or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPhone › Report claims iPhone will go 3G, gain GPS in early 2008
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Report claims iPhone will go 3G, gain GPS in early 2008 - Page 2

post #41 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by KennyWRX View Post

That's what I expected... there is no way he is going to say that its coming soon cause... it'll just kill present sales.


Yep. But Steve's up against a time wall in any case, in that the iPhone must have 3G for the Asian launch (slated for mid-'08). 'Cuz if it doesn't, it's going down in flames over there.

Japan and Korea have MUCH higher 3G penetration rates than the US or even Europe, and 3G will be more ubiquitous still by the time '08 rolls around.

A 2.5G iPhone gets laughed out of those markets, literally.

...
Cut-copy-paste, MMS, landscape keyboard, video-recording, voice-calling, and more... FINALLY
To the 'We Didn't Need It' Crowd/Apple Apologista Squad : Wrong again, lol
Thanks for listening to your...
Reply
Cut-copy-paste, MMS, landscape keyboard, video-recording, voice-calling, and more... FINALLY
To the 'We Didn't Need It' Crowd/Apple Apologista Squad : Wrong again, lol
Thanks for listening to your...
Reply
post #42 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBaggins View Post

Yep. But Steve's up against a time wall in any case, in that the iPhone must have 3G for the Asian launch (slated for mid-'08). 'Cuz if it doesn't, it's going down in flames over there.

Japan and Korea have MUCH higher 3G penetration rates than the US or even Europe, and 3G will be more ubiquitous still by the time '08 rolls around.

A 2.5G iPhone gets laughed out of those markets, literally.

...

At least in Japan, they live by their phones. I think I saw where they even buy items from vending machine by paying with their phones.
post #43 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Squirrel_Monkey View Post

it's ho-hum without GPS. It's like, here's this integrated tool that shows you where things are in a highly discernible format, but without a frame of reference as to where you are even though you're using a next-generation phone.

It's a pity that it doesnt even use (afaik) the cell towers to get a ballpark location. I mean, when you turn on Google Maps it could easily be set to your current suburb couldn't it?

Better yet - use the cell towers to really triangulate as this other technology is claimed to do. I imagine it's not as accurate as the proposd broadcom integrated system (otherwise, why integrate it?)
Quote:
Originally Posted by shamino View Post

Maybe I'm missing something, but how can you get your location from Wi-Fi? I know I never configured my home base station with any location coordinates<snip>

Do public-access Wi-Fi hotspots have a location feature my base station doesn't?

I guess it's possible for a wifi base station to give locations (eg: a DHCP server can send all kinds of information) though I don't know if they've got an existing standard. Another possibility is a database of wifi points - there are some wifi scanners which connect to GPS to build a dynamic 'map' of where all the wifi points are, so I'm sure that the reverse could see the name of an access point (secure or not) and look it up via a google database. This would give a street level location.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aegisdesign View Post

I'm hoping someone at some point hooks up a bluetooth GPS module.

Yes that'd be very useful. It just makes sense eh!?

Add a wifi mapping application and iPhones with GPS could start mapping wifi points, and upload wifi locations to google periodically
post #44 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpinDrift View Post

3G is always on and therefore always using power whether you're browsing the internet or not.

Yeah, but the question is, how much power?

Let's put it this way... I have a cellphone. It's 3G (EVDO), so there's definitely a 3G chip in there. It gets 3.5 hours of talk time, and 210 hours on standby.

So, on stand-by, the 3G chip is obviously drawing very little power.

But what about if the phone is in use, just not 3G use? Well, I know the service menu code for my phone, so I can (and do) go into the service menus and turn off 3G sometimes. It improves the battery life... a little. Maybe 10% more talk time. But nowhere near the night-and-day difference Steve described during the UK event.

Of course, I'm on a different 3G technology... EVDO. It may be that the common Euro 3G technogies (UMTS, HSDPA) are very different and worse in that regard.

If so, now I'm really pissed that Verizon (i.e. plenty o' 3G EVDO) and Apple couldn't work it out.

But another possibility is that Steve is simply exaggerating the battery life problems a bit. Why? Well, maybe 'cuz he doesn't have a 3G iPhone to sell yet...

