or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPhone › Apple sells one millionth iPhone
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Apple sells one millionth iPhone - Page 4

post #121 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

No, not any more than a press for the Mac in the corporate environment. It's outside their demographic really.

I would tend to disagree. On the desktop, its out of their demographic, but in phones? It's fairly open in comparison. The Palm OS is faltering a bit, Windows Mobile has been around for years and is NOT setting the world on fire. RIM is tough, but not utterly dominant. Apple can make some hay here, if they choose to.


Quote:
And the other 90% of the market share is at commodity pricing. Which means from Apple's perspective they don't matter. Why on earth would they try to compete in the volume market any more than they want to compete in the $350 PC market?

I dunno V.... the Shuffle is a volume market, commodity item, yet Apple chooses to compete there. I guess they feel they can still make a profit on it.

In any case, Apple can make their 10M number in 2008 whether or not they choose to compete outside the smartphone market. What's your concern here?

Quote:
RIM only sold 1.4M in Q2 2007. Apple needs to do better than that make their 10M mark by end of 2008.

Agreed, but I don't think that competing with RIM in enterprise limits them to RIM's market share. Why on earth would it?


Quote:
Which are coming and everyone knows is coming. Why harp on "Apple must do X by end of 2008" when there's likely a 3G annoucement in the next week or month?

We don't know that Apple is going to announce 3G iPhones in the next week or month, and even if they do, that would be for the European launch, not the US. Let's wait and see before we count our chickens, eh?

I'm not really harping or anything, I'm just getting a surprising amount of pushback from RDFers who keep repeating the mantra that "the iPhone is doing fine without 3G" and are not really understanding that that's the US market, and only for a limited time. It's obvious that 3G is going to be on the iPhone sooner rather than later, and I can only hope that next week's announcement makes it VERY soon, rather than 'pretty soon'. But I will not pretend to 'know' for certain that that's what they're going to announce.


Quote:
Skepticism or cynicism? One of the best phone product launches and it's "Not Bad"? Please. Apple can falter but it did awesome with the iPhone launch.

The launch isn't the problem. How the iPhone does going forward is. I thought that was obvious.

And yes, it's healthy skepticism, not cynicism.

.
Cut-copy-paste, MMS, landscape keyboard, video-recording, voice-calling, and more... FINALLY
To the 'We Didn't Need It' Crowd/Apple Apologista Squad : Wrong again, lol
Thanks for listening to your...
Reply
Cut-copy-paste, MMS, landscape keyboard, video-recording, voice-calling, and more... FINALLY
To the 'We Didn't Need It' Crowd/Apple Apologista Squad : Wrong again, lol
Thanks for listening to your...
Reply
post #122 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBaggins View Post

It's not absurd at all, if you're talking about high-end phones. We are.

$399 starting for the base model is hardly aggressive in your product line.

Quote:
Yep. Take the Boxster, for example. It is indeed aggressively priced... for a Porsche.

No, its not. Aggressively priced for a Porsche was the 924/944/968. Those cars are long gone.

The Boxster is Porsche's entry level model but that's also like saying that the Apple Mini is aggressively priced.

Quote:
I think the problem you're running into is that you don't see that aggressive pricing is relative to market segment, and are instead seeing things in absolutist terms.

No, we're looking at market segments where they don't compete on price as much as cachet. No one paying $400+ for a phone really give a hoot about the price. Likewise price for luxury roadsters is a distant consideration vs performance, comfort and bragging rights.

Quote:
Yeah... apples and oranges. Apple doesn't subsidize the price of the iPhone. But if they did, they could come close to Curve prices, given the recent price drop.

You can't have it both ways. The fact is that the iPhone is NOT subsidized anywhere while the pricing for other phones assumes some level of subsidy. Given that a phone is useless without purchasing service from SOMEONE then overall you're paying a lot more for an iPhone over a BlackJack or a Curve.

Quote:
Doesn't matter, honestly. Because the price war you're talking about is for bare bones, entry-level cars. The iPhone is not an entry-level, barebones phone. \

And therefore doesn't compete as much on price as other aspects. The Mac Pro is competitively priced but not in a price war. You don't do price wars in the market segments that you need to make profits on. This is why the Dell equivalent is more expensive than the Mac Pro even though the Mac Pro has 28%+ margins.

The post is there to refute your assertion that $10K cars don't exist in the US.

Quote:
It is... for a Porsche.

You can claim anything you want but it doesn't make it true.

Quote:
A market is a market is a market. Just because the iPhone is an upscale market, does not mean that it can't be aggressive on price. Why then did Jobs say "we really wanted to go for it for the holidays", regarding the price cut? If the iPhone is a true luxury item, then price cuts shouldn't matter.

If they really wanted to "go for it" they could have gone $299 and continued the 4GB model. Apple is less interested in selling 10M units than they are making large margins.

Quote:
The reason why your car comparison is, frankly, crap, is that phones really AREN'T luxury items. Even a relatively poor person can scrape together enough to buy an iPhone. But a poor or even middle-class person can't really save up for a Bentley, unless they wish to live in it. \

Riiight. The most expensive phone in the world is $1.3M. The Vertu is $3K-300K. The Black Diamond is $300K.

Yeah, the iPhone is aggressively priced in comparison to the Vertu. Of course, in your mind the $3K Vertu is also aggressively priced...because concievably I could buy one. Of course, I'd be found dead the next morning after my wife found out.

