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Wu: Apple's "fatboy" nano could be this holiday's dark horse

post #1 of 85
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In a research report released Thursday morning, American Technology Research analyst Shaw Wu said Apple's new iPods are worthy successors to the models they replace, especially the iPod nano "fatboy," which he believes will emerge as this year's most popular stocking-stuffer.

"We find the new 'fatboy' nano most intriguing with its powerful feature set, 2-inch widescreen, unique form factor, and aggressive price points," the analyst told clients."We strongly believe this product is the dark horse to watch this holiday season and that it is positioned to have a similar impact as last year's redesigned iPod shuffle, which was a run-away seller."

Wu explained that the "fatboy's" aggressive entry level price point of $149 for the 4GB model (and $199 for the 8GB model) is likely to steer consumers away from the bare-bomnes iPod shuffle at $79 and towards the nano's video and gaming capabilities.

More generally, the analyst was impressed with all of Apple's iPod refreshes, noting that they'll combine for a "very strong" line-up for the upcoming holiday season. "From our assessment, we find the feature sets and price points well differentiated and believe this will help minimize cannibalization among product lines and versus iPhone," he wrote.

Similarly, and contrary to popular opinion, Wu found the price cut on 8GB iPhones to $399 from $599 to be both positive and necessary.

"We have had reservations with its high price point and are glad to see Apple address this problem," he explained. "In addition, we believe this lower price is necessary to reduce cannibalization with the new iPod touch, which is essentially a thinner iPhone without the cell phone, e-mail, and Bluetooth."

The one concern he does have with the cut, however, is the reaction from many of Apple's most loyal customers who are now feeling ripped off after having paid $599 for the handset over the course of the past nine weeks.
post #2 of 85
I will give it to Apple that they keep developing compelling products to keep the iPod line fresh and sales climbing higher and higher.
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post #3 of 85
What I find hard to stomach is the fact that Steve Jobs has no problem calling NBC "greedy" for wanting 2x the current wholesale price of current episodes on the iTunes store, yet, Apple is un-willing to compensate for the $200 price gouge that they've imposed on their most loyal customer base over the past 60 days for the iPhone.

It's evident that Apple can still make a decent profit at the $399 price-point, so why not restore the good-will of these early adopters and offer a $200 store credit?

A 34% price cut in 60 days is un-precedented, even in the fast moving technology world. Furthermore, in a similar situation, Apple offered early adopters of Aperture a $200 voucher after they slashed the price from $499 to $299.

Why is Apple milking it's early iPhone adopters considered "just business," but NBC is considered "greedy."
post #4 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by solsun View Post

What I find hard to stomach is the fact that Steve Jobs has no problem calling NBC "greedy" for wanting 2x the current wholesale price of current episodes on the iTunes store, yet, Apple is un-willing to compensate for the $200 price gouge that they've imposed on their most loyal customer base over the past 60 days for the iPhone.

It's evident that Apple can still make a decent profit at the $399 price-point, so why not restore the good-will of these early adopters and offer a $200 store credit?

A 34% price cut in 60 days is un-precedented, even in the fast moving technology world. Furthermore, in a similar situation, Apple offered early adopters of Aperture a $200 voucher after they slashed the price from $499 to $299.

Why is Apple milking it's early iPhone adopters considered "just business," but NBC is considered "greedy."

If you've purchased your iPhone within 14 days, you can return it to the store for the difference in price.
post #5 of 85
Proportionally the Fatboy is just plain ugly. Like my wife said, "It's like a man who doesn't look good in any suit."
post #6 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

The one concern he does have with the cut, however, is the reaction from many of Apple's most loyal customers who are now feeling ripped off after having paid $599 for the handset over the course of the past nine weeks.

Life's tough. I'm one of those people who bought an iPhone in the first week. I understand very well that there's a potential penalty for being a first-adopter, and this is one of them. Everybody knew the price would drop (though maybe not this quickly). Meh. I know a couple of people who are gonna laugh like a donkey because they waited. But I've enjoyed my iPhone quite a bit and don't regret not having waited.
post #7 of 85
Would you rather have a fatboy nano or the last generation skinny-boy nano? I have the skinny and without video playback, it makes the fatboy look good.
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post #8 of 85
No one forced those consumers to pay $600 for a phone. Early adopters have to have the product the second Steve Jobs says go. They get so excited they don't care about anything.

