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Well, it's time: E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES! - Page 4

post #121 of 287
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShawnJ View Post

I wonder what Buddy Ryan is doing these days...

I hear Richie Kotite is available...
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post #122 of 287
Dallas @ Eagles - Ugh. Just no words for this one.

Lions spanking Denver - Hmm, not sure if it's a Cinderella season, or they are for real.

Minnesota - Eagles beat the Vikes, then the Vikes tear up San Diego. Such a strange year in the NFL.

Adrian Peterson - If he can keep this up for 8 or 10 seasons, we'll be saying Emmit who? Barry who? Just amazing ability. Could be the first rookie to run for 2K also.
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post #123 of 287
Quote:
Originally Posted by iPoster View Post

Minnesota - Eagles beat the Vikes, then the Vikes tear up San Diego. Such a strange year in the NFL.

Adrian Peterson - If he can keep this up for 8 or 10 seasons, we'll be saying Emmit who? Barry who? Just amazing ability. Could be the first rookie to run for 2K also.

Yeah, no doubt, Peterson is just amazing.

Should make for a good game next Sunday in Greenbay. I'll be there when the Packers beat the Viqueens

-t
post #124 of 287
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cake View Post

So far so good!
McNabb isn't throwing too well (except into the ground) and the Cowboys Offensive line is doing its job and giving Romo lots of time.

Second half is make or break for the Eagles.
They could easily lose to New England, Washington, New York (Giants) and New Orleans in the coming weeks.

I hope SDW is drinking heavily at the game.

I was, in fact, totally wasted. At this point the season is done. At least I got there and drank for 10 hours before hand.
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post #125 of 287
LOL...

My season was done in Week 6. All I have to look forward is drinking 10 hours before hand...
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post #126 of 287
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

I was, in fact, totally wasted. At this point the season is done. At least I got there and drank for 10 hours before hand.

Well, hell - sounds like you found a way to enjoy the game! Can't beat that.
post #127 of 287
Thread Starter 
Well, it wasn't pretty but they got the job done today. McNabb at least ran when he needed to. Too bad he fumbled and didn't pass well. Still, I'll take it. And man...Westbrook. Jeez!
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post #128 of 287
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Well, it wasn't pretty but they got the job done today. McNabb at least ran when he needed to. Too bad he fumbled and didn't pass well. Still, I'll take it. And man...Westbrook. Jeez!

Second. I liked the 4th quarter...
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post #129 of 287
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bageljoey View Post

Second. I liked the 4th quarter...

At this point I think we turn to next year. I have been considering the future of Reid and McNabb.

I say there is a 40% chance that Reid resigns all together after the season. I give it 60% chance that he gives up the VP of Football Ops position.

McNabb: If his play continues to improve modestly, stay stagnant, or goes downhill, I say there is a 60% chance they trade McNabb. I think that goes down to 20% or less if he improves significantly throughout the season and they make the playoffs. But if they finish 8-8 or 9-7? I don't think they aare going to keep him around.
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post #130 of 287
Really, I think McNabb's still a pretty good (or at the very least average) QB, although Westbrook is clearly the most valuable player on the team now. McNabb's only real stinker this season was the first Washington game where he couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. I think the defense is your teams biggest problem; it has aged rapidly.

This is one of my favorite sites

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/200...-ratings/5752/

and by their stats, the Eagle's D is 22nd in the league. If McNabb gets traded and you start a 2nd year guy with a declining defense that leads to playing from behind, well, I think the Eagle's will be in for a much worse season next year than they're having now.
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post #131 of 287
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flounder View Post

Really, I think McNabb's still a pretty good (or at the very least average) QB, although Westbrook is clearly the most valuable player on the team now. McNabb's only real stinker this season was the first Washington game where he couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. I think the defense is your teams biggest problem; it has aged rapidly.

This is one of my favorite sites

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/200...-ratings/5752/

and by their stats, the Eagle's D is 22nd in the league. If McNabb gets traded and you start a 2nd year guy with a declining defense that leads to playing from behind, well, I think the Eagle's will be in for a much worse season next year than they're having now.

Flounder, I think if I was to look at this with my rational brain, I would come up with much the same conclusion. McNabb isn't what he was in his good areas and he is no better in his weak areas, but he is still better than a Joe Schmo.
To be honest, I have no idea what the prospects of a Kolb are in the NFL--based on the various opinions I have read, I guess no one else really knows either.