.
Cut-copy-paste, MMS, landscape keyboard, video-recording, voice-calling, and more... FINALLY
To the 'We Didn't Need It' Crowd/Apple Apologista Squad : Wrong again, lol
Thanks for listening to your...
Reply
Cut-copy-paste, MMS, landscape keyboard, video-recording, voice-calling, and more... FINALLY
To the 'We Didn't Need It' Crowd/Apple Apologista Squad : Wrong again, lol
Thanks for listening to your...
Reply
post #45 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by acslater017 View Post

if 3G is currently unfeasible power-wise, i'd be impressed if they could pull off 3G and GPS by early '08. 2-hour battery life?

I doubt they could do it without make the phone thicker... which won't be appreciated.

I wonder which phone would sell better if a thinner 2G model was offered alongside a thicker 3G model.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shamino View Post

And don't forget the fact that an iPhone pings e-mail and voice-mail servers every couple of minutes - that's also going to draw power.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amorya View Post

My phone has options for when to use 3G: for calls, for MMS, or just for internet. I've got it set on just internet, and so it only starts the 3G transmitter when I start the web browser. Calls are still made using normal GSM.

I imagine that's quite possible. 3G phones already drop to Edge easily enough when 3G isn't available, why not do it to save power.

The only downside is for the phone companies . 3G is far more efficient for both voice and data, apparently.

Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

It would be nice if it turned on when you tapped on Safari, and went off when you closed it. but, I don't know how it would work.

That's probably the important part. Leave the background email & voicemail pings/checks on the low power Edge. Switch to 3G when the user is involved in the interface so maximum speed is useful.

Off topic: If you're out of range of AT&T, and a voicemail is left, will the phone pick it up at a wifi point?
post #46 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

At least in Japan, they live by their phones. I think I saw where they even buy items from vending machine by paying with their phones.

F*** yeah. It's a different world out there, market-wise.

Those people are insane about their phones, and phone tech in general.

.
Cut-copy-paste, MMS, landscape keyboard, video-recording, voice-calling, and more... FINALLY
To the 'We Didn't Need It' Crowd/Apple Apologista Squad : Wrong again, lol
Thanks for listening to your...
Reply
Cut-copy-paste, MMS, landscape keyboard, video-recording, voice-calling, and more... FINALLY
To the 'We Didn't Need It' Crowd/Apple Apologista Squad : Wrong again, lol
Thanks for listening to your...
Reply
post #47 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Cell location isn't accurate enough for live use. Present GPS locators can get to about a meter, or better, in a few cases. WiFi is not nearly ubiquitous enough to be of any use. I'm not sure how accurate it would be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GregAlexander View Post

It's a pity that it doesnt even use (afaik) the cell towers to get a ballpark location. I mean, when you turn on Google Maps it could easily be set to your current suburb couldn't it?

Better yet - use the cell towers to really triangulate as this other technology is claimed to do. I imagine it's not as accurate as the proposd broadcom integrated system (otherwise, why integrate it?).

Ideally it'd use assisted GPS (i.e. tower triangulation) whenever possible and hit the GPS chip itself once in a while to refine position.

If I recall correctly tower triangulation is good down to 150 feet, and theoretically could be a little better than that but they only need to hit 150 feet for legal purposes (e911).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Denton View Post

I might be wrong, but wouldn't the 3G transmitter always be on? There are probably power-savings modes, but I wonder whether they would double battery life if you weren't "surfing." Anyone know anything about this?

Nah. You can dynamically power it up and down when needed.

Although most phones do use it for voice calls (because it sounds better) it would be trivial to disable this and only use 3G when data needs climbed above a certain threshold (i.e. when web surfing).

Or, like this guy said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amorya View Post

My phone has options for when to use 3G: for calls, for MMS, or just for internet. I've got it set on just internet, and so it only starts the 3G transmitter when I start the web browser. Calls are still made using normal GSM.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TBaggins View Post

Yeah, but the question is, how much power? I have a cellphone. It's 3G (EVDO), so there's definitely a 3G chip in there. It gets 3.5 hours of talk time, and 210 hours on standby. So, on stand-by, the 3G chip is obviously drawing very little power.

I can (and do) go into the service menus and turn off 3G sometimes. It improves the battery life... a little. Maybe 10% more talk time. But nowhere near the night-and-day difference Steve described during the UK event.

Of course, I'm on a different 3G technology... EVDO. It may be that the common Euro 3G technogies (UMTS, HSDPA) are very different and worse in that regard.

30% worst case. UMTS is, if anything, probably better than EV-DO just given the fact there are a heck of a lot more development dollars and more commercial chipsets wandering around in UMTS than EV-DO.

