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Why the iPhone is still a beta product

post #1 of 85
Thread Starter 
Warning: Long Post

I"ve had mine for a week and come from a solid 11 years of usage with mobile phones and more importantly, the last 4 years with so called smart phones. My previous smart phones were the Nokia 6600 and Nokia N80.

So, just to share my experience so far:

Note: Running unlocked iPhone in France with Orange, running Firmware 1.02

Without further ado, I list what I find is lacking with the iPhone:

Design:

1. No place to put a strap. While 90% of the general population doesn't use one, I found it very useful to have even a small strap to make it easy to fetch out a phone in a pocket or just to put around a couple fingers while calling so you ensure that it doesn't slip (or even get stolen)
2. Slippery. The little bastard is slippery if have even slightly sweaty hands. Not good when you're in a disco or its summer or you do sports.
3. The headphone port/jack: It's SO recessed that you can't fit a majority of headphones. I have a pair of $400 e4C Shure in-ear headphones that.. I can't use. The blood boils.
4. Apple headphones are horrible in the ears. After 20 minutes they hurt. Gotten too jaded with the Shures :-/
5. 4GB of internal storage is quite a lot. But still the fact of not having removable kinda bothers me (ability to do a full backup and store it at home for example)
6. The touch screen. Its fantastic. But the jaded California designers forgot something pretty fucking blatant: People wear gloves in winter. The touch screen works only with contact of human skin. Even a fingernail mostly doesn't activate stuff. How in bloody hell am I going to simply ANSWER A PHONE call when its -10 outside and I have gloves on?

Functionality:

Global:

1. No copy/cut & paste
2. Bluetooth: Absolutely worthless, you can ONLY use a hands free bluetooth adapter. No file transfer, sync, fax, modem connectivity.
3. Language support: Only English dictionary/interface for now. I want to see how easy it will be to switch language dictionaries when typing SMSs. I constantly switch between Italian, English, and French every day.
4. Volume: the sounds are SO low. And you can't change the alert sound for SMSs. I always miss them unless I'm listening to the iPod, then there is a momentary interruption and I know something just happened.
5. Vibrate: Not terribly powerful.
6. No ability to use in disk mode
7. No (official) 3rd party software support. It's been hacked to hell, get with the program, make it official already.
8. Re 3rd party support: Perian for iPhone anyone? XViD/DiVX playback? It was done for the AppleTV, could be done for the iPhone, n'est ce pas?
9. NO SEARCH. I have 600+ contacts, plus the emails, plus notes, etc. There's a lot of info. Why no "spotlight" for iPhone?

SMS:

1. You can't create sub folders and save individual SMSs. I used to have at least a couple folders where I would keep certain messages. Whether they were personal, funny, directions, or whatever. It was pretty basic.
2. There is no "message confirmation" function. In all my Nokias you could turn on the function of having delivery reports to ensure that SMSs arrived to destination. This is a fundamental function to have when you're roaming in strange countries where you're not quite sure if your Mobile Operator has an agreement with, say, Borneo Telecom rather than Orangutan Mobile. I had that often where SMSs would go through with one operator but not another while roaming in said strange faraway places. This could be addressed simply by, for example, the message bubble becoming green when its confirmed and remaining greyed out until it is so. I'm not sure if that's the case already, but it would mean that confirmations come through extremely quickly and with the Nokias I had it would take at least 2-10 seconds for a reply.
3. No MMS functionality. The workaround of using email to send pictures to mobile numbers (e.g. 12345@att.com or 1234@orange.fr) is unknown to 99% of the population and just a pain in the ass. I don't send many but there are times where you just have to send one.. or receive one (theres nothing like getting pictures from a drunk friend from a party somewhere faraway)
4. Why can't you turn OFF the auto-correct function?
5. You can't forward sent messages
6. You can't send one message to multiple people at one



Calendar:

1. You call that an ALARM?? You mean to remind me of a meeting with a small, puny little "bleep"? Are you fucking kidding me? I want to be REMINDED and I want you to keep yealling at me until you got my attention and shut you the hell up. I don't want to hear a semi silent electronic fart! Get with it!!



