or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Other Discussion › AppleOutsider › PoliticalOutsider › War with Iran inevitable: do you support Iran's right to self-defence?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

War with Iran inevitable: do you support Iran's right to self-defence? - Page 4

post #121 of 309
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Perhaps the weapons - IF they are being supplied - are being used to defend Shi'ites from Wahabi Sunni attacks now the US has turned Iraq into a hellhole.

No, the Shia have the population and the large militias - Iran is attempting Iraqi genocide against Iraqi Sunnis, and is also trying to eject and embarrass the US.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/deepak...q_b_46372.html

PS - I know for sure that you are out of intellectual ammo when you site the H-word (Hitler). I win, heh heh heh.
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
Reply
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
Reply
post #122 of 309
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

The only good thing is that there's always a Stalingrad

...Iraq is our Stalingrad. Shame Hilter didn't have nuclear weapons though. He'd be playing a different tune.



Godwin FTW!
post #123 of 309
Quote:
Originally Posted by @_@ Artman View Post

Shame Hilter didn't have nuclear weapons though.

I'm pretty sure that is way, off the radar, offensive. You wanted Hitler to win? [Damn - I have been sidetracked by Artman's ADHD again, it is the non-sequitur curse!).
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
Reply
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
Reply
post #124 of 309
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

No, the Shia have the population and the large militias - Iran is attempting Iraqi genocide against Iraqi Sunnis, and is also trying to eject and embarrass the US.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/deepak...q_b_46372.html

PS - I know for sure that you are out of intellectual ammo when you site the H-word (Hitler). I win, heh heh heh.

Deepak Chopra?

Ok, right.....

Btw, Al Qaeda are Sunni...so are the Taleban....

I would say that the Shi'i are the ones who are resisting the Sunni extremist attacks. Of course the US cannot admit this for the same reason they would not mention or act on the Saudi nationality of the 911 hijackers....

I think you will also find that these same Sunni extremists are killing Christians also - only these are not resisting.....just dying.

And not even the US is blaming the murders of the Christians on Iran - they are just ignoring it....
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #125 of 309
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

I would say that the Shi'i are the ones who are resisting the Sunni extremist attacks. Of course the US cannot admit this for the same reason they would not mention or act on the Saudi nationality of the 911 hijackers....

I think you will also find that these same Sunni extremists are killing Christians also - only these are not resisting.....just dying.

And not even the US is blaming the murders of the Christians on Iran - they are just ignoring it....

I don't blame the Sunnis in Iraq for 9/11 or for the Taliban, but I do blame the Al Sadir' militia for wiping out whole Sunni neighborhoods in Baghdad. Iran is aiding ethnic cleansing, and there is no way that the Sunnis are going to end up on the winning side of this civil war, because they have such a small percentage of the population.

If the US wants to get things settled down, they first have to bomb the crap out of Iran - once the supply of weapons drys up, the Shia will have to settle into a power-sharing arrangement with the sunnis. Bombing Iran without taking out the core leadership of the military will let Iran remain a whole country, and allow it to avoid civil war, but will make it focus on rebuilding inside its own borders instead of inciting riots in Iraq.
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
Reply
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
Reply
post #126 of 309
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

I don't blame the Sunnis in Iraq for 9/11 or for the Taliban, but I do blame the Al Sadir' militia for wiping out whole Sunni neighborhoods in Baghdad. Iran is aiding ethnic cleansing, and there is no way that the Sunnis are going to end up on the winning side of this civil war, because they have such a small percentage of the population.

Hold on.....Bush keeps saying that al Qaeda are orchestrating the chaos in Iraq....are you saying you don't blame them????

What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #127 of 309
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Hold on.....Bush keeps saying that al Qaeda are orchestrating the chaos in Iraq....are you saying you don't blame them????


