Calling all chefs - Page 2

Fellowship, you don't have to justify yourself to anyone for anything....

It's your money, you earned it. What you do with it is your business. What's it to do with anyone else?

Bring on more recipes!

RECIPES already!

A recipe for getting under Fellowship's skin? I think I found it. \

For heaven's sake, Fellowship, I nudged you slightly about not going off into into bourgeoisie land with the "look at my new toy thread" and you're acting like it's your time of the month. (And yes, I did tease you about living in Tejas again.)

Go kick the cat or something, we're just talking here. Peace!

Sheeesh.

Fellow,

You went fishin', baited the hook, and dropped it in the creek. You can't moan about the size, or type of fish you caught there. You know the kind of 'wankers' that respond to these threads.

I applaud you for at least not purchasing another "disposable" item. Cooking utensils and tools are one of the few items that can be purchased that prove their worth through the years. Although it might be easy to spend too much (at first blush), it is difficult to wear out a good pot, pan, or knife if properly cared for.

Your recipe is very similar to "Beef Carbonnade". Brown approx. 1 1/2" cubed hunks of beef of some type, remove, and caramelize 1 to 2 onions, return the beef and cover with a good, robust Danish beer. In your neighborhood I would use the great Shiner Bock. The original recipe does not include the additional veggies, but I would not hesitate to add some quartered potatoes, and top with asparagas later in the process.

As to the definition of "Dutch Oven". In my neighborhood, it can mean the indoor pot such as you purchased, or the other one used in camp or fireplace cooking. A dutch overn up here may have three 2" legs on the bottom, a lid with a 1/2" lip, and a good strong metal handle. It can be hung from a tripod over a good fire, but is mostly used for oven work or braising. Set pan on ground close to fire, shovel hot coals underneath and on the lid (reason for the lip), refresh coals as necessary. Used like this, you can braise the finest of meals on a gravel bar, cook bisquits, or even cakes.

Paz

Lodge iron cookware is very high quality for the price, we have an extensive set (of non-enameled) that we use both at home and over a fire camping. Plain cast iron works fine as long as you remember not to use soap on the pans, and re-season it occasionally. Haven't tried the enameled dutch oven/stock pots yet, we just don't get that in-depth when cooking at the old homestead.

You're in the "too serious" box. If we bruised your ego, my apologies. I can't speak for the energy saving crowd, but I at least think your pot is very nice, and I wouldn't mind having one myself. If you're happy with it, I don't see why such an impish jab should put you off so much.

I do, however, find amusing americans who fancy themselves as "european" in that certain brand of semi-snobbishness. If you didn't respond so defensively to the first [polite] joke of the thread, the one referencing Texas's long (and proud) history of fire-cooked beef, nobody would have joked back. The smoking bit wasn't serious either, and was a jab at your disapproval of barbecue. You could have said "I don't like barbecue," but instead went of a diatribe about carcinogens in wood. C'mon, that's way too uptight and just asking for return fire.



I have some lodge pots. They are cheap and brutal, but their mass is necessary for cooking on electric burners. I have gas now, so they aren't used as much, but the fact that many, many restaurants use lodge cookware should speak for itself. It's also fine to soap them as long as you swab them with some oil right after drying. Le Creuset cookware is basically improved Lodge cookware, for ten times the price. If I were more wealthy than I am or were extremely passionate about cooking, I would probably buy a few of them.

Looks good, I am going to check this one out...

Btw, I am a huge Paprika freak - if you are into these things I can recommend the best paprika in the world: La Chinata.

It is made here in Spain in limited quantities and is oak-smoked...you can get in hot or sweet versions but the thing about it is that is the first spice in the world to achieve coveted DOC status....it really is that good.

Imo, if one is serious about cooking Mediterenean food this is an essential...

Sorry Fellows, but I will always get a kick out of American who declare themselves to be more (insert favorite European nation) than American. I have watched so many people go through this. Truthfully, you might enjoy living in another part of the US. Much of the NE is far quainter than the Metroplex as are parts of CA and OR.

I think more Americans should be more European....

I see many Americans romanticize a French or Italian or whatever lifestyle, but they are really not anything like my cohorts from those countries when it comes to core lifestyle values and philosophy.

That's fair Fellows. I have been fortunate to live my life in a very international work place and I have really enjoyed it. I suspect you see many more Americans each that than do I

Don't mix finding a behavior humorous with not approving of it. Just about everyone we send to France or Spain or Italy comes back sure that they have found their true identity. It's funny, but I get it. In many ways we have a colder lifestyle here in the US. We have gutted our local businesses for suburban malls and abandoned our local proprietors for national chains. Many live in impersonal subdivision where you can’t even get a newspaper without driving.

seg and fellows sitting in a tree. K, I, double S, I, N, G.

carry on, dont blame me I have no free-will.