I wanted an iPhone right away too, but I made the choice not to buy one at all until the rediculous pricing gets worked out.

It's as simple as this. If you plunked down $600 for a phone, then you can't be too concerned about your money.


Quote:
Originally Posted by solsun View Post

It's evident that Apple can still make a decent profit at the $399 price-point, so why not restore the good-will of these early adopters and offer a $200 store credit?
post #9 of 85
I am a loyal loyal apple and mac user. I have bought one of every major release of hardware in the last 6 years. I understand that the price of the iphone needed to be dropped, but i still cant help but feel that i have been stabbed in the back. I bought 2 iphones, 2 cases and 2 car chargers a month and a half ago and spent 1300 dollars. I cannot believe i was stiffed out of 400 bucks. I second the motion for store credit. This is BS.
post #10 of 85
Hmmm...isn't "fatboy" a registered trademark of Harley-Davidson?
post #11 of 85
Unless you bought an iphone to lock away in a closet, the iphone is worth every penny - if $200 is that big of a deal to you and you didn't get value from the two months it's been out, clearly you should NOT have bought an iphone.

The car you bought last week new is now worth $5 to $10k less, so it's nothing new. If $200 is a big deal to you, stop buying anything valued over $200.
post #12 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by eodchop View Post

I am a loyal loyal apple and mac user. I have bought one of every major release of hardware in the last 6 years. I understand that the price of the iphone needed to be dropped, but i still cant help but feel that i have been stabbed in the back. I bought 2 iphones, 2 cases and 2 car chargers a month and a half ago and spent 1300 dollars. I cannot believe i was stiffed out of 400 bucks. I second the motion for store credit. This is BS.

Unless you bought the phone as a precious heirloom to pass onto your grandkids. and I don't think even you are that stupid, then you been stiffed by precisely nothing. Grow up.
post #13 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by solsun View Post

What I find hard to stomach is the fact that Steve Jobs has no problem calling NBC "greedy" for wanting 2x the current wholesale price of current episodes on the iTunes store, yet, Apple is un-willing to compensate for the $200 price gouge that they've imposed on their most loyal customer base over the past 60 days for the iPhone.

It's evident that Apple can still make a decent profit at the $399 price-point, so why not restore the good-will of these early adopters and offer a $200 store credit?

A 34% price cut in 60 days is un-precedented, even in the fast moving technology world. Furthermore, in a similar situation, Apple offered early adopters of Aperture a $200 voucher after they slashed the price from $499 to $299.

Why is Apple milking it's early iPhone adopters considered "just business," but NBC is considered "greedy."

This is neither price gouging nor unprecedented. Do you think Motorola gave all the early RAZR buyers their money back when it jumped from $500 to $99?

This is how the tech industry works. Get over it. I have absolutely no remorse over buying my iPhone at the initial cost. And I'm happy that even more people will now be able to enjoy the iPhone, expanding the user base and thus encouraging Apple to improve it with software updates, new features, etc. My iPhone just got more valuable, not less. The price drop virtually guarantees a successful holiday season, which should finally put an end to the naysayers and the analysts who are still driving the stock price down.

Apple can now make a decent profit at $399 because they have recouped their initial RND costs and have reduced the cost of manufacturing significantly. This happens all the time on assembly lines. The first million units cost a lot more to manufacture than the next million. Early adopters pay for that initial expense in exchange for prestige and the true bliss that only a true gadget geek can understand.

Now if Apple were to KEEP the high $599 price tag despite the drop in manufacturing costs, THAT would be greedy.
post #14 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbelkin View Post

Unless you bought an iphone to lock away in a closet, the iphone is worth every penny - if $200 is that big of a deal to you and you didn't get value from the two months it's been out, clearly you should NOT have bought an iphone.

The car you bought last week new is now worth $5 to $10k less, so it's nothing new. If $200 is a big deal to you, stop buying anything valued over $200.

