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Apple to launch ringtone service for iPhone users - Page 3

post #81 of 87
The good news is that I am addressing the forum in general, JeffDM, so what I say is not so much directed towards you but rather my attempt to bring everything to the table. For instance, such as making posters from DVD screenshots, or reprinting almost any images from various materials, it is not usually legal unless you lease or own the rights of doing so. It doesn’t matter if you are doing it for money or not, the picture or video or other media is not actually yours – its still the property of another. Buying something does not transfer rights to the buyer. Buyers have limited usage of their purchase and fair use certainly has its limits.

I’m not trying to argue with anyone, I’m just trying to point out that with the explosive growth of the internet, which includes blogs, podcasts, myspace, etc., that the only thing more profitable than selling content (such as music, etc.) is the newly emerging ability to easily customize that content. Apple is providing a quick and easy way to make ringtones for the iPhone and paying a total $2, which includes the song, is brilliant.

Regarding ringtones with other companies, there are too many times when one buys a ringtone and it doesn’t sound like what they wanted. You do not decide what parts of the song you hear – the company does. Usually, you also cannot transfer that ringtone to another phone if the current one breaks or they upgrade during their contract. So, all around, what Apple is working on sounds great.

Overall, I look forward to the new service and hope it works out great for everyone involved. I, for one, would like them to consider signing deals with movie studios to allow creating ringtones or movie video clips from various sections of movies, such as one’s favorite quote or other scenes. Maybe in time, like widgets, one could take small sections of their favorite songs or movies and place them, legally, on their own blogs, etc..

Many here probably won’t use ringtones. I just want to point out that Apple’s new service sounds better than how its offered elsewhere. That’s progress.


post #82 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kephisto View Post

The good news is that I am addressing the forum in general, JeffDM, so what I say is not so much directed towards you but rather my attempt to bring everything to the table.

That's fine, but I don't think things are as dire for artists as you suggest, and I don't think your assertions are accurate.

Quote:
For instance, such as making posters from DVD screenshots, or reprinting almost any images from various materials, it is not usually legal unless you lease or own the rights of doing so. It doesnt matter if you are doing it for money or not, the picture or video or other media is not actually yours its still the property of another. Buying something does not transfer rights to the buyer. Buyers have limited usage of their purchase and fair use certainly has its limits.

Fair use has its limits, but I don't see how making your own movie poster or desktop wallpaper from a DVD screen shot is not outside that limit. I don't see how it fails the four point test used to determine if it is fair use. Distribution of that image changes the game, and I can see that distribution is often not fair use. Fair use is, admittedly, up to judicial interpretation, but I fail to see how it could be interpreted to that extreme. The real problem is that a good share of DVDs are encrypted and the use of decrypters are either a gray area or outright illegal in many places.
post #83 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

It's not free. It's not as if the artist didn't get the money if the person legally bought the source song in the first place. My contention is that if I bought the album, the artist already got my money, it is the principle of first sale. With a legally purchased CD, an individual is not violating copyrights to transfer the song to a different file format for use on a different device, and I don't see anything that shows that phones and ring tones are an exception to that. The iTunes EULA is more restrictive and generally disallows this, but at least there, one didn't have to buy the entire album to legally buy the song and get ring tone rights to that one song, so I guess it's still a savings if you only buy a few out of a given album.

The rest of your post is basically a non sequitur as well, for these reasons.

Jeff, how many times does it have to be said that you DON'T buy a song. You buy a license to use the song under the terms of the license, which can be taken away from you if you do not abide by those terms.

If downloadable songs (and this is from ALL download sites) specifically do not give you the right to use the song for which you bought a license to use under the terms of that license, for the purpose of creating a ringtone, then you do NOT have that right.

I really know that you want very much to think that you own the songbut you do not. Protest as much as you will, but you still do not.

Now, if you bought a CD, you might be able to do it, but, the license there is specific in detailing exactly what you may do with it, and if ringtones are not mentioned, well, again, you can't do it.


If software appears that makes it doable, that software is breaking license, and your contract with Apple.

Are you going to do it anyway? I suppose so.
post #84 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

If downloadable songs (and this is from ALL download sites) specifically do not give you the right to use the song for which you bought a license to use under the terms of that license, for the purpose of creating a ringtone, then you do NOT have that right.

I thought I said this in the part you quoted, I'm puzzled how you missed it. Did you read what I wrote?

I really don't buy from iTunes or otherwise download music, so it's not going to be a problem, I'm not going to be violating the EULA. But, as you say, the terms of the EULA don't cover CDs, and most of what I wrote about covered CDs.

The only thing that I get out of your post is a semantics issue, buying & licencing and all that, you are right on that, but I knew it was a license all along, but the terminology of buying is pervasive, so I might make the mistake. Even on iTunes, the button says "Buy". I know it's a license.
post #85 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

I thought I said this in the part you quoted, I'm puzzled how you missed it. Did you read what I wrote?

I really don't buy from iTunes or otherwise download music, so it's not going to be a problem, I'm not going to be violating the EULA. But, as you say, the terms of the EULA don't cover CDs, and most of what I wrote about covered CDs.

The only thing that I get out of your post is a semantics issue, buying & licencing and all that, you are right on that, but I knew it was a license all along, but the terminology of buying is pervasive, so I might make the mistake. Even on iTunes, the button says "Buy". I know it's a license.

It's tough to know what people mean.

I get upset about violating copyright and license because it's happened to me, and my cousins, who are songwriters. The estimates are that they lose about 30% of their income to broken license agreements, not just by individuals, but also by small radio stations who are supposed to collect the data of everything the play, and sent in the money, but don't.
post #86 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kephisto View Post

Think about it, you work for years to finally get a contract, perhaps have a couple concerts, and now thousands love your music and are paying for CDs and music downloads. However, just when your new hit song or album grows up the charts, you're hearing others setting your songs to ringtones on a fast growing industry (cell phones) or using as backgrounds on their web pages, etc., and you don't get another dime? They should be free to use it at will? They paid for your song or album and can digitally splice and dice your words, music, and more how they please on whatever device that plays sound? Really, if that was your way of making a living, would you really embrace the idea that it should be free?

For what it's worth, apparently the band doesn't get any royalties from the ring tones.

"unfortunately--what the RIAA actually won in the case cited by Engadget was instead the right to collect money for ringtones without distributing those fees to the artists they represent. "

Anyway, this situation looks to be far more complex than either of us had considered.

http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/Tec...right_Law.html
post #87 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

For what it's worth, apparently the band doesn't get any royalties from the ring tones.

"unfortunately--what the RIAA actually won in the case cited by Engadget was instead the right to collect money for ringtones without distributing those fees to the artists they represent. "

Anyway, this situation looks to be far more complex than either of us had considered.

http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/Tec...right_Law.html

It's basically a good article, except that the quote is out of context, and the last section of the article is again, as it often is with him, a bit hysterical.

Another good article is from MacWorld:

http://www.macworld.com/news/2007/09...ones/index.php

The complexity is what I've tried to explain to people without writing pages of information down.
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