The 30% is for Japanese UMTS/GSM phones. Their talk time/standby time on UMTS is up to (usually less than) 30% worse purely on UMTS versus purely on GSM. Obviously the iPhone would power up 3G when needed, so 30% is a worst case (or if you're in Japan/South Korea) scenario.


Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

He doesn't do it because it would make the phone thicker, heavier, and slightly more expensive.

I'd love to see some stats on just how many people actually do buy extra batteries. I'll bet the number is pretty low.

Agreed. What'd be more useful would be an external fast charger. Plug in for a minute and the iPhone's battery is back to half or whatever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JrDave2304 View Post

I really can't see Apple coming out with a 2nd gen 1Q 2008. There were people upset about a price cut 3 months after it's realease and I could only imagine how upset people would be after this, especially so close after the holiday season. I would guess no earlier than 3Q 2008, but I really am just basing this off of a hunch.

The phone market is a lot faster than the computer market. I quite frankly thought that a new 3G model now would have been the best move, although Macworld 2008 was always more likely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TBaggins View Post

Yep. But Steve's up against a time wall in any case, in that the iPhone must have 3G for the Asian launch (slated for mid-'08). 'Cuz if it doesn't, it's going down in flames over there.

Japan and Korea have MUCH higher 3G penetration rates than the US or even Europe, and 3G will be more ubiquitous still by the time '08 rolls around.

Since neither Korea nor Japan even have GSM or EDGE networks a 3G iPhone is required for those reasons, let alone the sensible market based reasons . Plus of course the other things a Japanese/South Korean iPhone needs like e-cash chip, a better camera, preferably digital TV, preferably GPS, and all the software for QR code handling and other stuff.
post #48 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Electric Monk View Post

Ideally it'd use assisted GPS (i.e. tower triangulation) whenever possible and hit the GPS chip itself once in a while to refine position.

That would be different, but would also require more chips, or at least one. No can do with current model.
post #49 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBaggins View Post

F*** yeah. It's a different world out there, market-wise.

Those people are insane about their phones, and phone tech in general.

.

Maybe they are 'insane' about their hardware.

I have heard many Japanese complain about the poor software quality, monopolisitc practices of service providers (e.g., crippled features), and high prices. I have experienced some of these problems myself during travels there (on rented phones). And, I don't know the technical details, but lots of people also complain that the Japanese mobile phone system is pretty much incompatible with just about every other major system in the world.

On top of it all, Japan in general is a declining, low-margin market for Apple. I have a feeling that Apple will pay more attention to China and India before they do Japan and Korea on the iPhone front.
post #50 of 86
Steve usually does not blab untrue timelines. Steve is known for his accuracy on timelines.


If he said late next year, he probably means late next year. Otherwise he will get a reputation as a liar (or under-player) and people will expect upside on every projection he makes. His track record is more neutral (and extremely impressive at that).
post #51 of 86
come on, its entirely possible.
Get your Ipod touch free. Ships September 28th. Just go to this link. I received an Nano Ipod (1st gen) and Ipod Video (5.5G). Great site.
http://freeipod.headplug.com/
Reply
Get your Ipod touch free. Ships September 28th. Just go to this link. I received an Nano Ipod (1st gen) and Ipod Video (5.5G). Great site.
http://freeipod.headplug.com/
Reply
post #52 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

That would be different, but would also require more chips, or at least one. No can do with current model.

Well, obviously they would need a GPS chip to do that, I was talking about the rumour and the possible addition of a GPS chip.

They could still do tower triangulation with the current model, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

I have heard many Japanese complain about the poor software quality, monopolisitc practices of service providers (e.g., crippled features), and high prices. I have experienced some of these problems myself during travels there (on rented phones). And, I don't know the technical details, but lots of people also complain that the Japanese mobile phone system is pretty much incompatible with just about every other major system in the world.

On top of it all, Japan in general is a declining, low-margin market for Apple. I have a feeling that Apple will pay more attention to China and India before they do Japan and Korea on the iPhone front.

Although you're right about the arrogance of the operators and the poor quality software those are exactly the areas Apple's been targeting. Odds are Apple partners with Softbank, the hungriest of the operators, and goes full bore.