Evidentally your mod edit:nose wasnt bloodied by steve and the rest of the crew
post #15 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronbo View Post

Life's tough. I'm one of those people who bought an iPhone in the first week. I understand very well that there's a potential penalty for being a first-adopter, and this is one of them. Everybody knew the price would drop (though maybe not this quickly). Meh. I know a couple of people who are gonna laugh like a donkey because they waited. But I've enjoyed my iPhone quite a bit and don't regret not having waited.

Same here. Couldn't agree more. I'm very happy with the price drop, despite have bought mine near the beginning. It's only going to make my wife's phone that much cheaper to buy when her contract is up.
post #16 of 85
I agree with the moron analyst for a change. I think the Nano Fatboy is a very compelling little trinket. Its the lack of bulk that makes the design work. It's one of those things that works better as a 3D object than a graphic.
post #17 of 85
Apple is notorious for charging a premium for "top tier" products and early adopters. You should have known this. If you can't afford to play this game with Apple, then you shouldn't buy their products....
post #18 of 85
I'm glad to see the price reduced, but I think that customer frustration and investor confusion suggests that Apple's pricing was not executed very well.

When other cell makers release phones they often do it at an increased price, but everyone knows that the price will drop over time. Would have been better if Apple had set expectations that this might be the case with the iPhone. Granted it would have reduced initial sales to some degree but it but it would have maintained customer good will much better.

In the whole, its better for the price to fall, but it does give the perception that the phone is being discounted, and maybe it is.

I think if Apple wants to get the iPhone to sell more, in addition to lower prices, they should open up and get an sdk out there. Personally, while I am excited about the iPhone, I really am most interested in seeing how it operates as a software platform.

Also, I think its really important that as soon as the Att exclusivity runs out, the device is available on every network, even if that means a version for Verizon, Sprint, etc...
post #19 of 85
Anyone buying a nano (earlier) wasn't to concerned about video anyway. Seriously, who wants to watch a video on a dinky screen? The iPod classic is STILL to small for me.

As far as I am concerned the nano was for music ONLY!!! If you want video, get a portable DVD player, or perhaps the iPod touch.

I guess you can't hold that much video anyway. The other mistake was the iPod touch coming with only 16GB!!!!! Why didn't they use HDD instead? NAND can't fully support my desires.

I am also curious how easy it is to hold one of these nanos and still operate the click wheel efficiently. It seems the natural placement of your thumb would be over the screen not at the click wheel.

Sorry, I am just venting. I do know my comments are all over the map. <grunt>
post #20 of 85
I hate the "fatboy" nickname. How about 3G nano or video nano?
post #21 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinney57 View Post

I agree with the moron analyst for a change. I think the Nano Fatboy is a very compelling little trinket. Its the lack of bulk that makes the design work. It's one of those things that works better as a 3D object than a graphic.

Same here. I hated the new Nano when the pictures of it were circulating around the 'net late last week. I hated it up until I saw the pictures of it, in Steve's hands at yesterday's event and was able to get a feel for the proportions of the device. Now I love it. Not enough to buy one (8GB is not enough - especially when 80GB can be had for $50 more) - but it is a very attractive player and I think it will sell-out very quickly this holiday season.
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post #22 of 85
"Fatboy Slim" sounds better I think. Famous artist too!
post #23 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by solsun View Post

What I find hard to stomach is the fact that Steve Jobs has no problem calling NBC "greedy" for wanting 2x the current wholesale price of current episodes on the iTunes store, yet, Apple is un-willing to compensate for the $200 price gouge that they've imposed on their most loyal customer base over the past 60 days for the iPhone.

It's evident that Apple can still make a decent profit at the $399 price-point, so why not restore the good-will of these early adopters and offer a $200 store credit?

A 34% price cut in 60 days is un-precedented, even in the fast moving technology world. Furthermore, in a similar situation, Apple offered early adopters of Aperture a $200 voucher after they slashed the price from $499 to $299.

Why is Apple milking it's early iPhone adopters considered "just business," but NBC is considered "greedy."

Could you at least take your whining to a thread that has something to do with the iPhone.

EDIT: oops... sorry. There is an iPhone price reference, so whining is probably ok. Proceed.
post #24 of 85
Always good to hear from Shaw Wu.
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post #25 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustBrady View Post

NAND can't fully support my desires.