Come off it. Dropping to $399 makes the iPhone less unreasonable for anyone without a lot of disposable income. Not aggressively priced. I don't care about a 2 year contract if it would get me an iPhone for $99 or even $199. Done. Easy decision. They'd hit their 10M number easy. Hell, I'd get 2.
post #123 of 166
Quote:
I'm just getting a surprising amount of pushback from RDFers who keep repeating the mantra that "the iPhone is doing fine without 3G" and are not really understanding that that's the US market, and only for a limited time.

How is it RDF that the iPhone sold well without 3G. The sales numbers clearly show it sold well without 3G, none of us are making that up.

How can anyone not possibly understand these are US sales? Currently the phone isn't sold anywhere else. All we have is US sales.

Yes we know its a limited time, because the iPhone will only be sold without 3G for a limited time. Jobs told us that last January at its introduction.

Quote:
That is correct. But BB has a lot more models than Apple, hence their sales are going to be split more ways. Overall, BB beat Apple pretty handily.

True BB has about seven different choices. But still its a more mature product and has a larger following. This is the iPhone's first full quarter of sales.

I would not call 2-1 a handy beating. I would call it a wake up call to RIM that your growth curve maybe flat.

Quote:
Apple is very likely to find that the US is their strongest market, just as it is for Macs. They NEED to be running well above 1% marketshare here, to balance out markets where they're going to be weaker/less popular/the competition is going to be tougher.

The US is the strongest market for RIM, Palm, and Windows Mobile also. Symbian dominates Europe.
post #124 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

$399 starting for the base model is hardly aggressive in your product line.

Yeah, it is. Especially if you were pricing at $599 just a few days ago.

It's also aggressive for what the iPhone is.


Quote:
No, its not. Aggressively priced for a Porsche was the 924/944/968. Those cars are long gone.

And thus, irrelevant. For Porsche's current line-up, yes, the Boxster is aggressively priced. Sorry about your nostalgia, but it is.


Quote:
No one paying $400+ for a phone really give a hoot about the price.

Steve Jobs appears to disagree with you. What did he say just last week? Oh yeah: "We cut the price because we really wanted to GO FOR IT for the holiday season." If price doesn't matter, then WOW, the joke sure is on Stevie J. He cut the price for NO REASON! People don't give a HOOT about price!


Quote:
Likewise price for luxury roadsters is a distant consideration vs performance, comfort and bragging rights.

It's a consideration if the difference between $40K and $65K means you can't afford it. Not much comfort, performance, or bragging rights to be had if the car isn't in your driveway.


Quote:
You can't have it both ways. The fact is that the iPhone is NOT subsidized anywhere while the pricing for other phones assumes some level of subsidy. Given that a phone is useless without purchasing service from SOMEONE then overall you're paying a lot more for an iPhone over a BlackJack or a Curve.

Over a Blackjack or a Curve? Sure. Over all other subsidized phones? No, not so much. Even when we compare apples to oranges, you can find phones in the iPhone's price ballpark.

The Treo 700wx, for example, is $550 on Verizon with a 1-yr contract. With MIR and online discount I believe you can get that down to $350, but still, very close to iPhone pricing. ATT has a PocketPC smartphone that goes for $650 w/a 1-yr contract; with MIRs and online discounts maybe you get it down to $400. And when the N95 is offered through ATT, it will likely be more expensive than any of those, and more expensive than the iPhone as well.

So there are other phones, subsidized or not, that are in the iPhone's price range. What was your point again?


Quote:
And therefore doesn't compete as much on price as other aspects. The Mac Pro is competitively priced but not in a price war. You don't do price wars in the market segments that you need to make profits on.

And yet, Apple cuts the price 33% almost right out of the gate. Uh huh.

Quote:
The post is there to refute your assertion that $10K cars don't exist in the US.

You know, I just went over to CarsDirect.com, and its not giving me an Aveo for $10K... more like $11K. And even if it did, I have a feeling that, real-world, with taxes, title, license... I wouldn't be getting off the lot for $10k. But, who really cares? It's a POS anyhow.


Quote:
You can claim anything you want but it doesn't make it true.

I never felt I was 'claiming' anything. Truths are self-evident.


Quote:
If they really wanted to "go for it" they could have gone $299 and continued the 4GB model. Apple is less interested in selling 10M units than they are making large margins.

That doesn't really make a dent in the central point, which is if the iPhone is a luxury item, and price doesn't matter, why then bother to cut the price? It wouldn't make a difference, right?

Sorry Vin, but it's evident that you lose that point.


Quote:
Riiight. The most expensive phone in the world is $1.3M. The Vertu is $3K-300K. The Black Diamond is $300K.

Fair enough... phones that people have actually heard of, including the iPhone, are not luxury items.


Quote:
Yeah, the iPhone is aggressively priced in comparison to the Vertu. Of course, in your mind the $3K Vertu is also aggressively priced...because concievably I could buy one. Of course, I'd be found dead the next morning after my wife found out.

The Vertu is not competition for the iPhone, so the comparison is irrelevant, really. What would matter is if the iPhone is priced well versus things like high-end Treos, high-end Blackberries, Nokia N95s, and the upcoming tidal wave of iPhone imitators.

And I think your wife example proves the point that there's a difference between what market the iPhone is in, and what market a $3K Vertu is in. You buy an iPhone, your wife doesn't kill you. You buy a Vertu, she does. Why? Because the Vertu is a luxury item. The iPhone, isn't.

Quote:
Come off it. Dropping to $399 makes the iPhone less unreasonable for anyone without a lot of disposable income. Not aggressively priced.

