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Apple and T-Mobile to sell iPhone in Germany

post #1 of 45
Thread Starter 
From Apple's site: the winner is T-Mobile.

http://www.apple.com/de/iphone/

http://www.apple.com/hotnews/

 

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post #2 of 45
Wow, and here I thought it was just a UK roll-out.

This bodes well for the iPhone. I suspect that Apple is purposefully phasing the roll-out in order to gain experience and ramp up production/support at a manageable pace. By releasing the iPhone in even more countries, it means that Apple is already comfortable in managing their current iPhone business.

Hell, they've made it look downright easy to jump into an already saturated mobile market.
post #3 of 45
On the heels of its UK announcement with O2, Apple said Wednesday that it is partnering with T-Mobile, the leading network operator in Germany, to offer the iPhone when it makes its debut in Germany on November 9.

"We're thrilled to be partnering with T-Mobile to bring the iPhone to Germany,"Â*said Apple chief executive Steve Jobs. "Customer response to iPhone in the US has been incredible, and we can't wait to introduce T-Mobile customers to theÂ*most revolutionary mobile device on the planet."

iPhone customers in Germany will be treated to the same iPhone activation experience as US customers, where they can use Apple's iTunes software to get the device up and running on T-Mobile's network from the comfort and privacy of their own home or office, rather than wait on long lines at the store.

In addition, Germany customers will also receive all the revolutionary features that made iPhone so popular in the US, including access to Apple's recently launched iTunes Wi-Fi Music Store.

"We are convinced that we can get our customers excited about experiencing the mobile internet with the iPhone," saidÂ* Hamid Akhavan, CEO, T-Mobile International. "I am proud that Apple and T-Mobile have become partners. The best mobile device currently on the market will soon be operating on the best network in the country."Â*

The T-Mobile network will also support iPhoneÂs unique Visual Voicemail feature, which enables users to immediately randomly access those messages that interest them most.

By the end of 2007, T-Mobile will be the only network operator in Germany to offer EDGE throughout its entire GSM network, Apple said. With 20,000 HotSpots worldwide, T-Mobile is also the biggest Wi-Fi provider in the world. Of those HotSpots, 8,600 are in Germany, where HotSpot users can achieve download speeds of up to 11 megabytes per second.Â*

Pricing & Availability

iPhoneÂ*is scheduled to goÂ*on sale on November 9 and will be sold in Germany through Telekom Shops of Deutsche Telekom and the T-Mobile web shop.Â*iPhone requires a new 2-year T-Mobile tariff and will be available in an 8GB model forÂ*Â399 including V.A.T. and will work with either a PC or Mac.
post #4 of 45
I was pretty sure the rumour was that Apple was shooting for UK/Germany/France (France tomorrow?) and possibly Spain (O2 = Spain's Telefonica), with the rest of Europe following as soon as possible.

Anyway, yes, more countries is good. Now how about Canada? (Bloody Rogers, maybe the most evil telecom in the world.)
post #5 of 45
If they continue like that it'll take them 10 years to have all of Europe covered and then there's Asia.
post #6 of 45
It's puzzling that they didn't use T-Mobile in the UK though. Unlike O2, T-mobile already had a partly enabled EDGE network and unlimited data plans. They also have their own hotspots.
post #7 of 45
Well, I don't read German, but is there a reason why this one doesn't say that it's "exclusive"?

I personally think these exclusive carrier deals are going to go over like a lead balloon in the EU (if they're even legal there), but we'll see. And what do these carrier deals mean for people roaming between different EU nations?
post #8 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by aegisdesign View Post

It's puzzling that they didn't use T-Mobile in the UK though. Unlike O2, T-mobile already had a partly enabled EDGE network and unlimited data plans. They also have their own hotspots.

They should have just went with T-Mobile all over the place. Like it said they have the most HotSpots and especially with T-Mobile testing their WiFi phones that make internet calls when you are home. I think the iPhone would have been the perfect device to harness that technology. Its too bad because I really think they would have made a better partnership and gave T-Mobile what it needed to bust open.


