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A True Desktop Class Mac, or another Cube? - Page 11

Poll Results: Cube or Desktop.

This is a multiple choice poll
  • 35% (44)
    CUBE
  • 58% (72)
    True Desktop
  • 6% (8)
    Something I'll explain.
124 Total Votes  
post #401 of 647
10/10/07 at 4:39pm
This article appeared in the November, 2007 issue of MacWorld. It originated from MW Forums.

"The mini is a great personal and business computer, inexpensive, powerful and inobtrusive.
Now Apple needs to gear up and bring out a small tower that will fit 2 hard drives, at least 4GB RAM and maybe a couple of slots. This would be the successor to the ill-fated Cube and the slightly younger brother to the Mac Pro."
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post #402 of 647
10/10/07 at 4:46pm
Thread Starter 
And most of us couldn't agree more. It surely explains this thread.
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post #403 of 647
10/10/07 at 5:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlooker View Post

And most of us couldn't agree more. It surely explains this thread.

Heh this thread??? What about the other 100 threads about the same topic? or the 100s of hijacked threads where it's one topic about games, or sales, or w/e and it turns into where is the headless mac thread . It is extremely obvious there is a VERY high interest in such a machine. Rest of you who don't believe that can go pound sand.

 

 

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The reason why they are analysts is because they failed at running businesses.

 

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The reason why they are analysts is because they failed at running businesses.

 

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post #404 of 647
10/10/07 at 9:08pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by emig647 View Post

pound sand.

What movie is that from. I can't remember?
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post #405 of 647
10/11/07 at 8:54am
Quote:
If you had done what people here suggested and bought a Mac Pro then surely that would be ok right? Not really because then they'd say so how much was your 2.0GHz quad with 2GB Ram and you'd have to say £1700 at which point they'd still laugh at you. You could have had a quad 2.4GHz for over £1000 less.



Lemon Bon Bon.
You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...[/
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post #406 of 647
10/11/07 at 8:56am
Quote:
Now Apple needs to gear up and bring out a small tower that will fit 2 hard drives, at least 4GB RAM and maybe a couple of slots. This would be the successor to the ill-fated Cube and the slightly younger brother to the Mac Pro."

Yeh... (Keeps watching the sky...)

Lemon Bon Bon.
You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...[/
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post #407 of 647
10/11/07 at 10:09am
I'm not a fan of any of the cube shaped concepts, a tower is what the consumer and pro markets are asking for, it's what Apple should give them.
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post #408 of 647
10/11/07 at 1:54pm
Quote:
If a PC users asked you why you paid so much for an iMac when you could have bought that PC tower, what will you say? I *wanted* an iMac?

Well....yeah. Even though you are not one of them there are people who do want the iMac and enjoy it.

Quote:
What if you didn't want an iMac and the PC user knew you were looking for a mid-tower, your only answer will have to be to concede that Apple's products just aren't good enough, which makes you look completely stupid.

Outside of your imagination I haven't yet seen anyone in this situation.
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post #409 of 647
10/11/07 at 3:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post


Outside of your imagination I haven't yet seen anyone in this situation.


Well, maybe you haven't met them in person, but you've seen plenty of their posts here on AI. As someone pointed out, a mid-tower just keeps coming up over and over for the past several years, and it's not because we have nothing else to discuss.

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post #410 of 647
10/11/07 at 5:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Outside of your imagination I haven't yet seen anyone in this situation.

That's the major problem at work here. Like many Mac users you ignore anything outside the confines of the group.
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post #411 of 647
10/11/07 at 9:18pm



In another thread, Kingston posted several URL's for mockups. One of them contained these pix of a mid tower. I WANT this computer or I'll throw a tantrum.
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post #412 of 647
10/11/07 at 9:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sequitur View Post




In another thread, Kingston posted several URL's for mockups. One of them contained these pix of a mid tower. I WANT this computer or I'll throw a tantrum.

One Word = Ventilation.

And yet, another word = white.