I am not a Bush supporter, I think you have me mixed up with somebody else. Bush and I do agree on some things, but overall I think he is an incompetent boob.
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
Reply
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
Reply
post #128 of 309
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

I'm pretty sure that is way, off the radar, offensive. You wanted Hitler to win? [Damn - I have been sidetracked by Artman's ADHD again, it is the non-sequitur curse!).

= SARCASM.

Blather on...
post #129 of 309
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

I found the words you were looking for that might help identify your ailment: Verbal Diarrhea.

Basically the sufferer just spouts any old nonsense and sees no need to back any of it up - it isn't about debate, it's about emptying the bowels, so to speak.

Good that we know so as people don't confuse it with real debate...

. You're the only one around here spreading VD!
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
Reply
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
Reply
post #130 of 309
Senate voting on amendment to authorize war against Iran. TODAY.

Quote:
It's a "Sense of the Senate" resolution, which means it has no legal force, but as the Congressional Research Service will tell you, "foreign governments pay close attention to [such resolutions] as evidence of shifts in U.S. foreign policy priorities." If you want you can read it yourself (.doc), but here are the most important paragraphs:

Quote:
(3) that it should be the policy of the United States to combat, contain, and roll back the violent activities and destabilizing influence inside Iraq of the Government of the Islamic Republic of Iran, its foreign facilitators such as Lebanese Hezbollah, and its indigenous Iraqi proxies;

(4) to support the prudent and calibrated use of all instruments of United States national power in Iraq, including diplomatic, economic, intelligence, and military instruments, in support of the policy described in paragraph (3) with respect to the Government of the Islamic Republic of Iran and its proxies.

If something like this passes both the House and Senate, I think Bush could legitimately argue that between it, the War Powers Act and the 2001 and 2002 Authorizations to Use Military Force, he has all the authority he needs to attack Iran.

Stop Lieberman From SNEAKING An Iran War Declaration Through The Senate

This is happening right now. Today.
post #131 of 309
Thread Starter 
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #132 of 309
... early Wednesday morning and it's a decisive victory for the D's for the POTUS and major pickups in numerous House and Senate races (so much so, that even if an R retains the WH, the D's have enough seats in both houses to have veto override majorities).

Later that very same day GWB, DC, CR, and their noecon artist ilk are nowhere to be found.

As dusk settles darkness is truly about to fall on Iran, as it did a few hours earlier in Korea, as massive air strikes are launched against North Korea and Iran, from land, sea, and air ...

[CENTER][/CENTER]

\
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
Reply
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
Reply
post #133 of 309
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

but I do blame the Al Sadir' militia for wiping out whole Sunni neighborhoods in Baghdad.

And you can blame the Bush administration as an accomplice, since it would have never happened without removing Saddam from power.
eye
bee
BEE
Reply
eye
bee
BEE
Reply
post #134 of 309
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post


[CENTER][/CENTER]

\

[CENTER]


Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room.

\[/CENTER]
post #135 of 309
What I have learned in my life is that whatever a politician in a modern democracy says, when it comes to formulate foreign policy, is guaranteed not to be the truth.

The true goals are always hidden, because stating them publically, opens them up to critical analyses and more likely than not cause the public to not support them or worse to prevent their execution.

So, what politicans then do is to put up other fictive goals that when executed achieve the same result as the true goal, but it has the advantage that it can be criticized to death, and then be replaced by another fictitious goal, that achieves the same result.

In the case of the US, the true goal after 9/11 was to use the opportunity to exploit other countries, ie. to steal their ressources, companies and assets and to allow american companies to make a hell lot of profits.

But stating that goal publically would have caused a public outcry and revolt, causing the US leadership to be toppled and the execution to be prevented.

So what did the american politicians do? They camouflaged their true goals with goals that are way more sellable and agreeable.

9/11 was committed by Al-qaeeda a group that had its headquarter in Afghanistan and was protected by the Taliban.

The goal to punish them and to either kill or arrest the planners is understandable, and can be defended before and sold to the public. But in Afghanistan there is, except for making possible the establishment of an oil-pipeline, nearly nothing to be gained materially, there is no oil and there are no companies and assets to be privatised, ie. to be stolen.