Two of the three 3G networks in Japan (Softbank & NTT DoCoMo) use 2100 MHz UMTS, just like Europe and most of the world (North America uses 850/1900 MHz UMTS, and Australia uses 850/2100MHz UMTS). You may be thinking of their old 2G network which used PHS instead of CDMA or GSM, but those issues no longer apply.

Japan is a declining low margin market for Apple because they've spent the last few years ignoring it. If Apple spent a few years ignoring the US market (as, argaubly, they did in the 90s) see what happens. Japan (and South Korea) is, however, utterly phone mad and Apple could easily capitalize on that with the right iPhone model.

As for China and India please take a look at the mobile sales in those countries (also note China has weird network standards). Vast and increasing, for the very low margin low end part of the market. Apple does best in high per capita GDP countries (for obvious reasons) and in Asia that mean Japan & South Korea foremost, along with places like Singapore, Australia, and New Zealand.
post #53 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Electric Monk View Post

As for China and India please take a look at the mobile sales in those countries (also note China has weird network standards). Vast and increasing, for the very low margin low end part of the market. Apple does best in high per capita GDP countries (for obvious reasons) and in Asia that mean Japan & South Korea foremost, along with places like Singapore, Australia, and New Zealand.

You know a lot about Japan and Korea, but re. China/India, I am not so sure.

China has about 500 million mobile phone users. India about 250 (to be 500 in another few years). If 0.5% of the current users can be persuaded to buy an iPhone, that's nearly 4 million customers.

I can assure you that there are easily that many consumers in both countries who can quite comfortably plonk down $400 for a mobile phone. For instance, that would work out to 16,000 Indian Rupees, which many well-off Indians do not consider exorbitant for a high-end product. (For instance, it cost me 7000 Indian Rupees for a basic Nokia tri-band phone 3 years ago, when I needed something to be able to use during a visit). And, Apple will not have to deal with the tech hassles from mature consumers and service providers as they would in Japan and Korea, since there is an opportunity to get in on the ground floor.

In any event, we'll just have to wait and see how all this pans out, since all we have now are opinions. You may well be right. Or I.
post #54 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Electric Monk View Post

Japan is a declining low margin market for Apple because they've spent the last few years ignoring it.

And, why do you think Apple may have been doing that? I.e., are you saying you are sure of the cause and effect here?
post #55 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

And, why do you think Apple may have been doing that? I.e., are you saying you are sure of the cause and effect here?

I'd have to agree with Electric Monk... the cause of poor share in Japan for Apple seems to be due to Apple ignoring the market.

For example, Japanese customers have been screaming for Apple to release a subnotebook for years (a market segment that's popular there). Apple just hasn't delivered anything in that space in many years.

So is it really Japan's fault that they don't buy a lot of Apple notebooks? You have to give them the products they want, first. \

.
Cut-copy-paste, MMS, landscape keyboard, video-recording, voice-calling, and more... FINALLY
To the 'We Didn't Need It' Crowd/Apple Apologista Squad : Wrong again, lol
Thanks for listening to your...
Reply
Cut-copy-paste, MMS, landscape keyboard, video-recording, voice-calling, and more... FINALLY
To the 'We Didn't Need It' Crowd/Apple Apologista Squad : Wrong again, lol
Thanks for listening to your...
Reply
post #56 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

You know a lot about Japan and Korea, but re. China/India, I am not so sure.

China has about 500 million mobile phone users. India about 250 (to be 500 in another few years). If 0.5% of the current users can be persuaded to buy an iPhone, that's nearly 4 million customers.

Japan still has a larger GDP than China and India... combined. And is obviously a huge market, especially for cellphones. Korea is nothing to sneeze at either.

Thus, Apple would be a bit nuts to not want to sell to them. Its not like 3G and advanced features are terribly hard to provide... companies with far less software prowess than Apple have been doing it for years now.

Obviously, Apple wants to sell to China and India and Japan and South Korea. There's no huge reason for an 'either/or' scenario.

.
Cut-copy-paste, MMS, landscape keyboard, video-recording, voice-calling, and more... FINALLY
To the 'We Didn't Need It' Crowd/Apple Apologista Squad : Wrong again, lol
Thanks for listening to your...
Reply
Cut-copy-paste, MMS, landscape keyboard, video-recording, voice-calling, and more... FINALLY
To the 'We Didn't Need It' Crowd/Apple Apologista Squad : Wrong again, lol
Thanks for listening to your...
Reply
post #57 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

He doesn't do it because it would make the phone thicker, heavier, and slightly more expensive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post


It would also have the tendency of having the battery pop out the way I see it happen with many other phones that people drop. The phone hits the ground, and the battery, and door, if there is a separate one, go flying.