White is passe...
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post #413 of 647
10/12/07 at 2:03am
That machine looks very good and I would certainly buy one. I don't know if the price is a little unrealistic for the base spec but if the parts only add up to that great - desktop parts certainly are a good bit cheaper. I would be willing to pay up to the base iMac for that machine. This way the sales people can at least say when people ask about the iMac, well you get a 20" display with it for the same price. If the tower was much lower priced, most people would likely just get a cheap screen.

It would be good to know the dimensions though. If it's no more than 2/3 the size of a Mac Pro, that would be great. Weight is still an issue too if there are no handles. I guess Apple could always find a way to embed the handles into the case - this would keep the height down.
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post #414 of 647
10/12/07 at 5:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sequitur View Post




In another thread, Kingston posted several URL's for mockups. One of them contained these pix of a mid tower. I WANT this computer or I'll throw a tantrum.

3 changes and I would definitely buy it.

1. Mac Pro cheese grater design. It needs front airflow.

2. Move front ports to top of case above the optical drives. Those who choose to mount it on the floor (which is probably the majority) will have a hard time reaching them on the very bottom of the case.

3. Hard only two hard drives. Having four in there really isn't to scale.
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post #415 of 647
10/12/07 at 6:27am
Another great design. One may quibble with specifics, but for ease of use related to the interior and design elegance this would be hard to beat.

To bad we will never ever see this or any other such design. Jobs has made it absolutely clear in his AIO speech that consumers don't need any of these features. It's AIO or min forever.
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post #416 of 647
10/12/07 at 7:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickag View Post


It's AIO or min forever.


I'll wait for a three to four year old Mac Pro from eBay.

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post #417 of 647
10/12/07 at 7:48am
Yah, I'm getting pretty upset withi Jobs' stubburness. I place this squarely on his shoulders. I have friends at apple that have suggested desktop series macs only to be "shot down from high up". I think it's pretty sad when one person can be so opened minded as jobs and at the same time be so closed minded towards other things. Whether anyone wants to admit it or not, there is definitely some team / work design issues over at Apple. One of my closer friends works there a TON of hours (more than 45 a week), is hardly ever home, hasn't had a vacation in quite some time, and hardly has any time to do anything. If i'm lucky I'll get him on aim a few times a month.

I really believe the whole Apple team is completel stretched thin with this iPhone, iPod, AppleTV, OS X, macs, and w/e else they may be planning. I think it's a little unfair to the employees. Apple needs to hire more people. Expand. They are a bigger company than 5 years ago. Quit punishing your employees and quit using old mac designs. Honestly it took them how long to update the iMac?? Over 1 year? The MBP had the same parts inside (besides the graphics card / harddrive) for how long before the iMac came out? The iMac and MB are the only 2 computers that have received true updates in over 3 years. Sounds to me like even if they WANTED to design a new desktop it'd still take another x amount of years just because they are stretched so thin... ran by slave master Jobs.

 

 

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The reason why they are analysts is because they failed at running businesses.

 

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post #418 of 647
10/12/07 at 8:49am
Quote:
As someone pointed out, a mid-tower just keeps coming up over and over for the past several years, and it's not because we have nothing else to discuss.

But its mostly the same small group bringing up the issue. Most people on AI don't seem to care one way or the other.

Quote:
That's the major problem at work here. Like many Mac users you ignore anything outside the confines of the group.

No I have argued in the past that I see the usefulness of another Mac in the desktop line. At times the pro xMac people push their argument too far while ignoring other realities of the market and its direction. Only wanting to hear reasons that support the need for an xMac and going against any reason that an xMac is not necessary for Apple's future growth.
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post #419 of 647
10/12/07 at 9:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

But its mostly the same small group bringing up the issue. Most people on AI don't seem to care one way or the other.

It's not the same small group. It has been brought up by people who merely sign up just to talk about it and chime in with their 2 cents. Not to mention in all the other mac forums on the internet. I hardly believe the exact same small group you mentioned trolls the programming forums, the support forums, the desktop publishing forums, the audio forums, the gaming forums, the video forums, etc. Sure some of us are dispersed throughout them, but there are many others who concur with "the same small group".