Photos:

1. Why no basic photo editing features? You got a touch screen, let us use it! Ability to use your finger to draw on a picture or even crop it, brighten, colorize, add effects, etc etc. All things that Sony Ericssons and Nokias, Samsungs, etc have had for a long time. I could see this happen relatively soon.
2. I was really expecting to see a Mobile Photobooth function. i.e. distort, warhol effect, pinch, etc etc. They're absolutely hilarious. This was an obvious miss
3. Not sure where to put this complaint (I guess I'll refer to it later), but when you receive an email with an image attachment, WHY can't we save it into our photo gallery? Or even when we browse the web with safari, why can't we save images from the web to our gallery?
4. No uploading to a photo site/blog of our choice (Picasa, Flikr, not even .Mac?)


Camera:


1. No zoom. Digital zoom sucks, but let us choose to take sucky pics or not, mmkay?
2. No resolution prefs
3. No presets (night, sports, etc..)
4. Where in bloody hell is MOVIE function? Come on, even the first mobile phones with cameras (4-5 years ago) had movie taking abilities.


YouTube:


1. Too bad I can't log into my account and save to favorites or whatnot.


Stocks

1. No foreign stock exchanges supported (come on already, wheres the Euronext, CAC, TSE, etc?)


Maps

1. Given that Bluetooth is so crippled it might as well be taken out, the idea of an external Bluetooth GPS is not possible (for now).
2. If GPS were to work it would be nice to be able to CACHE a route or a map. I might not always have net or edge access and I want to be able to look at my map without net access.
3. Why can't I keep a screenshot in a contact's address book entry? Embedded, so I can see offline as well.
4. You have Streets you have Maps.. why can't I have the two? i.e. street names overlaid satellite maps?


Weather

1. Why does it forget the last update and HAS to get the latest update? I find that after a few hours or end of the day I check it out and its reset itself. It wont remember the temperatures it last got.


Clock:

1. Probably a glitch, but after the second time you press Snooze it won't snooze again. So.. like.. get up already.


Calculator

1. No complaints, but why not have an 'advanced' calculator if you want? I personally could care less, but you have a fantastic display, you could go all the way and even put a graphing calculator.


Notes

1. No complaints except.. how the hell do you back them up? Ah, right.. you don't. If you lose your iPhone or you have to restore it.. good bye notes!
2. The fact of not having cut & paste sucks too.
3. Why no horizontal keyboard entry? The keyboard is frustrating for typing long messages, please make our lives easier by being able to have more space while entering stuff in the Notes



Settings:

* Sounds:

1. Ringtones: You want us to PAY to be able to add ring tones? Are you fucking serious? Then again it explains why the ones that were included as default are so damn horrible.
2. The 'alert' sound for SMSs is WEAK. I have some that I made or found that really get your attention. Why can't I choose my own?

* Bluetooth:

1. As said before, it's TOTALLY useless. Only hand's free support for now


Phone:

1. Contacts: The "auto number formatting" is KILLING me. For the love of god let me enter a number normally without parentheses and spaces, etc. Its just.. wrong!
2. Contacts: I can add beautiful 256x256 pixel pictures for my contacts, why can't they appear, full screen, when they call instead of a measly 32x32 image that I have to squint at? Let me choose! Gimme the choice! It bothered the hell out of me with Nokias, I was hoping the iPhone would let me.
3. Contacts: No support for Groups. Incredibly useful to have


Mail:

1. Why can I not save emails that I choose in an offline folder? Hell, why can't I make folders in the first place? Where maybe I can save a particularly large email?
2. Why can't I save ANY attachments? Nor listen to an attached MP3, WAV, MOV, MP4, or whatever?
3. Its just a matter of time, but, hello "Office" support anyone? iPhone is based on MacOS X, the lowly Textedit in MacOS X has pretty decent .DOC support.. chop chop, lets go!
4. Why can't I type horizontally so I have more keyboard/finger space?


