Apple selects O2 as exclusive carrier for iPhone in UK - Page 2

Originally Posted by aegisdesign

The point is, you can get a Nokia N95 for a lower priced contract for FREE...

and it has more features than the iPhone (good 5mp camera, GPS inc Sat Nav etc) yet Apple want us to spend £269 and more on a contract. Huh?

This is a good deal for people in The City (London's financial district) which is covered in wifi provided by The Cloud. It's also the first unlimited data package in the UK.

Why does everyone nention the N95 like it's the gold standard? Is it that good?

Originally Posted by Ireland

I may be waiting another year or so, but I wont buy until I see 3G and 16GB of storage. I doubt I'm alone on this either.

Originally Posted by TenoBell

I'm confused some are saying this is a pretty good plan and some people are saying its a terrible plan. What I imagine is that those who say they have cheaper plans don't have unlimited internet. If you were to add unlimited internet to your cheaper plan would it still be cheaper than the iPhone plans?

Originally Posted by ecking

Why does everyone nention the N95 like it's the gold standard? Is it that good?

Originally Posted by SpinDrift

#3 - Camera. The 5MP camera is supposed to be a selling point for the N95. It's not bad for a phone, but cannot be even remotely compared to a 'proper' 5MP camera (Canon, Nikon etc). Also whenever you take a picture, the shoddy software wants you to do all kinds of things with the imave.. upload to album, send to contact... I JUST WANT TO TAKE A COUPLE OF PICS!!!!

Originally Posted by JeffDM

I don't care to get one, but I think that's odd, given the kind of camera that's on that. I would think that the N95 would at least take acceptable pictures, at least much better than you'd find on other phones. It doesn't look like an ordinary phone camera, it looks more like a phone was built around a conventional point-and-shoot. Other phones have a pin-sized lens and a pin-sized sensor.

Originally Posted by solipsism

Thanks for clearing that up. That is a whole lot of taxes.

Originally Posted by ecking

Why does everyone nention the N95 like it's the gold standard? Is it that good?

Unlimited internet costs between £5 and £10 a month, depending on the network.

Originally Posted by reidconti

I'm sure that $4.50 to ship from the uk to boulder, co isn't in any way subsidized by your taxes, huh?

Originally Posted by reidconti

I love how the uk'ers here are utterly ignoring the fact that people can get free phones here in the states, too, yet some of us still elect to pay more to get what we want. Stop rehashing last January's arguments. Maybe if apple had only renamed it the iMobile..

Originally Posted by tchwojko

So, Apple is betting enough people will think the iPhone is worth 269 more than an N95, much like the iPod initially commanded a premium. I'm not sure what's surprising here?

Originally Posted by tchwojko

More features != better. Apple has always been about carefully choosing fewer features and implementing them so they are utterly painless to use. (They don't always succeed, but they have a pretty good percentage in their favor.)

Originally Posted by tchwojko

None of that is to say the iPhone will succeed, but I bet it's not doomed either.

Originally Posted by S10

So for 269 Sterling you get an iPod touch that is also a phone with email possibilities that syncs perfectly with your Mac.
Sounds good to me! Considering that EVERYTHING is more expensive in the UK.

Originally Posted by S10

And for the lack of 3G, you get many free Wifi spots all over the country... much faster than 3G and much cheaper too.

Originally Posted by S10

And for those who prefer to get a free Nokia N95, great! Just add the iPod touch to your price comparison and all the hassle to sync 2 devices.. if you manage to sync that N95 at all.

Originally Posted by S10

And the N95 has a 5 MP camera... Wow, your photos will look so much better....... actually, they wont... amounts of MP is not important for quality.. it's the lens that makes photos good or bad... not that the iPhone lens is that great, but he.. it's a phone, not a camera!

Originally Posted by S10

And GPS in your phone, instead of Google maps... ok, for those that need a GPS on their phone I suppose it is a good thing... for those who need and want it...

Originally Posted by eAi

This is a good deal for people in The City (London's financial district) which is covered in wifi provided by The Cloud. It's also the first unlimited data package in the UK.

I'd say this is a pretty good deal overall.

Originally Posted by ecking

Why does everyone nention the N95 like it's the gold standard? Is it that good?

Originally Posted by gugy

It is always wise to wait for rev.2 for such a device anyway. If you are going to be lock into a 2 year contract you better have the best device you can get for that, period. I would not be surprise if by MWSF we will see a 16gb and 3G version. If not there by no later than March 08.

The iPhone development is happening very fast and Steve wants to sell 10 million by end of 2008, so you can bet the next revision will address most of the major issues and requests and will be a killer one.

The iPhone is fantastic, I have been very tempted to get one, but is good to wait. I am buying the iPod Touch meanwhile and then maybe selling it on eBay when the iPhone rev. 2 finally comes to life.

Originally Posted by SpinDrift

No, it's not even that good! I don't understand why everyone uses the N95 as the benchmark. I have one and it sucks! I can't wait for Nov 9th so I can ditch the Nokia.

