iPhone Review Series: iPhone vs. Palm Treo 650 - Page 2

Yeah the Apple faithful always apologize for Apple and let us know what we really "don't need" they have more excuses than a pregnant Nun.

If the phone was on par price wise with other smart phones then you can make excuses but not when its 700.00 before you get out the door with tax and accessories.

This is why Verizon told Apple to get lost it just wasn't worth it to them, smart phones on average are mostly for corporate use, yes people with a over inflated self worth that feel the need to be connected all the time buy them also but as a rule Apple has never made a dent in the corporate world with anything.

The simple fact is Apple has had a great two years not because of Apple but because of the Intel name and the fact you can now install Windows on Apple hardware to make up for the lack of OsX third party apps.

You can just go down the line. Apple TV is a joke, new iMac met with very mixed reivew even though I like them, iLife 08 , imovie has been getting killed, iWorks, yeah thats really going to replace office, and while we are talking about office how about leaving in the VBA extentions for Excel.

The fact is Apple makes a good stable product most of the time, and people like the way their stuff looks. Their OS is fairly soild and if your going to work with images and movies then a Apple product works quite well. However if you actually need to interact with the other 96% of the world that uses MS based products and third party software that support that OS then a mac or any Apple product is going to fall short of expectations, in many cases very short.

Apple makes products that work well with other Apple products and apps however they fall very short on having them work well with the rest of the world.

The iphone will be no different and for the exception of ipods Apple will never have any real market share of anything. The only reason ipods have such a huge market share is they are mostly used by windows users.

People can debate this tell me im full of shit but 30 years of history is hard to dispute.

Having the ability to use 3rd party apps in of itself is great, but the usefulness of those apps need to start from a great OS and a great UI design. This is the start for the iPhone building a stong OS and UI foundation.

But no I won't be installing hacks into my iPhone.

wow, maybe I should trade mine for a car and then just buy another one and unlock it? Even with the shortage of TurboSIMs, I could ruin a heck of a lot of phones trying to solder-unlock them for that much money. People have already figured out how to do it without soldering using pins.

Looks like you might be on a "SERO" plan, which is not generally available. Look on sprint.com for their general prices and you'll find: 450 minutes @ $39.95/month and unlimited data for $39.95/month. iPhone from AT&T is $59.99/month for 450 roll-over minutes, unlimited data and 200 SMS.

Someone already put this out there:

http://iphone.share.googlepages.com/index.html

Not sure how many developers will follow that. but a lot of the 3rd party apps I've used have a pretty decent interface (even if they don't work too well yet).

That's not necessarily true.


Intel's name has had more to do with Apple's success? I know of very few people who run Windows on their Mac.


What you miss is that Apple supports open standards and does not work to support MS propreitary lock in standards.

It simply is true. For example, go to sprint.com and you'll find: 450 minutes @ $39.99/month and unlimited data for $39.99/month. iPhone from AT&T is $59.99/month for 450 roll-over minutes, unlimited data and 200 SMS. Go to AT&T, price any other smart phone, and you'll find a comparable voice + data plan for $79.99/month. All prices are before taxes and fees, which add even more to the iPhone price advantage.

Believe what you want. I was using it on the Toronto Hydro OneZone service on a rooftop patio in downtown Toronto quite well the other day. I've also used it in various hotels on their complementary WiFi and the speed is just fine.

I've also been considering getting WiMax so that I can get WiFi almost anywhere in Canada.

The day the iPhone or the new iPod (to be released) do this, we will make a large purchase for our University staff and students:

http://www.igo.com/product.asp?sku=2352927

Check the 30 seconds video at:

http://www.uvouch.com/video-No-Bagga...mercial-146935

That's not for sale here in the US. That's what I mean by not generally available. The legal questions of selling it here is preventing it from getting to the 99.9999% of the iPhone users that exist now.

By the way, here are instructions for installing the $80 device, should you be able to get it:


Not for the fainthearted.


That is not a general installer. This is it:

http://iphone.nullriver.com/beta/

To download the file, and see intructions to install, go here:

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/hands_on-...red-291184.php

GUI program.
Once SFTP is installed (which the above-linked program does with one button click), then you can use your favorite SFTP client to install apps. I perfer Transmit for Mac, but there are programs for Windows as well.