LOL. Same thing.

.
Cut-copy-paste, MMS, landscape keyboard, video-recording, voice-calling, and more... FINALLY
To the 'We Didn't Need It' Crowd/Apple Apologista Squad : Wrong again, lol
Thanks for listening to your...
Reply
Cut-copy-paste, MMS, landscape keyboard, video-recording, voice-calling, and more... FINALLY
To the 'We Didn't Need It' Crowd/Apple Apologista Squad : Wrong again, lol
Thanks for listening to your...
Reply
post #125 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

How is it RDF that the iPhone sold well without 3G. The sales numbers clearly show it sold well without 3G, none of us are making that up.

It's not RDF to think that the iPhone can do pretty well initially in the US market without 3G. It IS RDF to say that the iPhone doesn't really need 3G, can wait two years to go 3G in the US, will do great in Europe without 3G, etc. I've heard all of those things from RDFers, and at least one of those from you specifically.

Quote:
How can anyone not possibly understand these are US sales? Currently the phone isn't sold anywhere else. All we have is US sales.

Yeah, duh. Re-read what I'm saying, maybe it'll hit you the second time through.

Quote:
Yes we know its a limited time, because the iPhone will only be sold without 3G for a limited time. Jobs told us that last January at its introduction.

Our disagreement is over how limited that time should be. You've said two years or more. I say, 6-12 months, tops.


Quote:
True BB has about seven different choices. But still its a more mature product and has a larger following. This is the iPhone's first full quarter of sales.

I would not call 2-1 a handy beating. I would call it a wake up call to RIM that your growth curve maybe flat.

I'm not really dissing Apple on that one. To get beat 2 to 1 by RIM is no shame, especially for a newcomer.


Quote:
The US is the strongest market for RIM, Palm, and Windows Mobile also. Symbian dominates Europe.

Yeah, the point is, Apple needs to run well above 1% in the US to meet their worldwide goal of 1% marketshare, because the competition is likely going to be tougher elsewhere.

Europe has tons of feature-rich high-end phones, more than we do, and the phone selection/competition in Asia is, well... let's just say that Japan and South Korea are about two years ahead of the US in what their handsets can do versus what our handsets can do. And that might be a conservative estimate.

.
Cut-copy-paste, MMS, landscape keyboard, video-recording, voice-calling, and more... FINALLY
To the 'We Didn't Need It' Crowd/Apple Apologista Squad : Wrong again, lol
Thanks for listening to your...
Reply
Cut-copy-paste, MMS, landscape keyboard, video-recording, voice-calling, and more... FINALLY
To the 'We Didn't Need It' Crowd/Apple Apologista Squad : Wrong again, lol
Thanks for listening to your...
Reply
post #126 of 166
Quote:
It's not RDF to think that the iPhone can do pretty well initially in the US market without 3G.

That's all I've said.

Quote:
It IS RDF to say that the iPhone doesn't really need 3G, can wait two years to go 3G in the US, will do great in Europe without 3G,

I've haven't said the phone never needs 3G. How well it will do in Europe without 3G, I really don't know. Others have debated that but I've been quiet about it because I don't live in Europe.

From what I've read there are 478 million mobile phone users in Europe. Which is nearly 100% of the market. And 45 million of those users are 3G subscribers.

Quote:
let's just say that Japan and South Korea are about two years ahead of the US in what their handsets can do versus what our handsets can do. And that might be a conservative estimate.

I have not weighed in any particular opinion of Asia either as I don't live there. I'm not sure what Apple needs to do in Asia. Their are some significant cultural differences between the US and Asia with technology. Asian's can be very loyal to their home companies and shun foreign gadgets.

I'm not so sure they are ahead of us as we both want different things. We don't care for convergent gadgets as much as they do. I'm not interested in buying stuff with my phone. If I loose it or it gets stolen does that mean someone else could have open access to my credit card or bank account?
post #127 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

I've haven't said the phone never needs 3G.


No, you've just downplayed or not understood the need for it at every turn, since even before the launch.

Teno, take a good long look at your 2.5G iPhone, assuming you have one... in a few months, mid '08 at latest, it will be a quaint relic. Apple knows it needs to go 3G pretty quickly, yes, even on the US iPhone. The initial sales are pretty good? Great, I predicted they'd have a good launch months before it happened. The real problem is what happens next.

Nokia, Motorola, Samsung, LG, Sony-Ericsson, Palm, RIM etc are not just going to roll over and watch the iPhone eat their lunch. The parade of iPhone clones will start hitting soon, prolly starting around Q1 '08. And yes, they'll have touchscreens, and they'll have features missing from the iPhone on top of that: GPS, MMS, voice-dialing, and yup, 3G in most or all cases.

Will they be as good as the iPhone, overall? I very much doubt it. But will they be 'good enough', and steal some potential iPhone customers? Yeah, they might... especially if they have major selling points over the iPhone. The clones having 3G while the iPhone sticks with 2.5G would be such a selling point. Makes for some pretty nifty commercials too.

The iPhone launch has been a good one... Apple orchestrated the marketing, hype and anticipation magnificently, what they did will likely be studied in the business schools for years to come. But that doesn't matter anymore. And after the holidays, here comes the competition. 'The Empire Strikes Back', as it were.

Teno, you were wrong about a lot of 3G-related things in the run up to launch, maybe you just find it an annoying, opaque technology in general. But it is the future of the iPhone, and lot sooner than you thought.