Plus I'm a loyal US T-Mobile customer and the thought of switching to att for 2 years bothers the hell out of me.
-Adam
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post #9 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmjoe View Post

I personally think these exclusive carrier deals are going to go over like a lead balloon in the EU (if they're even legal there), but we'll see. And what do these carrier deals mean for people roaming between different EU nations?

Yes, I was thinking that this morning too. I'd be surprised if there's not some consumer body in one of the countries not complain it's locked to one carrier per country.

Roaming-wise, even if you're on t-mobile UK and roam in t-mobile DE's network you'll pick up international roaming charges. These however are limited by law across the whole of the EU to 0.49 for making calls and 0.24 for receiving calls (excluding VAT).

If you're in your own country then usually you don't pay for incoming.
post #10 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by aegisdesign View Post

It's puzzling that they didn't use T-Mobile in the UK though. Unlike O2, T-mobile already had a partly enabled EDGE network and unlimited data plans. They also have their own hotspots.

I think Apple is trying to avoid the "monopoly" stigma by working with different partners in different countries.

Had Apple used tMobile(german) for all of Europe, I can guarantee you the other carriers would have pushed for an antitrust investigation.

So in Germany they will you a german carrier, in the UK they will use a british carrier and in France they will use a french carrier...keep the locals happy.
post #11 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by afalkner View Post

They should have just went with T-Mobile all over the place.

Problem is : No T-Mobile in France, Spain, Italy etc etc

T-Mobile's footprint is substantially smaller then -say- Vodafone. I guess Apple is hedging their bets as well. With the major three on board they can have a pan european footprint -and- to some extend still try to play them against each other (Spain as Telefonica and Orange for instance)
post #12 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Electric Monk View Post

I was pretty sure the rumour was that Apple was shooting for UK/Germany/France (France tomorrow?) and possibly Spain (O2 = Spain's Telefonica), with the rest of Europe following as soon as possible.

Anyway, yes, more countries is good. Now how about Canada? (Bloody Rogers, maybe the most evil telecom in the world.)

The whole of Europe will be impossible as some countries have laws that strictly forbid ANY locking to a particular carrier. Without an exclusive offer with a carrier in these countries Apple will not garnish any revenue from monthly dues.

Rogers with an unlimited data plan at a decent price? Yeah, I don't think the iPhone will be in Canada anytime soon.

PS: The article was vague. Are German iPhone users being allowed free access to the 8.600 T-Mobile HotSpots?
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post #13 of 45
The most important thing was not mentioned. No word about tariffs.
post #14 of 45
so will you be able to buy an iPhone here in the US and activate it with a T-Mobile SIM from the US or will you have to buy one in Germany and have it shipped here activate it with a German T-Mobile SIM and then change it out ??
post #15 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by pate View Post

The most important thing was not mentioned. No word about tariffs.

Check the last line of the article: "...iPhone requires a new 2-year T-Mobile tariff..."
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post #16 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

The whole of Europe will be impossible as some countries have laws that strictly forbid ANY locking to a particular carrier. Without an exclusive offer with a carrier in these countries Apple will not garnish any revenue from monthly dues.

I would imagine they're making a profit from the sale of the handset alone without the profit sharing from the carrier.
post #17 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

The whole of Europe will be impossible as some countries have laws that strictly forbid ANY locking to a particular carrier. Without an exclusive offer with a carrier in these countries Apple will not garnish any revenue from monthly dues.

Ever considered the other alternative : No iPhone in that country.

I am sure that here in Belgium we will see it not before 2010, as subsidies AND locking AND combined offers are illegal.