Safari:

1. Some sites have trouble with cookies and safari. Not sure whose problem that is, but its happened a few times
2. Why can't I save files? Sometimes I don't even care if I can open them, I just want to be able to save stuff (a ZIP file, RAR, .EXE or DMG or whatever)
3. Why no ability to "save file as.." or "save linked file as..."
4. Flash support. Hello there, this is the 21st century, just about every site has flash. Get with it (fair enough, this could be am Adobe problem, not Apple's)


iPod


1. No complaints here. (wow!)
I'm having deja-vu and amnesia at the same time. I think I've forgotten this before.
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I'm having deja-vu and amnesia at the same time. I think I've forgotten this before.
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post #2 of 85
Well perhaps you should have done your homework on the device before going out to buy it. Most of the mentioned were known from reviews and early tests a long time before it was launched.

Its like walking into a Burger King and saying wheres the Big Macs. lol
post #3 of 85
I hope you sent those requests to Apple. I also agree with bavlondon2. There have been dozens and dozens of reviews, including here, that have talked about what is lacking in the iPhone. You've not added anything new to that conversation. I'm not saying you're wrong, Apple should made the feature set more in keeping with other phones. My personal theory is that Apple shifted many of the programmers back to OS X development, and away from iPhone development, at least until Leopard ships. Hopefully we'll see a major update once Leopard ships.
post #4 of 85
Thread Starter 
yeah, I did know most of these things, but was really surprised by a lot too like no possibility of offline email saving and basically no attachment playback, etc...

I'm reporting most of these things to try and compound on the general frustration of what SHOULD be a well polished product but is either turning out to be a crippled device because it has to appease the Majors or is, well, a typical Apple First Version product.

I'm also submitting a lot of reports to Bugracker at Apple..

Hopefully will get some feedback..
I'm having deja-vu and amnesia at the same time. I think I've forgotten this before.
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I'm having deja-vu and amnesia at the same time. I think I've forgotten this before.
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post #5 of 85
I don't think ZO meant that he was surprised by these things - just that they are places where the iPhone falls short of what it could be.

It seems to me that most of the (serious) criticisms mentioned involve the lack of "file browsing," for lack of a better term. I wonder if the lack of file storage and browsing has something to do with Apple's decision to limit software development for the iPhone. Apple really has to open this thing up. They've got to be willing to let their baby get out into the real world and get a little dirty.
post #6 of 85
You forgot to mention that it doesn't walk your dog.
Quote:
I don't think ZO meant that he was surprised by these things - just that they are places where the iPhone falls short of what it could be.

you forgot to paraphrase that statement with a "... for HIM ... ".

Seriously, I have used my iPhone for just a couple of days and since I read everything I could, there was only one thing that came as a surprise - the inability to set the volume on the individual apps. Otherwise, it's spot on what I've read about it and better in real life, to boot.

I'm not a fan of any particular company, but I am a fan of great designs and the iPhone - and the MacBook Pro - are damn good designs. In a world where mediocre products are expected to excite people, these very nice products actually do.
post #7 of 85
Thread Starter 
There are quite a few file browsers and 'enhancements' you can download, but I'd like to see these things natively.

Also, Apple will HAVE to make it more open if they want be serious players in the mobile market.

Nokia sells a MILLION handsets PER DAY and thats also because there is a huge Developer community behind them.

I just can't figure out what Apple is WAITING FOR seeing that they're gonna do it eventually.
I'm having deja-vu and amnesia at the same time. I think I've forgotten this before.
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I'm having deja-vu and amnesia at the same time. I think I've forgotten this before.
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post #8 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taskiss View Post

you forgot to paraphrase that statement with a "... for HIM ... ".