And once it is, you'll find that Apple's 'EDGE is just fine!' spin will very quickly change to '3G is the best thing since sliced bread!'. Maybe then you'll finally go, "Ok, this is pretty cool, actually." :cool:

.
Cut-copy-paste, MMS, landscape keyboard, video-recording, voice-calling, and more... FINALLY
To the 'We Didn't Need It' Crowd/Apple Apologista Squad : Wrong again, lol
Thanks for listening to your...
Reply
Cut-copy-paste, MMS, landscape keyboard, video-recording, voice-calling, and more... FINALLY
To the 'We Didn't Need It' Crowd/Apple Apologista Squad : Wrong again, lol
Thanks for listening to your...
Reply
post #128 of 166
Quote:
No, you've just downplayed or not understood the need for it at every turn, since even before the launch.

No, all I've said is that the phone was not doomed upon launch in the US without 3G. That was shown to be true by its sales numbers. I've agreed that the phone should get 3G as soon it can, which Jobs has already said it will. If its absolutely doomed in Europe and Asia without 3G - OK - I've never argued against that.

Quote:
Teno, take a good long look at your 2.5G iPhone, assuming you have one... in a few months, mid '08 at latest, it will be a quaint relic.

I wouldn't be so dramatic to to say relic. But yes it will be supplanted by a newer model. That's the way it is with all technology. In a few months my iPhone will still do what I bought it to do, at some point it will have updated functionality beyond what it had when I bought it.

Quote:
The parade of iPhone clones will start hitting soon, prolly starting around Q1 '08. And yes, they'll have touchscreens, and they'll have features missing from the iPhone on top of that: GPS, MMS, voice-dialing, and yup, 3G in most or all cases.

People said this was going to happen in the six months from iPhone's introduction to its launch. Its now nine months later and we still have nothing.

Quote:
Teno, you were wrong about a lot of 3G-related things in the run up to launch, maybe you just find it an annoying, opaque technology in general. But it is the future of the iPhone, and lot sooner than you thought.

I don't know the those "lot of 3G related things" were. All I said is the phone wasn't doomed to failure without 3G in the US launch, and it wasn't. I speculated that Apple could have 3G chips in the phone that are later activated by a software update. I guess you can point and say I was wrong about that. I was only looking at possibilities, I never said I knew for sure Apple was going to do that. But if you really need to cling to that, then OK.

Quote:
And once it is, you'll find that Apple's 'EDGE is just fine!' spin will very quickly change to '3G is the best thing since sliced bread!'. Maybe then you'll finally go, "Ok, this is pretty cool, actually." :cool:

Why does this have to be so black and white Baggins. Why do you have to be for 3G or against 3G with nothing in the middle? I have nothing against 3G.

But truthfully yes EDGE does work. There was a thread were a guy avidly defended EDGE against Melgross saying EGDE was comparable to EDVO. I countered that saying EDVO was must faster than EDGE. That EDGE isn't great but it does work.

On top of that all flavors of 3G aren't even the same. From what I've read UTMS is on marginally faster than EDGE. For GSM to get into high speed needs HSDPA. Which is a newer implementation that AT&T does not have widely deployed.
post #129 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

I've agreed that the phone should get 3G as soon it can

No. Back then you were saying that the iPhone could go two years or more without going 3G, and that would be fine. Why the historical revisionism? Is it really that hard to admit, "Ok, I was wrong about that?". Yeesh.

If what you're referring to is that your view of that has changed recently, great. But that's definitely not what you were saying before.


Quote:
People said this was going to happen in the six months from iPhone's introduction to its launch. Its now nine months later and we still have nothing.

There's already an FCC approval for the LG VX10000, which appears to be a touchscreen combination of the Prada and enV, both very significant phones. And it's just the first in a wave of clones. Do you honestly doubt that?

2007 was the Year of the iPhone. 2008 will be the Year of the iPhone Clone unless Apple's careful. No doubt they know this.


Quote:
I don't know the those "lot of 3G related things" were. All I said is the phone wasn't doomed to failure without 3G in the US launch, and it wasn't. I speculated that Apple could have 3G chips in the phone that are later activated by a software update. I guess you can point and say I was wrong about that. I was only looking at possibilities, I never said I knew for sure Apple was going to do that. But if you really need to cling to that, then OK.

Most of the '3G people' weren't saying that the iPhone was 'teh doomed' from Day 1 without 3G. There was a recognition that Apple was going to have a good launch no matter what. So there was really no reason to spread the Apple RDF about how 3G didn't really matter, or that Apple could go with 2.5G until 2009 (lol).

What most of them were saying was that Apple needed to go 3G soon in the US (which you argued against, and were wrong about also), and definitely needed 3G for Europe and Asia.

And it wasn't that you were wrong about the 3G stuff Teno, after all, it's AI, people here throw out shoot-from-the-hip opinions every day that are wrong. It was that people tried to explain to you many times why you were wrong, and you basically clapped your hands over your ears and went "Lalalalalalala!".


Quote:
But truthfully yes EDGE does work. There was a thread were a guy avidly defended EDGE against Melgross saying EGDE was comparable to EDVO. I countered that saying EDVO was must faster than EDGE. That EDGE isn't great but it does work.

On top of that all flavors of 3G aren't even the same. From what I've read UTMS is on marginally faster than EDGE. For GSM to get into high speed needs HSDPA. Which is a newer implementation that AT&T does not have widely deployed.

