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A True Desktop Class Mac, or another Cube? - Page 10

Poll Results: Cube or Desktop.

This is a multiple choice poll
  • 35% (44)
    CUBE
  • 58% (72)
    True Desktop
  • 6% (8)
    Something I'll explain.
124 Total Votes  
post #361 of 647


Well, I'm a little surprised no one has mentioned the recent OS news, and how it affects this discussion. Leopard requires a GHz G4 minimum to install. My office G4 has a 733 MHz G4. Further down the road, Mac OS 10.6 will only run on Intel processors, but that is over two years from now most likely.

For me, this news means I've got a purchase decission to make in the near future. I can get along with Tiger for a while, but I'll likely buy another Mac within six months. Will it be a new Mac prosumer tower? I have my doubts that Apple would build one by then, but if one existed that would be my first choice I believe -- not for the office, but to replace the G5 PowerMac for gaming and software development. My dual 1.25 GHz G4 that runs Logic Studio 8 will be okay for a few more years.

Since Apple shows no sign of building a prosumer mini tower Mac, I will be buying a used MacPro from eBay. Now some may say I should get an iMac for the office. Yet, I don't think that's a good idea. I want a large screen display, so it would be a pricey iMac, and I don't need current iMac performance in the office. A used MacPro is a far better choice, and then use it for games and software development.

post #362 of 647
I don't think the iMac is a bad machine at all, apart from its '3 years ago' PC gaming performance.

I still want that midi.

Lemon BOn Bon.

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

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You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply
post #363 of 647
I think apple offering refurbished machines is great. I bought my 2.33 mbp that way and I love it. It didn't have 1 dead pixel. It runs great. It comes with the same exact warranty as a brad new one... but with 15-19% off of msrp. So what's the downside to a refurb? The box it comes in.

I won't buy a used machine ever again. I don't care how desperate I am. There is just no telling what the hell that machine has gone through before you received it. And a refurbed machine is about the same price as a used machine on ebay.

Snoopy, hopefully by then the penryn mac pros will be out and the refurb price will drop a little bit on the mac pros.

 

 

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post #364 of 647
Quote:
Originally Posted by emig647 View Post

I think apple offering refurbished machines is great. I bought my 2.33 mbp that way and I love it. It didn't have 1 dead pixel. It runs great. It comes with the same exact warranty as a brad new one... but with 15-19% off of msrp. So what's the downside to a refurb? The box it comes in.

I won't buy a used machine ever again. I don't care how desperate I am. There is just no telling what the hell that machine has gone through before you received it. And a refurbed machine is about the same price as a used machine on ebay.

Snoopy, hopefully by then the penryn mac pros will be out and the refurb price will drop a little bit on the mac pros.

Where do the machines that Apple refurbishes come from? Aren't they used machines?
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post #365 of 647
Quote:
Originally Posted by sequitur View Post

Where do the machines that Apple refurbishes come from? Aren't they used machines?

Machines get returned after purchase for minor defects, or because one part is defective (like a hard drive or power supply.) Sometimes, a husband has to return his MacBook Pro because the wife has vetoed the purchase.

If there's a defect, it's repaired or a new part swapped out, and the machine again goes through quality checks. If it passes, it's sold as a 'refurbished' product.
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post #366 of 647
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

Machines get returned after purchase for minor defects, or because one part is defective (like a hard drive or power supply.) Sometimes, a husband has to return his MacBook Pro because the wife has vetoed the purchase.

If there's a defect, it's repaired or a new part swapped out, and the machine again goes through quality checks. If it passes, it's sold as a 'refurbished' product.


I've had an Apple hard drive to go bad about 3 months after I purchased the Mac from Apple and Apple didn't give me a new computer, they replaced the hard drive. A power supply would also be replaceable. So if they can replace a part under warranty, and not have to give you a new computer, then the question still remains "Where does Apple get the computers they sell as refurbished?"
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post #367 of 647
"3 months after" is very different from "the day after" the purchase.
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post #368 of 647
Not only that but apple's refurbed machines are also the 14 day returns. They can't resell the computer as brand new if it has been used at all. So it is sent back to apple where they recheck / test it and sell it as a refurb. That is part of the reason there is a restocking fee, to offset the refurbished price drop.