Congratulations.

The Le Creuset dutch oven is one of the world's perfect things.

It is virtually impossible to ruin food in it, and it can cook many things better than anything else. Despite numerous attempts to reverse engineer it, nothing compares - except for pots costing even more.

The closest knock-off was from a company just on the other side of the border with Belgium, I believe, with a production process almost identical. Wasn't as good and went out of business.

A Le Creuset pot substitutes for - and outperforms - many other pots.

Anyone who eats would be wise to buy one. It has a lifetime warranty, and over time will save your culinary ass again and again. It is the best kichen investment you can make.


That's nasty, petty, and wrong. One good Le Creuset can save money on food, other pots, energy (cooks at lower temperatures) and help you eat well which everyone, even all those people dying of starvation, want. There is no link between a good kitchen pot and altruism, except that your response to his good kitchen pot was the opposite of altruistic.


You insult him and brag about your charity in what is likely the most condescending statement ever posted on the internet. If you are involved in charity, bragging about it sullies it. Do it out of the goodness of your heart, and not to brag about. And such condescension... all because he bought a decent pot. Yay for him! Boo for you!

Do not kick the cat! I am a cat and I do not like getting kicked!

Peace yourself! Do you know how yucky you sound in this thread? He's friendly you're yucky. You should go out and buy a nice pot and be less yucky. I recommend Le Creuset as a sensible choice. Eat well, be happy, do good things, and please, don't kick the cat!

Starting to look like cookware needs to be added to the list of things you don't talk about in polite company, up there with politics and religion.

Duddits:

Not meaning to get personal with Fellowship, which I don't think was actually in dispute; when I read his initial post he mentioned something to the effect that he felt "more French than American," then went into painful detail about his purchase.

The first thing that came to my mind, was Americans trying to buy themselves some European sophistication -- we'll leave the empathy-deprived, gauche, "look at my new expensive toy" aspect for another time. The topic deserved a nudge back to something less esoteric.

Conspicuous consumption is always in bad taste -- willfully putting it on display. Not many people can shell out two bills on a Dutch oven, and it's obtuse to try to draw a crowd on the subject, my answer to Fellowship's "what have you done for the poor" challenge notwithstanding.

Back to the root of what I suspected was a shallow comment that deserved a nudge -- the "being more French than American." My apologies, effete snobbery is not my strong suit:



Elizabeth Bates has been to Rome
And looked at the statues there;
Elizabeth Bates has scaled the Alps
And sniffed the mountain air.

Elizabeth Bates has winced at Nice
And quibbled at gay Paree,
And lifted her delicate eyebrows at
Indelicate Barbary.

Elizabeth Bates has "done" the globe
From Panama back to the States,
But all she saw on the way around
Was Miss Elizabeth Bates.

—Milo Ray Phelps, New Yorker, December 21, 1928




(Edit: Don't get me wrong, Fellowship is a sweetie.)

You nailed it:

The person who got pissy managed to link the pot to politics and religion!

I think it's difficult to understand the investment when we live in such a fast-food culture.

But that aside, to me the pot still seems like an extravagance. I can't really understand how much of a difference it makes in cooking. I mean, if you made the same meal with this pot and with a "control" pot, would a blind taste-tester really discern a difference? I understand and greatly respect the rationale behind purchasing the pot, but I can't understand whether it really makes a difference.

*That also said, the pot itself is beautiful and I think anything that makes you more respectful of food and the cooking process is entirely worth it.

I think it is possible to tell the difference.

I cook a lot and personally can tell the difference between certain organic foods - especially chicken - and the non-organic version. Also certainly the difference with food cooked in terracotta is very marked so I would say one can definitely differentiate.

Having said that - and I don't mean to be snobbish - I do not think that everyone can tell, palattes are different (some are even jaded haha) so surely the benchmark is whether one can tell the difference or not.

If yes then such investments are a bargain. If no then they are a waste of money.

It really does make a difference. A less experienced cook might think the difference is in other things, but it really is the pot. That's what I've been told by experienced cooks. I've had meals out at people's houses where they credit Le Creuset.

The pot is able to both retains heat and surround food with it evenly. It doesn't burn stuff, no hot spots, and makes stuff tender. It's easy to use since you can cook on the stove or oven with it (one pot instead of two). It's what high tech slow cookers aspire to do, but Le Creuset, with its old school approach, does it better. It's like a little oven within an oven, evenly, slowly, and forgivingly cooking your food. If you have to do stuff, and friends are coming over to eat, it's the best way to make lots of food and know it will turn out well without stressing.