LOL, even now you're an EDGE-defender. Teno, don't bother. Even Apple doesn't like EDGE, they never did. And don't worry too much about HSDPA coverage, ATT is building it out, and the phone chipsets support both HSDPA and EDGE, so it's not an either-or choice, never was. If EDGE is all that's available in your 'hood, it'll do that, and if you have HSDPA in your area, it'll do that. Win-win.

Thing is, all that was explained to you months ago. \


.
Cut-copy-paste, MMS, landscape keyboard, video-recording, voice-calling, and more... FINALLY
To the 'We Didn't Need It' Crowd/Apple Apologista Squad : Wrong again, lol
Thanks for listening to your...
Reply
Cut-copy-paste, MMS, landscape keyboard, video-recording, voice-calling, and more... FINALLY
To the 'We Didn't Need It' Crowd/Apple Apologista Squad : Wrong again, lol
Thanks for listening to your...
Reply
post #130 of 166
3G or Steve's legs are gettin' broken! Nobody will buy it over here without 3G, well not nobody, but faaaaar fewer. I definitely wont!
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of a rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
Reply
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of a rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
Reply
post #131 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

3G or Steve's legs are gettin' broken! Nobody will buy it over here without 3G, well not nobody, but faaaaar fewer. I definitely wont!

Well said.

Let's hope the Euro launch iPhone is indeed 3G. We'll be happy if it is, and so will Apple, sales-wise.


.
Cut-copy-paste, MMS, landscape keyboard, video-recording, voice-calling, and more... FINALLY
To the 'We Didn't Need It' Crowd/Apple Apologista Squad : Wrong again, lol
Thanks for listening to your...
Reply
Cut-copy-paste, MMS, landscape keyboard, video-recording, voice-calling, and more... FINALLY
To the 'We Didn't Need It' Crowd/Apple Apologista Squad : Wrong again, lol
Thanks for listening to your...
Reply
post #132 of 166
Ucchh! Is it Tuesday yet?
post #133 of 166
Quote:
What most of them were saying was that Apple needed to go 3G soon in the US (which you argued against, and were wrong about also), and definitely needed 3G for Europe and Asia.

I'm not going to keep going round and round about this. I've said what I think.

Quote:
LOL, even now you're an EDGE-defender

Well I have an iPhone and use EDGE, it does work. UMTS would be a little bit faster, HDSPA would be a lot faster. But that does not negate the fact that EDGE does work.

Quote:
2007 was the Year of the iPhone. 2008 will be the Year of the iPhone Clone unless Apple's careful. No doubt they know this.

Well its fairly easy to copy the iPhone's hardware. There isn't anything particular special or proprietary about most of its hardware. Except for the touchscreen.

But someone will need to do something radical to software. Most other phones have just used Windows Mobile or Symbian and placed a iPhone like UI over them. From what I've read that does not recreate the same experience as using the iPhone.

Quote:
Ucchh! Is it Tuesday yet?

There is either going to be gloating as though they collectively willed Apple to do something it was going to do anyway. Or a great gnashing of the teeth and curse upon Jobs name.
post #134 of 166
Yah, Apple not releasing 3G for Europe seems far fetched. And if that happens there's no reason to not also offer it in the US for AT&T's somewhat limited 3G deployment...which is HSDPA. Presumably the unit will need to do both?
post #135 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBaggins View Post

Well said.

Let's hope the Euro launch iPhone is indeed 3G. We'll be happy if it is, and so will Apple, sales-wise.


.

Indeedy.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of a rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
Reply
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of a rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
Reply
post #136 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

Yah, Apple not releasing 3G for Europe seems far fetched.

If Steve rode in on a sheep and said the European iPhone wont have any wireless and will be pedal-powered I just wouldn't be surprised. Apple is capable of anything these days.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of a rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
Reply
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of a rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
Reply
post #137 of 166
16gb iPhone, that's all I want at this point. Sure 32bg will be better, but will not happen this year.

I hope tomorrow we will see that.
MacPro 12 core
30" & 23" Apple Cinema HD Displays
PowerBook G4 550, MacBook Pro 2.2
Ipod 1G and 5G, Shuffle 2G, iPhone 3G
Reply
MacPro 12 core
30" & 23" Apple Cinema HD Displays
PowerBook G4 550, MacBook Pro 2.2
Ipod 1G and 5G, Shuffle 2G, iPhone 3G
Reply
post #138 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by gugy View Post

16gb iPhone, that's all I want at this point. Sure 32bg will be better, but will not happen this year.

I hope tomorrow we will see that.

Yes, plus 3G.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of a rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
Reply
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of a rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
Reply
post #139 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Yes, plus 3G.

sure 3G is fine, but there is info that power drainage for the iPhone will be bigger , etc.
At this point EDGE is OK. I understand in Europe is more important 3G than in USA.
So sure bring 3G, I don't mind.
Whatever. I want the dam 16gig.
MacPro 12 core
30" & 23" Apple Cinema HD Displays
PowerBook G4 550, MacBook Pro 2.2
Ipod 1G and 5G, Shuffle 2G, iPhone 3G
Reply
MacPro 12 core
30" & 23" Apple Cinema HD Displays
PowerBook G4 550, MacBook Pro 2.2
Ipod 1G and 5G, Shuffle 2G, iPhone 3G
Reply
post #140 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

I'm not going to keep going round and round about this. I've said what I think.

Teno, no offense, but given your track record on this issue, I'm gonna go with something, anything, other than what you think.

Quote:
There is either going to be gloating as though they collectively willed Apple to do something it was going to do anyway. Or a great gnashing of the teeth and curse upon Jobs name.