 

 

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post #369 of 647
Quote:
Originally Posted by emig647 View Post

Not only that but apple's refurbed machines are also the 14 day returns. They can't resell the computer as brand new if it has been used at all. So it is sent back to apple where they recheck / test it and sell it as a refurb. That is part of the reason there is a restocking fee, to offset the refurbished price drop.

I am so happy that you mentioned the restocking fee. Most people on this forum quote the "14 day" rule as if they never read the small print. It's not like Sears used to be. Now even Sears will slap a restocking fee on you. At least they did on me.
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post #370 of 647
Thread Starter 
I dont see how this got so far off topic, but let's get back to it.
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post #371 of 647
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlooker View Post

I dont see how this got so far off topic, but let's get back to it.

OK. Here's the original post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by onlooker View Post

So the question is would you prefer:

A) Another Cube, or pretty much locked down non upgradable Mac that's just a little bigger than the mini.


B) Or a smaller desktop that falls between the iMac, and Mac Pro with Desktop Class parts, Upgradable graphics slot, and HD's Just not as excessive as the Mac Pro?

Something closer in size to this.

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post #372 of 647
B in a landslide.
just waiting to be included in one of Apple's target markets.
Don't get me wrong, I like the flat panel iMac, actually own an iMac, and I like the Mac mini, but...........
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just waiting to be included in one of Apple's target markets.
Don't get me wrong, I like the flat panel iMac, actually own an iMac, and I like the Mac mini, but...........
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post #373 of 647
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickag View Post

B in a landslide.

Since it has been slow long since I voted, I think I'll vote again.

"B" in an avalanche!
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post #374 of 647
"B"
"A" is too short to put on the floor, which is where I keep my current computer. That keeps the wires and other clutter off my already cluttered desk. A would take up valuable desktop realestate, though it would be easier to access the Superdrive. Besides, I'm guessing the "B" design is easier to work on and keep components cool.
post #375 of 647
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aflaaak View Post

"B"
"A" is too short to put on the floor, which is where I keep my current computer. That keeps the wires and other clutter off my already cluttered desk. A would take up valuable desktop realestate, though it would be easier to access the Superdrive. Besides, I'm guessing the "B" design is easier to work on and keep components cool.

Your post hit me right between the eyes. I've wanted a cube (updated) since I started using a Mac. I love the elegant look. After reading your post, I realize I don't have desk space for it. Two large monitors and other stuff I need on my desk take up all available space. I've tried (mentally) rearranging stuff, but I've concluded there's no way to put that much wanted cube where I could see it and purr over it like Duddits. I'd have to put it on the floor - what a shame.

Does that mean I don't want a cube? Not at all. However, at this point, I'd prefer anything rather than an AIO or a Pro Mac. I know that's not going to happen, but I can dream, can't I.

I love this forum. I can expound on computers (as little as I know about them) to my heart's content. Not many in my circle of friends and acquaintances would listen to computer stuff (not much, anyway). Maybe no one on this forum hears me either, but I pretend that they do. I wonder if many AI members appreciate AI as much as I do.
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post #376 of 647
I recently saw a Dell 'slim shady' tower at a mall with a Dell kiosk. They do look nice. Not a bad form factor at all.
post #377 of 647
Quote:
Originally Posted by sequitur View Post

Your post hit me right between the eyes. I've wanted a cube (updated) since I started using a Mac. I love the elegant look. After reading your post, I realize I don't have desk space for it. Two large monitors and other stuff I need on my desk take up all available space. I've tried (mentally) rearranging stuff, but I've concluded there's no way to put that much wanted cube where I could see it and purr over it like Duddits. I'd have to put it on the floor - what a shame.

Does that mean I don't want a cube? Not at all. However, at this point, I'd prefer anything rather than an AIO or a Pro Mac. I know that's not going to happen, but I can dream, can't I.