I'd love to see some stats on just how many people actually do buy extra batteries. I'll bet the number is pretty low.



I have owned countless cell phone as have most everyone I know and I can tell you that not a one has ever had to purchase a battery. I usually end up purchasing a new phone as do those I know. Afterall in a lot of cases you can get a new phone for not too much more than you'd spend on a battery.
post #58 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by dwcerra View Post


I have owned countless cell phone as have most everyone I know and I can tell you that not a one has ever had to purchase a battery. I usually end up purchasing a new phone as do those I know. Afterall in a lot of cases you can get a new phone for not too much more than you'd spend on a battery.

I bought an extra battery for my RAZR. That thing wouldn't hold a charge longer than 24 hours. If I ever traveled anywhere, I was either tied to an electrical outlet or out of juice.

I agree that a lot of people get another phone instead of replacing their battery, but we're talking people who can get a phone upgrade for free v. needing to purchase another iPhone for $600.

It is likely that when my iPhone battery dies, I will have already upgraded to the 3G/GPS phone provided it is available then. I don't foresee me needing a battery for another two years. The battery life of the iPhone has been highly exaggerated.
post #59 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by dwcerra View Post


I have owned countless cell phone as have most everyone I know and I can tell you that not a one has ever had to purchase a battery. I usually end up purchasing a new phone as do those I know. Afterall in a lot of cases you can get a new phone for not too much more than you'd spend on a battery.


I've gotten a new battery, as has a friend of mine. In neither case was it to "have two batteries" to swap back and forth, though. My friend beat her battery into the ground over the course of daily charging for two years, and in my case I was just lazy and wanted an extended batt so I'd hardly ever have to recharge it.

.
Cut-copy-paste, MMS, landscape keyboard, video-recording, voice-calling, and more... FINALLY
To the 'We Didn't Need It' Crowd/Apple Apologista Squad : Wrong again, lol
Thanks for listening to your...
Reply
Cut-copy-paste, MMS, landscape keyboard, video-recording, voice-calling, and more... FINALLY
To the 'We Didn't Need It' Crowd/Apple Apologista Squad : Wrong again, lol
Thanks for listening to your...
Reply
post #60 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Electric Monk View Post

Well, obviously they would need a GPS chip to do that, I was talking about the rumour and the possible addition of a GPS chip.

Ok, I thought it read as though you were saying they could do that now.

Quote:
They could still do tower triangulation with the current model, though.

Of course, but it's not nearly enough for navigation.
post #61 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by dwcerra View Post


I have owned countless cell phone as have most everyone I know and I can tell you that not a one has ever had to purchase a battery. I usually end up purchasing a new phone as do those I know. Afterall in a lot of cases you can get a new phone for not too much more than you'd spend on a battery.

That's my experience as well.
post #62 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by southerndoc View Post

It is likely that when my iPhone battery dies, I will have already upgraded to the 3G/GPS phone provided it is available then. I don't foresee me needing a battery for another two years. The battery life of the iPhone has been highly exaggerated.

Do you mean to say that the "poor" battery life of the iPhone has been highly exaggerated? That's the way what you've said actually reads.
post #63 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Do you mean to say that the "poor" battery life of the iPhone has been highly exaggerated? That's the way what you've said actually reads.

Yes. 80% charge after 300-400 cycles is pretty good. Too many people think you need to replace the battery after only a year.
post #64 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Constable Odo View Post

You are really facing a self-made dilemma. You can buy a current iPhone and sell it when a new version comes out if that's feasible. Even if a 3G, GPS-enabled iPhone is introduced, there's no guarantee that the US will get it first (I don't know if you're in the US or not). Or you can buy some other inexpensive handset with a short-term contract and wait it out for the next iPhone model. I'd make the latter choice, but my opinion is worthless since I don't even own a cellphone.

I think I will prolly end up going with the later. I would go/want to go for the Blackberry Curve, except for the data plan costing an additional $29.99/month.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Electric Monk View Post

The phone market is a lot faster than the computer market. I quite frankly thought that a new 3G model now would have been the best move, although Macworld 2008 was always more likely.

Yeah I think you're right. Let's hope for a Macworld 2008 introduction of an iPhone with all the features we all want/need. Though, I was hoping for this a little sooner because of my situation above!
post #65 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpinDrift View Post

3G is always on and therefore always using power whether you're browsing the internet or not.

