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Apple selects O2 as exclusive carrier for iPhone in UK - Page 2

post #41 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by aegisdesign View Post

The point is, you can get a Nokia N95 for a lower priced contract for FREE...

So, Apple is betting enough people will think the iPhone is worth 269 more than an N95, much like the iPod initially commanded a premium. I'm not sure what's surprising here?

Quote:
and it has more features than the iPhone (good 5mp camera, GPS inc Sat Nav etc) yet Apple want us to spend £269 and more on a contract. Huh?

More features != better. Apple has always been about carefully choosing fewer features and implementing them so they are utterly painless to use. (They don't always succeed, but they have a pretty good percentage in their favor.)

None of that is to say the iPhone will succeed, but I bet it's not doomed either.
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post #42 of 165
So for 269 Sterling you get an iPod touch that is also a phone with email possibilities that syncs perfectly with your Mac.
Sounds good to me! Considering that EVERYTHING is more expensive in the UK.

And for the lack of 3G, you get many free Wifi spots all over the country... much faster than 3G and much cheaper too.

And for those who prefer to get a free Nokia N95, great! Just add the iPod touch to your price comparison and all the hassle to sync 2 devices.. if you manage to sync that N95 at all.

And the N95 has a 5 MP camera... Wow, your photos will look so much better....... actually, they wont... amounts of MP is not important for quality.. it's the lens that makes photos good or bad... not that the iPhone lens is that great, but he.. it's a phone, not a camera!

And GPS in your phone, instead of Google maps... ok, for those that need a GPS on their phone I suppose it is a good thing... for those who need and want it...
post #43 of 165
This is a good deal for people in The City (London's financial district) which is covered in wifi provided by The Cloud. It's also the first unlimited data package in the UK.

I'd say this is a pretty good deal overall.
post #44 of 165
Why does everyone nention the N95 like it's the gold standard? Is it that good?
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post #45 of 165
Quote:
This is a good deal for people in The City (London's financial district) which is covered in wifi provided by The Cloud. It's also the first unlimited data package in the UK.

Unfortunately pretty darn useless for some of us in the UK .... I'm in Northern Ireland and there is NOT ONE Cloud hotspot. Hey I guess that means we'll see a reduction in our O2 monthly subscription then... NOT!
post #46 of 165
Quote:
Why does everyone nention the N95 like it's the gold standard? Is it that good?

Yes I was thinking the same thing. Does it really do all of the things well? As you add more features makes it difficult to do any one of them well. Or it does one or two features really well at the sacrifice of others.

I'm confused some are saying this is a pretty good plan and some people are saying its a terrible plan. What I imagine is that those who say they have cheaper plans don't have unlimited internet. If you were to add unlimited internet to your cheaper plan would it still be cheaper than the iPhone plans?

The 30% coverage of EDGE should improve pretty quickly. From what I've read its only a software upgrade for O2 and not a heavy hardware upgrade. So by November the situation should be very different from today.

We don't get any official free hot spots in the US. Not even on AT&T hotspots.
post #47 of 165
Well, after waiting to see what Apple offered, I think I'm going to get an N95 (or an E90 if I can find one for a reasonable price). They suggested 3G is coming late next year, so if I get myself a twelve month contract it should be expiring just as the 3G iPhone appears.

BTW, for those who say 3G is worthless, it's currently my only net connection at home. I'm living in a rented house for two months while waiting for a purchase to complete, and installing a phone line would cost £125. For £5 I added 1GB of data to my phone plan, tethered it to my G5 with bluetooth and got it sharing over Airport for my housemates to use.

I know that's a rare case, but I doubt I'd even attempt it with EDGE -- it'd just be too slow.

Amorya
post #48 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

I may be waiting another year or so, but I wont buy until I see 3G and 16GB of storage. I doubt I'm alone on this either.

It is always wise to wait for rev.2 for such a device anyway. If you are going to be lock into a 2 year contract you better have the best device you can get for that, period. I would not be surprise if by MWSF we will see a 16gb and 3G version. If not there by no later than March 08.

The iPhone development is happening very fast and Steve wants to sell 10 million by end of 2008, so you can bet the next revision will address most of the major issues and requests and will be a killer one.

The iPhone is fantastic, I have been very tempted to get one, but is good to wait. I am buying the iPod Touch meanwhile and then maybe selling it on eBay when the iPhone rev. 2 finally comes to life.
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post #49 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

I'm confused some are saying this is a pretty good plan and some people are saying its a terrible plan. What I imagine is that those who say they have cheaper plans don't have unlimited internet. If you were to add unlimited internet to your cheaper plan would it still be cheaper than the iPhone plans?

