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Wu: Apple's "fatboy" nano could be this holiday's dark horse - Page 2

post #41 of 85
9/6/07 at 10:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mobius32us View Post

a brief interlude from all the pontificating: but why do people (as mr. wu does repeatedly) use the phrases "form factor" and "price points" when "design" and "price" would serve just as well?? every time i hear "form factor" or "price point" it makes me think of some using what i'll call "verbal inflation," i.e. an effort to fill a space reserved for analysis with fluff.

now, perhaps one of you mensa members out there can provide me with an explanation for why it's better to use, in this case, two words rather than one. otherwise, just stick to design or shape and price or cost.

It's Wu-Speak.

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post #42 of 85
9/6/07 at 10:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mistergsf View Post

I totally agree with this statment. I bought an iPhone about a month ago as soon as my contract with Verizon expired. I love, love, love, my iPhone and have no regrets; it's the best phone I've owned so far. But I do understand the frustration of the "early adopters". $200 is a big drop in price from the initial launch and I think those who are easy to call these frustrated buyers a bunch of whiners or losers and deserving of getting ripped off for not waiting should remember that these early buyers are responsible for helping Apple succesfully launch this product.

It's not fair to compare this situation with a car that depreciates after you drive it off the lot or your Mac being upgraded within weeks of your purchase. This is the same iPhone that was $599 on June 29th. It was a totally unexpected price cut in such a very short time. I can't recall any other time Apple has done something like this with any other product including the iPod.

Anyway, this is just my opinion and I felt I had to post this because I have been reading many forums since yesterday regarding this issue and the name calling and viciousness of the comments have been dissappointing to me as a long-time Mac user. My "techie" co-worker who always has to have the latest electronic gadgets and never complains about anything was pretty disappointed yesterday. That tells me quite a bit about how this whole thing is playing out. Remember again, the early adopters helped make the iPhone a success for Apple so far.

Peace,
Marcus

Well, Steve could give each of them a handshake... how would they feel then?

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post #43 of 85
9/6/07 at 10:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by physguy View Post

Same here. Couldn't agree more. I'm very happy with the price drop, despite have bought mine near the beginning. It's only going to make my wife's phone that much cheaper to buy when her contract is up.

I bought an iPhone the second day they were available. It stings a little that they're now $200 cheaper, but hey... I've been able to use my iPhone for two months, and I made the decision is was worth $600 to buy one.

Chances are when Apple comes out with a 3G iPhone, I'll upgrade right away, and end up paying more than I'd have to by waiting 3-6 months after the things are new. C'est la vie!
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post #44 of 85
9/6/07 at 10:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Well, Steve could give each of them a handshake... how would they feel then?

Sarcasm, I guess, as expected. BTW, a handshake from Steve would be great. I don't think there is anything wrong with acknowledgement in any shape or form. Do you?
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post #45 of 85
9/6/07 at 10:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Apple's not using the term. Besides, I suggested "Fatso"... sounds more like "nano".

How about "Nanny Fatso" or "Fatty Nanny?"

Sounds like a cool, fat, pipe-smoking grandma I had. What a broad!!
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post #46 of 85
9/6/07 at 10:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrjoec123 View Post

The price drop virtually guarantees a successful holiday season, which should finally put an end to the naysayers and the analysts who are still driving the stock price down.

Apple can now make a decent profit at $399 because they have recouped their initial RND costs and have reduced the cost of manufacturing significantly. .

On a cash flow basis, you simply cannot make the types of assertions you just did. The R&D done on the iPhone has already been incurred prior to launch, and is sunk. Zero cash flow impact on first million or next million iPhones sold. Period. Any allocations to R&D going forward will reflect current and future needs for the iPhone and related products, and will continue to get incurred in every iPhone that is sold in the future.

Also, I doubt that manufacturing costs (incl. component costs) fallen so dramatically as to justify a $200 price drop. In my view this will most certainly squeeze per-phone margins.