As for extravagant - if you factor in the price of food over a year, the cost is negligeable. If you factor in the price of the pot over its lifetime (my mother uses Le Creuset from her mother, and it's still covered by warranty), the cost is negligeable. There are other metrics (food money saved, culinary ass saved, eating healthy and good food) that also makes it sensible. How much do you spend on food over 50 years? What percent of that is $200?

DMZ:

I understand your point, but I think you've got the wrong target.


I don't pretend to know his motivations but he seemed to post in a friendly "look what I just got" way rather than recreate the scene you describe from Moliere.

You claim his pot is not a pot but a symbol of American bourgeois conspicuous effete consumption. I disagree. I think its just a pot: a practical, well-made, widely-sold, widely-purchased, widely-used, widely-admired pot. Le Creusets are sold in common everyday stores and are found in common everyday homes. They're everywhere, last forever, are endlessly useful, easy to clean, and conserve energy. It is easy to make large amounts of good healthy food in them, perfect for company. Despite their origin, they have long been an American workhorse hardly worthy of pontification. Le Creuset is a staple, not a symbol.

It's funny that this is an Apple forum. Many people make the same criticism about Apple's customers that Apple products symbolize conspicuous consumption comments that are thankfully dissipating as more people recognize their value. It is ironic that a place where we argue the value of a computer that costs $2000 and lasts 3 years would also be the place where we would argue the value of a pot that costs $200 and lasts for generations.

Audience Member 1: "What do you think the Rolls Royce represented?"
Audience Member 2: "I think it represented his car."

-Stardust Memories



Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar

- You know who



Anyone attempting to buy ones way into European sophistication a ghastly goal to begin with with a Le Creuset pot will fail miserably.


Nothing snobbish about Le Creuset. It's like saying Americans eat pasta to put on Italian (or Chinese) airs. Not true. They just like pasta and like many things of foreign origin, in America is Americanized. The snobbery is in viewing the innocuous act of buying a kitchen appliance as a character flaw symbolic of a societal flaw.

You've got the wrong target. Le Creuset is not conspicuous consumption any more than sleeping on a mattress is conspicuous consumption. This past week someone bought a diamond-encrusted skull for 130 million dollars. That's your target. Some have argued a $600 phone is conspicuous consumption. But Le Creuset? You might as well target French toast.


The price of Le Creuset is based on cost of production individual molds must be made and broken for each one - yet pay for themselves many times over. If you are on a budget, it is a sensible investment. Besides, you would be surprised at the relative cost of cooking utensils among the worlds poor. Well made, hand made pots are not the problem. Its the cost of, and access to, ingredients that are the problem.

As for the old saw that no one should ever buy anything as long as there are starving people in the world... that should probably be its own thread and deleted for all time! Bill Gates is the world's greatest philanthropist and a conspicuous consumer (what a house!). Paul Allen has a 500 million dollar boat and is also an incorigeable philanthropist. For all we know, Mother Teresa had the first flat screen TV in India. The world's problems, my friend, are not solved by depriving oneself of a decent pot. If anything, I would guess that anyone who knows how to cook themselves a decent meal is more likely to be altruistic than those who cannot.

What is more effete snobbery: a well-intended post about buying a pot and sharing recipes, or a semiological analysis that criticizes it as emblematic of nationalistic and demographic foibles?


On the internet, nobody knows youre a dog.

- Peter Steiner, New Yorker, July 5, 1993

I'm sold.

Do these chip?

They are eternally sturdy. My mother's (which was her mother's) has got to be more than 50 years old. My mother doesn't follow the rules on how you're supposed to take care of it, and yet it's pretty forgiving. I know she's used steel wool on it and over the decades some of the enamel in the interior has erroded.

If you scrape at it, it will scrape. But its hard-fired enamel, almost like a glassy stone surface, not some heinous dupont petrochemical. As long as you resist the urge to use an abrasive cleaner, it rewards you by retaining a super smooth surface and therefore super easy to clean. But even if you don't, it still seems to age gracefully.

They now have a cheaper line of pots out that are based on cermamic, not iron and I would not get one of those. They look like the real deal, and obviously the company is trying to cash in on their name with a more affordable line, but they are the real waste of money. I'd either get the real deal, or pass.

I'm joining the ranks of the gratuitous money-wasting snobs. Inspired by Fellows, I absolutely have to have the Creuset Tajine.

An object of great beauty imo.

Man has this thread made me hungry!
I'll go home and cook something real nice now

Thank God....we don't mention the M word in my house