 

 

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The reason why they are analysts is because they failed at running businesses.

 

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Quote:
The reason why they are analysts is because they failed at running businesses.

 

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post #420 of 647
10/12/07 at 9:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by emig647 View Post

Yah, I'm getting pretty upset withi Jobs' stubburness. I place this squarely on his shoulders. I have friends at apple that have suggested desktop series macs only to be "shot down from high up". I think it's pretty sad when one person can be so opened minded as jobs and at the same time be so closed minded towards other things. Whether anyone wants to admit it or not, there is definitely some team / work design issues over at Apple. One of my closer friends works there a TON of hours (more than 45 a week), is hardly ever home, hasn't had a vacation in quite some time, and hardly has any time to do anything. If i'm lucky I'll get him on aim a few times a month.

I really believe the whole Apple team is completel stretched thin with this iPhone, iPod, AppleTV, OS X, macs, and w/e else they may be planning. I think it's a little unfair to the employees. Apple needs to hire more people. Expand. They are a bigger company than 5 years ago. Quit punishing your employees and quit using old mac designs. Honestly it took them how long to update the iMac?? Over 1 year? The MBP had the same parts inside (besides the graphics card / harddrive) for how long before the iMac came out? The iMac and MB are the only 2 computers that have received true updates in over 3 years. Sounds to me like even if they WANTED to design a new desktop it'd still take another x amount of years just because they are stretched so thin... ran by slave master Jobs.

Although slightly off topic. I found that to be very true. In fact Apple are should rely a bit more on open source.
With the recent release of leopard, iPhone, Apple Tv and new ipod they have reach their work force limit.

And it is about time to hire more engineneer, I know quality engineer and programmer dont come easy. But they will need to them for the future.
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post #421 of 647
10/12/07 at 9:33am
Quote:
It's not the same small group. It has been brought up by people who merely sign up just to talk about it and chime in with their 2 cents.

There are lots of people who chime in with 1 or 2 posts, generally just to complain about something Apple has done or is not doing.

Of the people who post to AI regularly I see very few whom emphatically complain that Apple should make an xMac.
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post #422 of 647
10/12/07 at 10:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

But its mostly the same small group bringing up the issue. Most people on AI don't seem to care one way or the other.



No I have argued in the past that I see the usefulness of another Mac in the desktop line. At times the pro xMac people push their argument too far while ignoring other realities of the market and its direction. Only wanting to hear reasons that support the need for an xMac and going against any reason that an xMac is not necessary for Apple's future growth.

Maybe you think it's the same people, but on these blogs there were thousands of diggs.

An Open Letter To Steve Jobs
http://www.sendmike2space.com/

Wheres the Mac?
http://blogs.smugmug.com/don/2007/08/08/wheres-the-mac/
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post #423 of 647
10/12/07 at 11:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickag View Post

Maybe you think it's the same people, but on these blogs there were thousands of diggs.

An Open Letter To Steve Jobs
http://www.sendmike2space.com/

Wheres the Mac?
http://blogs.smugmug.com/don/2007/08/08/wheres-the-mac/

And I'm sure MANY of us didn't even know about those articles, like myself.

 

 

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The reason why they are analysts is because they failed at running businesses.

 

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The reason why they are analysts is because they failed at running businesses.

 

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post #424 of 647
10/12/07 at 11:54am
Quote:
Maybe you think it's the same people, but on these blogs there were thousands of diggs.

Still a small number in the scheme of the over all computer market. If I saw there were 2.6 million people around 10% of Apple's market. That emphatically stated they will not buy a Mac unless Apple introduced an xMac. Then that would be something Apple should probably listen to.

But I don't believe most people care either way. And of the people who would like an xMac most will buy the iMac or Mac Pro and live long ever after.
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post #425 of 647
10/12/07 at 12:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickag View Post

Maybe you think it's the same people, but on these blogs there were thousands of diggs.