I love this forum. I can expound on computers (as little as I know about them) to my heart's content. Not many in my circle of friends and acquaintances would listen to computer stuff (not much, anyway). Maybe no one on this forum hears me either, but I pretend that they do. I wonder if many AI members appreciate AI as much as I do.

As soon as I read your reply, I realized that one could put The Cube on a Cube Stand (another thing the multitude of aftermarket iPod acessory makers could build). That would get it off the desk and high enough to pop CDs in and out. Still, I think the larger size of the Dell style tower gives the components more room to breath, and makes changing/adding parts easier, and to me that's an important reason to get the tower (over an iMac) in the first place.

I agree, AI is pretty cool. I have no one to talk computers with either. Family and friends rely on me for info and just use their machines and forget about it. The thing I like about AI too is the friendly atmosphere. Nobody gives me the slightest grief when I reviel I don't even use an Apple (yet)!
post #378 of 647
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickag View Post

B in a landslide.

Here'S a new design from Isamu Sanada. It's big: Mac Pro replacement, but the design (black/alu) is interesting.



More images at http://www.apple-style.com/laborator...ro_070919.html
post #379 of 647
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjteix View Post

Here'S a new design from Isamu Sanada. It's big: Mac Pro replacement, but the design (black/alu) is interesting.



More images at http://www.apple-style.com/laborator...ro_070919.html

That os freakin' awesome.
post #380 of 647
The cheese grater/wind tunnel design is more practical. But yes, that mockup rocks.
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post #381 of 647
That looks very good! Come on Apple bring us a REAL computer in a nice box!!
post #382 of 647
Quote:
Originally Posted by jteix View Post

Here'S a new design from Isamu Sanada. It's big: Mac Pro replacement, but the design (black/alu) is interesting.
...

That is a great design. Wonder what it would look like inside after Apple did their magic. awesome.
just waiting to be included in one of Apple's target markets.
Don't get me wrong, I like the flat panel iMac, actually own an iMac, and I like the Mac mini, but...........
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just waiting to be included in one of Apple's target markets.
Don't get me wrong, I like the flat panel iMac, actually own an iMac, and I like the Mac mini, but...........
Reply
post #383 of 647
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjteix View Post

Here'S a new design from Isamu Sanada. It's big: Mac Pro replacement, but the design (black/alu) is interesting.



More images at http://www.apple-style.com/laborator...ro_070919.html

Wow! Too bad the upcoming October announcements won't include that and it's 2/3 size little brother, mini-tower.
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post #384 of 647
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenRoethig View Post

That os freakin' awesome.

Venting and Heat issues would be a major set back.

The practical design of the Cheese Grater is that it benefits from many natural air flow coolent options.

Convective Heat Transfer on that box would require more fans. More fans means more wiring and more mess.
post #385 of 647
Thread Starter 
That mockup isn't too bad.
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post #386 of 647
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aflaaak View Post

As soon as I read your reply, I realized that one could put The Cube on a Cube Stand (another thing the multitude of aftermarket iPod acessory makers could build). That would get it off the desk and high enough to pop CDs in and out. Still, I think the larger size of the Dell style tower gives the components more room to breath, and makes changing/adding parts easier, and to me that's an important reason to get the tower (over an iMac) in the first place.

I agree, AI is pretty cool. I have no one to talk computers with either. Family and friends rely on me for info and just use their machines and forget about it. The thing I like about AI too is the friendly atmosphere. Nobody gives me the slightest grief when I reviel I don't even use an Apple (yet)!

The "cube stand" is a possibility. I just thought of another one. I have a monitor "arm" that I haven't used since I started using larger (panel) displays. I'm thinking of clipping it back on my desk and using it to hold a mini (or a mini-tower). A smaller computer, sitting on the arm tray could be positioned just about anywhere the arm could reach - even above one of my monitors. When not needed to insert a CD or DVD, it could be pushed aside or ____.
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post #387 of 647
Thread Starter 
Well I still vote for B.