This is not true of most phones I've used. You can switch 3G off entirely. Where I live it's borderline 3G on some providers so the phone spends all it's time switching back and forth. Because of that it's often better to switch 3G off and revert to plain old GPRS.
post #66 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Of course, but it's not nearly enough for navigation.

Tower triangulation would at least put you on the right page in GoogleMaps though to start with which would be useful enough walking if not driving.
post #67 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by zunx View Post

We want a full computer in our hands. Now possible with Intel Silverthorne chip...

Sony has been shipping these for a few years now. A full-blown PC, and portable (fits in a handbag, not pocket size.)

But I assume that's not what you were thinking of. You want a full-blown computer, the size of an iPhone, and at the price of an iPod. IMO, that will always be wishful thinking.
Quote:
Originally Posted by freelander51 View Post

If you surf the net every day for two straight hours to and fro you will get seriously bored. At the end of the day "one" settles for one or two news sites and maybe a sports site.

Oh and how about that old analogue and reliable friend when commuting called "a good book" or a magazine ?

I love these kinds of replies. Someone asks a question, I answer, then someone else says "I wouldn't do that, so you shouldn't either."

Maybe you would never surf the web for two hours a day. I usually do. Every day I read four mailboxes, 30 webcomics, MacInTouch, MacBytes, my LJ Friends, and 20 RSS feeds. Depending on the level of activity and the number of interesting articles, it takes between 30 minutes and 3 hours to get through it all.

If I commuted by bus or train, you can be certain I'd want to use that time doing my daily surfing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Does Apple make car adapters for iPods (let alone iPhones)? Or do third party providers?

Apple doesn't make any, but many other companies do. The Apple Store resells devices from Belkin, Griffin, Kensington, Monster, and XtremeMac. Some are straight chargers, and some bundle FM transmitters.

Also, many car stereos include (or offer as an option) iPod integration kits, where a single dock-cable pulls audio from the iPod, allows the stereo to control it, and charges it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBaggins View Post

Yep. But Steve's up against a time wall in any case, in that the iPhone must have 3G for the Asian launch (slated for mid-'08). 'Cuz if it doesn't, it's going down in flames over there.

I assume this is one of the reasons Apple is starting to sell iPhones in Europe and they haven't yet announced anything in Asia. That announcement probably won't happen until they can get suitable 3G chipsets (that is, small enough, light enough, and low-enough power consumption.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBaggins View Post

If so, now I'm really pissed that Verizon (i.e. plenty o' 3G EVDO) and Apple couldn't work it out.

Verizon won't let anything on their network unless they can cripple the phone. A Verizon-compatible iPhone would have the entire user interface removed, and replaced with the same brain-dead menu interface that they use on all their other phones. They'd probably also insist on disabling Wi-Fi, and block iTunes, so you can only move data in/out by going through their "get it now" service. You wouldn't want to buy the result.

And then there are more reasonable reasons why Verizon will balk, including the fact that they'll need to install new back-end software to make visual voice-mail work, and the fact that Apple wants a percentage of every user's monthly bill (like they get from AT&T).

Combined with the fact that Apple has a five-year exclusive contract with AT&T for US service, I don't think we'll see a CDMA/EVDO iPhone from Verizon for a very long time. Which is a real pity, because I would love to have one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBaggins View Post

But another possibility is that Steve is simply exaggerating the battery life problems a bit. Why? Well, maybe 'cuz he doesn't have a 3G iPhone to sell yet...

That wouldn't surprise me either. I remember when the iMac/G4 was sold, that Steve went on at length about how vertical-oriented optical drives always have lousy performance. He stuck by this story for years, right up until the iMac/G5 shipped, with a vertical optical drive.

So you're right to be skeptical about Steve's statements. I'm sure he's not lying, but I doubt he's telling the whole truth either.
post #68 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by shamino View Post

A Verizon-compatible iPhone would have the entire user interface removed, and replaced with the same brain-dead menu interface that they use on all their other phones. They'd probably also insist on disabling Wi-Fi, and block iTunes, so you can only move data in/out by going through their "get it now" service. You wouldn't want to buy the result.

HA!

The iPhone is almost there for Verizon software wise.

