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Steve Jobs fields questions following Apple's UK iPhone launch - Page 3

post #81 of 114
That's not a personal attack.

It's a joke.

Both of you, stick to the subject matter at hand, which is NOT each other's personal attributes, intelligence, personality, or anything else except the UK launch of the iPhone. Violators will meet with unfortunate accident.
--Johnny
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post #82 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by lundy View Post

That's not a personal attack.

It's a joke.

Both of you, stick to the subject matter at hand, which is NOT each other's personal attributes, intelligence, personality, or anything else except the UK launch of the iPhone. Violators will meet with unfortunate accident.


I agree lundy, it was obviously a joke. It's just that some people can't take one.

But I will play nice.

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post #83 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by studiomusic View Post


Buy a diesel car and you HAVE to use diesel petrol. You're free to buy a car that runs on unleaded if that's what you want.


Crap, Crap and Crap. Nobody tells you which brand of Diesel you must buy, that would be the fairer analogy.
post #84 of 114
Overall id say its been 6 months wasted. We were all expecting a new 3G enabled iphone not the same one in the US. That just wont cut it here. Its like they are saying "whooo look at this futuristic piece of kit, when in reality its so behind technology but for a fancy UI that its almost laughable and on top of that they are charging a lot for it.

Id rather fork out for an N95 8gb or something else to be honest.
post #85 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBaggins View Post

There seems to be some truth to that. Steve appears to be exaggerating the battery life hit that 3G would cause, likely because he doesn't have a 3G iPhone to sell yet. \

Once he does, you can bet he'll have nothing but great things to say about 3G. Steve's a very aggressive salesperson, and can switch rationales on a dime.

.

Sorry, I find the term "salesperson" to have a blunt definition of "person who is full of sh*t." Jobs has made that definition very fitting. Couple that with the extreme arrogance he shows (such as basically insulting NBC during the announcement of the new iPods despite still being in negotiations with them.).

I know it may not seem like it, but I'm interested in the iPhone; my Verizon contract is up in December and I have no issue jumping ship because of how locked-in and crippled every phone is. Trouble is the iPhone ends up looking just as crippled (or perhaps more correctly feature-lacking) at the moment. I'm also not really in an area where I can expect to have easy access to wi-fi while out and about, so I'd be using EDGE much of the time. And there's the constant fear with buying any Apple product that you'll buy something one week and they'll hold a special event the next week announcing your newly purchased item is now obsolete.
post #86 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by murphyweb View Post

Crap, Crap and Crap. Nobody tells you which brand of Diesel you must buy, that would be the fairer analogy.

So please, post a link to the specific consumer protection law in either of the two jurisdictions where the iPhone has been released so far, which would oblige Apple, AT&T, or O2 to furnish a service under which the iPhone could be conviently unlocked.

In the United States, such a law simply doesn't appear to exist. Sure, there are regulations on the books that confirm the individual's liberty to modify their own phones to achieve interoperability. But that's a separate issue from the legality of manufacturers attempting to enforce the SIM lock in the first place.

In the UK, I honestly haven't done enough research to have an opinion. I'd love to hear about it, though.
post #87 of 114
"In a question an answer session"

I think you mean the following instead.

"In a question AND answer session"

The latter implies that 1. people ask questions; and 2. they get answers whilst the former implies either that 1. people ask questions; 2. they get answers; 3. they then question these answers - or someone simply pulls an answer - perhaps from an earlier unrelated press conference - out of a hat and then everyone just sits around all chummy and everything and questions it.
post #88 of 114
Quote:
The Apple boss was seemingly more willing to discuss the company's stance on iPhone unlocks and third-party application development. "This is constant cat-and-mouse game," he said of the ongoing attempts to untether the handset from its intended carriers. "[P]eople are going to try and break in and it's our job to try and stop them."