Where did you read that they are taking orders? I doubt it.

This is the latest info on that that I've seen:

http://arstechnica.com/journals/appl...iphone-unlocks

Uhh..no. The Sprint Power Pack 450 is actually $39.99 per month...and then you add the Sprint Power Vision Access Pack for only another $15 per month. This includes unlimited data as well as lots of other goodies from Sprint, all for only $54.99 per month.

I pay $15 a month for unlimited data on Sprint, as does everyone else I know.

If you're interested in web browsing, then compare browsing speed, not raw download speed. EDGE typically provides perfectly adequate speed for web browsing. The iPhone has a faster processor than every 3G smart phone now on the market, which makes up for some of the relative slowness of EDGE itself. The kicker is that even in situations when the user must wait longer for a page to load on an iPhone, they are virtually guaranteed the page with be rendered accurately and be usable. This can not be said at all of every other smart phone, where most pages look awful and are virtually unusable. Panning and zooming on the iPhone are also far easier than on any other smart phone. I use the Internet 10X more on my iPhone than on any of my previous smart phones (HTC 8525, Treo 750, Treo 700p, Treo 650). I won't even bother listing all of the iPaqs with Wi-Fi I've gone through with their cr@p browsers. The iPhone works, so you can too.

No. If YOU go to Sprint, you will see that unlimited data is $15 a month, which is what I pay.

I'm not denying that you can FIND spots. But, you can't just whip out your phone and have it, like I can, with my 3G.

Go to sprint.com. Unlimited data is $39.99/month.

EDGE is more widely available in the U.S. than 3G.

You are not reading what i wrote.

My Treo with Sprint has MUCH faster download times as compared to the iPhone on ATT. I've compared these speeds with a friend and his iPhone, downloading the same sites.

His phone is simply much slower. This isn't a guess on my part, as it is on yours. You are also ignoring all that has been written about this. no one ever says that it is fast. Some have said that it isn't too bad, which isn't the same thing as saying that it is good.

If you are willing to put up with the slow service, then fine. Many of us are not.

Only for ATT. Sprint and Verizon have wider deployment of 3G than ATT.


The problem is that Sprints website is difficult to navigate. They don't simply list their plans clearly.

You're wrong again. This is really silly. Both Sprint and Verison have 3G all over the country. Of the big three, only ATT has limited 3G service.

It's really annoying to read this nonsense.

The on-line price for a Treo 700p from VerizonWireless is $400, and the monthly service plan including 450 minutes and unlimited data is $80/month, plus taxes and fees. With the $20/month savings on the iPhone's $60/month service, over 2 years of the contract, the $200 extra cost of an 8 GB iPhone (plus tax) and the $175 Verizon early termination fee are all more than paid for.

Both Sprint and Verison give Treo 700p's for $299 with a two year contract.

You haven't been reading the prices people have said they are paying.

Try Sprints site as well.

Your prices are overblown.

It's also cute the way you put "taxes and fees" onto Verisons' prices, but not on ATTs'. Good going. That will fool everyone.

Try 1xRTT (brown, slower than EDGE) over much of the country, with 3G (yellow) in major metropolitan areas and along many major thoroughfares. ;-)

http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/m...ilitypopup.jsp

Interesting, try playing a video bought from iTunes with any player other than what Apple makes. And up until recently all music bought was the same.

What exactly are these proprietary lock in standards that MS has but Apple does not have. Both companies use DRM in their media offerings. Both companies fail to release SDKs for the products they sell that they want kept closed. iWork 08 uses it's own format, just like Office.

How about the Apple display connector? remember that? Apple monitors ONLY working with Apple computers.

And if Apple is so open, why can I only run Mac OS X on a Apple computer instead of any machine I choose?

Listen, you like Apple stuff fine. But that whole MS Bad, Apple good crap should stay locked away in 1995 where it belongs.

I had that a while ago, and it's faster than ATT's EDGE.

Try Sprints site.

I can, I just choose not to because I don't want to pay a large monthly fee for a cellular data plan on top of my home internet service. Especially since I wouldn't use it half as much.

$15 is not such a "large" monthly fee.

Was it you or Foo2 who also spoke about paying the "small" monthly fees to use the various WiFi spots?