Offering the phone in Belgium would mean free exports to other countries via eBay. Mind you if that should happen - I stand to make a few buck

Time to get cracking on the eBay score
post #18 of 45
Since T-Mobile Germany is the provider, would iPhones bought in Germany that are subsequently unlocked be able to make use of the Visual Voicemail feature on T-Mobile USA's network, I wonder?
post #19 of 45
It's like Apple is playing a good game of Risk...
post #20 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by redbox View Post

Since T-Mobile Germany is the provider, would iPhones bought in Germany that are subsequently unlocked be able to make use of the Visual Voicemail feature on T-Mobile USA's network, I wonder?

Visual Voicemail works like an email server but stores voice messages. There would be no reason for T-Mobile in the US to have these voice servers installed. So my speculative answer is no.
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post #21 of 45
Why doesn't Apple just flood Europe and Great Britain with unlocked iPhones? Why does Europe even want iPhones if the cellphones they already have are much better overall and cost way less? Are most cellphones sold in Europe unlocked? Makes no sense at all. Why does Apple need kickback from carriers? They should just sell iPhones like iPods. They'd still make money.

You people here seem to see things so clearly that Apple is taking a big risk and maybe nobody will buy their iPhones. Yet Apple should have a lot of statistics and such to figure whether the iPhone will be a success or not overseas. Some analysts agree Apple will sell millions iPhones overseas, yet others think they won't sell many at all. How can people that do research be so far off target.

I got a big laugh that Apple was going to boost iPhone production by a fairly huge amount and I guess that was already figured into the stock price. So Apple is already boosting production for Europe and doesn't even know if people will buy it. What a puzzle.
post #22 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Constable Odo View Post

[1]Why doesn't Apple just flood Europe and Great Britain with unlocked iPhones?
[2]Why does Europe even want iPhones if the cellphones they already have are much better overall and cost way less?
[3]Are most cellphones sold in Europe unlocked?
[4]Makes no sense at all.
[5]Why does Apple need kickback from carriers?
[6]They should just sell iPhones like iPods.
[7]How can people that do research be so far off target.

[1] Because they want money from the carriers too.
[2] "better" is subjective and cost is based on needs and wants. Apple is hoping the desire for the iconic device coupled with good user experience will sell their device.
[3] I can't answer that, but can say that most can be unlocked easily. A better question is whether most cellphones are sold under contract.
[4] Seems to make perfect sense to Apple. If we don't like what they're selling then we don't need to buy.
[5] Monthly subscriptions dues is where the real money is at. In order to get this Apple has to offer the customer and carrier something in return. The carrier gets exclusive rights and therefore new customers and the customer gets frequently updated devices and services that are long overdue that expand the user experience.
[6] They do. Walk in to an Apple Store and you buy an iPhone just like any other item. What they don't let you do is use it like an iPod. But it's a phone so how could they?
[7] Because it's all speculative. Imagine a 3-dimensional math problem where the question had so many variables that depending on your point of view that you couldn't really look at every aspect of the model so you have to estimate and guess. Or someone with money is writing them paychecks to say certain things about Apple to scare investors.
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post #23 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by afalkner View Post

Plus I'm a loyal US T-Mobile customer and the thought of switching to att for 2 years bothers the hell out of me.


You're not the only one. ATT is pretty sucky in most places out here in California.

Their CS is fairly tragic as well. \

.
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post #24 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Constable Odo View Post

Why doesn't Apple just flood Europe and Great Britain with unlocked iPhones? Why does Europe even want iPhones if the cellphones they already have are much better overall and cost way less?

Excuse me do you actually know what you are talking about.
I admit that I don't that much. But from the sound and like you write you sound non European.
I live in Germany. And as far as I can see we don't have that much better cell phones over here.
It used to be true a couple of years ago, but now I believe the same cell phones are available everywhere.

Could you tell me a single cell phone that is available over here, that is better thanthe iPhone and NOT available in the US?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buck View Post

If they continue like that it'll take them 10 years to have all of Europe covered and then there's Asia.

How many countries do you think there are in Europe?
You know the EU only has 25 members, and with the German roll out, they also rolled out n the NEtherlands and Austria.