Unlimited internet costs between £5 and £10 a month, depending on the network. (Unlimited seems to be 1GB fair use. If the iPhone plan offers more than 1GB, then the plans might start to look better.)

You can usually get 500 minutes for around £15-20 these days. Add on your net access and you're at around £25. There are other expensive plans, but by shopping around for whatever offers are on (and there are always offers on) you can get even better rates sometimes.

Amorya
post #50 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecking View Post

Why does everyone nention the N95 like it's the gold standard? Is it that good?

No, it's not even that good! I don't understand why everyone uses the N95 as the benchmark. I have one and it sucks! I can't wait for Nov 9th so I can ditch the Nokia.

If anyone is interested in why the N95 sucks then..


#1 - Build quality. I've never had a phone made so poorly. The whole thing creeks when I press the number pad.
#2 - Software. Nokia always used to be the kings of mobile software. I don't know what has happended over the past couple of years, but their software is so buggy now. Icons are shoddy, layout and themes are not properly thought through.
#3 - Camera. The 5MP camera is supposed to be a selling point for the N95. It's not bad for a phone, but cannot be even remotely compared to a 'proper' 5MP camera (Canon, Nikon etc). Also whenever you take a picture, the shoddy software wants you to do all kinds of things with the imave.. upload to album, send to contact... I JUST WANT TO TAKE A COUPLE OF PICS!!!!
#4 - Battery life. It's true what SJ says about 3G chipsets. Under heavy use, the battery life is quite poor.
#5 - It's nothing like an iPhone!
post #51 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpinDrift View Post

#3 - Camera. The 5MP camera is supposed to be a selling point for the N95. It's not bad for a phone, but cannot be even remotely compared to a 'proper' 5MP camera (Canon, Nikon etc). Also whenever you take a picture, the shoddy software wants you to do all kinds of things with the imave.. upload to album, send to contact... I JUST WANT TO TAKE A COUPLE OF PICS!!!!

I don't care to get one, but I think that's odd, given the kind of camera that's on that. I would think that the N95 would at least take acceptable pictures, at least much better than you'd find on other phones. It doesn't look like an ordinary phone camera, it looks more like a phone was built around a conventional point-and-shoot. Other phones have a pin-sized lens and a pin-sized sensor.
post #52 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

I don't care to get one, but I think that's odd, given the kind of camera that's on that. I would think that the N95 would at least take acceptable pictures, at least much better than you'd find on other phones. It doesn't look like an ordinary phone camera, it looks more like a phone was built around a conventional point-and-shoot. Other phones have a pin-sized lens and a pin-sized sensor.

Nope, it has the same optics as the other Nokia N Series phones. They are ok for phone cameras, but so is the iPhone camera! The 5MP images size just emphasises the noise.
post #53 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Thanks for clearing that up. That is a whole lot of taxes.

For future reference, here's the link o VAT rates in the EU countries:

http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs...t_rates_en.pdf

As aegisdesign notes, it is 17.5% in the UK.
post #54 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecking View Post

Why does everyone nention the N95 like it's the gold standard? Is it that good?

I've been wondering the same thing.

Does anyone know how many of these Nokia has sold -- i.e., how is it going in the marketplace? Everyone talks about it as though it is quite ubiquitous ......

Also, is it multitouch? Having now used that technology for ten weeks, I can tell you that is worth some sizable premium (which, of course, could vary from person to person).

Apologies: Just saw SpinDrift's response. Oh well, I'll leave this in anyway.....
post #55 of 165
Quote:
Unlimited internet costs between £5 and £10 a month, depending on the network.

How many minutes and texts do you generally get?
post #56 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by reidconti View Post

I'm sure that $4.50 to ship from the uk to boulder, co isn't in any way subsidized by your taxes, huh?

Nope. Royal Mail was privatised years ago.

Quote:
Originally Posted by reidconti View Post

I love how the uk'ers here are utterly ignoring the fact that people can get free phones here in the states, too, yet some of us still elect to pay more to get what we want. Stop rehashing last January's arguments. Maybe if apple had only renamed it the iMobile..

We're ignoring it because it's totally irrelevant to the argument. The point is we can get Nokia's most expensive, most feature packed smartphone for free whereas Apple's much less capable device is £269.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tchwojko View Post

So, Apple is betting enough people will think the iPhone is worth 269 more than an N95, much like the iPod initially commanded a premium. I'm not sure what's surprising here?