You don't even fully understand what's going on, do you? It's not about 'willing' anyone to do anything... it's about brutal competition in a worldwide market that moves a billion units a year, and is growing much faster than the PC market.

And, whether 3G comes now, or with the Asian launch in mid-'08, you were still wrong. The only question is, were you wrong by a year, or a year and a half? And now you're trying to make pronouncements? Wooo.

Far as Apple goes, they've obviously tried to have it both ways on 3G. To the point where I'm concerned that they might be hurting their potential European success by dragging ass on Euro 3G 'til the middle of next year. Hopefully good clones don't hit until the 3G iPhone does over there.

.
Cut-copy-paste, MMS, landscape keyboard, video-recording, voice-calling, and more... FINALLY
To the 'We Didn't Need It' Crowd/Apple Apologista Squad : Wrong again, lol
Thanks for listening to your...
Reply
Cut-copy-paste, MMS, landscape keyboard, video-recording, voice-calling, and more... FINALLY
To the 'We Didn't Need It' Crowd/Apple Apologista Squad : Wrong again, lol
Thanks for listening to your...
Reply
post #141 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

If Steve rode in on a sheep and said the European iPhone wont have any wireless and will be pedal-powered I just wouldn't be surprised. Apple is capable of anything these days.

But pedal-powered is better, dontcha know? Apple says so.

Well, until the non-pedal-powered model comes out, that is.


.
Cut-copy-paste, MMS, landscape keyboard, video-recording, voice-calling, and more... FINALLY
To the 'We Didn't Need It' Crowd/Apple Apologista Squad : Wrong again, lol
Thanks for listening to your...
Reply
Cut-copy-paste, MMS, landscape keyboard, video-recording, voice-calling, and more... FINALLY
To the 'We Didn't Need It' Crowd/Apple Apologista Squad : Wrong again, lol
Thanks for listening to your...
Reply
post #142 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBaggins View Post

Over a Blackjack or a Curve? Sure. Over all other subsidized phones? No, not so much. Even when we compare apples to oranges, you can find phones in the iPhone's price ballpark.

....

And when the N95 is offered through ATT, it will likely be more expensive than any of those, and more expensive than the iPhone as well.

The N95 is free according to some folks in Europe. So much for your assertion that the iPhone is aggressively priced vs its competition.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aegisdesign View Post

O2 have almost no 3G service where I am too but oddly the pub down the road has a Cloud hotspot.

£269 for the phone though is silly. You can get an N95 for free.

I suspect there will be a lot of people getting an N95 on O2 for free, plus an iPhone at £269, switching the SIM to the iPhone and then selling the N95 on eBay.

This is on top of revenue sharing with Apple. The iPhone is effectively subsidized.

Quote:
LOL. Same thing.

Not even close. The $399 price makes it somewhat more approachable but is by no means inexpensive even for high end phone buyers, some of whom expect even the N95 to be free with contract. $399 vs Free is hardly price competitive.

The iPhone competes in features (somewhat), ease of use (lots) and branding (mostly). It is not price competitive.

Vinea
post #143 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBaggins View Post

Teno, no offense, but given your track record on this issue, I'm gonna go with something, anything, other than what you think.

Given you absurd assertions that's the kettle calling the pot black.
post #144 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

Given you absurd assertions that's the kettle calling the pot black.

Just looked it up in the dictionary:


ab·surd [ab-surd, -zurd] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation

1.\tutterly or obviously senseless, illogical, or untrue; contrary to all reason or common sense; laughably foolish or false: an absurd explanation.
2.\tthe quality or condition of existing in a meaningless and irrational world.
3. most of what vinea has to say




.
Cut-copy-paste, MMS, landscape keyboard, video-recording, voice-calling, and more... FINALLY
To the 'We Didn't Need It' Crowd/Apple Apologista Squad : Wrong again, lol
Thanks for listening to your...
Reply
Cut-copy-paste, MMS, landscape keyboard, video-recording, voice-calling, and more... FINALLY
To the 'We Didn't Need It' Crowd/Apple Apologista Squad : Wrong again, lol
Thanks for listening to your...
Reply
post #145 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBaggins View Post


Nice false smiley. I guess you don't have a real response to the fact that the N95 is free.
post #146 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

The N95 is free according to some folks in Europe.

So much for your assertion that the iPhone is aggressively priced vs its competition.

That assumes that

1) the N95 is the only competition for the iPhone in Europe, and

2) Europe is the only market.

Both are very poor assumptions.


Quote:
Not even close. The $399 price makes it somewhat more approachable but is by no means inexpensive even for high end phone buyers, some of whom expect even the N95 to be free with contract. $399 vs Free is hardly price competitive.

Weren't you the guy arguing that 'price doesn't matter' for high-end phones just a few posts back, vinea?

You're so twisted in knots it's hard to know what you believe anymore.

In any case, yep, $399 vs free is hardly competitive, but its not like the N95 is the only competition the iPhone faces, or will be facing, in Europe.

Also, Europe is obviously not the only market... in the US, the N95 won't be even close to free ($499 might be a good guess), in large part 'cuz we don't give bigger phone discounts on high-dollar plans. Europe does.

Why are you so interested in exceptions that only go to prove the rule?


Quote:
The iPhone competes in features (somewhat), ease of use (lots) and branding (mostly). It is not price competitive.

Jobs seems to disagree with you. He dropped the price, in order to "go for it" during the Christmas season. His words, not mine.

If the price drop didn't make the iPhone more price competitive, then the joke sure was on Steve. He left hundreds of millions of dollars on the table for nothing.