However, you are right that there will be an increase in quantity sold, but it remains to be seen whether that increase can compensate for the price and margin decrease. Perhaps this explains part of the stock price drop yesterday, since I'll bet analysts are themselves quite uncertain about many of these assumptions, and are busy revising their spreadsheets.
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post #47 of 85
9/6/07 at 10:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mobius32us View Post

a brief interlude from all the pontificating: but why do people (as mr. wu does repeatedly) use the phrases "form factor" and "price points" when "design" and "price" would serve just as well?? every time i hear "form factor" or "price point" it makes me think of some using what i'll call "verbal inflation," i.e. an effort to fill a space reserved for analysis with fluff.

now, perhaps one of you mensa members out there can provide me with an explanation for why it's better to use, in this case, two words rather than one. otherwise, just stick to design or shape and price or cost.

The phrases actually have different meanings to the single words. Unfortunately the people that now use these phrases have no idea what they mean and use them interchangeably because they sound cool. Thus their original technical meaning is lost. A price point is not an actual amount but a position within the pricing structure. A form factor is not an actual design but a class of design within a product range.
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post #48 of 85
9/6/07 at 10:41am
I have a question about the new iPod nano. On Apple's website it says the new nano let's you enjoy home videos, music videos and much more on a 2" display. I was wondering if this is a full fledged video iPod or does it have limitations. I just found it odd that they didn't mention anything about tv shows or movies bought off of iTunes. Any insight would be great, thanks.
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post #49 of 85
9/6/07 at 10:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fernando View Post

"Fatboy Slim" sounds better I think. Famous artist too!

I love it!
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post #50 of 85
9/6/07 at 10:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rangerdavid View Post

I'm sorry, but you are a perfect example of the kind of consumer I consider, for lack of a nicer word, and idiot. You shelled out $1300 on fancy new toys as soon as the product was available, yet you resent future price drops? You get what you pay for, WHEN you pay for it, and YOU are responsible for YOUR money and how you spend it. If prices for that item drop, even precipitously, after you made your purchase, it only proves you are an impulsive and imprudent consumer who should be more thoughtful about their purchasing decisions in the future. If there is any blame to be had, it's all yours you spent unwisely in order to be the first kid on the block with a new toy.

Not trying to be mean, just give you some tough love.

Maybe the early adopters can look at it this way:

They only paid $200 for a quick education on electronics consumerism.
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post #51 of 85
9/6/07 at 11:08am
I've been scouring through each and every page of Apple's website.

I've been poring through each and every page of all the literature that came with all the Apple products I've ever purchased.

I still can't find any language which says "Apple guarantees that after you purchase this product, its price will not fall at a rate that will hurt your feelings". Or words to that effect.

If somebody found such a notice, please let me know. I'm a little hurt that the MacBook line was upgraded one month after I bought one.
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post #52 of 85
9/6/07 at 11:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mistergsf View Post

I totally agree with this statment. I bought an iPhone about a month ago as soon as my contract with Verizon expired. I love, love, love, my iPhone and have no regrets; it's the best phone I've owned so far. But I do understand the frustration of the "early adopters". $200 is a big drop in price from the initial launch and I think those who are easy to call these frustrated buyers a bunch of whiners or losers and deserving of getting ripped off for not waiting should remember that these early buyers are responsible for helping Apple succesfully launch this product.

It's not fair to compare this situation with a car that depreciates after you drive it off the lot or your Mac being upgraded within weeks of your purchase. This is the same iPhone that was $599 on June 29th. It was a totally unexpected price cut in such a very short time. I can't recall any other time Apple has done something like this with any other product including the iPod.

Anyway, this is just my opinion and I felt I had to post this because I have been reading many forums since yesterday regarding this issue and the name calling and viciousness of the comments have been dissappointing to me as a long-time Mac user. My "techie" co-worker who always has to have the latest electronic gadgets and never complains about anything was pretty disappointed yesterday. That tells me quite a bit about how this whole thing is playing out. Remember again, the early adopters helped make the iPhone a success for Apple so far.