The iPod when it was released was only a bit more expensive than the competition and the competition wasn't very good, to be more than kind. That's not like Apple v Nokia or Sony Ericsson today.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tchwojko View Post

More features != better. Apple has always been about carefully choosing fewer features and implementing them so they are utterly painless to use. (They don't always succeed, but they have a pretty good percentage in their favor.)

I agree entirely. But they've chosen to only implement a very small subset of features well in the iPhone's case missing out features we expect in Europe in an expensive phone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tchwojko View Post

None of that is to say the iPhone will succeed, but I bet it's not doomed either.

I think it'll do ok too but I'm pretty sure that's based on it's brand image not it's price, features or ease of use.

Quote:
Originally Posted by S10 View Post

So for 269 Sterling you get an iPod touch that is also a phone with email possibilities that syncs perfectly with your Mac.
Sounds good to me! Considering that EVERYTHING is more expensive in the UK.

Everything ISN'T more expensive in the UK. Healthcare and Education to name two.


Quote:
Originally Posted by S10 View Post

And for the lack of 3G, you get many free Wifi spots all over the country... much faster than 3G and much cheaper too.

Not really. Both are free so there's no cost difference. The Cloud hotspots are few and far between in some areas of the country and it doesn't really help you get fast internet access on a train. Where I live, O2 3G coverage is non-existent so it's not really a dilemma I have to face - I'm stuck with standard non-EDGE GPRS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by S10 View Post

And for those who prefer to get a free Nokia N95, great! Just add the iPod touch to your price comparison and all the hassle to sync 2 devices.. if you manage to sync that N95 at all.

There'd be little point. The N95 has a decent enough media player already and yes it syncs just fine. http://europe.nokia.com/mac/isync/

Quote:
Originally Posted by S10 View Post

And the N95 has a 5 MP camera... Wow, your photos will look so much better....... actually, they wont... amounts of MP is not important for quality.. it's the lens that makes photos good or bad... not that the iPhone lens is that great, but he.. it's a phone, not a camera!

The amount of MP *IS* important coupled to a good lens and a flash. Guess what, most high end Euro phones have all three.

Quote:
Originally Posted by S10 View Post

And GPS in your phone, instead of Google maps... ok, for those that need a GPS on their phone I suppose it is a good thing... for those who need and want it...

Why not. It's free. And the N95 has Google maps too. Use either with the built in GPS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eAi View Post

This is a good deal for people in The City (London's financial district) which is covered in wifi provided by The Cloud. It's also the first unlimited data package in the UK.

I'd say this is a pretty good deal overall.

It's obviously not the first unlimited data package because there's a 1400 page 'fair use' policy in place and t-mobile have been selling 'unlimited' data packages for over a year at least. The detail in the fine print will be interesting.

I'm not sure how many MB 1400 pages equates to if that's what they're estimating. Do they really count page views? I would have thought not. You have to wonder what the 1400 pages usage translates for YouTube usage.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ecking View Post

Why does everyone nention the N95 like it's the gold standard? Is it that good?

It's a brick of a phone but it does do almost absolutely everything in one brick. If you want everything in one brick, it's the phone for you.


Quote:
Originally Posted by gugy View Post

It is always wise to wait for rev.2 for such a device anyway. If you are going to be lock into a 2 year contract you better have the best device you can get for that, period. I would not be surprise if by MWSF we will see a 16gb and 3G version. If not there by no later than March 08.

The iPhone development is happening very fast and Steve wants to sell 10 million by end of 2008, so you can bet the next revision will address most of the major issues and requests and will be a killer one.

The iPhone is fantastic, I have been very tempted to get one, but is good to wait. I am buying the iPod Touch meanwhile and then maybe selling it on eBay when the iPhone rev. 2 finally comes to life.

The iPhone's been out a few months now and no major gripes with the hardware beyond a few phones losing touch sensitivity. It's always worth waiting a few months perhaps but so far the iPhone v1 has been ok IMHO.

There's been more issues with iPod Touch already!

After what Jobs said today I'd be very surprised to see a 3G iPhone till at least mid 2008. It's only an 18 month contract here so not a big deal. O2's future 3G coverage map is showing no more coverage for me than current so I'd guess 3G is going to be mostly irrelevant.

Only thing I'd want now is a better camera so I don't have to carry around another device.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SpinDrift View Post

No, it's not even that good! I don't understand why everyone uses the N95 as the benchmark. I have one and it sucks! I can't wait for Nov 9th so I can ditch the Nokia.