But at this point in the season, I cannot begin to give up. We are only 2 games out of the wildcard with 7 yet to play. Hell, that's nothing compared to what the Phillies did!
Of course they don't look like a playoff team now (they have a losing record--I know) but after we win 6 of the last seven we are going to look much better...
2007 ain't over yet!
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post #132 of 287
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flounder View Post

Really, I think McNabb's still a pretty good (or at the very least average) QB, although Westbrook is clearly the most valuable player on the team now. McNabb's only real stinker this season was the first Washington game where he couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. I think the defense is your teams biggest problem; it has aged rapidly.

This is one of my favorite sites

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/200...-ratings/5752/

and by their stats, the Eagle's D is 22nd in the league. If McNabb gets traded and you start a 2nd year guy with a declining defense that leads to playing from behind, well, I think the Eagle's will be in for a much worse season next year than they're having now.

McNabb played poorly until the Vikings game, where he did a nice job. But the last two weeks he's fumbled and not been very accurate. We started to see some of the old McNabb again this week with his mobility and ability to create success out of nothing. What I'm saying is that if he got no better, I still see a good chance that he'll be traded. If he continues to improve at a good pace, then I'd say he'll be OK.
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post #133 of 287
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bageljoey View Post

Flounder, I think if I was to look at this with my rational brain, I would come up with much the same conclusion. McNabb isn't what he was in his good areas and he is no better in his weak areas, but he is still better than a Joe Schmo.
To be honest, I have no idea what the prospects of a Kolb are in the NFL--based on the various opinions I have read, I guess no one else really knows either.

But at this point in the season, I cannot begin to give up. We are only 2 games out of the wildcard with 7 yet to play. Hell, that's nothing compared to what the Phillies did!
Of course they don't look like a playoff team now (they have a losing record--I know) but after we win 6 of the last seven we are going to look much better...
2007 ain't over yet!

If they win all but the Patriots game they go 10-6, which would be enough for a Wild Card this year. The question is whether or not they can knock off Dallas too. I kind of doubt it. Realistically I see them going 9-7, and MAYBE getting a Wild Card berth. They might even win a round, but as soon as they hit a Dallas or Green bay, they're done.
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post #134 of 287
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

The question is whether or not they can knock off Dallas too. I kind of doubt it.

Of course, one can't forget that the Dallas game comes late--Dallas may be playing for nothing at that point--especailly if GB stays hot...

It is all part of my master plan...
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post #135 of 287
What's all this talk about McNabb not playing well? The only seasons he's put up better numbers were last year and the Super Bowl year. As I pointed out on an Eagles board I frequent, he's #9 in the NFL in passer Rating, YPG, and has the fewest INTs of any starter. That puts him above Manning, Palmer and Hasslebeck in Rating. It means there are only 8 QBs in the league putting up better numbers than him, and 3 of them are probable Hall of Famers. Even before the Washington game Donovan was above his career averages in Completion %, Rating and INT %. All that with no real threat at WR/TE, and very poor coaching/game planning. And remember, McNabb's never been a really accurate QB at any point in his career. (Career comp % - 58.5%)

And the most important statistic of all...Donovan doesn't play defense!

IMHO if the Eagles get rid of Reid, I'd expect a huge turnaround as soon as the team gets acclimated to the new coach. I hear Bill Cower is available!
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post #136 of 287
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by iPoster View Post

What's all this talk about McNabb not playing well? The only seasons he's put up better numbers were last year and the Super Bowl year. As I pointed out on an Eagles board I frequent, he's #9 in the NFL in passer Rating, YPG, and has the fewest INTs of any starter. That puts him above Manning, Palmer and Hasslebeck in Rating. It means there are only 8 QBs in the league putting up better numbers than him, and 3 of them are probable Hall of Famers. Even before the Washington game Donovan was above his career averages in Completion %, Rating and INT %. All that with no real threat at WR/TE, and very poor coaching/game planning. And remember, McNabb's never been a really accurate QB at any point in his career. (Career comp % - 58.5%)

And the most important statistic of all...Donovan doesn't play defense!

IMHO if the Eagles get rid of Reid, I'd expect a huge turnaround as soon as the team gets acclimated to the new coach. I hear Bill Cower is available!

One of the reasons he doesn't throw interceptions is that if he misses, he usually misses big. He throws passes down and away, making it impossible for anyone to catch them. And really...McNabb not being that accurate is hardly a point FOR him, agreed? The other thing you're not pointing out is fumbles. He seems to do that a lot. He's fumbled twice in two games because he doesn't protect the ball.