Can't use it in disk mode, Can't use it as a modem, Bluetooth crippled, Can't install software of your own, Overly simplistic interface with many missing features, Can't use any music as a ringtone, email crippled unless you use Yahoo.

Apple is the new Verizon.


However, call me naïve but I have some actual faith in Apple adding features over the next two years as they've promised when the carriers tend to not add features in their ROM updates over fixing bugs in the original ROMs.
post #69 of 86
Quote:
Apple is the new Verizon.

Its still different. Verizon disables these functions so they can charge you extra for their use. Most all of the functions on the iPhone don't have an extra charge.

Even with the ring tone situation. Which I feel are annoying in general and people are stupid to pay for. With Verizon, Sprint, T-Mobile you pay more, have a limited time to use the ring tone, and have to pay for it again.
post #70 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Its still different. Verizon disables these functions so they can charge you extra for their use. Most all of the functions on the iPhone don't have an extra charge.

Even with the ring tone situation. Which I feel are annoying in general and people are stupid to pay for. With Verizon, Sprint, T-Mobile you pay more, have a limited time to use the ring tone, and have to pay for it again.

I was joking somewhat but to us in the UK who don't usually have restrictions on bluetooth, modems, ringtones it appears more like Apple are the new Verizon than not. Ringtones is a prime example. Every phone I've had in the last 6 years, regardless of carrier, has been able to select any mp3 track as the ringtone without paying a penny.
post #71 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by aegisdesign View Post

Tower triangulation would at least put you on the right page in GoogleMaps though to start with which would be useful enough walking if not driving.

Agreed, but that's not what most people would expect from it.
post #72 of 86
Quote:
I was joking somewhat but to us in the UK who don't usually have restrictions on bluetooth, modems, ringtones it appears more like Apple are the new Verizon than not.

It does suck as those restrictions are an extension of the crappy mobile service in the US. A lot is going to happen between now and November. So I would imagine this conversation will be different by them.

The ring tone situation is a sticky one for Apple. None of the other cell phone manufacturers developed the leading on-line media downloading service. So they are free to allow mp3's to be used as ring tones. Apple is trying to squeeze more concessions from the record labels. Those negotiations would fall apart if Apple participated in taking their 6 billion dollar ring tone business away from them.
post #73 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by shamino View Post

I love these kinds of replies. Someone asks a question, I answer, then someone else says "I wouldn't do that, so you shouldn't either."

Maybe you would never surf the web for two hours a day. I usually do.

Very well said. I personally find "I don't do that, you shouldn't either" responses annoying as well, and fairly pointless.

Quote:
Verizon won't let anything on their network unless they can cripple the phone.

To be fair, Verizon has started to hear some of the criticism, and the Bluetooth stack on many of their newer phones is a lot more functional than it used to be.

No, you're still not going to be able to transfer ringtones wherever you want (tho' there's workarounds for that), but overall, they're crippling bluetooth a lot less now.

Meanwhile, take a look at the BT stack on the iPhone... just about nothing works 'cept the headset and hands-free profiles, last I checked. That's actually a lot less BT functionality than most recent VZW phones.

Quote:
A Verizon-compatible iPhone would have the entire user interface removed, and replaced with the same brain-dead menu interface that they use on all their other phones. They'd probably also insist on disabling Wi-Fi, and block iTunes, so you can only move data in/out by going through their "get it now" service. You wouldn't want to buy the result.

Obviously, those would be deal-breakers for Apple. They're not going to give up the iPhone UI, and they're not going to herd users to Verizon's crappy WMA-centric 'VCast Music' store. It's my hope that the iPhone will be successful enough to make VZW have to compromise, at some point.

Quote:
And then there are more reasonable reasons why Verizon will balk, including the fact that they'll need to install new back-end software to make visual voice-mail work, and the fact that Apple wants a percentage of every user's monthly bill (like they get from AT&T).

Well, I think visual voicemail is the future, regardless... at some point VZW will have to support it. Far as balking at Apple's terms, again, it's a business deal- if the iPhone is doing well enough, at some point VZW does better by doing a deal with Apple than not doing one.

But it's also probably VZW's hope that the upcoming wave of 'iPhone clones' do well enough that either there's no need for VZW to cut a deal with Apple, or if they do cut a deal, it's on terms more favorable to VZW.

Quote:
Combined with the fact that Apple has a five-year exclusive contract with AT&T for US service, I don't think we'll see a CDMA/EVDO iPhone from Verizon for a very long time. Which is a real pity, because I would love to have one.