It's a good example of a free phone you can sell on eBay to people who value features over Apple-ness to pay for your iPhone.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SpinDrift View Post

#2 - Software. Nokia always used to be the kings of mobile software. I don't know what has happended over the past couple of years, but their software is so buggy now. Icons are shoddy, layout and themes are not properly thought through.

Symbian OS 9 happened. It was very buggy. Couple it to Nokia's S60 interface and you've a turd on your hands. S60 was always the bastard child compared to UIQ and S80 but OS 9.0 added insult to injury.

Could be worse though - See Windows Mobile or PalmOS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpinDrift View Post

#3 - Camera. The 5MP camera is supposed to be a selling point for the N95. It's not bad for a phone, but cannot be even remotely compared to a 'proper' 5MP camera (Canon, Nikon etc). Also whenever you take a picture, the shoddy software wants you to do all kinds of things with the imave.. upload to album, send to contact... I JUST WANT TO TAKE A COUPLE OF PICS!!!!

But it's also leagues better than the 2mp non-autofocus, non-flash teeny lens Apple camera and perfectly acceptable for snaps. I prefered the SE K800i's 3.2mp built in camera myself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpinDrift View Post

#4 - Battery life. It's true what SJ says about 3G chipsets. Under heavy use, the battery life is quite poor.

But then if you need it, it's there, whereas you don't have that option at all with the iPhone.

It's like arguing that an ice cream with optional free hot fudge sauce isn't better than a plain ice cream, even if your ice cream melts quicker.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

I don't care to get one, but I think that's odd, given the kind of camera that's on that. I would think that the N95 would at least take acceptable pictures, at least much better than you'd find on other phones. It doesn't look like an ordinary phone camera, it looks more like a phone was built around a conventional point-and-shoot. Other phones have a pin-sized lens and a pin-sized sensor.

It *IS* pretty good for a phone. I don't think it's as good as Sony's K800 3.2mp cybershot phone cameras. Even Moto's new phones are 3.2mp. Either would be fine for most people instead of a point and shoot. Go to any wedding in the UK these days and there's a dozen people with phones snapping, not cameras. It just shows up Apple's offering as being lack lustre by comparison - that's all - which the 'mp myth' fanboys don't seem to realise that there's a lower limit on quality, not just a higher limit on diminishing returns.
post #57 of 165
Quote:
The point is we can get Nokia's most expensive, most feature packed smartphone for free whereas Apple's much less capable device is £269.

Feature packed means little if it isn't able to perform its features well. Really more features becomes a liability. I would prefer for features to wait until they can be used well. Without one features usability being sacrificed for some other feature.

Quote:
The amount of MP *IS* important coupled to a good lens and a flash. Guess what, most high end Euro phones have all three.

I would count lens and A/D imagine processing as the most important parts of a good picture. And there is no way a phone is going to do all of that better than a dedicated point and shoot.

Quote:
But then if you need it, it's there, whereas you don't have that option at all with the iPhone.
It's like arguing that an ice cream with optional free hot fudge sauce isn't better than a plain ice cream, even if your ice cream melts quicker.

I think one would need to assess how important is 3G. iPhone clearly has a superior UI and application design. It doesn't have 3G, but it does have WiFi and EDGE, which one is more important.

Quote:
Go to any wedding in the UK these days and there's a dozen people with phones snapping, not cameras. It just shows up Apple's offering as being lack lustre by comparison - that's all - which the 'mp myth' fanboys don't seem to realise that there's a lower limit on quality, not just a higher limit on diminishing returns.

More megapixels can add to quality. The megapix myth is saying that more mp does not necessarily add more quality. Along with mp you need to improve the lens and the A/D processing. There is only so much you can do to improve all of that on a phone. While there is more room to improve these factors on a dedicated point and shoot.
post #58 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

More megapixels can add to quality. The megapix myth is saying that more mp does not necessarily add more quality.

That's not the myth though, that's the truth. Megapixels does not necessarily add more quality.

The real megapixel myth is that megapixels is the sole measure of quality.

Quote:
Along with mp you need to improve the lens and the A/D processing. There is only so much you can do to improve all of that on a phone. While there is more room to improve these factors on a dedicated point and shoot.