An Open Letter To Steve Jobs
http://www.sendmike2space.com/

Wheres the Mac?
http://blogs.smugmug.com/don/2007/08/08/wheres-the-mac/

Assume 6000 diggs to be generous. Assume that each digg represents 100 buyers. Great...that's 1 qtr worth of sales. Now nearly 5000 diggs is very good for one story its small in comparison to the total number of diggs in a day (45K a day average with a peak of 360K diggs in a day).

Is there demand for an xMac? Yes. Is there DEMAND for an xMac? No one has shown that to be the case yet.
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post #426 of 647
10/12/07 at 12:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

Assume 6000 diggs to be generous. Assume that each digg represents 100 buyers. Great...that's 1 qtr worth of sales. Now nearly 5000 diggs is very good for one story its small in comparison to the total number of diggs in a day (45K a day average with a peak of 360K diggs in a day).

Is there demand for an xMac? Yes. Is there DEMAND for an xMac? No one has shown that to be the case yet.

We've shown you that over 95% of desktops sold are towers, we've shown you that all in ones don't sell very well outside of Apple, we've shown you nobody outside the Mac platform buys a workstation for a desktop, we've shown you that Apple's desktop sales are completely stagnant despite a meteoric growth in laptop sales and still you don't listen to anything but Apple is perfect and everyone wants an all in one. You and those like you simply don't want to believe anything outside your own biases despite how overwhelming the evidence is.
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post #427 of 647
10/12/07 at 12:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Still a small number in the scheme of the over all computer market. If I saw there were 2.6 million people around 10% of Apple's market. That emphatically stated they will not buy a Mac unless Apple introduced an xMac. Then that would be something Apple should probably listen to.

But I don't believe most people care either way. And of the people who would like an xMac most will buy the iMac or Mac Pro and live long ever after.

Actually most of them are buying dell or have a Mac laptop with a PC desktop. And i bought that iMac. Amazing family machine. for me, I find it very limiting.
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post #428 of 647
10/12/07 at 12:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post


And of the people who would like an xMac most will buy the iMac or Mac Pro and live long ever after.


That's half right. Those who want less of a tower than the Mac Pro will rarely buy an iMac -- for many reasons that have been discussed. Like me, many will buy a Mac Pro. It will come from eBay however, not Apple. In fact, it's my next purchase, before long. It will replace the G5, which goes into the office. My current office G4 will not run Leopard.

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post #429 of 647
10/12/07 at 12:42pm
^ and that does nothing to help apple. They just lost a sale.

 

 

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post #430 of 647
10/12/07 at 1:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by emig647 View Post

^ and that does nothing to help apple. They just lost a sale.

That's exactly what have been said for "years" on any xMac thread.

I'm not here to help Apple, they are a billions dollars company, and I'll be lucky if I reach $30K this year.

Apple is here TO HELP ME: providing computers that fit my needs and my budget.

Are you going to buy an iMac because Apple needs to have better numbers for their desktop sales? Maybe you should add another Mac mini too (I've been told they are not selling well these days), and would you be kind enough to get an AppleTV (the 160GB model), please, please, please, it's to help Apple!
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post #431 of 647
10/12/07 at 1:44pm
Thread Starter 
That is a cool looking Mac up there. I think for the basic configuration it's about perfect, but I think the processor could even be slower in the root configuration. I love the idea, and I think it looks nice too. It's different which is good.
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post #432 of 647
10/12/07 at 2:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Still a small number in the scheme of the over all computer market. If I saw there were 2.6 million people around 10% of Apple's market. That emphatically stated they will not buy a Mac unless Apple introduced an xMac. Then that would be something Apple should probably listen to.

But I don't believe most people care either way. And of the people who would like an xMac most will buy the iMac or Mac Pro and live long ever after.

Oh come on, you expect some obscure blog to get every friggin computer user to read his blog and go to the trouble of registering with digg so they can digg the article. I'd say the one blog that had over 4 thousand diggs is pretty good evidence of a vastly greater size market. It wasn't posted on Cnet for crying out loud.
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post #433 of 647
10/12/07 at 2:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

Assume 6000 diggs to be generous. Assume that each digg represents 100 buyers. Great...that's 1 qtr worth of sales. Now nearly 5000 diggs is very good for one story its small in comparison to the total number of diggs in a day (45K a day average with a peak of 360K diggs in a day).