I didn't think that was necessary - how could it be anything else but his personal opinion for his personal situation?
post #9 of 85
I think that all of use should form an online petition directed at Steve Jobs complimenting him on such a fine device but at the same time make a request for whatever we can cover in the above missing items that would be feasable by way of a software update.

He was nice enough to offer $100 credit after enough of you kicked up a stink about the price drop on the 8gb model so I dont see why he wouldnt respond IF enough of us wrote to him regarding this.

What do you think?
post #10 of 85
I'm with Taskiss on this one. I've had my iPhone for about two weeks now and I love it. Yes, it could be better -- there is room for improvement in every tech product -- but it does pretty much everything I expected it to. It is a joy to use. Although I did my research beforehand, I haven't read a single how-to manual since I bought it; it's so intuitive, I hit the ground running and have not looked back.

Clearly ZO is a power mobile user, and that is all well and good. But it's the simplicity of the iPhone that is one of its major selling points, I think. I actively don't want many of the functions he suggests. If I want to do heavy photo-editing work, I'll do it on my MBP with Photoshop.

He does have a point about the gloves, though. Although mine haven't seen a lot of action since I left chilly old Europe for the Deep South six years ago
post #11 of 85
wow what a great post! i hope that u have forwarded your opinions to the apple development team.

Realistically, i don't believe all of these things will be fixed or upgraded with future software releases. Some will of course, but i believe that in subsequent iterations of the iphone we will come to see mostly all of these suggestions implimented. The early adaptors are like beta testers in a sense. yes we have a great product, but it is unfinished in alot of regards i would agree. But overall it has been a great experince to use the device on a daily basis for me.

Good luck with your new phone!
post #12 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by imacFP View Post

My personal theory is that Apple shifted many of the programmers back to OS X development, and away from iPhone development, at least until Leopard ships. Hopefully we'll see a major update once Leopard ships.

I think your theory is 100% correct after the first delay of Leopard Steve was not going to let it slip again, and with some of the development issues they faced I am sure they moved resources around to make sure Oct release of Leopard was going to take place.

I am also guessing he is going to link many of the new iPhone features to the new OS as to get more people to upgrade to Leopard.

I just don't know what that will do for windows users if this is the case. maybe they will just have to buy a mac in order to use the iphone...LOL
post #13 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZO View Post

6. The touch screen. Its fantastic. But the jaded California designers forgot something pretty fucking blatant: People wear gloves in winter. The touch screen works only with contact of human skin. Even a fingernail mostly doesn't activate stuff. How in bloody hell am I going to simply ANSWER A PHONE call when its -10 outside and I have gloves on?

I thought this was kind of stupid on your part. This should have been completely obvious. Its kind of like saying "Hey, my car ran out of gas now. How the hell am I supposed to get to work? The people that designed this car are morons! They should have thought about people that neglect their vehicles and those who are completely oblivious to what the vehicle can't do without gas."

Again, like others have said, you have not mentioned anything new. All of these things have been discussed since launch day and some were even mentioned BEFORE launch. As I know these things are just your personal preference, do you really think we need 100 of these threads mentioning the SAME things over and over and over again?

We are all well aware of the Bluetooth, Safari, ringtones not being loud enough, etc....
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post #14 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Footloose301 View Post

Again, like others have said, you have not mentioned anything new. All of these things have been discussed since launch day and some were even mentioned BEFORE launch. As I know these things are just your personal preference, do you really think we need 100 of these threads mentioning the SAME things over and over and over again?

We are all well aware of the Bluetooth, Safari, ringtones not being loud enough, etc....

I guess you could always just choose not to take the time to read them and reply to them if you feel they are a waste of your time.

I see no problem with OZ posting what he thinks just like I don't see a problem with your posts but you really need to back off a bit.
post #15 of 85
I don't know if I would go as far to call it beta. The iPhone does what Apple has said it would do. It only does not do what Apple has not said it would do. There is a difference.