The problem is that getting a good lens, good sensor and a good flash all take a certain minimum size, particularly depth. iPhone is about half as thick as the N95.
post #59 of 165
I am remarkably disappointed to learn that the UK is going to get the iPhone before Canada does. I'm pretty sure it's not entirely Apple making it's debut slower, i'm sure it's Rogers (the only carrier capable of supporting the iPhone in Canada). All of our wireless providers blow. Telus is scary and CDMA, Bell is less scary but also CDMA and Rogers is the only contender left. Rogers is probably crapping themselves at the fact they'd have to release an unlimited data plan that will likely make all other customers go "wtf? Then why are we getting reamed on our data plans if iPhone people get unlimited for $60/mo." and all Blackberry users who have multi-hundred dollar data bills every month will also get on the bandwagon to complain about Rogers outrageous data plans ($1/MB with some pretty serious overage charges). MEH.
post #60 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Feature packed means little if it isn't able to perform its features well. Really more features becomes a liability. I would prefer for features to wait until they can be used well. Without one features usability being sacrificed for some other feature.

Sure, you can have feature overload but there's features missing or badly done already in the iPhone. eg. No video at all and who forgot the camera shutter button?

There's no reason why MMS should be missing. It's no different that email or sms.



Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

I would count lens and A/D imagine processing as the most important parts of a good picture. And there is no way a phone is going to do all of that better than a dedicated point and shoot.

It doesn't have to be better, it just has to be 'good enough' and for many people that don't know what A/D is, many modern phones are 'good enough'.

And you're telling someone who still uses an old 3.3mp Olympus because it has lovely glass and predictable image processing.
post #61 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Does anyone know how many of these Nokia has sold -- i.e., how is it going in the marketplace? Everyone talks about it as though it is quite ubiquitous ......

Sorry to "reply" to my own post.

Does anybody know (or have a vague estimate of) how many N95s have been sold?
post #62 of 165
Wow... judging by the comments after the article, many of the UKers over at Engadget are not happy at all with the Euro iPhone : \

http://www.engadget.com/2007/09/18/h...hone/#comments

.
Cut-copy-paste, MMS, landscape keyboard, video-recording, voice-calling, and more... FINALLY
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post #63 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

The free/nearly-free phone with contract subsidization gimmick is also the way phones are sold in the States. If you haven't noticed yet, Apple is trying to stop this. You pay for the phone outright and sign no contract upfront. You have no obligation to ever activate your iPhone. It's up to you activate it via iTunes at your convenience.


Um... here's what Apple is doing, last I heard:

-- You pay upfront for the phone, no subsidy. If you don't want to sign a contract, too bad... no phone service for you. Not only that, but if you do want service, you have to sign up for 2 years.

What people actually want (and some carriers already do):

-- You pay upfront for the phone, no subsidy. You can now get phone service without a contract, since the contract only exists to pay off the phone subsidy.


There's kind of a huge difference between those two models. I don't think too many ppl are thinking Apple is doing us a big favor there. No subsidy, but you still require a contract? Urk.

.
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post #64 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBaggins View Post

Wow... judging by the comments after the article, many of the UKers over at Engadget are not happy at all with the Euro iPhone : \

http://www.engadget.com/2007/09/18/h...hone/#comments

.

Posters at engadget.com do not seem like a very happy group of people, in general.

An especially unhappy and vocal group there seems to be those that regularly get VERY agitated every time the word "Apple" is mentioned in a story....
post #65 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Posters at engadget.com do not seem like a very happy group of people, in general.

An especially unhappy and vocal group there seems to be those that regularly get VERY agitated every time the word "Apple" is mentioned in a story....


I agree, but I don't think it was the usual crowd this time. Engadget was the most popular site providing live coverage of the UK event, so people just kinda herded on over there from everywhere, especially the UKers, obviously.

And we certainly have enough Euro folk here at AI expressing similar feelings towards the Euro iPhone.

Still think the Euro launch will go pretty well, but after that, I dunno. I think a lot of ppl over there will be sitting on their hands 'til an 'iPhone 2.0' shows up in '08. Or they'll just buy one of the many high-end alternatives. \


.
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post #66 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by aegisdesign View Post

Nope. Royal Mail was privatised years ago.



We're ignoring it because it's totally irrelevant to the argument. The point is we can get Nokia's most expensive, most feature packed smartphone for free whereas Apple's much less capable device is £269.




The iPod when it was released was only a bit more expensive than the competition and the competition wasn't very good, to be more than kind. That's not like Apple v Nokia or Sony Ericsson today.




I agree entirely. But they've chosen to only implement a very small subset of features well in the iPhone's case missing out features we expect in Europe in an expensive phone.



I think it'll do ok too but I'm pretty sure that's based on it's brand image not it's price, features or ease of use.



Everything ISN'T more expensive in the UK. Healthcare and Education to name two.