But there's is Iraq, with the third biggest oil-ressources in the world, with a lot of state-companies and assets.

The official reasons and goals stated, to disarm Iraq of it's WMD's, to topple a hostile dictatorship and liberate the iraqi-people... are as fictitious as interchangeable, do they happen to be debunked.

The real goals can be seen by Bremer's economic policies. Bremer was only a bit over a year in Iraq, but in that time he acted basically as a dictator, not one serving the interests of the iraqis, one serving american interests. Right against international law regarding occupation, he changed the laws of Iraq, privatised 200 iraqi companies, issued laws, that allow international companies to buy and own 100% of the iraqi companies, and a law allowing foreign owners of iraqi companies to bring out 100% of the profits made with these companies, without having to pay taxes in Iraq...

Some of these laws were taken back after foreign investors pointed out that they could be overthrown by a souvereign iraqi government with the reason that they were internationally illegal.

So what did the US do in order to get them through legally? They opted to create a souvereign government with a constitution, that would then voluntarily approve of the privatisation of the numerous companies and assets, including the most interesting one, the oil.

For the case that the souvereign government of Iraq could be against the privatisation of iraqi assets, the US saw it through that the IMF and the worldbank gets in control of Iraq's economy, through the instrument of debt-relief.

Debt-relief sounds good but it is conditioned on the allowance to let the IMF and the worldbank to organize Iraq's economy, and both of these follow the principles and methods tried by Bremer, namely to sell all iraqi assets to foreign investors, except for the oil-segment, where there should only be a partial foreign ownership allowed.

Even if the military occupation will be ended sometime in the future, the economic one will last much longer.

One of the worst changes is in the agricultural sector, where the new imposed laws will disallow iraqi farmers to secure their seeds and replant to their wishes and instead force them to buy seed from american companies every year.

Nightcrawler
I disagree, and could prove you're wrong; care to offer any proof that you're not wrong?
Reply
I disagree, and could prove you're wrong; care to offer any proof that you're not wrong?
Reply
post #136 of 309
Quote:
Originally Posted by FormerLurker View Post

And you can blame the Bush administration as an accomplice, since it would have never happened without removing Saddam from power.

The previous system was unstable - the Sunni minority had 100% of the power. The current system has swung too far the other way - the Sunnis are in control of Kurdistan, but that is a de-facto country in itself separate from the rest of the country. The Sunnis in the south are now being butchered by Shia (backed by Iran).

There are two end-game states possible here. #1 - All the Sunnis dead (if the US picks up and leaves), or #2 - a power-sharing arrangement where both Sunnis and Shia get to live and have an appropriate amount of power wrt their population levels.

In order to get to #2 we have to bomb Iran, so as to get them to stop messing with us. We can't be successful in Iraq until we bomb the crap out of Iran. The motives for starting the Iraq war, everything in the past in fact, does not matter when deciding yes/no on the "bomb Iran?" question - only the going forward actions and results matter. The genocide in Iran will continue until we put the smack down on Iran - and smacking Iran will help Lebanon as a side effect.
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
Reply
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
Reply
post #137 of 309
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

The previous system was unstable - the Sunni minority had 100% of the power. The current system has swung too far the other way - the Sunnis are in control of Kurdistan, but that is a de-facto country in itself separate from the rest of the country. The Sunnis in the south are now being butchered by Shia (backed by Iran).

There are two end-game states possible here. #1 - All the Sunnis dead (if the US picks up and leaves), or #2 - a power-sharing arrangement where both Sunnis and Shia get to live and have an appropriate amount of power wrt their population levels.

In order to get to #2 we have to bomb Iran, so as to get them to stop messing with us. We can't be successful in Iraq until we bomb the crap out of Iran.

Why can't we have #3: someone bombs the crap out of you?

At least the winger fuckheads - we could put you all on an island and bomb the fuck out of you all. Problem solved.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #138 of 309
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Why can't we have #3: someone bombs the crap out of you?

