand, then toss the result into another app for further massaging. End result: user gets to choose the app they need for their specialized task.

Keynote offers a *very* basic set of drawing tools (more like shape objects to toss on), because it doesn't expect to meet everyone's needs. If you have something more complex, use a more dedicated app. OmniGraffle draws. iMovie edits video. Keynote presents. I'd like to see Apple come out with a simple drawing app for producing diagrams, but OG is just suhweet for everything I've thrown at it. (Ken, can I get my next major upgrade free now? )

[ 02-24-2003: Message edited by: Kickaha ]</p>
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post #30 of 33
[quote]Originally posted by Kickaha:
<strong>...

And Scott, you really can't be serious that PP's drawing tools could do something easily that a dedicated drawing app couldn't... I mean really. Ah, I guess getting it for free dulls the pain though.</strong><hr></blockquote>


Not I'm not " serious that PP's drawing tools could do something easily that a dedicated drawing app couldn't... I mean really" because that's not what I said at all. Unless you consider Keynote a "dedicated drawing app" which I don't.

[quote]Originally posted by Kickaha:
<strong>Okay, I'll bite... what were you trying to do that OG couldn't, but PP could? You've got my curiosity piqued. Heck, you may have actually found something, in which case either I can possibly point you to a solution, or we can double-team OmniGroup with bug reports.
</strong><hr></blockquote>


I think I was trying to skew a rectangle. From this | | to this / / in Keynote. Couldn't figure it out.
post #31 of 33
[quote]Originally posted by Scott:
<strong>Not I'm not " serious that PP's drawing tools could do something easily that a dedicated drawing app couldn't... I mean really" because that's not what I said at all. Unless you consider Keynote a "dedicated drawing app" which I don't.</strong><hr></blockquote>

D'oh, my bad. I could swear that you were comparing the drawing tools in PP to those in an external drawing app. Reading back, you didn't. Sorry 'bout that.

[quote]<strong>I think I was trying to skew a rectangle. From this | | to this / / in Keynote. Couldn't figure it out.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Nope, it can't do it. Closest you can get is to create a right triangle, stretch it to the right angles, size it to the right size, copy/paste then flip the copy and group them together. *whew*

I'd recommend using another app, then dragging the drawing in. Works very nicely.

Although I did find a bug today in doing this... some colors got screwed up. Same screwup when pasting into TextEdit, so I suspect its a bug in OmniGraffle.
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post #32 of 33
How could someone misspell "tried"? Tell me the education system hasn't been shot to hell.
post #33 of 33
[quote]Originally posted by tonton:
<strong>How could someone misspell "tried"? Tell me the education system hasn't been shot to hell.</strong><hr></blockquote>


WHO CARES! Are you his mother? Do you know what country he's posting from? Age?
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