No comments, just:
post #26 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustBrady View Post

Anyone buying a nano (earlier) wasn't to concerned about video anyway. Seriously, who wants to watch a video on a dinky screen? The iPod classic is STILL to small for me.

As far as I am concerned the nano was for music ONLY!!! If you want video, get a portable DVD player, or perhaps the iPod touch.

I

On the other hand, a 2" screen is actually kinda nice for pictures.

Frankly, I was prepared to hate the iChubby. But the darned thing is growing on me to the point where I'm actually having to decide between it and the Touch.

It'll come down to which (if either) support disk mounting and sound recording.
post #27 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by CREB View Post

Hmmm...isn't "fatboy" a registered trademark of Harley-Davidson?

I prefer "phatboy" or "phatty" myself. Of course, it is one of the thinnest if not the thinnest iPod's ever, so the name is somewhat of misnomer. It's basically as wide as it needs to be to fit a 2" screen. Given that it is $50 less than its predecessor and has all the video features of the iPod classic, it's a no brainer if you want a flash-based MP3 player and blows away the competition for feature/price value. If you want a real fatty, check out the Zune, http://www.zune.net/en-us/meetzune/zune30gb/default.htm.

As far as the price on the iPhone, get over yourself. New technology goes down in price. Amazon.com drops price on electronics every day, and guess what they don't match their own price if they do, even if you bought it the day before. For example, half the Blu-ray and HD DVDs I buy are now cheaper only a few weeks later (so is the PS3 and XBox HD DVD player for that matter only a few months later) so I'm out several hundred bucks, but hey, that's bleeding edge technology for you, and I expected it going in. Also, if you bought it in the last 14-days from the Apple Store or AT&T, they'll refund the $200. Anyways, be happy for all the people who can now enjoy it, and be honest with yourself, because you're just going to spend $599 again to go buy the 16GB 3G when it comes out in the spring.
post #28 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by CREB View Post

Proportionally the Fatboy is just plain ugly. Like my wife said, "It's like a man who doesn't look good in any suit."

Is an iPod still a fashion statement?
post #29 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gator View Post

Is an iPod still a fashion statement?

Yes it is. LOL
post #30 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Restalot View Post

Would you rather have a fatboy nano or the last generation skinny-boy nano? I have the skinny and without video playback, it makes the fatboy look good.

I'd rather have the skinny nano. People loved it for it's small, narrow size. Who in their right mind wants to watch video on such a tiny screen. The iPod video screen was too small as it was, now they are offering an iPod with a smaller screen? C'mon. Stupid, stupid. This is as lame as when Apple killed off the iPod mini.
post #31 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustBrady View Post

Anyone buying a nano (earlier) wasn't to concerned about video anyway. Seriously, who wants to watch a video on a dinky screen? The iPod classic is STILL to small for me.

I guess you can't hold that much video anyway. The other mistake was the iPod touch coming with only 16GB!!!!! Why didn't they use HDD instead?

Sorry, I am just venting. I do know my comments are all over the map. <grunt>

Couldn't agree with you more !
Why the hell should i choose the iPod touch instead of the iPhone .. !?!?
There's nothing trully better .. ..what like ?!? 2 mm thinner c'mon who cares !? and
only 8 gb more space ..
They should've used HDD !
but on the other hand , now the iPod touch is a powerfull feedback device . .for the iPhone future,.. think about that !
post #32 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmedia1 View Post

Apple is notorious for charging a premium for "top tier" products and early adopters. You should have known this. If you can't afford to play this game with Apple, then you shouldn't buy their products....

All electronic manufacturers do this. My plasma is now cheaper than when I bought it on fathers day, the ps3 is cheaper, x box 360 ecetera and ecetera.

People who are really upset over this should just avoid electronic purchases. This happens all the time.
post #33 of 85
I'll admit the features and price are compelling but it looks ugly to me. Maybe they look cooler in person. The photos look unflattering to me.
post #34 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by initiator View Post

I'd rather have the skinny nano. People loved it for it's small, narrow size. Who in their right mind wants to watch video on such a tiny screen. The iPod video screen was too small as it was, now they are offering an iPod with a smaller screen? C'mon. Stupid, stupid. This is as lame as when Apple killed off the iPod mini.