Its seems to me that the German deal might be the best deal yet though.
Without VAT the iPhone cost in Germany 481$ US.

but the contract only seems to require a 2 year contract with T-Mobile.
It does not state specific contracts this far.

So for me as a student that means I should be able to get a 7 EUR contract with 50 inclusive minutes to any network.
And thats pritty much all I need.
I just need to turn off Edge and I am fine :-)

Also something interesting might be if this iPhone might be unlocked, probaly not, but T-Mobile usually seels all their phones unlocked.

Well I hope more speicifcs will show up on the German T-Mobile website soon.
t-mobile.de

So far it doesn't state anythign at all about contractt. The German macworld wrote somethign about that T-Mobile users could use the t-hotspots but it doesn't say if that would be free.
And I would assume no, its not.
post #25 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorsten View Post

Excuse me do you actually know what you are talking about.
I admit that I don't that much. But from the sound and like you write you sound non European.
I live in Germany. And as far as I can see we don't have that much better cell phones over here.
It used to be true a couple of years ago, but now I believe the same cell phones are available everywhere.

Could you tell me a single cell phone that is available over here, that is better thanthe iPhone and NOT available in the US?

At this point Europe's main advantage exists in the much superior UMTS (aka 3G) coverage.

However because most mobile phones use 2100MHz UMTS (not usable in North America), and, as with Sony Ericsson, often use tri-band instead of quad band GSM chips this means they require a specific North American model. Usually a delay of either forever, or a few months.

Japan/South Korea, on the other hand, continue to be well ahead of everybody in mobile hardware & software technology (though their software user interface is as garbage, or worse, as everybody else'sexcepting Apple, of course).
post #26 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Electric Monk View Post

At this point Europe's main advantage exists in the much superior UMTS (aka 3G) coverage.

Really? Then: (i) How come less than 10% of phone customers in Europe have 3G contracts? Too expensive? Not what it's cracked up to be? "Nice to have" but not "must have?" Doesn't travel well? (ii) To everyone talking up 3G as though it is the holy grail: What exactly do you use it for? If your answer is "primary internet device" (and if not, I have no idea why you might want 3G) would you please tell me: (iii) what is your monthly bill?

Unless you can provide some answers, please stop regaling us with hypothetical stories about how "superior" 3G is.
post #27 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Electric Monk View Post

Japan/South Korea, on the other hand, continue to be well ahead of everybody in mobile hardware & software technology (though their software user interface is as garbage, or worse, as everybody else'sexcepting Apple, of course).

post #28 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by afalkner View Post

Plus I'm a loyal US T-Mobile customer and the thought of switching to att for 2 years bothers the hell out of me.

Same here. WTF is going on with Apple? The lock on to crapfest at&t in the US, then get cozy with T-mo in Germany? As Herr Spock would say, "highly illogical".

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post #29 of 45
As we are the country in the middle of UK an Germany I would've thought we would be next, however, I believe we have to wait for a year. Our country doesn't seem to have no EDGE network at all. The last EDGE network was from Telfort (formally known as O2) and was brought down in June 2007 in favour of UMTS (3G).
post #30 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Same here. WTF is going on with Apple? The lock on to crapfest at&t in the US, then get cozy with T-mo in Germany? As Herr Spock would say, "highly illogical".

I certainly can't confirm this, but most companies that span multiple countries are managed by completely separate groups. Perhaps T-Mobile in the US wasn't interested with the iPhone deal at the time or perhaps after they've witnessed the results with AT&T in the US now want in. Or perhaps Apple just went with the highest bidder. There are too many factors to determine here.

I would have preferred T-Mobile, myself, and would enjoyed having free unlimited HotSpot access with my iPhone. I'm speculating that Apple would have made this happen for iPhone customers in the US. One can dream.
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post #31 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I certainly can't confirm this, but most companies that span multiple countries are managed by completely separate groups. Perhaps T-Mobile in the US wasn't interested with the iPhone deal at the time or perhaps after they've witnessed the results with AT&T in the US now want in. Or perhaps Apple just went with the highest bidder. There are too many factors to determine here.