Most phones that attempt to do everything suck. I would rather have a device that does everything it was designed to do well. Without the usability of some functions suffering for the usability of others.

I would prefer to wait for future functionality when it is well integrated. Instead of the confusing array of menus that most phones are.
post #16 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

I don't know if I would go as far to call it beta. The iPhone does what Apple has said it would do. It only does not do what Apple has not said it would do. There is a difference.

Most phones that attempt to do everything suck. I would rather have a device that does everything it was designed to do well. Without the usability of some functions suffering for the usability of others.

I would prefer to wait for future functionality when it is well integrated. Instead of the confusing array of menus that most phones are.

I have to agree with both of you to a point. In this day and age you would think that Apple would support many of the stock and standard features of todays cell phones right from the start.

But you are correct in saying they do what Apple said they do.

The real question is do they do them as well as they could in terms of Apple product standards, and should Apple of made a better point in there ad's as to what the iPhone did not support with respect to what buyers have come to except as standard smartphone features?
post #17 of 85
Why the iPhone is still a beta product
Warning: Long Post

(snip)

Have you ever used another phone?
Yes, the iPhone lacks some features that other phones have.
But the incredibly unsatisfactory user experience on Nokias and Sony Ericssons leave me feeling that the engineers simply shoved the product out without ever even trying to use them. They are unfinished products.

At some point, when the phone could make a rudimentary web connection, or do basic email, the SonyEricsson guys slapped themselves on the back and said - yep. We have done, this product is now finished.

Furthermore, once these gadgets ship, that it. You got what you paid for. Nokia and Sony are never ever going to update them. You want more features? Buy yourself another one.

The iPhone feels much less like a Beta product. Each feature is finished and feels slick.

Checkout the first blog entry by Stephen Fry. http://www.stephenfry.com/blog/?p=3

C.
post #18 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gizmo-xl View Post

I guess you could always just choose not to take the time to read them and reply to them if you feel they are a waste of your time.

I see no problem with OZ posting what he thinks just like I don't see a problem with your posts but you really need to back off a bit.

You missed the point. I could care less if he posts his feelings. Good for him. Its encouraged. But he should post them on one of the MANY iPhone related topics already existing that ask "What is the iPhone lacking.... What do you want to see in the next update" etc.

There was no reason to make a new thread. Those are the things that clog up forums of useless material and then makes it harder to use the search function if people come here looking for answers.
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post #19 of 85
Checkout the first blog entry by Stephen Fry. http://www.stephenfry.com/blog/?p=3

the link does not work
post #20 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gizmo-xl View Post

In this day and age you would think that Apple would support many of the stock and standard features of todays cell phones right from the start.

If they used the offerings of other manufactures as a framework for their efforts there wouldn't be an iPhone.

In your rush to empathize with ZO and his passion about what the iPhone isn't, you seem to be ignoring the passion that others have for what they feel the iPhone is.
post #21 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniphage View Post

But the incredibly unsatisfactory user experience on Nokias and Sony Ericssons leave me feeling that the engineers simply shoved the product out without ever even trying to use them. They are unfinished products.

At some point, when the phone could make a rudimentary web connection, or do basic email, the SonyEricsson guys slapped themselves on the back and said - yep. We have done, this product is now finished.

Furthermore, once these gadgets ship, that it. You got what you paid for. Nokia and Sony are never ever going to update them. You want more features? Buy yourself another one.

Your points is well taken but in my mind once a manufacture releases a phone that really sets the bar for standard features and the ability to be updated easy so it is not out dated in 6 months. I am sure you will see a change in the cell phone market where manufactures have to slow down and build a better phones in order to stay in the market.

This is what I see the iphone doing to this market with in the next 2 years.

What does it mean to me -- I will be buying another iphone model in the future to stay current, but at some point very soon model changes are going to slow down and it will all be about software, battery life, and storage and that's it.