Peace,
Marcus

Well put. There would be no iPhone at $399 had the early buyers not supported it with their purchases so if everyone had held back, as some seem to indicate they were so clever to do, it might not be here today at all!

Personally I have no regrets and love the iPhone too but as an Apple loyalist since 1979 I worry that it is a bad PR situation especially when the most loyal are the ones getting this shock, however explained.

I think Aperture was well handled and I as an early adopter was thrilled with an Apple $200 gift voucher when they dropped the price so dramatically. I ended up adding $1,100 more to it to buy a MacBook for my wife. Apple might be well advised to do a similar move, I bet most would add more to any voucher and buy something more expensive too ... a true win win solution for all and great PR for Apple.
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Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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post #53 of 85
9/6/07 at 11:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mobius32us View Post

a brief interlude from all the pontificating: but why do people (as mr. wu does repeatedly) use the phrases "form factor" and "price points" when "design" and "price" would serve just as well?? every time i hear "form factor" or "price point" it makes me think of some using what i'll call "verbal inflation," i.e. an effort to fill a space reserved for analysis with fluff.

Yeah, a lot of it just fluff and verbal posturing, but I don't think it's all meaningless. Take the terminology "price point". That phrase brings to mind ideas that don't immediately come to mind, or with such emphasis, simply by saying "price". When I hear "price point", I'm immediately thinking of price in strategic terms, in terms of consumer reaction to the perceived value and affordability of a given product at a given price, psychological price categories like "under $100", etc.
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Declaring us the nicest of the damned -- They Might Be Giants          See the stars at skyviewcafe.com
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post #54 of 85
9/6/07 at 11:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustBrady View Post

I guess you can't hold that much video anyway. The other mistake was the iPod touch coming with only 16GB!!!!! Why didn't they use HDD instead? NAND can't fully support my desires.

I think the main reason is the battery life vs. usage tradeoff. Other than for the shuffle, Apple has been hitting over 20 hours battery life for music for all their iPods. A HDD would've lowered this.

When Leopard is released, it will have a feature where your portable Mac via wifi can log into your home computers via .Mac. I can see this being adapted to iTunes and the iPod touch/iPhone, so you can stream content from your own computers anywhere you have access to wifi. So local storage becomes less important.

And I think Apple is starting a push to get wifi everywhere by making wifi more attractive via seeding the world with more devices and a compelling iTunes service (and soon other services). Starbucks is just the beginning. And it also explains somewhat just going with EDGE instead of 3G on the iPhone.

Remember the rumor about having a virtual storage locker on your .Mac account for rented iTunes movies. If all this comes to be, then your wifi iPod or iPhone will have access to it. So you'd only store a couple of movies for when you have no wifi access.
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post #55 of 85
9/6/07 at 11:32am
Not a bunch of whiners, however this is expected for early adopters. The likelihood of a product, especially a technological one, to drop in price rapidly is expected when one assumes the position of an early adopter. Especially so in the mobile phone market. Remember the Razr craze? I had a guy tell me the day it was dropped to $199, and he bought his for $599 just 2 weeks prior! I bought mine 1 month later for free with mail-in rebates.
Remember, Apple has launched into the cut-throat world of mobile phones. What's cool today, is literally forgotten tomorrow! Remember the Verizon Chocolate buzz? Gone for awhile now. I tell you, that thing had a 3 month life-span for technological/aesthetic "wowness".
I've purchased many things "cutting-edge" and have paid the price every single time. It's the cost and the responsibility of the consumer to know that this is how it works.
Are the early adopters responsible for the adoption of the iPhone? Yes, just like any other product release, and because of this, they are able to reduce the prices.
Yes, it would suck to have had paid $600 2 weeks ago and now see a $200 price cut, but that's how it goes. The consumer can't be angry at the company for this.
Just sucks, but this is life.
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post #56 of 85
9/6/07 at 11:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

I worry that it is a bad PR situation especially when the most loyal are the ones getting this shock, however explained.