I would have preferred T-Mobile, myself, and would enjoyed having free unlimited HotSpot access with my iPhone. I'm speculating that Apple would have made this happen for iPhone customers in the US. One can dream.


Isn't ATT in the U.S: a better carrier than T-Mobile.
Isn't ATT coverage much broader?

The choice for T-Mobile in Germany is quite obvious, T-Mobile has the widest andbest coverage in Germany, and have the most distribution points.
The only one who might be able to keep up are Vodafone, but I believe between those 2 Apple chose T-Mobile since T-Mobile probably offered, some better deal.
Also Vodafone likes to do a lot of branding so the iPhone is not really for them.
I believe also at the moment T-Mobile has slightly more subsribers than Vodfone, they offer the Wifi Hotspots and they are required by law to give the widest and best coverage all over Germany.
or the consumers T-mobile is definitely the best choice.
The only downside of T-Mobile compared to other providers is the fact that they don't offer any kind of flatrates yet, I guess that will come with the iPhone.
post #32 of 45
most important thing was not mentioned. how much it will cost

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Check the last line of the article: "...iPhone requires a new 2-year T-Mobile tariff..."

Well, yes. But no word on how much you wil have to pay for that 2-year-contract, what it includes etc.
post #33 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by pate View Post

most important thing was not mentioned. how much it will cost



Well, yes. But no word on how much you wil have to pay for that 2-year-contract, what it includes etc.

Well I just hope it will be any 2 year contract which already exist not specific once like everywhere else.
That would be sooooo cooool
Thank T-Mobile for beeing nice
post #34 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Really? Then: (i) How come less than 10% of phone customers in Europe have 3G contracts? Too expensive? Not what it's cracked up to be? "Nice to have" but not "must have?" Doesn't travel well? (ii) To everyone talking up 3G as though it is the holy grail: What exactly do you use it for? If your answer is "primary internet device" (and if not, I have no idea why you might want 3G) would you please tell me: (iii) what is your monthly bill?

Unless you can provide some answers, please stop regaling us with hypothetical stories about how "superior" 3G is.

There's no such thing as a 3G contract. There's handsets capable of using 3G services but it's the same price contract if you had a 2G phone.

Of course, people with just a need to text, phone and send each other MMS photos don't need 3G.

Smartphone users on the other hand with web access and email would benefit highly from 3G as the alternative is bog standard GPRS in most of Europe.
post #35 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by aegisdesign View Post

There's no such thing as a 3G contract. There's handsets capable of using 3G services but it's the same price contract if you had a 2G phone.

Of course, people with just a need to text, phone and send each other MMS photos don't need 3G.

Smartphone users on the other hand with web access and email would benefit highly from 3G as the alternative is bog standard GPRS in most of Europe.

OK.... rephrase that as "3G users" or "3G phones sold" of whatever is appropriate. According to this source (and I've seen a couple of others that show worse numbers), as of early 2006, less than 8% of the users "subscribe to 3G services" in the UK and only about 3% in Germany (Side note: what are they subscribing to if they are not on a contract? But I'll take your word for that).

http://www.3g.co.uk/PR/Feb2006/2578.htm

I am sure that it is a little better a year later, but I would love to get an answer to the larger point: Why is the uptake for 3G so low/slow? Doesn't sound to me like this technology is flying off the shelves.... yet.

I guess, in a larger sense, I am wondering how much of this 3G stuff is hype and how widespread the usage really is relative to the mobile communication needs of most normal consumers.
post #36 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Electric Monk View Post

Japan/South Korea, on the other hand, continue to be well ahead of everybody in mobile hardware & software technology (though their software user interface is as garbage, or worse, as everybody else'sexcepting Apple, of course).

Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post


The existence of advanced hardware/software features does not equal ease of use.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Really? Then: (i) How come less than 10% of phone customers in Europe have 3G contracts? Too expensive? Not what it's cracked up to be? "Nice to have" but not "must have?" Doesn't travel well? (ii) To everyone talking up 3G as though it is the holy grail: What exactly do you use it for? If your answer is "primary internet device" (and if not, I have no idea why you might want 3G) would you please tell me: (iii) what is your monthly bill?

The 10% of people who have 3G (45 million of 478.4 million mobile subscribers in Europe as of April 2007) represent the top end of the marketthe exact same segment that Apple is targeting. Also note that the more advanced markets in Europe, Italy say, have ~20% 3G penetration. That 10% figure isn't staying around for long.

3G allows: Direct to phone music downloads (now that Apple has entered that space, 3G would help them quite a bit). (Slow) broadband internet access, especially relevant for multimedia content, but even regular browsing is obviously much faster. Far greater coverage than WiFi for speedier net use, especially considering Europe's limited and slow EDGE coverage/speed (I freely admit Apple's hotspot deals are useful in reducing this disadvantage of the WiFi/EDGE combo, but coverage remains limited and The Cloud hotspots don't exist in Northern Ireland for instance). Faster everything for the current and future hybrid web/desktop apps Apple seems intent on shipping with the iPhone, and faster for the web only apps they foist on everybody else.

Look WiFi rocks, especially now that Apple is cutting deals to include WiFI networks, but EDGE coverage and speed in Europe (even now that Apple is forcing operators to upgrade it) isn't that great and doesn't remotely compare to UMTS.

Actually I'd wager that Jobs doesn't want to make a thicker iPhone. Simple as that. Look at the iPod touch, the movie playing iPod with 16GB of storage while the classic has 160GB of storage but a much worse screen. An extra little bit of thickness gives the Touch 80GB of storage, and much more useful for the movie toting person.

So, because a 3G chipset would make the iPhone thicker and because I'm certain 3G iPhone development started well after EDGE iPhone development, Jobs says it's not coming out yet. He'll offer whatever reasons he has to (so far coverage and battery life, of which the first doesn't apply in Europe where UMTS coverage is better than EDGE & WiFi coverage combined, and he's vastly overstating the second) especially because his job is sell current iPhones, not future ones.

When the 3G iPhone comes out he'll hype the hell out of that one, and dismiss any knocks against it like coverage or battery life.
post #37 of 45
when are they coming to canada? i can't wait.
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post #38 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Visual Voicemail works like an email server but stores voice messages. There would be no reason for T-Mobile in the US to have these voice servers installed. So my speculative answer is no.

Unless of coarse T-Mobile saw a benefit in providing this service to iPhone users that unlocked their iPhone. Has Apple and att patened the visual voice technology? Could T-Mobile set up the service if they wished? Now that the iPhone is unlocked and can technically be used on T-Mobile's network. Would it be legal and in T-Mobile's interest to provide service for unlocked iPhones? It might help retain its customers or even take customers back from att because people that already own iPhones and hated att could switch. Maybe T-Mobile could even offer to pay their cancelation fees.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?
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post #39 of 45
T-Mobile will support the iPhone in the sense that it will allow german T-Mobile customers to roam in the us on the network, from what i understand they will not ( do not ) have the unlock codes for the iPhone and a us based t-mobile SIM will not work in the iPhone, i have not heard if VV will work here in the US for the phone with T-Mobile. hopind that the unlock stays and if so i will be looking at getting one for myself to use on T-Mobile
post #40 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorsten View Post



How many countries do you think there are in Europe?
You know the EU only has 25 members, and with the German roll out, they also rolled out n the NEtherlands and Austria.

Thorsten,

Since this year the EU comprises 27 countries with a total of nearly 491 Million citizens.

Now if this is not a nice market for AAPL - I really dont know. I mean it's 63% more then the population of the US. Add to this an average margin which is about 15% higher (due to the weak dollar).

HELLLLOOOOOO-O anybody home in Cupertino ?
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