DIdn't he write something similar about AAC protection and why Apple doesn't want to waste resources on this cat and mouse game? Sounds like this sentence is a prelude to the eventual selling of iPhones without locking people in.
post #89 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by Booga View Post

So your solution to the 3G power consumption problem is to have the user swap out their cellphone battery every 2 hours?

Or purchase a larger, longer life battery like you can for virtually every other smartphone.
post #90 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea

E cash chip, better camera, digital TV, etc doesn't seem like minor modifications and there's not a whole lot of room for those additions.

I see them launching with the same 3G US/European iPhone features but I don't see extra frills for the Japanese/Korean market.

Do you believe that they're going to the engineering effort of an Asian only SKU? Or do you think US centric Apple is going to remain US centric with the iPhone? Hell, it looks like they're doing a Europe launch without 3G.

The probability of Apple penetrating the Japanese market in significant number is slim to none. And you know what they said about Slim. I just don't see a significant amount of effort in this direction and say what you want about Nokia and Motorolla...they really did want IN on Japan and they (with Samsung) are the dominant players worldwide.

If they don't have extra frills for the Asian market they get lumped into 'Other'. Simple as that. If you believe giving up the world's third largest market is smart well, um, ok.

A better camera is almost certain for the Revision B of the iPhone (with video recording, I'd imagine) so that's taken care of.

An e-cash chip is both dirt cheap and tiny. Therefore they could easily accept the slight loss they'd have on them if they sold the same model in Europe and Asia (as both regions use the same UMTS/3G frequency band of 2100MHz). In other words putting an e-cash chip and then just having the Europeans ignore it's existence presents no real problems.

GPS is a natural upgrade (if not for Revision B, than Revision C).

I agree that digital TV is the largest change, but there are chips in production that use all three main standards (Japan, Korea, Europe [Europe also uses some of Korea's standard]) so by Revision C I could easily see it.

The rest is software.

I'd expect Revision B of the iPhone to be about 3G, 16GB of storage, and a better camera (with video recording) andif Jobs can be talked into itthe concept of social networking which Apple has conspicuously failed to grasp so far. One European model (2100MHz UMTS) and one North American model (850/1900MHz UMTS) but otherwise identical.

Revision B could be the Asian launch model (as lacking e-cash/TV/GPS isn't fatal, just a mistake), but if they're smart they'd wait the six months to Revision C.

Revision C in the summer/fall of 2008 I'd expect to add GPS, the aforementioned e-cash chip (in the European/Asian model) and with a good chance of digital TV (again, most likely in the European/Asian model) which may make it a little thicker than the North American model.

Besides that 32GB of storage is possible, though perhaps still unlikely as it depends on flash pricing, and a better camera yet again would be good.

It is possible that tri-band UMTS chipsets are good enough at this point to make only a single model (and accept the slight monetary penalty of an e-cash chip that doesn't work in Europe/NA, and TV that doesn't work in the USA) but that may wait until Revision D.

Revision B is about 3G/refinement, Revision C is about taking the hardware up a notch, and Revision D would be about tri-band 3G/refinement.

That seems a fairly logical progression of hardware capabilities in the mobile phone space.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea

Would Apple be "ignoring" Japan? I dunno...is just having the MacBook ignoring Japan? They choose "Option B" for the Mac lineup already. Apple has crashed and burned in the Japanese laptop market.

Apple has ignored Japan (and the rest of Asia, in similar ways, but they started out strong in Japan) in the following ways:
-No TV tuner. It would simple to bundle one of the several Mac TV tuners with their iMacs, at least, as in Asia the computer is often also the TV
-No subnotebook. An obvious move that would also be popular in North America and Europe.
-Poor commercial advertising. In fact the Japanese "I'm a Mac" ads could be seen as having the opposite effect to what Apple wants.
-The elimination of Macworld Tokyo, the most popular Mac festival in the world at the time.
-A general sense of neglect. Apple Japan has been left to wither on the vine as Apple focused attention on America. Note that Japan used to be Apple's second largest market.
post #91 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by murphyweb View Post

Crap, Crap and Crap. Nobody tells you which brand of Diesel you must buy, that would be the fairer analogy.