Thanks for making that point. I should have covered that in my original post. Whether you agree with them or not, there are enough angry buyers out there to make this a very bad PR situation for Apple which can and will have an effect on future products. Again, I'm happy with my iPhone and I've always been an early adopter and "sucker" for new things Apple. But, I will definitely remind myself of this the next time around. You just can't deny that people feel "stung" by this.

UPDATED: Oh, BTW, take a look at this article on CNN:
http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/...9_FORTUNE5.htm
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post #57 of 85
9/6/07 at 11:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tripo View Post

Couldn't agree with you more !
Why the hell should i choose the iPod touch instead of the iPhone .. !?!?
There's nothing trully better .. ..what like ?!? 2 mm thinner c'mon who cares !? and
only 8 gb more space ..
They should've used HDD !
but on the other hand , now the iPod touch is a powerfull feedback device . .for the iPhone future,.. think about that !

For $399:
iPhone: cell phone/EDGE coverage; camera; bluetooth; built-in apps for email, maps, etc
OR
iPod touch: 8GB plus don't need to shell out $60 a month for phone service, or about $1500.

Since I think wifi coverage (especially free wifi) will begin to grow rapidly in the US, and since I already have a phone (month 9 out of 24), I'm more likely to buy the iPod touch.
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post #58 of 85
9/6/07 at 11:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mistergsf View Post

Thanks for making that point. I should have covered that in my original post. Whether you agree with them or not, there are enough angry buyers out there to make this a very bad PR situation for Apple which can and will have an effect on future products. Again, I'm happy with my iPhone and I've always been an early adopter and "sucker" for new things Apple. But, I will definitely remind myself of this the next time around. You just can't deny that people feel "stung" by this.

UPDATED: Oh, BTW, take a look at this article on CNN:
http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/...9_FORTUNE5.htm

Looked at it. Trip Chowdhry and Van Baker are pretty useless analysts when it comes to Apple. Google them and you'll see their explanations and projections don't pan out. And it's because they just don't "get Apple". Michael Gartenberg (jupiterresearch), Gene Munster (real or fake), and even AppleInsider favorite Johnny-come-lately Shaw Wu have been much more accurate.

Agree with your other point about loyalists feeling "stung", even though it's not rational. For comparison, plasma/LCD TVs and HD-DVD/Blu-Ray drives have been dropping fast as well.
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post #59 of 85
9/6/07 at 12:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark2005 View Post

For comparison, plasma/LCD TVs and HD-DVD/Blu-Ray drives have been dropping fast as well.

I respectfully disagree with this. I don't think it's a "fair" comparison. There are many brands to choose from for plasma/LCD TVs and HD-DVD/Blu-Ray drives. Right now, there is only ONE iPhone; and for the hard core, no equivalent.
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post #60 of 85
9/6/07 at 1:04pm
vinney57: The phrases actually have different meanings to the single words. Unfortunately the people that now use these phrases have no idea what they mean and use them interchangeably because they sound cool. Thus their original technical meaning is lost. A price point is not an actual amount but a position within the pricing structure. A form factor is not an actual design but a class of design within a product range.


ok, thanks for that edification. and, yes, unfortunately the words and phrases are used interchangably.
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post #61 of 85
9/6/07 at 1:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CREB View Post

Proportionally the Fatboy is just plain ugly. Like my wife said, "It's like a man who doesn't look good in any suit."

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustBrady View Post

Anyone buying a nano (earlier) wasn't to concerned about video anyway. Seriously, who wants to watch a video on a dinky screen? The iPod classic is STILL to small for me.

As far as I am concerned the nano was for music ONLY!!! If you want video, get a portable DVD player, or perhaps the iPod touch.

I guess you can't hold that much video anyway. The other mistake was the iPod touch coming with only 16GB!!!!! Why didn't they use HDD instead? NAND can't fully support my desires.

I am also curious how easy it is to hold one of these nanos and still operate the click wheel efficiently. It seems the natural placement of your thumb would be over the screen not at the click wheel.