At least the winger fuckheads - we could put you all on an island and bomb the fuck out of you all. Problem solved.

Even if that were possible, the resulting pull-out from Iraq would result in Sunni genocide. GWB is the their only hope, Obi-Wan.

Going forward, what is your ideal plan wgt US involvement in the middle east, and what repercussions do you think that would have?
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
Reply
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
Reply
post #139 of 309
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

Even if that were possible, the resulting pull-out from Iraq would result in Sunni genocide. GWB is the their only hope, Obi-Wan.

At this point I would usually ask for evidence of this but I know how it goes now - the only source is Fox News and all the rest of what passes for the winger hive-mind, so I'll pass.

Suffice to say though, that this opinion has no basis in any form of rational thought process, knowledge or - God help us - facts.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #140 of 309
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

At this point I would usually ask for evidence of this but I know how it goes now - the only source is Fox News and all the rest of what passes for the winger hive-mind, so I'll pass.

Suffice to say though, that this opinion has no basis in any form of rational thought process, knowledge or - God help us - facts.

I don't watch fox news, and my evidence of Iran sending weapons to Iraq is the interview you posted a couple pages ago. I think that I have been very clear and logical in my arguments - you just don't seem to be able to respond with anything that derails me.
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
Reply
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
Reply
post #141 of 309
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

I don't watch fox news, and my evidence of Iran sending weapons to Iraq is the interview you posted a couple pages ago. I think that I have been very clear and logical in my arguments - you just don't seem to be able to respond with anything that derails me.

That's true but that is more due to the fact that you are not running on any rails....

I would counter with evidence that Ahmedinejad NEVER answers questions. I am not sure why, perhaps things get lost in translation.

I remember when he was accused of the 'wipe Israel off the map' meme - and before Pavlov's dogs come slavering out of their kennels, there is no doubt whatsoever that the phrase he uttered did not contain the words Israel or map (and yes, I did study Farsi as part of my undergraduate degree) but he did not deny it at all.

He just kept evading like he usually does...I was very puzzled at the time and I have seen many examples since and still have no answer. I

In any event, given that he equivocates about many things he could prove without doubt your suggestion that he evaded the issue is not proof in any way.

Especially as the implication of such 'proof' would be that Ahmedinejad really is the 'Hitler' of US invention - so why not lie? It is not proof...except to those gagging and lusting for war like a paedophile at the kindergarten gates...
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #142 of 309
Imagine that there was proof positive that the Iranian government was supplying weapons to Shia insurgents in Iraq - would you support US military action against Iran if that was true? If no, then why?

Also, you never answered me when I asked what your ideal plan for the US involvement was in the middle east.
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
Reply
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
Reply
post #143 of 309
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

Imagine that there was proof positive that the Iranian government was supplying weapons to Shia insurgents in Iraq - would you support US military action against Iran if that was true? If no, then why?

Also, you never answered me when I asked what your ideal plan for the US involvement was in the middle east.

No, I would not support it under any circumstances. To support the US in anything means the death of thousands of people. Nukes even...the current admin are insane and their reactions to falsehood have been psychotic. I'll be damned if I support their reactions to truth.

But how many reasons do you want? I can think of hundreds...

One would be that I do not trust the US to handle anything in an objective way that serves the cause of justice. Never...they talk about it a lot but it is all lies...it all comes down to self-interest which is why fascists like Saudi can be 'friends' and Iran scheduled for annihilation for being infinitely more liberal by comparison.

Another would be that I support the right of Shi'i to defend Shi'i - especially across borders which are arbitrary and false dividing lines drawn up by colonial powers.

My ideal plan would be for the US to butt out never to return and let civilized nations step in if necessary. I think I did mention this a few times. Is a very simple plan and - given the low esteem the US universally enjoys in the region - would quite possibly be an improvement on the magnitude of hundreds of percent.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #144 of 309
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

No, I would not support it under any circumstances...