Actually, there's been some rumors that the ATT exclusive is only rock-solid for two years, with an option to go five, if both parties agree.

If so, I wouldn't expect Apple to agree. Why sell to only 25% of the US market (ATT's share), when you call sell to over 85% of it by doing deals with all of the 'Big Four' national carriers?


Quote:
That wouldn't surprise me either. I remember when the iMac/G4 was sold, that Steve went on at length about how vertical-oriented optical drives always have lousy performance. He stuck by this story for years, right up until the iMac/G5 shipped, with a vertical optical drive.

So you're right to be skeptical about Steve's statements. I'm sure he's not lying, but I doubt he's telling the whole truth either.

Steve's a... salesman, first and foremost. That's prolly the nicest way of putting it. But I'm glad that he's Apple's salesman.


.
Cut-copy-paste, MMS, landscape keyboard, video-recording, voice-calling, and more... FINALLY
To the 'We Didn't Need It' Crowd/Apple Apologista Squad : Wrong again, lol
Thanks for listening to your...
Reply
Cut-copy-paste, MMS, landscape keyboard, video-recording, voice-calling, and more... FINALLY
To the 'We Didn't Need It' Crowd/Apple Apologista Squad : Wrong again, lol
Thanks for listening to your...
Reply
post #74 of 86
3G would finally make the iPhone a must have device and I still don't think we have the whole story on why it isn't 3G right now. For sure, 3G is rolling out slowly in the USA but a 3D phone can also use 2G and 2.5G.

GPS... well, it would be OK but I wonder it it would really be more of a gimmick.

3G combined with some VOIP and other cool apps would make me rush out and buy an iPhone today.
post #75 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archiform 3D View Post

GPS... well, it would be OK but I wonder it it would really be more of a gimmick.

When was the last time you were in a motor factors?

In the UK at least, they're wall to wall GPS units, TomTom, Magellan etc. The iPhone with GPS and TomTom GO installed on it would be very popular instead of a separate GPS unit.

Sure, they're mostly gimmicks too, but they sell a lot.
post #76 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by aegisdesign View Post

When was the last time you were in a motor factors?

In the UK at least, they're wall to wall GPS units, TomTom, Magellan etc. The iPhone with GPS and TomTom GO installed on it would be very popular instead of a separate GPS unit.

Sure, they're mostly gimmicks too, but they sell a lot.

The only problem I see with that, is that most of the auto GPS models I see here also have audio. The phone won't, at least, not without an accessory.

The better models also have bigger screens. you don't want a small screen when you're in traffic, and have to glance over to read where the next turn is.
post #77 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

The only problem I see with that, is that most of the auto GPS models I see here also have audio. The phone won't, at least, not without an accessory.

The iPhone has a speaker built in or since it's probably linked in to your car hifi system anyway, use that.
post #78 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

The only problem I see with that, is that most of the auto GPS models I see here also have audio. The phone won't, at least, not without an accessory.

The better models also have bigger screens. you don't want a small screen when you're in traffic, and have to glance over to read where the next turn is.

?? Confused

Melgross, please, you are not telling me that the iPhone has not got a hands free speaker are you?
post #79 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by murphyweb View Post

?? Confused

Melgross, please, you are not telling me that the iPhone has not got a hands free speaker are you?

I get it, you are probably talking about google maps not having sound i guess.

That is a point though i would imagine a good move for google would be proper maps that they can try and licence to SatNav manufacturers, putting a real SatNav application on the iPhone would be the only point of including GPS.
post #80 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by aegisdesign View Post

When was the last time you were in a motor factors?

In the UK at least, they're wall to wall GPS units, TomTom, Magellan etc. The iPhone with GPS and TomTom GO installed on it would be very popular instead of a separate GPS unit.

Sure, they're mostly gimmicks too, but they sell a lot.

Second that, although would not go as far as calling them gimmicks. It seems that everyone has a SatNav in their car now - i do! They are incredibly useful and getting better all the time with live traffic updates, nearest petrol station, macdonalds, speed traps etc..

All this talk about how using cells as a better alternative to GPS can only be said by people who have never used a GPS, nothing is better.

For interest have a look at the new Galileo system that the EU are currently building, they say it will end up running the entire road network in Europe charging every user for every km they drive.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_positioning_system
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: iPhone
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPhone › Report claims iPhone will go 3G, gain GPS in early 2008