I've had it with the "smaller AIO, and cofined non-upgradable computers are better" design strategy of Apple. It's freaking old. It's was a nice vacation, but lets get back to the real world Apple.
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post #388 of 647
Quote:
Originally Posted by sequitur View Post

The "cube stand" is a possibility. I just thought of another one. I have a monitor "arm" that I haven't used since I started using larger (panel) displays. I'm thinking of clipping it back on my desk and using it to hold a mini (or a mini-tower). A smaller computer, sitting on the arm tray could be positioned just about anywhere the arm could reach - even above one of my monitors. When not needed to insert a CD or DVD, it could be pushed aside or ____.

What about the Octopus of wires dangling out the back?
post #389 of 647
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aflaaak View Post

What about the Octopus of wires dangling out the back?

Screw that. It looks pretty.

Lemon Bon Bon.

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

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You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply
post #390 of 647
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aflaaak View Post

What about the Octopus of wires dangling out the back?

Somewhere, I saw a colorful, flexible tube that you run wires through. After you have the wires in, you pull on the ends and the woven plastic tube tightens up around the wires. I haven't needed anything like that since my monitors hide the cables behind them.
But you do have a point. Maybe a stand would fit the bill. Or how about a desk 'clip on' that hangs down beside the desk or under it? I think something like that already exists.
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post #391 of 647
It's similar to an Apple design, I'd be led to believe the Mac Pros would still consist their "4 handle" shape.
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post #392 of 647
Thread Starter 
Double Post.
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post #393 of 647
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chamberlain View Post

It's similar to an Apple design, I'd be led to believe the Mac Pros would still consist their "4 handle" shape.

Absolutely. I don't see the Mac Pro giving up any size, but that mini tower mockup has me wondering what is up with Apple?
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post #394 of 647
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlooker View Post

Well I still vote for B.

I've had it with the "smaller AIO, and cofined non-upgradable computers are better" design strategy of Apple. It's freaking old. It's was a nice vacation, but lets get back to the real world Apple.

Yes, the consumer market loves to have huge wiry boxes on their desks.

Point in case, the Mac Pro has always been quite upgradable, room for up to 12 GB RAM etc. etc. The Mac Pro was never striving to be smaller, because it's not a consumer product, it's the professional beast.

I have the Windtunnel, and it's big, loud and obtrusve. My father could've gotten a cleaner, quieter, and much much smaller (and less upgradable) iMac G5. But apparently, Pro customers don't care about looks. =S
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post #395 of 647
I just got this deal in my inbox this morning and I thought I'd share it just to let people see how far off Apple's iMacs are relative to the rest of the market:

http://www.dabs.com/ProductView.aspx?Quicklinx=4ms4

2.4GHz Core 2 Quad
2GB Ram
320GB HD
DVD+RW
comes with a pocket 80GB drive - the value of one of those is about £80

£661

I don't know the graphics capability but it's a tower so that's not a problem

Compare to the lowest end iMac:

2GHz Core 2 Duo
2GB Ram
320GB HD
superdrive
no extras

£918

So even if you take out the screen and save maybe £250, you still get slower dual processors for the same price. The whole thing with the PPC is going to happen all over again. Why are we paying so much more for machines that are still slower than PCs? I really don't mind paying more for machines that match. I would happily buy that same machine from Apple without the pocket drive for £899 in a nice case.

Oh yeah and I was in an Apple Store recently and the iMac screens still suck and I won't be getting one. Way too shiny. Changing lighting conditions won't help because my PSP is the same with its glossy screen. I actually have to play it in near pitch black.
post #396 of 647
It's not so much that Apple are off with the iMac. Look at any COMPARABLE all in one from the PC sector? You'll be pleasantly surprised. Apple is whizzing on them with the iMac.

However, I think what you're getting at, if Apple filled in the MISSING sector in their desktop line up ie consumer tower line which is er...millions and millions of PCs...a big market...then...

They could reach or be competitive with the products you're listing. Because the Mac Pro isn't it. We're missing one desktop machine. It's obvious. It's gaping. It's a hole. It needs filling...it...!