Sure, you can buy your diesel from any one of the stations that sell it... just like you can buy your iphone plan from any one of the AT&T stores in the US.
You still can ONLY use diesel. Where's the consumer's choice?
And you have to have a permit to even drive a diesel car! - I smell a lawsuit!!!
post #92 of 114
I find it interesting that no one from a more authoritative position has not come out against jobs claims that 3G uses too much battery power. No 3G chip manufacturer, no engineers, not even other mobile phone manufacturers or service providers. I'm no expert on 3G power consumption but it seems if what he is saying is completely untrue someone would say something.

Quote:
Or purchase a larger, longer life battery like you can for virtually every other smartphone.

That's the whole thing you don't need to purchase another larger longer life battery if the one on your phone is already giving you 15,000 minutes of stand by time and 480 minutes of talk time.
post #93 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

I find it interesting that no one from a more authoritative position has not come out against jobs claims that 3G uses too much battery power. No 3G chip manufacturer, no engineers, not even other mobile phone manufacturers or service providers. I'm no expert on 3G power consumption but it seems if what he is saying is completely untrue someone would say something.


Why would a chip maker or anyone who works for one call Steve Jobs out on anything? Do they really love the idea of Apple never using them as a supplier for anything, 'til the end of time?

And I think its obvious why carriers/service providers wouldn't say anything either. Other phone makers will likely start saying things once they have their 'iPhone clones' hitting the market.

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post #94 of 114
Quote:
Why would a chip maker or anyone who works for one call Steve Jobs out on anything? Do they really love the idea of Apple never using them as a supplier for anything, 'til the end of time?

Jobs does not have the power to literally shush an entire industry. Jobs does not have the entire industry in his pocket. Apple has signed a multi-year deal with a 3G chip maker, no one is at risk of losing his business.

We have all of these tech bloggers and reporters who are free to investigate and find out the truth, many of whom don't care for Jobs or Apple. Everyone was sure that Apple would release a 3G phone for Europe with power consumption being the primary reason they have not. Its difficult to believe if he is not telling the truth absolutely no one is debunking his claim with real facts.
post #95 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by Electric Monk View Post

If they don't have extra frills for the Asian market they get lumped into 'Other'. Simple as that. If you believe giving up the world's third largest market is smart well, um, ok.

Not having looked at Nokia, Samsung and Motorolla's offerings in the asian market I dunno if they offer the listed frills but I would assume that at least Samsung has...

Quote:
A better camera is almost certain for the Revision B of the iPhone (with video recording, I'd imagine) so that's taken care of.

A better camera means what? It's 2 megapixels and I doubt the lens is all that high quality that increasing the pixel count will help all that much. Video recording could be a software thing depending on the data rate from the camera.

Quote:
An e-cash chip is both dirt cheap and tiny. Therefore they could easily accept the slight loss they'd have on them if they sold the same model in Europe and Asia (as both regions use the same UMTS/3G frequency band of 2100MHz). In other words putting an e-cash chip and then just having the Europeans ignore it's existence presents no real problems.

Except it one more thing. Not saying they wont do it but eh. There's lots of little things that could be added...like...

Quote:
GPS is a natural upgrade (if not for Revision B, than Revision C).

Quote:
I agree that digital TV is the largest change, but there are chips in production that use all three main standards (Japan, Korea, Europe [Europe also uses some of Korea's standard]) so by Revision C I could easily see it.

This one I don't see even if it is on some phones. The flip up screen part on the N92 seems as big as the iPhone much less the rest of the handset.

Quote:
Apple has ignored Japan (and the rest of Asia, in similar ways, but they started out strong in Japan) in the following ways:

The push to iTunes vs TV tuners/DVR/etc hampers the iMac as a TV replacement. That and you'd need whatever the Japanese equivalent of a cable card.