Another would be that I support the right of Shi'i to defend Shi'i - especially across borders which are arbitrary and false dividing lines drawn up by colonial powers.

If that is the case, then I don't know why you bother arguing with me about weather or not Iran is supplying weapons to the Iraqi Shia insurgents - because it would not matter to you if they were or not.

Since it is pretty plain that they are supplying weapons, it would be a lot more honest of you to just say "they sent the weapons, and it is a good thing", because every time you say something like "he just talks like that" or "he is being mistranslated" you come off as an apologist who would defend Iran under any circumstances.

IMHO, we are at war with Iran, and Iraq is the battleground - in your view we should pack up and go home because we shouldn't be there in the first place, in my view we should win the war against Iran that we are already fighting. I think that the Sunnis are going to die in the millions if we leave.
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
Reply
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
Reply
post #145 of 309
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

If that is the case, then I don't know why you bother arguing with me about weather or not Iran is supplying weapons to the Iraqi Shia insurgents - because it would not matter to you if they were or not.

The reason is that it is a lie - and a lie that if believed (or even not) will inevitably lead to thousands, possibly hundreds of thousands, of deaths.

Just like Iraq....deaths for a lie.

It may mean nothing to you as long as the dead are dead but to me it means something.

Of course I know these deaths will happen - that's what the US does - so in a way I am just 'offloading'. But weighing it all up it is better to do that now because only a sick fucker would rejoice in the 'I told you so' once the deed is done.

But do I think it will make any difference? No. It's more like making a stand. Nailing your colours to the mast so when the murderers do their thing everyone knows whose side you were on before.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #146 of 309
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

The reason is that it is a lie - and a lie that if believed (or even not) will inevitably lead to thousands, possibly hundreds of thousands, of deaths.

Just like Iraq....deaths for a lie.

It may mean nothing to you as long as the dead are dead but to me it means something.

Of course I know these deaths will happen - that's what the US does - so in a way I am just 'offloading'. But weighing it all up it is better to do that now because only a sick fucker would rejoice in the 'I told you so' once the deed is done.

But do I think it will make any difference? No. It's more like making a stand. Nailing your colours to the mast so when the murderers do their thing everyone knows whose side you were on before.

... you believe in totalitarian or authoritarian regimes, just as long as their not backed by the western world?
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
Reply
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
Reply
post #147 of 309
DEBKAfile reports: Russians employed at Irans Bushehr nuclear reactor suddenly depart in a body, according to local Arab sources

Quote:
The Khorramshar News Agency, which is published by the ethnic Arab underground of Irans oil-rich Khuzestan, reported early Oct. 1 that the entire staff of Russian nuclear engineers and experts employed in building the nuclear reactor at Bushehr had abruptly packed their bags Friday, Sept. 28, and flew back to Russia. The agencys one-liner offers no source or explanation. DEBKAfile have obtained no corroboration of its report from any other source.

The story appears to have originated with the ethnic Arabs who live near the reactor or who come in contact with its Russian staff. If true, DEBKAfile can offer three hypothetical scenarios to account for the Russians precipitate departure:

1. Another crisis has cropped up in the patchy Russian-Iranian dealings over the Bushehr reactor. This is unlikely because Russian president Vladimar Putin is due for a high-profile visit to Tehran on Oct. 16, when he plans to sign a series of nuclear accords with the Islamic Republic. Furthermore, Moscow, like Beijing, stands foursquare behind Irans efforts to delay harsher sanctions for its continued uranium enrichment. Only this week, the two powers gained Iran two to three months grace by forcing a delay in the UN Security Council session that was to have approved a third round of sanctions.

2. Moscow or Tehran has been tipped off that a US or Israeli attack is imminent on the Bushehr plant and Irans other nuclear installations and acted to whip Russian personnel out of harms way.

3. Moscow has learned that an Iranian pre-emptive attack is imminent against American targets in Iraq and the Persian Gulf and/or Israel.
post #148 of 309
Thread Starter 

4. Moscow has learned a black-op is underway to frame Iran for 'an incident'.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #149 of 309
I can't believe, yeah I do, that some of the boobs on this board advocate attacking Iran.