Sorry, I am just venting. I do know my comments are all over the map. <grunt>

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magic_Al View Post

I hate the "fatboy" nickname. How about 3G nano or video nano?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

On the other hand, a 2" screen is actually kinda nice for pictures.

Frankly, I was prepared to hate the iChubby. But the darned thing is growing on me to the point where I'm actually having to decide between it and the Touch.

It'll come down to which (if either) support disk mounting and sound recording.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rangerdavid View Post

Ahmen, brother!

While I didn't like it when I saw on the net, I held one in my hand today at an Apple Store (they had one for demo purposes that had just come in) and I must say that it is better looking in person. I had ordered a Nano RED before the announcement because I didn't like what I was seeing on the net. Now I may trade it (I haven't un-boxed it so no restocking fee). Haven't decided yet, I do like the old red better than the new red, which has a much bluer tone to it.
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post #62 of 85
9/6/07 at 1:42pm
Now, I don't expect things to turn out any differently from what the analyst says but that's mostly due to Apple's Marketing prowess. To me at least, the Nano is pretty disappointing. The newly introduced Creative Zen has it beat in just about every category. That being said I doubt that Creative will market this thing correctly and thus will get trounced by the Nano.
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post #63 of 85
9/6/07 at 2:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebg View Post

Now, I don't expect things to turn out any differently from what the analyst says but that's mostly due to Apple's Marketing prowess. To me at least, the Nano is pretty disappointing. The newly introduced Creative Zen has it beat in just about every category. That being said I doubt that Creative will market this thing correctly and thus will get trounced by the Nano.

except that is is thick as hell and you could almost carry two nanos in its place, which would make sence if you had the 16gb zen.

Nano:
Height: 2.75 inches (69.8 mm)
Width: 2.06 inches (52.3 mm)
Depth: 0.26 inch (6.5 mm)

zen:
Hight 55 mm
Width: 83mm
Depth: 11.3mm

if apple had made the nano like 12 mm thick they could have probably gotten 32gb in there. However, that is not the purpose of the nano.


as for their marketing:




LOL!!!
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post #64 of 85
9/6/07 at 2:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mistergsf View Post

I respectfully disagree with this. I don't think it's a "fair" comparison. There are many brands to choose from for plasma/LCD TVs and HD-DVD/Blu-Ray drives. Right now, there is only ONE iPhone; and for the hard core, no equivalent.

Some people are fanatic about Fujitsu plasmas, some about Aquos LCD, others only want a Sony BDP. Like you, they don't consider other brands as "equivalent. (As for the Sony BDPs, didja notice the BDP300 premiered for 50% off the BDP-1000).

And for the record, I'm happy that Jobs did the $100 gift.
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post #65 of 85
9/6/07 at 2:13pm
That being said, thickness is about all they have up on the Zen. Battery Life is the same, supports more video codecs, has a bigger screen, and expandable memory for the exact same price. I think they could put up a good fight if they can actually get people to know about their product.
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post #66 of 85
9/6/07 at 2:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebg View Post

Now, I don't expect things to turn out any differently from what the analyst says but that's mostly due to Apple's Marketing prowess. To me at least, the Nano is pretty disappointing. The newly introduced Creative Zen has it beat in just about every category. That being said I doubt that Creative will market this thing correctly and thus will get trounced by the Nano.

I assume you talking about the Zen V plus since that's the only one in the price range of the nano.

So lets see - compare 4GB to 4GB models (from the companies web sites)

The Zen is MORE expensive $199 vx $149
The Zen has lower resolution smaller screen - 1.5" vs 2.0" and 128x128 vs 320s240
The Zen does have line-in recording - Nano not.


???????

Edit: To me so long the other posts came up so I take it we're comparing a $149 model against a $249, or $199 against a $349 model? So NM
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post #67 of 85
9/6/07 at 2:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrpiddly View Post


Nano:
Height: 2.75 inches (69.8 mm)
Width: 2.06 inches (52.3 mm)
Depth: 0.26 inch (6.5 mm)

zen:
Hight 55 mm
Width: 83mm
Depth: 11.3mm

Well, its not only depth, that's bigger, but height/width that are bigger if you compare them in the same orientation.