Is there demand for an xMac? Yes. Is there DEMAND for an xMac? No one has shown that to be the case yet.

See the above post I made.
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post #434 of 647
10/12/07 at 2:39pm
vinea and TenoBell

If you haven't noticed, you both are in the minority here. And this is on an Apple centric website. I can only imagine what the numbers would be like on a website targeted at potential switchers.

You both can bring up all the arguments you like or the profit margins that Apple makes, but the simple fact of the matter is that AIO computers and ultra small Mac mini computers represent a small niche market of computers and that for the most part consumers don't care about.

What consumers are interested in is Mac OS X. That's at least as important to what catches their attention as the sleek designs of Apple computers. Apple has artificially set up barriers to consumers purchasing desktop computers. Why, only Steve Jobs knows for sure. Profit margins, design philosphy, ease of use, we will never really know. Yet, the barriers exist for most consumers and Apple's desktop computers.

But they don't exist for Apple laptops and holy cow, lo and behold, Apple laptops are increasing in market share at unheard of rates. And Apple doesn't sell cheap laptops, they only sell on the higher end. And no desktop sales aren't falling off a cliff, this is a lame argument and very tiresome, desktop sales still represent a huge market, bigger than huge, it is only that latops sales are increasing faster than desktop sales.
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post #435 of 647
10/12/07 at 3:31pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickag View Post


If you haven't noticed..................... this is on an Apple centric website. I can only imagine what the numbers would be like on a website targeted at potential switchers.

You........ can bring up all the arguments you like or the profit margins that Apple makes, but the simple fact of the matter is that AIO computers and ultra small Mac mini computers represent a small niche market of computers and that for the most part consumers don't care about.

What consumers are interested in is Mac OS X. That's at least as important to what catches their attention as the sleek designs of Apple computers. Apple has artificially set up barriers to consumers purchasing desktop computers. Why, only Steve Jobs knows for sure. Profit margins, design philosphy, ease of use, we will never really know. Yet, the barriers exist for most consumers and Apple's desktop computers.

But they don't exist for Apple laptops and holy cow, lo and behold, Apple laptops are increasing in market share at unheard of rates. And Apple doesn't sell cheap laptops, they only sell on the higher end. And no desktop sales aren't falling off a cliff, this is a lame argument and very tiresome, desktop sales still represent a huge market, bigger than huge, it is only that latops sales are increasing faster than desktop sales.


That is a great post rickag. I couldn't agree more.
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post #436 of 647
10/12/07 at 5:57pm
Quote:
We've shown you that over 95% of desktops sold are towers,

This is not because towers and AIO have had an equal opportunity in the consumer market where consumers chose towers. Part of the reason is because AIO are not widely available. AIO are all most people need and don't know they are an option. Partly this is because enterprise wants towers that are easy to upgrade. Enterprise buys more towers than consumers so that is what is mostly provided.







Are you really surprised these computers did not set the AIO sales ablaze?

Quote:
Oh come on, you expect some obscure blog to get every friggin computer user to read his blog and go to the trouble of registering with digg so they can digg the article. I'd say the one blog that had over 4 thousand diggs is pretty good evidence of a vastly greater size market. It wasn't posted on Cnet for crying out loud.

I'd say that this article being on some obscure blog instead on larger media like CNET or PCWorld shows this is not a big issue.

Quote:
If you haven't noticed, you both are in the minority here. And this is on an Apple centric website.

We are only the minority on a thread of a small group that really want an xMac. Most people around AI don't post on this thread because they don't care.

Quote:
And no desktop sales aren't falling off a cliff, this is a lame argument and very tiresome, desktop sales still represent a huge market, bigger than huge, it is only that latops sales are increasing faster than desktop sales.