Originally Posted by SpinDrift

#2 - Software. Nokia always used to be the kings of mobile software. I don't know what has happended over the past couple of years, but their software is so buggy now. Icons are shoddy, layout and themes are not properly thought through.

Originally Posted by SpinDrift

#3 - Camera. The 5MP camera is supposed to be a selling point for the N95. It's not bad for a phone, but cannot be even remotely compared to a 'proper' 5MP camera (Canon, Nikon etc). Also whenever you take a picture, the shoddy software wants you to do all kinds of things with the imave.. upload to album, send to contact... I JUST WANT TO TAKE A COUPLE OF PICS!!!!

Originally Posted by SpinDrift

#4 - Battery life. It's true what SJ says about 3G chipsets. Under heavy use, the battery life is quite poor.

Originally Posted by JeffDM

I don't care to get one, but I think that's odd, given the kind of camera that's on that. I would think that the N95 would at least take acceptable pictures, at least much better than you'd find on other phones. It doesn't look like an ordinary phone camera, it looks more like a phone was built around a conventional point-and-shoot. Other phones have a pin-sized lens and a pin-sized sensor.

The point is we can get Nokia's most expensive, most feature packed smartphone for free whereas Apple's much less capable device is £269.

The amount of MP *IS* important coupled to a good lens and a flash. Guess what, most high end Euro phones have all three.

But then if you need it, it's there, whereas you don't have that option at all with the iPhone.
It's like arguing that an ice cream with optional free hot fudge sauce isn't better than a plain ice cream, even if your ice cream melts quicker.

Go to any wedding in the UK these days and there's a dozen people with phones snapping, not cameras. It just shows up Apple's offering as being lack lustre by comparison - that's all - which the 'mp myth' fanboys don't seem to realise that there's a lower limit on quality, not just a higher limit on diminishing returns.

Originally Posted by TenoBell

More megapixels can add to quality. The megapix myth is saying that more mp does not necessarily add more quality.

Along with mp you need to improve the lens and the A/D processing. There is only so much you can do to improve all of that on a phone. While there is more room to improve these factors on a dedicated point and shoot.

Originally Posted by TenoBell

Feature packed means little if it isn't able to perform its features well. Really more features becomes a liability. I would prefer for features to wait until they can be used well. Without one features usability being sacrificed for some other feature.

Originally Posted by TenoBell

I would count lens and A/D imagine processing as the most important parts of a good picture. And there is no way a phone is going to do all of that better than a dedicated point and shoot.

Originally Posted by anantksundaram

Does anyone know how many of these Nokia has sold -- i.e., how is it going in the marketplace? Everyone talks about it as though it is quite ubiquitous ......

Originally Posted by solipsism

The free/nearly-free phone with contract subsidization gimmick is also the way phones are sold in the States. If you haven't noticed yet, Apple is trying to stop this. You pay for the phone outright and sign no contract upfront. You have no obligation to ever activate your iPhone. It's up to you activate it via iTunes at your convenience.

Originally Posted by TBaggins

Wow... judging by the comments after the article, many of the UKers over at Engadget are not happy at all with the Euro iPhone : \

http://www.engadget.com/2007/09/18/h...hone/#comments

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Originally Posted by anantksundaram

Posters at engadget.com do not seem like a very happy group of people, in general.

An especially unhappy and vocal group there seems to be those that regularly get VERY agitated every time the word "Apple" is mentioned in a story....

Originally Posted by aegisdesign

Nope. Royal Mail was privatised years ago.



We're ignoring it because it's totally irrelevant to the argument. The point is we can get Nokia's most expensive, most feature packed smartphone for free whereas Apple's much less capable device is £269.




The iPod when it was released was only a bit more expensive than the competition and the competition wasn't very good, to be more than kind. That's not like Apple v Nokia or Sony Ericsson today.




I agree entirely. But they've chosen to only implement a very small subset of features well in the iPhone's case missing out features we expect in Europe in an expensive phone.



I think it'll do ok too but I'm pretty sure that's based on it's brand image not it's price, features or ease of use.



Everything ISN'T more expensive in the UK. Healthcare and Education to name two.




Not really. Both are free so there's no cost difference. The Cloud hotspots are few and far between in some areas of the country and it doesn't really help you get fast internet access on a train. Where I live, O2 3G coverage is non-existent so it's not really a dilemma I have to face - I'm stuck with standard non-EDGE GPRS.



There'd be little point. The N95 has a decent enough media player already and yes it syncs just fine. http://europe.nokia.com/mac/isync/



The amount of MP *IS* important coupled to a good lens and a flash. Guess what, most high end Euro phones have all three.



Why not. It's free. And the N95 has Google maps too. Use either with the built in GPS.



It's obviously not the first unlimited data package because there's a 1400 page 'fair use' policy in place and t-mobile have been selling 'unlimited' data packages for over a year at least. The detail in the fine print will be interesting.

I'm not sure how many MB 1400 pages equates to if that's what they're estimating. Do they really count page views? I would have thought not. You have to wonder what the 1400 pages usage translates for YouTube usage.




It's a brick of a phone but it does do almost absolutely everything in one brick. If you want everything in one brick, it's the phone for you.