Here in the US even a 24" iMac would be too small for a primary TV replacement. At least given the TVs I see at friends houses.
post #96 of 114
According to the Korean Times KTF in South Korea is lobbying Apple for the iPhone.

``We have been trying to bring the iPhone here, but we have to wait,'' Cho told The Korea Times after attending the iMobicon 2007 conference held at the COEX in Seoul.

The market is almost saturated. And it is driven by a near oligopoly of three telecom companies _ SK Telecom, KTF and LG Telecom _ while handset makers such as Samsung Electronics and LG Electronics are being treated as mere hardware subcontractors. But Apple has reversed the master-and-servant relationship between phone makers and network operators by utilizing its mighty brand power and unique software services such as the iTunes music store.

The telecom firms, however, have been put under growing pressure to change. Complaints have grown among tech-savvy consumers who are bored with the limited handset choices in Korea; even Nokia, the world's largest handset maker, is not selling any of its products in the country.

A KTF official said that the iPhone to be sold in Korea will be built on the new WCDMA platform. The iPhone was originally built for the GSM network which is dominant in the United States and Europe. Adopting it to the CDMA or WCDMA platforms has been considered easily achievable.

WCDMA, often dubbed as a third-generation (3G) technology, is capable of communicating with both GSM and CDMA phones. KTF launched the world's first nationwide WCDMA service in Korea in March, and has drawn more than 1.5 million users so far.
post #97 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Jobs does not have the power to literally shush an entire industry. Jobs does not have the entire industry in his pocket. Apple has signed a multi-year deal with a 3G chip maker, no one is at risk of loosing his business.

You don't seem to be really into business. Apple has a market cap in excess of $100 billion now, they're becoming a big deal. Almost no one who could possibly sell to them is gonna badmouth Jobs, regardless of current contracts, because they know Steve will freeze them out forever... even long after the current contracts come up for renewal.

Just ask Andy Grove. He was a jerk to Jobs in a meeting back in the late '70s or early '80s (forget which), and from then on, Intel was a piece of s*** as far as Jobs was concerned. It's only been recently, decades later, that fences have been mended.

Do you honestly think anyone is gonna call out Bill Gates, or one of the Google founders, if they don't absolutely have to? Steve is almost at that level now.

Quote:
We have all of these tech bloggers and reporters who are free to investigate and find out the truth, many of whom don't care for Jobs or Apple. Everyone was sure that Apple would release a 3G phone for Europe with power consumption being the primary reason they have not. Its difficult to believe if he is not telling the truth absolutely no one is debunking his claim with real facts.

Actually, Electric Monk had posts about this back around the US iPhone launch that had some fairly concrete info that the 3G battery hit was not that great. And I can tell you for a fact that turning off 3G on my EVDO 3G phone makes very little difference in talk time.

Jobs specific claim of 8 hours talk time being reduced to 2-3 hrs is a very recent one. The only ppl likely to question it publicly are tech journalists and bloggers/forum posters. Forum posters already have questioned it. Tech journalists would likely have to put together a pretty decent study if they want to call out Jobs (a big 'if', since then Apple advertising money for their site goes bye-bye), which would take a bit of time. After all, Jobs only said this yesterday.

Steve's a salesman, first and foremost, Teno. Salesmen... say things. Y'know, like how Intel processors totally suck compared to the G4/G5, or how vertical optical drives suck performance-wise. Yet Apple uses both of those things now.

3G won't be any different.


Edit- Oh, and 'everyone' was not predicting 3G for the Euro launch. I've been saying for a long time it'd be either for the Euro launch or the Asian launch. It's prolly fairer to say that most ppl were 'hoping' there'd be 3G for the Euro launch.

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post #98 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

According to the Korean Times KTF in South Korea is lobbying Apple for the iPhone.

``We have been trying to bring the iPhone here, but we have to wait,'' Cho told The Korea Times after attending the iMobicon 2007 conference held at the COEX in Seoul.