.
Cut-copy-paste, MMS, landscape keyboard, video-recording, voice-calling, and more... FINALLY
To the 'We Didn't Need It' Crowd/Apple Apologista Squad : Wrong again, lol
Thanks for listening to your...
Reply
Cut-copy-paste, MMS, landscape keyboard, video-recording, voice-calling, and more... FINALLY
To the 'We Didn't Need It' Crowd/Apple Apologista Squad : Wrong again, lol
Thanks for listening to your...
Reply
post #147 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

Nice false smiley. I guess you don't have a real response to the fact that the N95 is free.

I was composing it even as you whined.

And what's a 'false smiley'? is 'cool guy with shades', dontcha know?

.
Cut-copy-paste, MMS, landscape keyboard, video-recording, voice-calling, and more... FINALLY
To the 'We Didn't Need It' Crowd/Apple Apologista Squad : Wrong again, lol
Thanks for listening to your...
Reply
Cut-copy-paste, MMS, landscape keyboard, video-recording, voice-calling, and more... FINALLY
To the 'We Didn't Need It' Crowd/Apple Apologista Squad : Wrong again, lol
Thanks for listening to your...
Reply
post #148 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBaggins View Post

That assumes that

1) the N95 is the only competition for the iPhone in Europe, and

2) Europe is the only market.

Both are very poor assumptions.

Neither are assumptions. It is your example phone being offered for free.

Quote:
Weren't you the guy arguing that 'price doesn't matter' for high-end phones just a few posts back, vinea?

No, I was saying that the iPhone doesn't compete on price. Twist words all you like but it doesn't change the fact that the iPhone isn't being priced very aggressively as you state.

Quote:
In any case, yep, $399 vs free is hardly competitive, but its not like the N95 is the only competition the iPhone faces, or will be facing, in Europe.

No, but again it was your example of a high end phone.

Quote:
Also, Europe is obviously not the only market... in the US, the N95 won't be even close to free ($499 might be a good guess), in large part 'cuz we don't give bigger phone discounts on high-dollar plans. Europe does.

Guess all you like but there isn't a single Verizon or Cingular SmartPhone for more than $399 today. Not one. So the Apple iPhone is STILL priced at or above all competitors.

By the time the N95 is offered likely the 16GB iPhone will be out and priced at or above $499.

Quote:
Why are you so interested in exceptions that only go to prove the rule?

Hardly an exception when you have not one single phone priced above the iPhone.

Quote:
Jobs seems to disagree with you. He dropped the price, in order to "go for it" during the Christmas season. His words, not mine.

Apple has also stated in the past that they were pursuing market share for the Mac. But not at the expense of margins. Therefore profit before share is Apple's behavior and remains so in this case OR they would be offering the iPhone for even less.

Quote:
If the price drop didn't make the iPhone more price competitive, then the joke sure was on Steve. He left hundreds of millions of dollars on the table for nothing.

Incorrect argument. The iPhone IS more competitive than before because it now has price parity with the other PDA phones from Verizon and AT&T. But it is neither "agressively priced", "cutting edge of a price war" or any other stupid assertion you've made. It is not competing on price or it would be $199 like the MOTO Q, 8830, 7100i BlackBerry, Treo 755p, 700wx etc. smart phones.

Or free like some other smart phones.

Apple is priced at the top end of the spectrum where pricing is less important than features as long as its not too out of whack with the competition. Now that its priced at the same level as other top end offerings at Verizon and AT&T as opposed to a couple hundred ABOVE those other top end phones then one can expect sales to increase while Apple maintains its traditional 28% margins. Perhaps even a bit more than 28% depending on how much less the new flash will cost Apple and how much revenue sharing Apple is getting from AT&T.

Vinea
post #149 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBaggins View Post

I was composing it even as you whined.

And what's a 'false smiley'? is 'cool guy with shades', dontcha know?

.

No, its a wimp attempt to insult someone and then pretend its all a fun jest. Whatever.

Do it or not. Don't try to hide behind a smiley.
post #150 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

No, its a wimp attempt to insult someone and then pretend its all a fun jest. Whatever.

Do it or not. Don't try to hide behind a smiley.


Trust me, if I wanted to insult you, you'd know.

.
Cut-copy-paste, MMS, landscape keyboard, video-recording, voice-calling, and more... FINALLY
To the 'We Didn't Need It' Crowd/Apple Apologista Squad : Wrong again, lol
Thanks for listening to your...
Reply
Cut-copy-paste, MMS, landscape keyboard, video-recording, voice-calling, and more... FINALLY
To the 'We Didn't Need It' Crowd/Apple Apologista Squad : Wrong again, lol
Thanks for listening to your...
Reply
post #151 of 166
Vinea, I just read your last (long) response, and frankly, laughed.

Look, I'm not going to get into deconstructing each others posts line-for-line forever and ever. Maybe you don't have much going on, but I do, and I'm here way too much as it is. And in the time chunks I spend here, there are better discussions to be had here than listening to go on and on (and on... ) about a point where the best result you're going to get is, "We agree to disagree."

I've also received PMs from other posters saying that I shouldn't bother debating with you further, as you apparently have a pattern of being rather tedious and 'difficult'.

So, to sum up, you feel that the iPhone doesn't compete on price. I think it's obvious from the steep, early price cut, that Apple believes that it does. Even if you refuse to accept it.

If that doesn't satisfy you, oh well. So be a dear and hit the lights on your way out of the thread, 'mkay? Thanks.