But there is also an intangible here: McNabb's attitude...his urgency, his leadership. He's never shown the kind of urgency he's needed to, nor displayed the leadership qualities he needs. He doesn't have that x factor of turning it on when the game is on the line. He can make great plays, and sometimes those plays ARE game winners, but he blows it just as often. He lacks that Tom Brady, Joe Montana, John Elway and Peyton Manning game-winning drive quality.

I still root for him to do well. I WANT him to do well. I really would love to see him turn this thing around and prove people wrong...including me. But I've been saying that since, oh, 1999. And just when it seems he's there...like in the Super Bowl, the old shit-eating grin and tapping himself on the chest when he messes up begins. Did I mention the shit-eating grin?
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post #137 of 287
Quote:
Originally Posted by iPoster View Post

As I pointed out on an Eagles board I frequent, he's #9 in the NFL in passer Rating, YPG, and has the fewest INTs of any starter. That puts him above Manning, Palmer and Hasslebeck in Rating.

This isn't particularly about McNabb, but I just wanted to say that the passer rating statistic is terrible. It dramatically over-rewards check down passes. 6 yard passes on third and 10 are good for your QB rating, but don't help your team win.

Since I mentioned them before, I'll link to footballoutsiders again

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb.php

Per their statistics, McNabb is rated 13th, which seems about right to me.
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post #138 of 287
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

But there is also an intangible here: McNabb's attitude...his urgency, his leadership. He's never shown the kind of urgency he's needed to, nor displayed the leadership qualities he needs. He doesn't have that x factor of turning it on when the game is on the line. He can make great plays, and sometimes those plays ARE game winners, but he blows it just as often. He lacks that Tom Brady, Joe Montana, John Elway and Peyton Manning game-winning drive quality.

I would never compare McNabb to Elway, Montana, etc., I was just pointing out that statistically he's not having as bad a year as many seem to think. The way people are talking, you'd think he was making Ryan Leaf look good. Yes, he's having some problems, but I don't believe he's a major cause of the Eagles being 4-5. He doesn't coach the game plan (or lack thereof); has nobody other than Westbrook who scares a defense to throw to; doesn't play special teams or defense, both of which have lost at least 3 games this year. I think he's a very good, but not quite 'special' QB, not quite able to control a game on his own, but still better than 90% of the QBs out there. I'd compare him favorably to O'Brien, Esiason or Moon.

I do have to agree with you about his intangibles, they have always been iffy at best. But then, if QBs were judged solely on intangibles, Jim McMahon would be the best QB of all time!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flounder View Post

This isn't particularly about McNabb, but I just wanted to say that the passer rating statistic is terrible. It dramatically over-rewards check down passes. 6 yard passes on third and 10 are good for your QB rating, but don't help your team win.

Agreed, the QB Rating is outdated with today's high percentage passing systems, IIRC it was invented when QBs threw 15-20 passes per game, most of which were long ball attempts. That said, it's still considered to be an important statistical record by the NFL. (most seasons leading league, seasons with >100 QB Rating, etc.)
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post #139 of 287
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by iPoster View Post

I would never compare McNabb to Elway, Montana, etc., I was just pointing out that statistically he's not having as bad a year as many seem to think. The way people are talking, you'd think he was making Ryan Leaf look good. Yes, he's having some problems, but I don't believe he's a major cause of the Eagles being 4-5. He doesn't coach the game plan (or lack thereof); has nobody other than Westbrook who scares a defense to throw to; doesn't play special teams or defense, both of which have lost at least 3 games this year. I think he's a very good, but not quite 'special' QB, not quite able to control a game on his own, but still better than 90% of the QBs out there. I'd compare him favorably to O'Brien, Esiason or Moon.

I do have to agree with you about his intangibles, they have always been iffy at best. But then, if QBs were judged solely on intangibles, Jim McMahon would be the best QB of all time!

I agree with most of that actually. The Eagles would have won the Green Bay game if not for the punt returns (or fumbles, actually). They should have won the bears game. They didn't play well enough in total to win the Giants, Redskins, or Dallas games. Really I think they are probably more a 6-3 team right now, quality wise.

As for McNabb, I think my problem is he seems to portray himself as Montana or Elway. He just seems to think of himself in that light.

