Steve Jobs fields questions following Apple's UK iPhone launch - Page 2

Originally Posted by AppleInsider

It's likely that those applications would be the first of any to receive an official endorsement from Apple, according to Jobs' comments, as those that require Internet access could threaten the 'high standard' of experience customers have come to expect with the iPhone.

Originally Posted by Ti Fighter

why not? apple could make an extended battery, other companies do it. I would much rather have a 3g iPhone with a slight buldge on the back than an edge phone who's battery life isn't even that great.

Originally Posted by Louzer

I can't believe no one' picking on this. First, what is this 'high-standard of experience' apple is talking about. And, second, why exactly would non-internet apps be OK, but internet-based ones would somehow magically threaten that experience. Wouldn't stand-alone apps have just the same ability to threaten that experience? Or is it Apple wanting to make sure no one dares do anything that could cut into their business model?

Originally Posted by Ti Fighter

Also let's not forget there are plenty of 3G phones that last a whole day using phone/music/net/email on one charge. My moto q being one.

Originally Posted by AppleInsider


Jobs also left the door open for a 3G version of the iPhone somewhere down the line, but maintained that current 3G chipsets are "power hogs." He said most of today's 3G devices have battery lives that span only 2 to 3 hours, compared to the iPhone's average 8 hours. "We've got to see the battery lives for 3G get back up into the 5+ hour range," he said. "Hopefully we'll see that late next year."

Originally Posted by anantksundaram

No offense intended to anyone, but from a design/looks standpoint, most people think that "thin is cool."

Originally Posted by ouragan

Steve Jobs is so greedy!!! What he wants to do is illegal as it denies the ownership of iPhone buyers. Apple VP of Legal Affairs should instruct Steve Jobs that:

1) Apple is breaking consumer protection laws in preventing consumers from choosing a phone carrier for the phones they buy and own;

2) Apple is likely breaking the laws against false advertising;

3) Apple is breaking antitrust laws because tied sales are illegal in that a seller cannot tie the sale of a product, the iPhone, with a service, the ATT or O2 cell phone service;

4) Apple signed a contract which cannot be enforced against iPhone buyers without breaking the law, especially the right of every owner to choose what he wants to do with what he owns, as iPhones are sold, not leased;

5) Apple will damage its image with consumers by breaking the law to enforce a contract that cannot be enforced, just as Apple damaged its image with investors by paying a $650 million bonus to Steve Jobs in 2006, making him the highest paid CEO on the planet.

Originally Posted by caliminius

Isn't Jobs' comment about the short battery life somewhat of a half-truth? I could see the battery life being shortened to 2-3 hours if someone were constantly using 3G, but how often is someone going to be doing that?

[ ... stuff deleted ...]

Just seems at times Jobs likes to pull excuses out of his a**.

Originally Posted by jhayman

They do not publish battery time for internet use, audio or video playback.

Originally Posted by melgross

There are companies that make portable battery rechargers for the iPhone, and iPods.

They use a larger battery than the devices use. You recharge them, and take them with you. If you need to charge your device battery, you plug them into this, and it does that.

While I don't remember the names of the companies who have these products, they are out there.

Originally Posted by OriginalMacRat

"[P]eople are going to try and break in and it's our job to try and stop them."

Huh?

It's Apple's job to LIMIT use of their product?

Originally Posted by BlackSummerNight

my battery life is great using the extended battery, its only ok using the slim battery. I use opera mini to surf the net, check gmail,dowload song/video clips, and play nintendo games quite frequently.

Originally Posted by vinney57

No. It's Steve's job to make it look as if they are making an effort to limit use; to appease their network partners who are paying Apple large amounts of money for the privalege of working for them.

Originally Posted by Booga

So your solution to the 3G power consumption problem is to have the user swap out their cellphone battery every 2 hours? Let's just say I'm glad it's Apple doing the product design.

Originally Posted by BlackSummerNight

I have a SaMSUNG Blackjack, and it comes with a extended battery, and has the ability to choose between edge and 3g. there also is a auto select feature that will wich one of the two, that is available

Originally Posted by OriginalMacRat

"[P]eople are going to try and break in and it's our job to try and stop them."

Huh?

It's Apple's job to LIMIT use of their product?

Originally Posted by segastyle

actually, 3g vs. edge can make a huge impact on talk time, because even though you are not downloading data (as in a web page) you are talking on that network. AnandTech has an article about 3g vs edge battery life on a samsung blackjack:
http://www.anandtech.com/printarticle.aspx?i=3036

for just talk time, on 3g a blackjack got 251 minutes, but on edge got 525 minutes. that's a huge disparity. in other cases the difference was much less and in some cases (email) even better for 3g than edge.

Originally Posted by Rot'nApple

I'm not a technical person, but does the iPhone "talk" over the network checking e-mail and maybe other things(?) and does a derivative of OS X & iTunes, etc. have anything to do with battery drain due to receiving data packets. I mean didn't people who went to Europe and did not turn off their EDGE or whatever have huge bills at the end of the month. Does this cause a big drain on the battery as is when on EDGE and even worse if on a 3G network?