The market is almost saturated. And it is driven by a near oligopoly of three telecom companies _ SK Telecom, KTF and LG Telecom _ while handset makers such as Samsung Electronics and LG Electronics are being treated as mere hardware subcontractors. But Apple has reversed the master-and-servant relationship between phone makers and network operators by utilizing its mighty brand power and unique software services such as the iTunes music store.

The telecom firms, however, have been put under growing pressure to change. Complaints have grown among tech-savvy consumers who are bored with the limited handset choices in Korea; even Nokia, the world's largest handset maker, is not selling any of its products in the country.

A KTF official said that the iPhone to be sold in Korea will be built on the new WCDMA platform. The iPhone was originally built for the GSM network which is dominant in the United States and Europe. Adopting it to the CDMA or WCDMA platforms has been considered easily achievable.

WCDMA, often dubbed as a third-generation (3G) technology, is capable of communicating with both GSM and CDMA phones. KTF launched the world's first nationwide WCDMA service in Korea in March, and has drawn more than 1.5 million users so far.


Nice info, Teno. Further confirmation that the Asian launch iPhone is going to be 3G, as several ppl been saying for months now on AI.

The one thing I'd correct the article on is the 'GSM networks are dominant in the US' thing. Actually, GSM is only the second most popular wireless technology here... CDMA has the largest marketshare in the US.

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post #99 of 114
Quote:
Almost no one who could possibly sell to them is gonna badmouth Jobs, regardless of current contracts, because they know Steve will freeze them out forever... even long after the current contracts come up for renewal.

Apple nor Steve Jobs do not rule the telecom industry. I seriously doubt everyone in the industry is afraid to contradict him.

Quote:
Do you honestly think anyone is gonna call out Bill Gates

Yes people criticize Microsoft all the time. Right now you can find dozens of articles and blogs talking about how terrible Vista is.

Quote:
Actually, Electric Monk had posts about this back around the US iPhone launch that had some fairly concrete info that the 3G battery hit was not that great. And I can tell you for a fact that turning off 3G on my EVDO 3G phone makes very little difference in talk time.

This is why one of my caveats was an authoritative source. No disrespect to Electric Monk. But preferably someone who uses their real name, someone who works in the telecomm industry, or someone of journalistic repute who has researched 3G power consumption.

Anecdotal accounts of 3G use on one phone does little to disprove why the iPhone does not use 3G.

Quote:
Y'know, like how Intel processors totally suck compared to the G4/G5, or how vertical optical drives suck performance-wise. Yet Apple uses both of those things now.

I agree Jobs can put an extra layer of hyperbole on what he says. What he said about Intel and PowerPC was true at the time. The Pentium platform had hit a dead end and was going nowhere. PowerPC in many ways is architecturally superior to x86.

IBM is not as motivated to develop PowerPC as Intel is in developing x86. Intel Core is an entirely new chip architecture from Pentium. So Apple went with what was going to be most competitive.

Things don't stay the same, something may not be as good at one time and becomes better years later. It would be foolish for Apple to not change and adapt because Jobs wants to stand by a statement he made years ago.
post #100 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by lfmorrison View Post

So please, post a link to the specific consumer protection law in either of the two jurisdictions where the iPhone has been released so far, which would oblige Apple, AT&T, or O2 to furnish a service under which the iPhone could be conviently unlocked.

In the United States, such a law simply doesn't appear to exist. Sure, there are regulations on the books that confirm the individual's liberty to modify their own phones to achieve interoperability. But that's a separate issue from the legality of manufacturers attempting to enforce the SIM lock in the first place.

In the UK, I honestly haven't done enough research to have an opinion. I'd love to hear about it, though.

In the UK by Law all networks have to unlock a phone if requested by the consumer, they are allowed to charge a fee for this service but they must comply, this is the same accross most European countries, expect Belgium where it is actualy illegal to sell a phone that is locked in the first place.