Quote:

Agreed, the QB Rating is outdated with today's high percentage passing systems, IIRC it was invented when QBs threw 15-20 passes per game, most of which were long ball attempts. That said, it's still considered to be an important statistical record by the NFL. (most seasons leading league, seasons with >100 QB Rating, etc.)

I think the passer rating needs to go away. Look...my rating is a perfect 158.3! What the hell? Check this out

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passer_..._passer_rating

Check out their formula under "NFL perfect passer rating" <head spins>
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post #140 of 287
Quote:
Originally Posted by iPoster View Post

Agreed, the QB Rating is outdated with today's high percentage passing systems, IIRC it was invented when QBs threw 15-20 passes per game, most of which were long ball attempts. That said, it's still considered to be an important statistical record by the NFL. (most seasons leading league, seasons with >100 QB Rating, etc.)

You know, I read an article somewhere that I can't remember, talking about how while the 70's were a very run heavy era, prior to that there was quite a lot of passing. It's just that most of today's football commentators played/grew up watching football in the 70's so that is what is thought of as "old football" today. Granted, there wasn't all the short passing that there is today, but the football of the past wasn't as run oriented as we sometimes think was the general point.

I wish I could remember where I read that.


Here's a good recent rant about the QB rating system

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...tem/index.html
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post #141 of 287
Thread Starter 
This is not going well. 3 INTS, McNabb in the locker getting X-rays, 7 to 3. At least the D is holding up. Ugh...Is it 2008 yet?


Edit: Well they won, but it wasn't pretty. I will say the defense was really good. That's two consecutive games with 4 down goal line stands. McNabb sucked and I think he used his injury to bail out. Feeley was a little better, but not much. And once again, Westbrook proved he should be considered among the top running backs in the league.

Oh, and....

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post #142 of 287
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

McNabb sucked and I think he used his injury to bail out.

Well, my conspiracy theory is that they told McNabb: "We're taking you out if you don't get the first down." Thus giving him the opportunity to come out with an "injury." I don't think he would have bailed on his own, but it was either that or get benched.
The question is: what do they do next week?
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post #143 of 287
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bageljoey View Post

Well, my conspiracy theory is that they told McNabb: "We're taking you out if you don't get the first down." Thus giving him the opportunity to come out with an "injury." I don't think he would have bailed on his own, but it was either that or get benched.
The question is: what do they do next week?

If he's OK they'll keep him. I really don't think they were going to bench him. I think he was slightly injured and they left it up to him, and he called it a day. We'll see.
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post #144 of 287
...is still a win!

Didn't get to see the game, and haven't caught the highlights yet, but it sounds like McNabb was having a horrible day before he got hurt. Is Miami's defense that good, or was he that bad? I think the injury was real, no coach in his right mind would start Feely on a regular basis if he has a choice. Nice game by Westbrook, hopefully he'll start getting the recognition he deserves.

Nice to see the Eagles finally running the ball like I thought they could, but it took an injury to McNabb to do it. \
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post #145 of 287
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by iPoster View Post

...is still a win!

Didn't get to see the game, and haven't caught the highlights yet, but it sounds like McNabb was having a horrible day before he got hurt. Is Miami's defense that good, or was he that bad? I think the injury was real, no coach in his right mind would start Feely on a regular basis if he has a choice. Nice game by Westbrook, hopefully he'll start getting the recognition he deserves.

Nice to see the Eagles finally running the ball like I thought they could, but it took an injury to McNabb to do it. \

He was pretty bad. He did have a nice throw on the flea flicker that called back (it was a TD). He also ran a few times well. But his accuracy was pathetic. The weather really messed them up, as Feeley through one too. Once it got better, things started moving. And you're right, the run really helped.

I think Donovan will play next week as he was walking yesterday OK. It sounds like they really didn't want him to go in as Andy said he couldn't run on it. I'll take him at his word.

How to beat the Patriots? I think the only chance is to run, run, run and run some more. Consume the clock and keep Brady off the field. And the offense is still going to have to score 35 points to even have a chance. If you couple that with a few big plays on offense and defense (and some luck), they have a shot. But if Brady gets the time he wants, if people make stupid mistakes, blow routes and coverages, that's it. The Eagles need to be at their best. The Patriots need to have a game that's a little off.

But I'll be drunk and eating wings, so I'll feel good either way.
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post #146 of 287
Quote:
It was pretty much impossible to make a statement by beating the now 0-10 Dolphins and, sure enough, the Eagles didn't.

Primarily, they succeeded in further bloodying the shark-infested waters that surround their quarterback.