That'll work, you fucking idiots.

What then, send in Blackwater to restore order in the ensuing chaos.

What a fucking mess, and to think SDW blames Carter. Fucking hell.

GWB, the absolutely, undeniably, the worst leader the free world has ever elected, twice.

Fucking Americans.
post #150 of 309
I don't see it. As many here know, my predictions are pretty predictable.
"some catch on faster than others"
Reply
"some catch on faster than others"
Reply
post #151 of 309
post #152 of 309
Quote:
Originally Posted by southside grabowski View Post

As many here know, my predictions are pretty predictable.

ROFLMAO, man you made my day with that one. Reminds me of some of the famous Bushisms.

And yeah, your predictions are pretty predictable, predictably wrong that is.

Nightcrawler
I disagree, and could prove you're wrong; care to offer any proof that you're not wrong?
Reply
I disagree, and could prove you're wrong; care to offer any proof that you're not wrong?
Reply
post #153 of 309
Thread Starter 
This just in: Russia: no evidence Iran seeks bomb.

Quote:
Moscow has no information that Iran is trying to build a nuclear bomb, Russian President Vladimir Putin has said.

Mr Putin was speaking after talks in Moscow with French President Nicolas Sarkozy, who said the two countries had made progress on the Iran issue.

"We do not have data that says Iran is trying to produce nuclear weapons. We do not have such objective data," Mr Putin said at a joint news conference with Mr Sarkozy.

Looks like there is no evidence at all. Not that this will stop the attack.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #154 of 309
http://www.rttnews.com/FOREX/politic...7/2007&item=18
Quote:
If Iran had a nuclear weapon, it'd be a dangerous threat to world peace, Bush said in a news conference. So I told people that if you're interested in avoiding World War III, it seems like you ought to be interested in preventing them from having the knowledge necessary to make a nuclear weapon.

I take the threat of Iran with a nuclear weapon very seriously, he added.

World War III?
Quote:
President Vladimir Putin of Russia said on Tuesday in Tehran, Not only should we reject the use of force, but also the mention of force as a possibility.

After meeting earlier this week with Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, the Russian leader said there was no evidence to support accusations that Iran is trying to develop atomic weapons.

So Bush didn't believe the weapons inspectors in Iraq, they were right.

Will he believe his good buddy?
post #155 of 309
Bush:
Quote:
So I told people that if you’re interested in avoiding World War III, it seems like you ought to be interested in preventing them from having the knowledge necessary to make a nuclear weapon.

Replace "nuclear weapon" with "weapon of mass destruction", and you're 5 years in the past in the build-up to the invasion of Iraq.

Furthermore, whereas the administration claimed to have solid evidence in the case of Iraq, they are speaking about war without any evidence whatsoever in the case of Iran. And maybe Bush isn't very politically savvy, but there's no denying that simply mentioning "World War III" sends a very strong message of possible, future intentions.

I also find it interesting that he's not even talking about actual nuclear weapons in the quote above; he's only talking about "the knowledge necessary to make a nuclear weapon".

...


Putin makes a good point: We don't have any proof Iran is seeking to develop nuclear weapons. The fact that Bush is pushing so hard against Iran is in fact further proof that impending military action against Iran is absolutely not about nuclear technology at all.

...

Ayatollah Khamenei (Supreme Leader of Iran)'s stance?

Ayatollah Ali Khamenei has issued a fatwa saying the production, stockpiling and use of nuclear weapons was forbidden under Islam. The fatwa was cited in an official statement by the Iranian government at an August 2005 meeting of the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) in Vienna.
post #156 of 309
Quote:
Originally Posted by @_@ Artman View Post

Bush:

Replace "nuclear weapon" with "weapon of mass destruction", and you're 5 years in the past in the build-up to the invasion of Iraq.