Yeah and the Nano became a even bigger hit. We need to wait and see before we bash the product.
post #35 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronbo View Post

Life's tough. I'm one of those people who bought an iPhone in the first week. I understand very well that there's a potential penalty for being a first-adopter, and this is one of them. Everybody knew the price would drop (though maybe not this quickly). Meh. I know a couple of people who are gonna laugh like a donkey because they waited. But I've enjoyed my iPhone quite a bit and don't regret not having waited.

I agree with you. Technology moves fast and competition is hard. Get over it ya whiners.

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post #36 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by CREB View Post

Hmmm...isn't "fatboy" a registered trademark of Harley-Davidson?

Apple's not using the term. Besides, I suggested "Fatso"... sounds more like "nano".

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post #37 of 85
a brief interlude from all the pontificating: but why do people (as mr. wu does repeatedly) use the phrases "form factor" and "price points" when "design" and "price" would serve just as well?? every time i hear "form factor" or "price point" it makes me think of some using what i'll call "verbal inflation," i.e. an effort to fill a space reserved for analysis with fluff.

now, perhaps one of you mensa members out there can provide me with an explanation for why it's better to use, in this case, two words rather than one. otherwise, just stick to design or shape and price or cost.
post #38 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by eodchop View Post

I am a loyal loyal apple and mac user. I have bought one of every major release of hardware in the last 6 years. I understand that the price of the iphone needed to be dropped, but i still cant help but feel that i have been stabbed in the back. I bought 2 iphones, 2 cases and 2 car chargers a month and a half ago and spent 1300 dollars. I cannot believe i was stiffed out of 400 bucks. I second the motion for store credit. This is BS.

I'm sorry, but you are a perfect example of the kind of consumer I consider, for lack of a nicer word, and idiot. You shelled out $1300 on fancy new toys as soon as the product was available, yet you resent future price drops? You get what you pay for, WHEN you pay for it, and YOU are responsible for YOUR money and how you spend it. If prices for that item drop, even precipitously, after you made your purchase, it only proves you are an impulsive and imprudent consumer who should be more thoughtful about their purchasing decisions in the future. If there is any blame to be had, it's all yours you spent unwisely in order to be the first kid on the block with a new toy.

Not trying to be mean, just give you some tough love.
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post #39 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by junkie View Post

I'm glad to see the price reduced, but I think that customer frustration and investor confusion suggests that Apple's pricing was not executed very well.

I totally agree with this statment. I bought an iPhone about a month ago as soon as my contract with Verizon expired. I love, love, love, my iPhone and have no regrets; it's the best phone I've owned so far. But I do understand the frustration of the "early adopters". $200 is a big drop in price from the initial launch and I think those who are easy to call these frustrated buyers a bunch of whiners or losers and deserving of getting ripped off for not waiting should remember that these early buyers are responsible for helping Apple succesfully launch this product.

It's not fair to compare this situation with a car that depreciates after you drive it off the lot or your Mac being upgraded within weeks of your purchase. This is the same iPhone that was $599 on June 29th. It was a totally unexpected price cut in such a very short time. I can't recall any other time Apple has done something like this with any other product including the iPod.

Anyway, this is just my opinion and I felt I had to post this because I have been reading many forums since yesterday regarding this issue and the name calling and viciousness of the comments have been dissappointing to me as a long-time Mac user. My "techie" co-worker who always has to have the latest electronic gadgets and never complains about anything was pretty disappointed yesterday. That tells me quite a bit about how this whole thing is playing out. Remember again, the early adopters helped make the iPhone a success for Apple so far.

Peace,
Marcus
post #40 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by mobius32us View Post

a brief interlude from all the pontificating: but why do people (as mr. wu does repeatedly) use the phrases "form factor" and "price points" when "design" and "price" would serve just as well?? every time i hear "form factor" or "price point" it makes me think of some using what i'll call "verbal inflation," i.e. an effort to fill a space reserved for analysis with fluff.

Ahmen, brother!
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