That was from Les Bowen of the Phila Daily News. I think sums up my thinking...
I don't even know what to hope for now...

Quote:
"It's a lot better than being 4-6," offered coach Andy Reid, when asked about being 5-5.

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post #147 of 287
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bageljoey View Post


That was from Les Bowen of the Phila Daily News. I think sums up my thinking...
I don't even know what to hope for now...


Well, in fairness I think the Dolphins are better than their record indicates. If you look at that game, the score could have easily been 27 to 7 with the called back play. The conditions were bad too. No excuses though, McNabb didn't play well when he was in. The positives for me were defense and Westbrook.

Right now I see them going 9-7 on the year and likely missing the playoffs. That said, the rest of the NFC is so bad, they might sneak in.

Biggest concern? Special teams. They would be 7-3 right now with good special teams. The defense is getting old too, and that needs to be addressed. I would also be looking for another star wide receiver. They are not bad, but they need that go-to guy.

Funny enough, I am now more confident that McNabb will be back next year, providing he is healthy. That would give Kolb another year to get ready, learn the system, and maybe get some reps. If McNabb tanks, he could be pulled. Who knows.
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post #148 of 287
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Right now I see them going 9-7 on the year and likely missing the playoffs. That said, the rest of the NFC is so bad, they might sneak in.

I predict 7-9. No playoffs this year.
post #149 of 287
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cake View Post

I predict 7-9. No playoffs this year.

They won't lose 4 more games, at least I don't think so.

Patriots--L
Seahawks--W
Giants--W
Cowboys--L
Saints--W
Bills --W

Yes, I think we can beat the Seahawks and Giants. Neither is guaranteed and could easily go the other way. But I think they are capable.
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post #150 of 287
Seattle is beginning to warm up. I hope your pass defense is ready...
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post #151 of 287
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guybrush Threepwood View Post

Seattle is beginning to warm up. I hope your pass defense is ready...

Yeah I know. My feeling right now though is that the Eagles can beat all but the Cowboys and Patriots coming up, if they play their best and catch a few breaks. God knows they are due.
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post #152 of 287
Thread Starter 
Predictions for tomorrow?

My best shot: Patriots 41, Eagles 14

If the Eagles play really well and the Pats make some mistakes: Pats 35, Eagles 24

If there is a miracle: Pats 31, Eagles 28

If the sun explodes: Eagles 35, Pats 34
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post #153 of 287
To quote Han Solo:

"I've got a really bad feeling about this!"



Hopefully this can be the Patsies' 'trap game'...
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post #154 of 287
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by iPoster View Post

To quote Han Solo:

"I've got a really bad feeling about this!"



Hopefully this can be the Patsies' 'trap game'...

You and me both, friend.

I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #155 of 287
We fuckin' won!

Oh man, it feels good to win after watching your team get manhandled 8 weeks in a row.

Frank Gore is back!
"If I had played my career hitting singles like Pete (Rose), I'd wear a dress." - Mickey Mantle
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"If I had played my career hitting singles like Pete (Rose), I'd wear a dress." - Mickey Mantle
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post #156 of 287
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guybrush Threepwood View Post


Frank Gore is back!

A San Francisco fan? Funny how there's so many fewer of you in the 2000's than the 1990's.

Nice to get a top player back, now McNabb is out for the Patriots...ugh.
You need skeptics, especially when the science gets very big and monolithic. -James Lovelock
The Story of Stuff
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You need skeptics, especially when the science gets very big and monolithic. -James Lovelock
The Story of Stuff
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post #157 of 287
It's not gonna be pretty tonight.
post #158 of 287
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShawnJ View Post

It's not gonna be pretty tonight.

Then again...
Progress is a comfortable disease
--e.e.c.
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Progress is a comfortable disease
--e.e.c.
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post #159 of 287
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShawnJ View Post

It's not gonna be pretty tonight.

Yet, the first half is fairly lovely for Eagles fans.

I'm often bored watching the Patriots play and I'm no fan of Brady or Belichick, but my hatred for the Eagles is being put aside tonight because I'd love to see someone spoil the Patriots perfect record.

I don't think, in the end, that the Eagles will pull it off, but it's been a fun game so far.

Feeley is signed through 2010. - Could Feeley replace McNabb next season?
post #160 of 287
Holy crap!

Has anyone had a lead on the Patriots in the 4th quarter this year?
Progress is a comfortable disease
--e.e.c.
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Progress is a comfortable disease
--e.e.c.
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