At this point the current model of the iPhone meets most of these points very well. I am sure we will see many new software features in the next year so when a 3G + GPS model is released for the next holiday season the iphone will have set the international cell phone bar that all other manufacture have to try and beat.
post #22 of 85
notes are backed up.. through itunes.

no, they're not synced back and forth, and there's currently no way of viewing it without an iPhone.. but they are in fact backed up. if your iphone dies, gets lost, stolen, whatever.. you can restore your new iphone from the backup.

i agree with some of your complaints.. but i would definitely not call it Beta. it's a great product, with room for improvement. it's a great phone.. without a doubt the best phone i've ever had. i always research phones before i buy them. i buy good phones, but i always have complaints, there's always room for improvement. but in the past, when i've bought a phone, i've continued to research newer and greater phones. because there was no perfect phone. i'm not saying the iphone is perfect, but i haven't looked into what new phones are coming out ever since i got my iPhone. i'm happy with my iPhone.
post #23 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZO View Post

Warning: Long Post

I"ve had mine for a week and come from a solid 11 years of usage with mobile phones and more importantly, the last 4 years with so called smart phones. My previous smart phones were the Nokia 6600 and Nokia N80.

So, just to share my experience so far:

Note: Running unlocked iPhone in France with Orange, running Firmware 1.02

Without further ado, I list what I find is lacking with the iPhone:



I agree. iPhone is still in Beta. Wait for next gen.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

 

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

 

Get the lowdown on the coming collapse:  http://www.cbo.gov/publication/45010

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post #24 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post


I agree. iPhone is still in Beta. Wait for next gen.

Ah, so then you're capable of showing it's shortcomings compared to the other bajillions of products in it's category available?

Let's see what cnet has to say, shall we?

Quote:
...the Apple iPhone sets a new benchmark for an integrated cell phone and MP3 player.

http://reviews.cnet.com/smart-phones...-32309245.html

Hardly beta. Get a grip on reality THEN post, OK?

Steve Jobs said: "Best iPod we've ever made, best phone we've ever made!
http://www.engadget.com/2007/05/30/s...e-from-d-2007/

Dispute that.
post #25 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taskiss View Post

Ah, so then you're capable of showing it's shortcomings compared to the other bajillions of products in it's category available?

Let's see what cnet has to say, shall we?


http://reviews.cnet.com/smart-phones...-32309245.html

Hardly beta. Get a grip on reality THEN post, OK?

Steve Jobs said: "Best iPod we've ever made, best phone we've ever made!
http://www.engadget.com/2007/05/30/s...e-from-d-2007/

Dispute that.

I think Spam was being sarcastic. Notice the smiley laughing? Perhaps I'm wrong but I think he was joking.
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post #26 of 85
I hope it's only beta, because if it is, think of how cool the final release will be.
post #27 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZO View Post

There are quite a few file browsers and 'enhancements' you can download, but I'd like to see these things natively.

Also, Apple will HAVE to make it more open if they want be serious players in the mobile market.

Nokia sells a MILLION handsets PER DAY and thats also because there is a huge Developer community behind them.

I just can't figure out what Apple is WAITING FOR seeing that they're gonna do it eventually.

Its just a different focus of what's important. Usability vs. featuritis

usability review
post #28 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by bavlondon2 View Post

Well perhaps you should have done your homework on the device before going out to buy it. Most of the mentioned were known from reviews and early tests a long time before it was launched.

Its like walking into a Burger King and saying wheres the Big Macs. lol

I completely agree.

The iPhone should not be purchased by anyone at this stage. It's an incomplete device and falls way short is so many areas.

Potential buyers; DON'T BUY IT!!
post #29 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riptide View Post

I completely agree.

The iPhone should not be purchased by anyone at this stage. It's an incomplete device and falls way short is so many areas.

Potential buyers; DON'T BUY IT!!