With Steve Jobs saying that they will fight the unlockers i am not sure where that puts him legally but i doubt they have any legal ground at all.

It is not usually a problem in the UK as phones are subsidised anyway, so you are obliged to stay in your contract till the end as you are paying off your phone. Most people get a new phone when their contract expires anyway. Apple are mad for not going down that route, o2 are mad for agreeing.
post #101 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Apple nor Steve Jobs do not rule the telecom industry. I seriously doubt everyone in the industry is afraid to contradict him.

If you're in the telecoms industry, and you hope to someday sell to or partner with Steve, you don't call him out. You DON'T punk potential customers or partners. What is so very hard to grasp about that? \


Quote:
Yes people criticize Microsoft all the time.

Not people who wish to sell to or partner with Microsoft. Steve's about the only one who gets away with it, but he's big.


Quote:
Anecdotal accounts of 3G use on one phone does little to disprove why the iPhone does not use 3G.

Frankly, I'll take anecdotal evidence from a knowledgeable source over Steve's salemanship any day of the week. No offense to Steve, but he does have a financial interest in stretching the truth. Electric Monk and guys like him don't appear to. And again, Steve made his comment yesterday, so if you really want non-anecdotal evidence, just wait.


Quote:
I agree Jobs can put an extra layer of hyperbole on what he says.

That's the understatement of the year, but I'm glad you get that part of it.


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post #102 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

The push to iTunes vs TV tuners/DVR/etc hampers the iMac as a TV replacement. That and you'd need whatever the Japanese equivalent of a cable card.

Here in the US even a 24" iMac would be too small for a primary TV replacement. At least given the TVs I see at friends houses.

Small apartments/condominiums in big cities are a perfect place for the iMac as TV model. When you only have 600 square feet to work with multifunction devices are almost a necessity. Back when I worked in retail the largest iMac was 20" and I recall a number of customers who watched movies on theirs because they didn't own a TV.

One of the most significant things Steve Jobs did when he returned to Apple was reduce the number of product lines and the number of different products within those lines. Making something special just for Japan, something Apple used to do all the time, just isn't his style. As Apple looks to the future they will have to learn to relax that thinking and learn how to reintroduce variety without incurring large costs. If they do it successfully the future is bright indeed.
post #103 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bregalad View Post

One of the most significant things Steve Jobs did when he returned to Apple was reduce the number of product lines and the number of different products within those lines. Making something special just for Japan, something Apple used to do all the time, just isn't his style. As Apple looks to the future they will have to learn to relax that thinking and learn how to reintroduce variety without incurring large costs. If they do it successfully the future is bright indeed.


Absolutely. Check out my sig.

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post #104 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

This is why one of my caveats was an authoritative source. No disrespect to Electric Monk. But preferably someone who uses their real name, someone who works in the telecomm industry, or someone of journalistic repute who has researched 3G power consumption.

I used Softbank's numbers for talk time and standby time from a randomly selected number of their GSM/UMTS phones. Obviously they lie about talk time/standby time (as everybody does), but there's no reason to believe they'd lie differently for GSM and UMTS.

If you want to do it yourself go to the Softbank 3G phone page, and do some simple math for all the phones. I came up with 30% as the worst possible difference, but some were around 10%.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

A KTF official said that the iPhone to be sold in Korea will be built on the new WCDMA platform. The iPhone was originally built for the GSM network which is dominant in the United States and Europe. Adopting it to the CDMA or WCDMA platforms has been considered easily achievable.

WCDMA, often dubbed as a third-generation (3G) technology, is capable of communicating with both GSM and CDMA phones. KTF launched the world's first nationwide WCDMA service in Korea in March, and has drawn more than 1.5 million users so far.

That's some quality tech reporting as WCMDA (aka UMTS) is not compatible with anythingit requires a GSM chip for backward compatibility (though, technically, you could also use a CDMA chip for backward compatibility if you felt like it).