Furthermore, whereas the administration claimed to have solid evidence in the case of Iraq, they are speaking about war without any evidence whatsoever in the case of Iran. And maybe Bush isn't very politically savvy, but there's no denying that simply mentioning "World War III" sends a very strong message of possible, future intentions.

I also find it interesting that he's not even talking about actual nuclear weapons in the quote above; he's only talking about "the knowledge necessary to make a nuclear weapon".

...


Putin makes a good point: We don't have any proof Iran is seeking to develop nuclear weapons. The fact that Bush is pushing so hard against Iran is in fact further proof that impending military action against Iran is absolutely not about nuclear technology at all.

...

Ayatollah Khamenei (Supreme Leader of Iran)'s stance?

Ayatollah Ali Khamenei has issued a fatwa saying the production, stockpiling and use of nuclear weapons was forbidden under Islam. The fatwa was cited in an official statement by the Iranian government at an August 2005 meeting of the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) in Vienna.

We need a countdown to WWIII thread, called simply "Rapture" or perhaps "WWIII: a priori knowledge."
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
Reply
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
Reply
post #157 of 309
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

This just in: Russia: no evidence Iran seeks bomb.
Looks like there is no evidence at all. Not that this will stop the attack.

And after the war in Iran begins, and no evidence of nuclear weapon research is found, SDW and Nick will insist, "Every major intelligence agency in the world blieved Iran was developing nuclear weapons!"
post #158 of 309
Seems like Putin doesn't trust US, namely this Administration's intentions at all.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/rtrs/200710...n-43a8d4f.html
Quote:
The president also referred more than once to Iraq's experience, which he said showed the need for oil-rich states like Russia to keep strong defences.

"Thank God Russia is not Iraq," Putin told a questioner who asked about supposed U.S. intentions to gain control of Siberia's vast natural resources.

"It is strong enough to protect its interests... What we are doing to increase our defence capability is the correct choice and we will continue to do that."

Could this rhetoric lead to a new type of cold war?

What a legacy for Bush that would be.
post #159 of 309
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by screener View Post

Seems like Putin doesn't trust US, namely this Administration's intentions at all.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/rtrs/200710...n-43a8d4f.html


Could this rhetoric lead to a new type of cold war?

What a legacy for Bush that would be.

Given that Russia is taking the sane road when faced with a belligerent despotic regime which is committed to invading oil-rich states, then surely Iran must also have a duty to do exactly the same thing as it is in exactly the same position.

Re the wider question and Bush's 'legacy', I think the civilized world is patient and thoughtful by definition and will extend this patience to the US.....there is a window now to put the abomination of the Bush years into the dustbin of history and vote in a polar opposite.

In theory anyway. In practice it seems like all the available choices are just as rabidly pro-war, pro-Israel, anti-Iran and to degrees Islamophobic.

That's democracy for ya - choose any colour from the vast menu; but the only colour on the menu is shades of black.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #160 of 309
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Given that Russia is taking the sane road when faced with a belligerent despotic regime which is committed to invading oil-rich states, then surely Iran must also have a duty to do exactly the same thing as it is in exactly the same position.

Re the wider question and Bush's 'legacy', I think the civilized world is patient and thoughtful by definition and will extend this patience to the US.....there is a window now to put the abomination of the Bush years into the dustbin of history and vote in a polar opposite.

In theory anyway. In practice it seems like all the available choices are just as rabidly pro-war, pro-Israel, anti-Iran and to degrees Islamophobic.

That's democracy for ya - choose any colour from the vast menu; but the only colour on the menu is shades of black.

I agree the last 8 years could be referred to as an abomination, thanks to Bush, his
enablers and those that continue to enable him.

I'm talking more of his legacy, not the US itself.

The US will recover it's tarnished leadership role, but Bush's Presidency?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: PoliticalOutsider
AppleInsider › Forums › Other Discussion › AppleOutsider › PoliticalOutsider › War with Iran inevitable: do you support Iran's right to self-defence?