The iPhone's been out a few months now and no major gripes with the hardware beyond a few phones losing touch sensitivity. It's always worth waiting a few months perhaps but so far the iPhone v1 has been ok IMHO.

There's been more issues with iPod Touch already!

After what Jobs said today I'd be very surprised to see a 3G iPhone till at least mid 2008. It's only an 18 month contract here so not a big deal. O2's future 3G coverage map is showing no more coverage for me than current so I'd guess 3G is going to be mostly irrelevant.

Only thing I'd want now is a better camera so I don't have to carry around another device.




It's a good example of a free phone you can sell on eBay to people who value features over Apple-ness to pay for your iPhone.




Symbian OS 9 happened. It was very buggy. Couple it to Nokia's S60 interface and you've a turd on your hands. S60 was always the bastard child compared to UIQ and S80 but OS 9.0 added insult to injury.

Could be worse though - See Windows Mobile or PalmOS.



But it's also leagues better than the 2mp non-autofocus, non-flash teeny lens Apple camera and perfectly acceptable for snaps. I prefered the SE K800i's 3.2mp built in camera myself.



But then if you need it, it's there, whereas you don't have that option at all with the iPhone.

It's like arguing that an ice cream with optional free hot fudge sauce isn't better than a plain ice cream, even if your ice cream melts quicker.



It *IS* pretty good for a phone. I don't think it's as good as Sony's K800 3.2mp cybershot phone cameras. Even Moto's new phones are 3.2mp. Either would be fine for most people instead of a point and shoot. Go to any wedding in the UK these days and there's a dozen people with phones snapping, not cameras. It just shows up Apple's offering as being lack lustre by comparison - that's all - which the 'mp myth' fanboys don't seem to realise that there's a lower limit on quality, not just a higher limit on diminishing returns.

Originally Posted by TBaggins

I agree, but I don't think it was the usual crowd this time. Engadget was the most popular site providing live coverage of the UK event, so people just kinda herded on over there from everywhere, especially the UKers, obviously.

And we certainly have enough Euro folk here at AI expressing similar feelings towards the Euro iPhone.

Still think the Euro launch will go pretty well, but after that, I dunno. I think a lot of ppl over there will be sitting on their hands 'til an 'iPhone 2.0' shows up in '08. Or they'll just buy one of the many high-end alternatives. \
.

Originally Posted by TBaggins

Wow... judging by the comments after the article, many of the UKers over at Engadget are not happy at all with the Euro iPhone : \

http://www.engadget.com/2007/09/18/h...hone/#comments

.

That's not the myth though, that's the truth. Megapixels does not necessarily add more quality.

Sure, you can have feature overload but there's features missing or badly done already in the iPhone. eg. No video at all and who forgot the camera shutter button?

It doesn't have to be better, it just has to be 'good enough' and for many people that don't know what A/D is, many modern phones are 'good enough'.

Originally Posted by anantksundaram

We'll see. I predict that it will do very well in the UK. Why? Because of ease of use, cool looks, pushes the envelope in terms of integration of functionality, and for all but the internet (for which there is the wifi option), EDGE is pretty darn adequate.

Originally Posted by S10

You mean, the ones that write on Edgadget or any other forum.. say 0.0001% of the population?

Originally Posted by TBaggins

A good chunk of Euro folks don't seem to think EDGE is all that adequate, actually. Remember, they're a couple of years ahead of us in terms of having 3G, and in phone features too. Their expectations are a bit higher than ours.

Another problem is that O2's network isn't even EDGE in most places yet... it's apparently GPRS. Which is even slower... 30 kbps or so, real-world.

On the plus side, these guys will love it:




.

Originally Posted by Amorya

I reckon it'll still do well, just not with the geek/smartphone crowd. People who want a status symbol will love it. As will the kids who just want a phone to talk, text and play music.

The one thing that will affect adoption most isn't 3G, but lack of pay-as-you-go. And if the phone is not subsidised, there's no excuse for that. But hey, we've all heard the arguments, right?

Amorya

Originally Posted by Amorya

I reckon it'll still do well, just not with the geek/smartphone crowd. People who want a status symbol will love it. As will the kids who just want a phone to talk, text and play music.

visual voicemail

Originally Posted by TenoBell

I wouldn't count the people on web boards as an accurate representation of the whole European market, the same as we on these boards do not accurately represent the entire US market.

The latest number I've seen have 478 million mobile phone users in Europe nearly 100% of the market. 45 million of those users are 3G subscribers, 9.4%. Smart-phone adoption is about 9%, so both are around the same. So there still is a lot of room for growth.

The iPhone some advantages going for it. The user interface and its superior apps. Its also likely Apple may have software updates with new apps before November. I'm sure these advantages will outweigh 3G for a good number of people in Europe.

Originally Posted by S10

Oh my god! I feel like we're in the presence of GOD!

So the 9.4% who are buying 3G phones are actually make up the biggest chunk of Apples market, in fact i would go as far to say as they are Apples Market.

What i have been saying all along is that the iPhone is not a bad phone, it is just the wrong phone for the market they are trying to sell into.