What the reporter means is that South Korea used CDMA to build their phone networks. They were using EV-DO as their 3G standard but the government mandated UMTS (or WCDMA) so their phones could roam in Europe.

So any 2100MHz UMTS model of iPhone (as would also be needed for Japan, and which would help in Europe) would also work in South Korea.
post #105 of 114
Quote:
I used Softbank's numbers for talk time and standby time from a randomly selected number of their GSM/UMTS phones. Obviously they lie about talk time/standby time (as everybody does), but there's no reason to believe they'd lie differently for GSM and UMTS.

I'm not trying to dispute your findings. I admit I don't know. My point more is if Jobs is wrong, I don't believe everyone would allow him to get away with being wrong on something so prominent in tech news today.

Quote:
If you're in the telecoms industry, and you hope to someday sell to or partner with Steve, you don't call him out.

There are a few select companies who would be looking to work with Apple on the iPhone. The entire industry is much larger than Apple, Jobs, or the iPhone.

Quote:
Not people who wish to sell to or partner with Microsoft.

MS more sells products than it partners and buys products from others.

Quote:
Frankly, I'll take anecdotal evidence from a knowledgeable source over Steve's salemanship any day of the week.

Is that because Jobs is so often wrong or because you defend your opinion to the point of stubbornness?
post #106 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

I'm not trying to dispute your findings. I admit I don't know. My point more is if Jobs is wrong, I don't believe everyone would allow him to get away with being wrong on something so prominent in tech news today.

I wish I shared your youthful naivete. I honestly do.

Also consider that Jobs' comment was one sentence out of an hour-long event. People weren't really fixated on that so much as the basic details, such as, "Hey, the iPhone's launching in Europe. Who's the partner? Who's gonna be the partner in Germany and France? How much is the iPhone gonna cost? What will the plans be like?", etc. etc.


Quote:
There are a few select companies who would be looking to work with Apple on the iPhone. The entire industry is much larger than Apple, Jobs, or the iPhone.

Even if you're a t-com company that has no intention of working directly with Apple, it's a web. Someone you partner with sells to someone who partners with someone who works with or sells to Apple. So... why do you rock the boat again? What does it get you?

There's a saying in business, "No good can come of this."


Quote:
MS more sells products than it partners and buys products from others.

MS has relationships with a great many companies, period. And I said before, it's a web.


Quote:
Is that because Jobs is so often wrong or because you defend your opinion to the point of stubbornness?

I think you and I are equally stubborn, actually.

And it's because Jobs is a salesman, and salesmen often stretch the truth. This is news to you?

.
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post #107 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by Electric Monk View Post

That's some quality tech reporting as WCMDA (aka UMTS) is not compatible with anything—it requires a GSM chip for backward compatibility (though, technically, you could also use a CDMA chip for backward compatibility if you felt like it).


Nice catch. I initially furrowed my brow at that passage, but then I thought, "Well, WCDMA has a similar air interface to CDMA. It's Korea. Maybe they worked something special out."

I guess it's a bit naive for me to assume that tech journalists usually know what they're reporting on. I only caught the 'GSM is dominant in the US' flub. \

.
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post #108 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bregalad View Post

Small apartments/condominiums in big cities are a perfect place for the iMac as TV model. When you only have 600 square feet to work with multifunction devices are almost a necessity. Back when I worked in retail the largest iMac was 20" and I recall a number of customers who watched movies on theirs because they didn't own a TV.

Even the folks I know in small apartments or just a room in a house have bigger TVs than 24". And they have a computer. These days the footprint of a LCD or Plasma is pretty small that its a lesser issue.

Of course they are also young, with disposable income and typically male or live with a boyfriend.

Quote:
One of the most significant things Steve Jobs did when he returned to Apple was reduce the number of product lines and the number of different products within those lines. Making something special just for Japan, something Apple used to do all the time, just isn't his style. As Apple looks to the future they will have to learn to relax that thinking and learn how to reintroduce variety without incurring large costs. If they do it successfully the future is bright indeed.