Its not a lame argument, its fact. The problem is that it does not support your argument for an xMac. Laptops surpassed desktops two years ago. Laptop sales are only pulling further and further ahead of desktop sales.
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post #437 of 647
10/12/07 at 6:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjteix View Post

That's exactly what have been said for "years" on any xMac thread.

I'm not here to help Apple, they are a billions dollars company, and I'll be lucky if I reach $30K this year.

Apple is here TO HELP ME: providing computers that fit my needs and my budget.

Are you going to buy an iMac because Apple needs to have better numbers for their desktop sales? Maybe you should add another Mac mini too (I've been told they are not selling well these days), and would you be kind enough to get an AppleTV (the 160GB model), please, please, please, it's to help Apple!

Soon as I typed that I figured someone would take it out of context. I meant this from Apple's POV... as in if they HAD an xMac or cheaper tower... it would have been a new sale... since they don't... they lose a sale.

 

 

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post #438 of 647
10/12/07 at 6:00pm
The problem isn't so much what the iMac can do, but my desk already has 2 monitors on it, and a Mac Pro is simply out of the question, and I would much rather have a Core 2 Duo or Quad Core Duo system that was also headless, and had easily accessible DDR2, non ECC desktop RAM slots, and at least one internal 3.5" HD bay. And an upgradeable video card too, but that might be too much to dream about.

If I cared more about saving desk space, and/or only had a single monitor, an iMac would be OK, but I'm just not a fan of AIO designs.

So I'm pretty much left with a Mac Mini, that Apple wants to now kill (for real), and replace it with an updated ATV, which I hope would be more like a Mini than ATV.

Maybe I'm a complete atypical PC user that actually doesn't have issues with PC's in general or Windows (Vista included), but would like a Mac system to play with, and that doesn't require gobs of money. I could run Linux if I wanted to (and have), but it really wouldn't the same.

I just find it funny that when I see threads on Vista/Windows bashing, about how bad it is, and the 'Buy a Mac' replies, but then you actually want a Mac, just don't complain about the lack of configurations, because Steve Jobs knows what and how people actually want to use their computer, and merely suggesting differently is a silly question.
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post #439 of 647
10/12/07 at 6:06pm
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Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

This is not because towers and AIO have had an equal opportunity in the consumer market where consumers chose towers. Part of the reason is because AIO are not widely available. AIO are all most people need and don't know they are an option. Partly this is because enterprise wants towers that are easy to upgrade. Enterprise buys more towers than consumers so that is what is mostly provided.

I know you picked random examples, but there have been many many many many more AIOs than that. Everyone has tried them, since the 80s. They keep failing. They keep failing because they don't appease the common consumer / business. Emachines had an iMac look-a-like during the iMac boom. Their machine looked ALMOST IDENTICAL... but flopped... why? It wasn't windows... because windows 98 -> 2k was selling faster than anyone could keep them on the shelves because of the internet boom.

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Its not a lame argument, its fact. The problem is that it does not support your argument for an xMac. Laptops surpassed desktops two years ago. Laptop sales are only pulling further and further ahead of desktop sales.

Just because laptops are selling quickly does NOT mean the desktop market has shrunk. In fact it's grown, just not at the rate that laptops have. Everyone can't use a laptop. Everyone can't use a desktop. Everyone can't use a PDA. Everyone can't use a workstation. Everyone can't use a server. I'm sorry that an xMac doesn't fit your life style. It certainly fits more than you're seeing. If you take a look at all the computers in schools... you'll see 1 thing in common with 90% of them. What are they??? Form factor wise.

 

 

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The reason why they are analysts is because they failed at running businesses.

 

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The reason why they are analysts is because they failed at running businesses.

 

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post #440 of 647
10/12/07 at 6:08pm
One of the biggest arguments one can make is this:

People who use dual lcds, the iMac is simply out of the question. It is such a pain in the ass trying to calibrate 2 monitors let alone 2 DIFFERENT monitors. So you suggest a $2.5k workstation? lol.

 

 

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The reason why they are analysts is because they failed at running businesses.

 

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The reason why they are analysts is because they failed at running businesses.

 

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