Not really. Both are free so there's no cost difference. The Cloud hotspots are few and far between in some areas of the country and it doesn't really help you get fast internet access on a train. Where I live, O2 3G coverage is non-existent so it's not really a dilemma I have to face - I'm stuck with standard non-EDGE GPRS.



There'd be little point. The N95 has a decent enough media player already and yes it syncs just fine. http://europe.nokia.com/mac/isync/



The amount of MP *IS* important coupled to a good lens and a flash. Guess what, most high end Euro phones have all three.



Why not. It's free. And the N95 has Google maps too. Use either with the built in GPS.



It's obviously not the first unlimited data package because there's a 1400 page 'fair use' policy in place and t-mobile have been selling 'unlimited' data packages for over a year at least. The detail in the fine print will be interesting.

I'm not sure how many MB 1400 pages equates to if that's what they're estimating. Do they really count page views? I would have thought not. You have to wonder what the 1400 pages usage translates for YouTube usage.




It's a brick of a phone but it does do almost absolutely everything in one brick. If you want everything in one brick, it's the phone for you.




The iPhone's been out a few months now and no major gripes with the hardware beyond a few phones losing touch sensitivity. It's always worth waiting a few months perhaps but so far the iPhone v1 has been ok IMHO.

There's been more issues with iPod Touch already!

After what Jobs said today I'd be very surprised to see a 3G iPhone till at least mid 2008. It's only an 18 month contract here so not a big deal. O2's future 3G coverage map is showing no more coverage for me than current so I'd guess 3G is going to be mostly irrelevant.

Only thing I'd want now is a better camera so I don't have to carry around another device.




It's a good example of a free phone you can sell on eBay to people who value features over Apple-ness to pay for your iPhone.




Symbian OS 9 happened. It was very buggy. Couple it to Nokia's S60 interface and you've a turd on your hands. S60 was always the bastard child compared to UIQ and S80 but OS 9.0 added insult to injury.

Could be worse though - See Windows Mobile or PalmOS.



But it's also leagues better than the 2mp non-autofocus, non-flash teeny lens Apple camera and perfectly acceptable for snaps. I prefered the SE K800i's 3.2mp built in camera myself.



But then if you need it, it's there, whereas you don't have that option at all with the iPhone.

It's like arguing that an ice cream with optional free hot fudge sauce isn't better than a plain ice cream, even if your ice cream melts quicker.



It *IS* pretty good for a phone. I don't think it's as good as Sony's K800 3.2mp cybershot phone cameras. Even Moto's new phones are 3.2mp. Either would be fine for most people instead of a point and shoot. Go to any wedding in the UK these days and there's a dozen people with phones snapping, not cameras. It just shows up Apple's offering as being lack lustre by comparison - that's all - which the 'mp myth' fanboys don't seem to realise that there's a lower limit on quality, not just a higher limit on diminishing returns.

Oh my god! I feel like we're in the presence of GOD!
post #67 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBaggins View Post

I agree, but I don't think it was the usual crowd this time. Engadget was the most popular site providing live coverage of the UK event, so people just kinda herded on over there from everywhere, especially the UKers, obviously.

And we certainly have enough Euro folk here at AI expressing similar feelings towards the Euro iPhone.

Still think the Euro launch will go pretty well, but after that, I dunno. I think a lot of ppl over there will be sitting on their hands 'til an 'iPhone 2.0' shows up in '08. Or they'll just buy one of the many high-end alternatives. \
.

We'll see. I predict that it will do very well in the UK. Why? Because of ease of use, cool looks, pushes the envelope in terms of integration of functionality, and for all but the internet (for which there is the wifi option), EDGE is pretty darn adequate.
post #68 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBaggins View Post

Wow... judging by the comments after the article, many of the UKers over at Engadget are not happy at all with the Euro iPhone : \

http://www.engadget.com/2007/09/18/h...hone/#comments

.

You mean, the ones that write on Edgadget or any other forum.. say 0.0001% of the population?
post #69 of 165
Quote:
That's not the myth though, that's the truth. Megapixels does not necessarily add more quality.

Right I should have called it myth busting.

Quote:
Sure, you can have feature overload but there's features missing or badly done already in the iPhone. eg. No video at all and who forgot the camera shutter button?

These are two different concepts that people confuse together. Features that don't work properly is one complaint. Features or functionality that people feel should be included is something different.

The features that Apple included in the phone for the most part work as Apple designed them to work. Wanting more features or additional functionality to features on the phone is something different. But still the phone does what Apple designed it to do with little problem.