And I seriously doubt that the Creative device has anywhere near the desktop integration that iTunes gives. But to each his own. Creative has always made a nice device for what it is. I just prefer to manage on the desktop.
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post #68 of 85
9/6/07 at 2:19pm
physguy, you're looking at the wrong unit, the new zens are the same price as the nano with bigger screens.

http://us.creative.com/products/prod...Specifications
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebg View Post

Now, I don't expect things to turn out any differently from what the analyst says but that's mostly due to Apple's Marketing prowess. To me at least, the Nano is pretty disappointing. The newly introduced Creative Zen has it beat in just about every category. That being said I doubt that Creative will market this thing correctly and thus will get trounced by the Nano.

The creative has a bigger screen, that's nice and seems to be the main advantage. They don't list video output to a screen, does it do it?

It's bigger, thicker, heavier than the nano. Same price for same capacites, but goes up to 16G (although that's the same price as an ipod touch, and they definitely lose that comparison bigtime). The zen seems nice, but not enough advantage that I'd buy it over a nano. Regardless of how they market it, it will probably get trounced, there are probably just too many people hooked into the ipod/itunes integration and file formats.


I think the nano is really getting overlooked in the flurry of announcements. It's a killer unit at a great price, and with the holidays they'll probably be selling them as fast as they can make them. This is probably the strongest lineup apple has ever had going into christmas, and I'm sure sales will reflect that.
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post #69 of 85
9/6/07 at 2:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebg View Post

That being said, thickness is about all they have up on the Zen. Battery Life is the same, supports more video codecs, has a bigger screen, and expandable memory for the exact same price. I think they could put up a good fight if they can actually get people to know about their product.

bigger screen, same resolution

are you really going to carry around sd cards and switch them out just to find one song.

and size/price in the primary issue concerning this market
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post #70 of 85
9/6/07 at 2:58pm
I think if the early photos didn't find their way on the net people wouldn't be referring to this as "fatboy". The thing is super thin. Even if you don't watch video on this, I think it improves the UI and I like that there is cover flow on the device. The early picture also had no sense of scale, after viewing photos of this thing in people's hands, well, I already said it.
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post #71 of 85
9/6/07 at 3:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by minderbinder View Post

physguy, you're looking at the wrong unit, the new zens are the same price as the nano with bigger screens.

http://us.creative.com/products/prod...Specifications


The creative has a bigger screen, that's nice and seems to be the main advantage. They don't list video output to a screen, does it do it?

It's bigger, thicker, heavier than the nano. Same price for same capacites, but goes up to 16G (although that's the same price as an ipod touch, and they definitely lose that comparison bigtime). The zen seems nice, but not enough advantage that I'd buy it over a nano. Regardless of how they market it, it will probably get trounced, there are probably just too many people hooked into the ipod/itunes integration and file formats.


I think the nano is really getting overlooked in the flurry of announcements. It's a killer unit at a great price, and with the holidays they'll probably be selling them as fast as they can make them. This is probably the strongest lineup apple has ever had going into christmas, and I'm sure sales will reflect that.

I'm not positive about video output on the Zen. Cnet's crave blog does talk about video output through the audio jack being nixed, but they could be mistaken
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crave

On the downside, one feature that I believe Apple has sneaked out of both the new iPod Nano and iPod Classic is the ability to use the headphone jack as a composite video output jack, allowing for photos and videos to be played to your television set without the aid of a third-party interface.

I think this could be a great device, I was just expecting a little more out of it. At least having 16GB could possibly sell me. I just find the fact that I can put all of my music and a few videos on the player itself and then have an SD card that I could throw a couple movies and TV Shows on for trips and whatnot.