.
Cut-copy-paste, MMS, landscape keyboard, video-recording, voice-calling, and more... FINALLY
To the 'We Didn't Need It' Crowd/Apple Apologista Squad : Wrong again, lol
Thanks for listening to your...
Reply
Cut-copy-paste, MMS, landscape keyboard, video-recording, voice-calling, and more... FINALLY
To the 'We Didn't Need It' Crowd/Apple Apologista Squad : Wrong again, lol
Thanks for listening to your...
Reply
post #152 of 166
this is amazing, I can't wait to get an Iphone, can' afford one at the moment.
Get your Ipod touch free. Ships September 28th. Just go to this link. I received an Nano Ipod (1st gen) and Ipod Video (5.5G). Great site.
http://freeipod.headplug.com/
Reply
Get your Ipod touch free. Ships September 28th. Just go to this link. I received an Nano Ipod (1st gen) and Ipod Video (5.5G). Great site.
http://freeipod.headplug.com/
Reply
post #153 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBaggins View Post

I've also received PMs from other posters saying that I shouldn't bother debating with you further, as you're something of a known loon here.

Say hi to Mel. Nice personal attack.

V
post #154 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

Nice false smiley. I guess you don't have a real response to the fact that the N95 is free.

It would be nice if some of the posters who go to all this trouble to research a 'free' phone which you get 'with a 2 year contract' (or 18 months or whatever it is) would take the time to actually post the total cost of ownership and compare those numbers. When I did that in the US the iPhone was one of the cheapest 'smart' phones (or whatever you want to call it) out there. The N95 is definitely not free.

TANSTAAFL
post #155 of 166
Name-calling is not allowed.
--Johnny
Reply
--Johnny
Reply
post #156 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by physguy View Post

It would be nice if some of the posters who go to all this trouble to research a 'free' phone which you get 'with a 2 year contract' (or 18 months or whatever it is) would take the time to actually post the total cost of ownership and compare those numbers. When I did that in the US the iPhone was one of the cheapest 'smart' phones (or whatever you want to call it) out there. The N95 is definitely not free.

TANSTAAFL

Depends on the amount of messaging you do. The $20 data plan is $9 cheaper than the normal $29 plan but only has 200 SMS messages vs 1500 on the regular plan. Which is the same as the middle data plan for the iPhone.

The total cost isn't all that different at the end of 24 months.

iPhone = $399 + $1416 = $1815 (200 SMS/month)
Blackjack = $99 + $1679 = $1778 (1500 SMS/month)

I guess with SmartPhone Connect Unlimited w/Xpress Mail its also only $20 a month but with no messaging at all. Hmm...add 200 messages for $5.

Blackjack = $99 + $1559 = $1658 (200 SMS/month)
Blackjack = $99 + $1416 = $1515 (0 SMS/month)

Of course, with the iPhone, if you opt for the 2 year contract you can get a backup Blackjack for only $99 or a 3125 for $50. The 3125 is actually a pretty nice little smartphone. No keyboard and tiny but for $50 its kinda nifty for a flip phone.

Is the iPhone the cheapest? No. Is it that much more expensive? Only by $150-$300 over the course of 24 months as might be expected from the price difference.
post #157 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Yes, I do (the slip, that is). I'm not the only one either. The stories on this had also reported "by the end of next year". There must be a good reason for that.

This simple "next year" stuff means nothing specific by itself. It could mean the beginning of the year, the middle, or the end.

We have to look a bit more critically. The beginning of the year is obviously out. The market simply couldn't support that. European distribution will have begun only a month or so before.

The middle of the year looks more interesting, but as before with Europe, the Asian market will only have been penetrated for a short while.

Neither of these seems to be a good candidate for 10 million sales. Only the end of the year makes any sense.

Now, I'm not saying that Apple won't sell more than 10 million by the end of 2008. But, I am saying the the momentum will be building as the new markets open up. There would be a very tight timeline for 10 million sales by end of june 2008.

I don't think that Jobs wants to cut it that close. just a bit, and Apple misses forecasts. That's not the purpose of forecasts like this. Apple has to beat it, and beat it with marginfor sure.

Remember that you can always raise forecasts but once offered, you can never lower them without suffering a black eye.

In the call yesterday, Steve repeated (again) his prediction of 10 million iPhones sold during calendar year 2008. At this point, is there anyone still in denial about this? Or are we going to insist that he misspoke yet again about it?
post #158 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by minderbinder View Post

In the call yesterday, Steve repeated (again) his prediction of 10 million iPhones sold during calendar year 2008. At this point, is there anyone still in denial about this? Or are we going to insist that he misspoke yet again about it?

I beg to differ, but there is NO question now. The date is the end of Apple's 2008 financial year, which was what was said in the conference call.

As I mentioned in anther forum, we are all right. The interpretations can go where they will. The end of Apple's 2008 financial year is at the end of the 2008 third quarter.

There is no "during".

Let's leave it now.
post #159 of 166
Sorry, but you obviously haven't listened to the call.

They specifically said shipping 10 million IN 2008, not 10 million by the end of 2008.

Go listen to the conference call, it's at the 27 minute mark.
post #160 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by minderbinder View Post

Sorry, but you obviously haven't listened to the call.

They specifically said shipping 10 million IN 2008, not 10 million by the end of 2008.

Go listen to the conference call, it's at the 27 minute mark.

We have different reference points. The times reports that Apple is saying end of year, as jobs did earlier this year in an interview with CNBC.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: iPhone
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPhone › Apple sells one millionth iPhone