Quote:
It doesn't have to be better, it just has to be 'good enough' and for many people that don't know what A/D is, many modern phones are 'good enough'.

As the megapixels increase the processing has to improve to handle the increase in information. Without proper processing you gain nothing but an increase in noise and a larger picture to store with little more real picture information.

I haven't seen an SLR camera that increased its pixel count and did not improve the A/D processing.
post #70 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

We'll see. I predict that it will do very well in the UK. Why? Because of ease of use, cool looks, pushes the envelope in terms of integration of functionality, and for all but the internet (for which there is the wifi option), EDGE is pretty darn adequate.


A good chunk of Euro folks don't seem to think EDGE is all that adequate, actually. Remember, they're a couple of years ahead of us in terms of having 3G, and in phone features too. Their expectations are a bit higher than ours.

Another problem is that O2's network isn't even EDGE in most places yet... it's apparently GPRS. Which is even slower... 30 kbps or so, real-world.

On the plus side, these guys will love it:



.
Cut-copy-paste, MMS, landscape keyboard, video-recording, voice-calling, and more... FINALLY
To the 'We Didn't Need It' Crowd/Apple Apologista Squad : Wrong again, lol
Thanks for listening to your...
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Cut-copy-paste, MMS, landscape keyboard, video-recording, voice-calling, and more... FINALLY
To the 'We Didn't Need It' Crowd/Apple Apologista Squad : Wrong again, lol
Thanks for listening to your...
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post #71 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by S10 View Post

You mean, the ones that write on Edgadget or any other forum.. say 0.0001% of the population?

Obviously, 60 million ppl aren't going to post to Engadget, unless they're accurately reporting on the second coming of Jesus (and what cellphone he's using ).

The real question is, are the (hundreds) of commenters on the story representative of the market for the Euro iPhone? Well, let's see...

- Mostly from the UK or Europe? Check.
- Internet user? Check.
- At least moderately tech-savvy or tech-aware? Check.
- Interested in the iPhone? Check.

Also, while this wasn't a poll, it's pretty obvious from things like political polls that you don't have to get millions of responses in order to get a good picture of what public opinion is.

Engadget, of course, would not provide a good snapshot as to what the 'UKer in the street' thinks of the Euro iPhone, but that person isn't the iPhone's demographic anyway... the kind of person who'd go to Engadget in the first place is.

.
Cut-copy-paste, MMS, landscape keyboard, video-recording, voice-calling, and more... FINALLY
To the 'We Didn't Need It' Crowd/Apple Apologista Squad : Wrong again, lol
Thanks for listening to your...
Reply
Cut-copy-paste, MMS, landscape keyboard, video-recording, voice-calling, and more... FINALLY
To the 'We Didn't Need It' Crowd/Apple Apologista Squad : Wrong again, lol
Thanks for listening to your...
Reply
post #72 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBaggins View Post

A good chunk of Euro folks don't seem to think EDGE is all that adequate, actually. Remember, they're a couple of years ahead of us in terms of having 3G, and in phone features too. Their expectations are a bit higher than ours.

Another problem is that O2's network isn't even EDGE in most places yet... it's apparently GPRS. Which is even slower... 30 kbps or so, real-world.

On the plus side, these guys will love it:




.

I reckon it'll still do well, just not with the geek/smartphone crowd. People who want a status symbol will love it. As will the kids who just want a phone to talk, text and play music.

The one thing that will affect adoption most isn't 3G, but lack of pay-as-you-go. And if the phone is not subsidised, there's no excuse for that. But hey, we've all heard the arguments, right?

Amorya
post #73 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amorya View Post

I reckon it'll still do well, just not with the geek/smartphone crowd. People who want a status symbol will love it. As will the kids who just want a phone to talk, text and play music.

The one thing that will affect adoption most isn't 3G, but lack of pay-as-you-go. And if the phone is not subsidised, there's no excuse for that. But hey, we've all heard the arguments, right?

Amorya

I agree with most of your points, though the "kids who just want a phone to talk, text and play music" might be a bit miffed when they learn there is no MMS.
post #74 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amorya View Post

I reckon it'll still do well, just not with the geek/smartphone crowd. People who want a status symbol will love it. As will the kids who just want a phone to talk, text and play music.


If they've got ₤269 (about $540 US) to drop on a status symbol, well, they can knock themselves out. I think that helps the launch numbers more than the long-term ones, though.

And as was mentioned, the lack of MMS is gonna hurt them some with the demographic you describe.