That being said I'm tossing around the idea of the iPod Classic because 80GB for $250 is ridiculous, that's bigger than my laptop HDD!
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post #72 of 85
9/6/07 at 3:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebg View Post

I'm not positive about video output on the Zen. Cnet's crave blog does talk about video output through the audio jack being nixed, but they could be mistaken

They are mistaken. The feature hasn't been removed, just moved from the audio jack to the usb jack. There are new versions of the cable, both composite and component. And now that feature is on every ipod, not just the big one, it even looks like its been added to the iPhone which didn't do it before.
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post #73 of 85
9/6/07 at 3:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by minderbinder View Post

They are mistaken. The feature hasn't been removed, just moved from the audio jack to the usb jack. There are new versions of the cable, both composite and component. And now that feature is on every ipod, not just the big one, it even looks like its been added to the iPhone which didn't do it before.

Oh alright, so that appears to be a feature that they have over the Zen. I really hope that I'm not sounding like a hater here because I'm still considering an iPod. My biggest beef is that they still don't support .AVI or Divx files but if it's true that all players force you to transcode that problem would be somewhat alleviated since it would almost be the same no matter where I go.
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post #74 of 85
9/6/07 at 3:40pm
If you really like the zen, get the zen.

Is it shipping yet?
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post #75 of 85
9/6/07 at 4:15pm
nope no shipping as of yet, but either way I can't afford either at the moment with books for school being my main necessity right now. I'll sit back and wait for some reviews. I don't like that neither lets you drag and drop files but I guess that won't be more than a minor annoyance.
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post #76 of 85
9/6/07 at 4:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac View Post

All electronic manufacturers do this. My plasma is now cheaper than when I bought it on fathers day, the ps3 is cheaper, x box 360 ecetera and ecetera.

People who are really upset over this should just avoid electronic purchases. This happens all the time.

The problem I see is not the fact that prices drop, that's clearly unavoidable. It's the time from first introduction to the first price drop. The 360 was out for a year and a half before the reduction. PS3 - a little over six months for half the price drop on the same original price. TVs generally don't drop that soon after first introduction either. It is a phone and that market is different, though I don't think anyone expected Apple to follow market conventions on this particular bit - usually Apple bumps up features before dropping prices even if their competitors are dropping prices instead.

I don't think people were owed the $100 credit at all, but I really don't think the drop was a shining moment of customer relations either. The credit was a pretty good show of good faith.
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post #77 of 85
9/6/07 at 4:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

Well, its not only depth, that's bigger, but height/width that are bigger if you compare them in the same orientation.

And I seriously doubt that the Creative device has anywhere near the desktop integration that iTunes gives. But to each his own. Creative has always made a nice device for what it is. I just prefer to manage on the desktop.

I think the management of both is "on the desktop". It's a matter of whether you want iTunes or to use a regular file management program, I think, assuming it doesn't require a different proprietary program to manage.
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post #78 of 85
9/6/07 at 4:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

I think the management of both is "on the desktop". It's a matter of whether you want iTunes or to use a regular file management program, I think, assuming it doesn't require a different proprietary program to manage.

I actually think it does, it's currently only compatible with Windows so that has me thinking that you have to use some propriety program to transfer files. That's a little crappy since my laptop is dying/pissing me off right now and I'm thinking of switching away from Windows.
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post #79 of 85
9/6/07 at 4:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrpiddly View Post

As for their marketing:



LOL!!!

The box for my sprint phone had a vaguely similar picture of a guy basking in the sunlight glow of the phone. I just don't see why they put pictures of people "using" the product on the box, the composition always looked retarded to me.
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post #80 of 85
9/6/07 at 8:31pm
Ok, enough whining about the iPhone, and yes I bought one day one.

Anyways does any one think that it is a little bit ridiculous to call the new Nano a dark horse for the holidays? I don't know if people remember like the last 5 years when the iPod has been the hottest thing to to get for Christmas? I think my analysis would be that the new Nano will follow the old Nano being the #1 hottest gift for the holidays....

Am I wrong? And if I am not how can I become an analyst because it seems like they probably make a lot of money.
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