However, if you're talking workstations? Then...yes...Apples to Apples...It's nearly competitive with big vendors (HP. Dell...) on price if you compare like with like ie workstations. eg Dell. Where's the gpu we need? Where's the 8800gtx and more workstation class GPUS? Looks up at sky. Apple has the recent cpus. But the gpu provision is mystifying. I can only guess that Leopard will see an end to the insanity. But you're not talking workstations. You're talking consumer tower territory.

With the machines you're listing? Take note, many highstreet or vendor PC sellers don't offer 'good' gpus with their PCs. So you can stick on another £200-ish for that. But...

....go to 'Mesh' Computers online and you see towers with 4 gigs of ram, a GTS Nividia card and a quad 2.4 for about a grand-ish. It's not workstation Xeon territory...but...you probably get a monitor too and Apple has nothing for the 'gamer' prosumer who wants this and not a workstation class beast. Conroe would unlock a consumer tower. Whither?

I sympathise with your post. And many do.

Lemon Bon Bon.

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply
post #397 of 647
Quote:
Why are we paying so much more for machines that are still slower than PCs?

The answer is that the iMac is not the same as the computer you compared it to. Apple doesn't make that computer. Compare it to a PC AIO and the story will be different.
post #398 of 647
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

The answer is that the iMac is not the same as the computer you compared it to. Apple doesn't make that computer. Compare it to a PC AIO and the story will be different.

Yes, but that kills the point of earning ones trolling stripes.
post #399 of 647
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

So you paid $1100 for your G4? No, you didn't. Not at all. And dude...for $2000 you could get a machine that would make your G4 go running to its mama. Hell, a Macbook Pro would do that. So would an iMac. And certainly a low end Mac Pro.

I paid $1600 (CDN). The Mac Pro STARTS at $2800. (Don't even get me started on why it's still more in Canada, when our buck is worth more than the US dollar now.)

Quote:
Why, oh why, are you clamoring on about Real Desktop Parts (TM). The use of laptop components has worked out fine thus far in terms of price and performance. If you need the upgrade potential, you need a Pro machine LIKE YOU HAVE NOW.

No, I don't need a pro machine. I just need a user configurable, upgradable CONSUMER machine. If the Mac Pro started at $1600 or less, and wasn't so freaking huge, then you might have a point. As it is, you do not.

If I wanted a laptop, I'd BUY a laptop. I do not want a laptop that's chained to my desk. Desktop parts are cheaper, and offer better performance. They are a better value for the consumer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

I know we're on page 8 of this slugfest, but the simple fact is that Apple won't enter the Midtower market unless they have some 'angle' to it that makes an Apple tower look like it's worth $300. more than a Windows tower.

If it was ONLY a $300 premium, Apple would not be able to keep up with demand. If Apple announced such a product, I would order one within minutes of the announcement.
post #400 of 647
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemon Bon Bon. View Post

It's not so much that Apple are off with the iMac. Look at any COMPARABLE all in one from the PC sector? You'll be pleasantly surprised. Apple is whizzing on them with the iMac.

However, I think what you're getting at, if Apple filled in the MISSING sector in their desktop line up ie consumer tower line which is er...millions and millions of PCs...a big market...then...

Yeah that's right, I meant off in terms of what deals the market is offering not AIO vs tower. As far as AIOs go, I'd agree Apple's ones are better value than most although I prefer the design of Sony's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell

The answer is that the iMac is not the same as the computer you compared it to. Apple doesn't make that computer. Compare it to a PC AIO and the story will be different.

That's not really a suitable answer to that question though. If a PC users asked you why you paid so much for an iMac when you could have bought that PC tower, what will you say? I *wanted* an iMac? What if you didn't want an iMac and the PC user knew you were looking for a mid-tower, your only answer will have to be to concede that Apple's products just aren't good enough, which makes you look completely stupid.

If you had done what people here suggested and bought a Mac Pro then surely that would be ok right? Not really because then they'd say so how much was your 2.0GHz quad with 2GB Ram and you'd have to say £1700 at which point they'd still laugh at you. You could have had a quad 2.4GHz for over £1000 less.
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