I keep reading posts of people with G3 phones saying they get ok time from the battery then what SJ says but does SJ know more because the iPhone is not like your standard Nokia, Samsung etc. cell phone maker? The iPhone is more OS computer centric then others? Just curious???

Originally Posted by ouragan

Steve Jobs is so greedy!!! What he wants to do is illegal as it denies the ownership of iPhone buyers. Apple VP of Legal Affairs should instruct Steve Jobs that:

Originally Posted by ouragan

1) Apple is breaking consumer protection laws in preventing consumers from choosing a phone carrier for the phones they buy and own;

Originally Posted by ouragan

2) Apple is likely breaking the laws against false advertising;

Originally Posted by ouragan

3) Apple is breaking antitrust laws because tied sales are illegal in that a seller cannot tie the sale of a product, the iPhone, with a service, the ATT or O2 cell phone service;

Originally Posted by ouragan

4) Apple signed a contract which cannot be enforced against iPhone buyers without breaking the law, especially the right of every owner to choose what he wants to do with what he owns, as iPhones are sold, not leased;

Originally Posted by ouragan

5) Apple will damage its image with consumers by breaking the law to enforce a contract that cannot be enforced, just as Apple damaged its image with investors by paying a $650 million bonus to Steve Jobs in 2006, making him the highest paid CEO on the planet.

Originally Posted by caliminius

Isn't Jobs' comment about the short battery life somewhat of a half-truth?

Originally Posted by Louzer

I can't believe no one' picking on this. First, what is this 'high-standard of experience' apple is talking about. And, second, why exactly would non-internet apps be OK, but internet-based ones would somehow magically threaten that experience. Wouldn't stand-alone apps have just the same ability to threaten that experience? Or is it Apple wanting to make sure no one dares do anything that could cut into their business model?

Originally Posted by aljawad

This debate about battery life and 3G must be treated seriously, and once Apple is done marketing the iPhone in Europe the Japanese market - where Edge is a joke - beckons. I have been using 3G phones for a while now. I prefer phones from Sony-Ericsson, and I try to hookup the device to charge overnight, but not always. My current phone is the SE P1i which I use extensively as a phone, internet/email (via Wi-Fi, on the phone itself and bluetoothed to my portable computer), video calling (a few calls each day). I need to charge it once every other day..

Originally Posted by Rot'nApple

I'm not a technical person, but does the iPhone "talk" over the network checking e-mail and maybe other things(?) and does a derivative of OS X & iTunes, etc. have anything to do with battery drain due to receiving data packets. I mean didn't people who went to Europe and did not turn off their EDGE or whatever have huge bills at the end of the month. Does this cause a big drain on the battery as is when on EDGE and even worse if on a 3G network?

Originally Posted by anantksundaram

Could you be more specific? 3 hours with mixed use? 4? 5? 6?

I regularly get about 6 hours with mixed use on the iPhone.

Originally Posted by caliminius

Isn't Jobs' comment about the short battery life somewhat of a half-truth? I could see the battery life being shortened to 2-3 hours if someone were constantly using 3G, but how often is someone going to be doing that? I believe my current Verizon phone has 3G (EVDO is a 3G network, correct?). It will last a couple of days without needing recharged since I don't use the 3G network (nor is it disabled in anyway, just not actively used). I'd imagine that most places you're going to use the iPhone long term would be the same places you could have wi-fi and 3G usage would still be pretty limited (just like EDGE) to short spans between wi-fi hotspots. The iPhone battery life would also be helped if Apple allowed real applications on the phone (thus not requiring "apps" to be using the data network).

Just seems at times Jobs likes to pull excuses out of his a**. Like the previous lame excuse explaining why no 3rd party apps allowed on the phone because it could bring down the AT&T network (if the AT&T network is that fragile, they shouldn't be running a cellular network in the first place).

Originally Posted by Constable Odo

Why is the iPhone a power hog? It has more memory? It has a larger screen? A more powerful processor? People would have a tendency to use the iPhone constantly. You really believe Apple is conning people about 3G chips being power hungry. To what end? Apple could build a brick phone that's much thicker and that has a bigger battery to get longer life. Maybe that's what you want and that's why you own a Motorola Q. I'm not putting down the MotoQ. It has different dimensions from the iPhone.

I personally think the iPhone should be a bit thicker to get more battery life, but that's not my decision.

Originally Posted by Electric Monk

That does strike me as weird, especially since much of the best potential for iPhone apps exists in using the web/desktop hybrid model (as Apple's own applications do). Perhaps it's aimed directly at VOIP.

Technically speaking EDGE (or GSM) doesn't even exist in the Japanese market. In fact both the South Korean and Japanese markets will require a 3G iPhone model. They also require an e-cash chip, a better camera, preferably digital TV, preferably GPS, and a lot of additional software for stuff like QR code handling.