What? Their future isn't bright?

As Apple looks to the future they should...I dunno keep doing whatever the heck Jobs wants since it seems to be working well. Arguably you cannot reintroduce variety without "large" cost depending on what you feel large is. The opportunity cost of working on new Mac variant vs working on new products like the iPhone is large.

Is it always either or? No...but look at Leopard. Delayed for the iPhone.

That sucks for those of us who would like a ultraportable, tower or what have you but you know, Vista will get better and XP wasn't half bad. There are many alternatives to Apple when it comes down to it.

V
post #109 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBaggins View Post

I wish I shared your youthful naivete. I honestly do.

...

Even if you're a t-com company that has no intention of working directly with Apple, it's a web. Someone you partner with sells to someone who partners with someone who works with or sells to Apple. So... why do you rock the boat again? What does it get you?

There's a saying in business, "No good can come of this."

I watched the CEO of a telecom equipment company tell Verizon and other baby bells execs that they were dinosaurs and idiots. And then expected sales.

So don't think that if Jobs was clearly wrong that someone (like maybe a competitor who couldn't care less) wouldn't call him on it. Like why would Nokia or Motorolla care? They say disparaging things about the iPhone anyway. It's a competitor's product.

Jobs says nasty things about MS all the time but maintains a business relationship with them. Gates and Ballmer have been unkind in return from time to time. There are many CEOs that are "outspoken" and hold a grudge to boot.

Quote:
And it's because Jobs is a salesman, and salesmen often stretch the truth. This is news to you?

Jobs is more than a salesman. He's actually one of the few visionaries in the industry that you don't roll your eyes when you call him that. Does he stretch or spin the truth? Sure. He's also a CEO.

V
post #110 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

I watched the CEO of a telecom equipment company tell Verizon and other baby bells execs that they were dinosaurs and idiots. And then expected sales.

Yeah... how'd that work out for him?


Quote:
So don't think that if Jobs was clearly wrong that someone (like maybe a competitor who couldn't care less) wouldn't call him on it. Like why would Nokia or Motorolla care? They say disparaging things about the iPhone anyway. It's a competitor's product.

There's no real point in Nokia and Motorola saying anything until they have a touchscreen 3G iPhone clone ready to go. Then they can make the snarky comments about how Apple whines that it can't do 3G, but "Nokia (Motorola, whoever) delivers." Maybe some nice TV spots accompanying, showing the iPhone riding on a snail's back.

If you say something without having an alternative to offer, you just look petty and worried.


Quote:
Jobs says nasty things about MS all the time but maintains a business relationship with them. Gates and Ballmer have been unkind in return from time to time. There are many CEOs that are "outspoken" and hold a grudge to boot.

Yeah, I touched on that already. Steve trashtalks MS, but he's one of the few big enough to get away with it. You don't see many others with biz relationships with MS doing the same thing.


Quote:
Jobs is more than a salesman. He's actually one of the few visionaries in the industry that you don't roll your eyes when you call him that. Does he stretch or spin the truth? Sure. He's also a CEO.

Wow. We actually agree on something.

.
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post #111 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBaggins View Post

Yeah... how'd that work out for him?

Not so hot but it didn't keep him from doing it...
post #112 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

According to the Korean Times KTF in South Korea is lobbying Apple for the iPhone.

But Apple has reversed the master-and-servant relationship between phone makers and network operators

Instead we've traded it for a master, master and servant relationship between phone makers, network operators and the consumers they are supposed to serve.
post #113 of 114
I wonder if North Korea know about the iphone. Imagine wanting it so bad there but you can thave it haha
post #114 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by bavlondon2 View Post

I wonder if North Korea know about the iphone. Imagine wanting it so bad there but you can thave it haha


I think they're more concerned with wanting things like, well... food.


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