.
Cut-copy-paste, MMS, landscape keyboard, video-recording, voice-calling, and more... FINALLY
To the 'We Didn't Need It' Crowd/Apple Apologista Squad : Wrong again, lol
Thanks for listening to your...
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Cut-copy-paste, MMS, landscape keyboard, video-recording, voice-calling, and more... FINALLY
To the 'We Didn't Need It' Crowd/Apple Apologista Squad : Wrong again, lol
Thanks for listening to your...
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post #75 of 165
In terms of the BASIC features expected of a phone in the UK it is clear that the iPhone is not the best phone on the market, other phones have better cameras, flashes, video recording, better messenging capability and have the serious advantage of being built by manufacturers who have not only been making phones for over 10 years but also design and manufacture the equipment used in telco networks and all the voice experience they bring to the table.

What Apple have going for them and what people on here mistakenly believe are ground breaking features are cover-flow and visual voicemail. These are too gimmicky to be called true phone features, they add nothing to the quality of the voice call or the text messenging experience, all they do is make the user experience a bit more fun for a while till you get bored of that and want something else.

Don't confuse features with gimmicks!
post #76 of 165
I wouldn't count the people on web boards as an accurate representation of the whole European market, the same as we on these boards do not accurately represent the entire US market.

The latest number I've seen have 478 million mobile phone users in Europe nearly 100% of the market. 45 million of those users are 3G subscribers, 9.4%. Smartphone adoption is about 9%, so both are around the same. So there still is a lot of room for growth.

The iPhone some advantages going for it. The user interface and its superior apps. Its also likely Apple may have software updates with new apps before November. I'm sure these advantages will outweigh 3G for a good number of people in Europe.
post #77 of 165
Quote:
visual voicemail

You likely don't use visual voicemail, I wouldn't count it as a gimmick. It does add real time saving functionality. It would be difficult to go back to listening through all voice mails to find the one I want.
post #78 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

I wouldn't count the people on web boards as an accurate representation of the whole European market, the same as we on these boards do not accurately represent the entire US market.

The latest number I've seen have 478 million mobile phone users in Europe nearly 100% of the market. 45 million of those users are 3G subscribers, 9.4%. Smart-phone adoption is about 9%, so both are around the same. So there still is a lot of room for growth.

The iPhone some advantages going for it. The user interface and its superior apps. Its also likely Apple may have software updates with new apps before November. I'm sure these advantages will outweigh 3G for a good number of people in Europe.

Tenobell, there is a saying about statistics. The far biggest area of the mobile phone market in the UK is very low cost pay as you go phones. These phones still have have a camera, MMS, voice calling and text features but are bought for around 50-90 quid with no contract at all. I cannot see this senario changing in the near future, there are many people out there paying 10-20 quid a month on their phones and are not in a position to buy an iPhone.

If you laid the market out as such:

1 - business device
2 - high end consumer smart phone
3 - 3G consumer phone - with smart phone features
4 - 2G consumer phone
5 - 2G pay as you go


Apples market is really all of 2 and 3 (of course they should be hitting 1 but even without 3G i am not sure why they are not trying)

So the 9.4% who are buying 3G phones are actually make up the biggest chunk of Apples market, in fact i would go as far to say as they are Apples Market. So this lots of room for growth only exists in a section of the market that does not spend 270 quid on a handset and will not spend upwards of 40 quid a month on a contract.

What i have been saying all along is that the iPhone is not a bad phone, it is just the wrong phone for the market they are trying to sell into. When Apple release a phone that can be sold into the 4&5 segments then they may well be onto a winner but in the 2&3 segment there are already better and cheaper phones available and it remains to be seen how far the Apple brand can convince people to overlook the high cost and missing features of the iPhone.
post #79 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by S10 View Post

Oh my god! I feel like we're in the presence of GOD!

Heh, I have to ask, would you really blaspheme if you were in the presence of God? To His face no less!
post #80 of 165
Quote:
So the 9.4% who are buying 3G phones are actually make up the biggest chunk of Apples market, in fact i would go as far to say as they are Apples Market.

The smartphone number is not static it is quickly growing. Since Europe has pretty much topped out, the smartphone market is going to become the most lucrative and competitive.

Quote:
What i have been saying all along is that the iPhone is not a bad phone, it is just the wrong phone for the market they are trying to sell into.

You may be right, I don't live in Europe so I'm not disagreeing.

What I do think though is that too much emphasis is put purely on hardware spec. User interface, software functionality and ease of use all count just as equally. The hardware doesn't much matter if the software is too difficult to use.
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