Originally Posted by Electric Monk

Of course it is, but it's also his job to protect Apple the company. Note the late next year comment about a 3G iPhone. That's insane (giving up the Asian market until the end of 2008?) but if he said at Macworld 2008 there will be a 3G iPhone then current sales would slow, stock would drop, and he wouldn't have been doing his job.

As I continue to point out 3G used constantly on a modern UMTS phone (i.e. Japan) has a battery drain of around 30%.

On an iPhone in Europe or the USA 3G would be powered up dynamically when needed to download data (and, perhaps, optionally for better sounding voice calls) and thus we're looking at a situation where 30% is the worst case scenario and 10% is more likely.

That does strike me as weird, especially since much of the best potential for iPhone apps exists in using the web/desktop hybrid model (as Apple's own applications do). Perhaps it's aimed directly at VOIP.

Technically speaking EDGE (or GSM) doesn't even exist in the Japanese market. In fact both the South Korean and Japanese markets will require a 3G iPhone model. They also require an e-cash chip, a better camera, preferably digital TV, preferably GPS, and a lot of additional software for stuff like QR code handling.

Talking over 3G would impose little more battery impact than talking over EDGE. You lose a little turning the 3G chipset on/off, you lose a little because 3G uses more power, you gain a little because it will all download much faster.

Originally Posted by vinea

I don't see Japan as a big market for Apple right now. They've certainly put very lackluster effort into it and the product needs are different from the US. Note the lack of ultraportable in the laptop lineup.

I suspect Apple would be happy serving those two market with just the iPod touch and foregoing the iPhone for the moment. Those additional requirements you listed simply don't look likely.

Originally Posted by vinea

I don't see Japan as a big market for Apple right now. They've certainly put very lackluster effort into it and the product needs are different from the US. Note the lack of ultraportable in the laptop lineup.

I suspect Apple would be happy serving those two market with just the iPod touch and foregoing the iPhone for the moment. Those additional requirements you listed simply don't look likely.

Originally Posted by Electric Monk

It's the world's third largest market (and a lot more homogeneous then America or Europe), has a high per capita GDP, and is utterly mobile mad (much much more so then they'd care about the touch).

Ignoring Japan & South Korea because Apple wasn't willing to make minor hardware/software changes to the iPhone is insane.

Originally Posted by caliminius

Isn't Jobs' comment about the short battery life somewhat of a half-truth? I could see the battery life being shortened to 2-3 hours if someone were constantly using 3G, but how often is someone going to be doing that? I believe my current Verizon phone has 3G (EVDO is a 3G network, correct?). It will last a couple of days without needing recharged since I don't use the 3G network (nor is it disabled in anyway, just not actively used). I'd imagine that most places you're going to use the iPhone long term would be the same places you could have wi-fi and 3G usage would still be pretty limited (just like EDGE) to short spans between wi-fi hotspots. The iPhone battery life would also be helped if Apple allowed real applications on the phone (thus not requiring "apps" to be using the data network).

Just seems at times Jobs likes to pull excuses out of his a**. Like the previous lame excuse explaining why no 3rd party apps allowed on the phone because it could bring down the AT&T network (if the AT&T network is that fragile, they shouldn't be running a cellular network in the first place).

Originally Posted by johnnygill

When asked whether Apple would share Wi-Fi iTunes Store revenues with carriers in the same way that carriers share service revenues with Apple, Jobs said, "We're not going to go into it, but if it's using the network you can conceptually imagine that it might make sense."

I thought Apple's Wi-Fi iTunes Store would ONLY be accessible over wi-fi ... So, it sounds to me like the iPhone is NOT using the carriers' network, and therefore there would be no sharing of revenue.

Other thoughts?

Originally Posted by Electric Monk

It's the world's third largest market (and a lot more homogeneous then America or Europe), has a high per capita GDP, and is utterly mobile mad (much much more so then they'd care about the touch).

Ignoring Japan & South Korea because Apple wasn't willing to make minor hardware/software changes to the iPhone is insane.

Originally Posted by vinea

The probability of Apple penetrating the Japanese market in significant number is slim to none.

Originally Posted by ouragan

Steve Jobs is so greedy!!! What he wants to do is illegal as it denies the ownership of iPhone buyers. Apple VP of Legal Affairs should instruct Steve Jobs that:

2) Apple is likely breaking the laws against false advertising;

Originally Posted by TBaggins

Well, Apple has already stated that they're going to do an Asian iPhone launch in '08.

So, given that Japan and Korea are the two major cellphone markets over there (China is coming up, but is still heavily into low-end, cheap phones), and Korea and Japan are similar in their requirements (3G, advanced features)...

...Apple then has two options for said Asian launch:

Option A- Do an 'iPhone 2.0' next year, with 3G and advanced features

Option B- Crash and burn in Asia


Not a tough choice for them.


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Originally Posted by TBaggins



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Originally Posted by TBaggins

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