Since both of you are complaining about costs, it seems a bit odd that either one of you would consider paying anything extra for a very limited use.

Oh, and you never did respond to the things that I can do with my phone that you can't do with yours. I assumed that you would have.

I already have it. And it shouldn't take too long for a GUI app to appear...


So there you go. 2 minutes of research and you found something easy to use.


Didn't know that. All I read was what was on their website. I'm assuming that the software or method will be leaked at some point. It's only a matter of time...

It is here in Canada (given no unlimited data plan exists). And, like I said, I typically don't use those pay hotspots.


One month after people figured out how to build and install apps on the iPhone and you're trying to hold that over my head. Gimme a break... ask me again in a few months. Even if Apple had released an SDK you wouldn't have all your apps available yet and you'd still be complaining.

Check the historical price of AAPL. You'll find the price actually declined for 6+ months after the initial deliveries of Intel-based hardware. Apple has actually had a great decade, since Jobs returned. The biggest down-turns were the dot-com and 9/11 issues, followed by the Intel transition.

If usability by Windows users is the criterion that determines a product's success, then the iPhone will be a success as well as the iPod has been.

What open source DRM do you suggest Apple should use?


Too numerous to count them all. But example: H.264 vs VC-1, AAC vs WMA, OpenGL vs Direct X, Unix vs NT, IMAP vs Exchange


That was a proprietary experiement for Apple but it did not last long.


That has nothing to do with supporting open standards.


I didn't specifically say Apple good - MS bad. But it is simply fact that Apple supports more open standards while MS builds its own standards to lock customers into its products.

Or you could get a Treo 755p from Sprint for $199 and get a monthly service plan with unlimited data for $55.

Oh...and the $39.99 data plan from Sprint that you keep referring to is for laptops with mobile broadband cards.

It's still dubiously legal there, and pretty much so here.


Well, if you think the general iPhone using public will think that's easy, you're nuts.


So far, all of this stuff is questionable, at best. And it isn't even known if it exists, as no one has seen it.

Try the Wikipedia:

"1xRTT almost doubles the capacity of IS-95 by adding 64 more traffic channels to the forward link, orthogonal to (in quadrature with) the original set of 64. Although capable of higher data rates, most deployments are limited to a peak of 144 kbit/s."

"EDGE can carry data speeds up to 236.8 kbit/s for 4 timeslots (theoretical maximum is 473.6 kbit/s for 8 timeslots) in packet mode and will therefore meet the International Telecommunications Union's requirement for a 3G network, and has been accepted by the ITU as part of the IMT-2000 family of 3G standards."

no, you can't. First of all, the phone isn't available up there from any ervice. If you have one, then you are doing so with a questionably legal device.

Second of all, you are not using the Visual Voicemail that has been considered to be one of the iPhones best features. If not, then you can't complain about some of the Treo's lapses. One makes up for the other.

But, I was, as you now, referring to WiFi. No matter what you say, it is nowhere as available as my 3G is. If you are not willing to pay for 3G anyway, then talking about high speed service makes no sense at all. For those of us who are willing to pay, which is just about all of us who want data services, 3G trumps WiFi right now no matter what light you put on it.

I didn't write AT&T's "Fine EDGE" was faster than 3G. I wrote that the speed of EDGE on the iPhone was perfectly adequate for most browsing, that raw download measures are not necessarily accurate measures of browsing speed, and that the iPhone's browsing speed was enhanced by its fast microprocessor. I should know. In recent years I've burned through a Treo 650, 700p, 750 and HTC 8525, all accessorized with essential reserve batteries.

If you are willing to put up with a cell phone that downloads even at gigabit/second speed but comes with a cr@p web browser, cr@p html e-mail and cr@p UI, then fine. Many of us are not.

There is little room or reason to argue Foo2. EDGE is clearly slower than Sprint's EVDO. There is no room for argument.

Which is why I see cellular unlocking companies in most major shopping centers here. I'd think the police would shut them down much sooner than they'd come breaking down my door.


There's a GUI program with instructions for installing it now. Those instructions you posted are out of date. Like I said, this is all new, so it's just a matter of time.


Engadget already reported that they'd seen it. So I'm pretty sure it exists.

I for one am not touching any of that stuff.

And Pocket IE is unusable for most of the WWW. There is no room for argument.