Yes, please don't buy one UNLESS...
1) You want a phone that you can actually use
2) You want a phone that's fun to use
3) you want a phone that just works, syncs trivially with your system
4) You want a phone that does 99% of what you need

Kindly submitted from an unusable iPhone over the unusable EDGE network!
post #30 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Footloose301 View Post

I think Spam was being sarcastic. Notice the smiley laughing? Perhaps I'm wrong but I think he was joking.

Yes, I was being sarcastic. I don't know how much more obvious one need be... \

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

 

Get the lowdown on the coming collapse:  http://www.cbo.gov/publication/45010

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

 

Get the lowdown on the coming collapse:  http://www.cbo.gov/publication/45010

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post #31 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZO View Post

Phone:
3. Contacts: No support for Groups. Incredibly useful to have

Now, I suppose it's entirely possible that my phone is the only one that shipped with this functionality, but...
My iPhone syncs my entire "Address Book" including the groups I have set up. And I do, in fact, find the "goups" feature quite useful.

I think some of the features you miss will be added as time passes, but I'd like to see louder volume (from the speaker) sooner rather than later.

A few of us that bought this phone are reaching middle age and have perhaps spent many years in an industrial environment which has affected our hearing. The various ring sounds could stand to be a LOT louder. (Yes, I've got the ringer volume turned all the way up!)
From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, "Look at that!" -...
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From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, "Look at that!" -...
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post #32 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taskiss View Post


I'm not a fan of any particular company, but I am a fan of great designs and the iPhone - and the MacBook Pro - are damn good designs. In a world where mediocre products are expected to excite people, these very nice products actually do.

I am not sure why you say the Mac Book Pro is a damn good design? It looks great sure but there are a couple of major flaws that would make me not include it in a damn good design category to be fair!

1 - the lid does not open far enough, pretty basic feature in a laptop, it allows you to view the screen when sitting or standing in a position higher than the MBP.

2 - again the lid arrangement is not very well designed leading to a well documented problem of warped lids like my MBP suffers from - the lid does not close properly so when in a bag it is possible for things to slip between the gap and possibly cause damage to the screen.


This is not great design, more a case of form over function.
post #33 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by physguy View Post

Yes, please don't buy one UNLESS...
1) You want a phone that you can actually use
2) You want a phone that's fun to use
3) you want a phone that just works, syncs trivially with your system
4) You want a phone that does 99% of what you need

Kindly submitted from an unusable iPhone over the unusable EDGE network!

Define not being able to use a Nokia S60 or SE UIQ device? It could well be a case of "have a device which you can use even if your dumb"

"Syncs Trivially"?? Excuse me but I think bringing the phones memory up as a mass storage device is the most basic and widley used method. So easy its used by all phones as well as portable hard drives, memory card readers ect.......syncing with itunes is dumb, i mean comeoff it, its annoying for chirst sake why can they just be like a normal phone. lol

"You want a phone that does 99& of what you need"? Well i bet Steve Jobs is hoping that people in Europe and Asia think like you buddy as you have low expectations. I think at the very least id expect the iphone to do what other phones (not just smartphones but cheap ass dumb phones) have been doing for the last 5 years.

MMS, using mp3s as a ringtone, record video, blog to sites, cut and paste text, forward sms mesages, delivery reports on an sms.

So what im trying to say is, speak for yourself buddy. I wont deny that the iphone has one of the best designs and interfaces possibly ever in a mobile device, and thats saying a lot.


But on the flip side if you want one you will have to be prepared to put up with many many shortcomings that would othrwise be standard on any other phones. Quite "trivial" really.
post #34 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gizmo-xl View Post

Checkout the first blog entry by Stephen Fry. http://www.stephenfry.com/blog/?p=3

the link does not work

Works for me!
post #35 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniphage View Post

Works for me!

I could not get to it from the office they must of blocked the site.... But I was able to get to it from home thanks. It was a very good read.
post #36 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by bavlondon2 View Post

Define not being able to use a Nokia S60 or SE UIQ device? It could well be a case of "have a device which you can use even if your dumb"

Along with my friends who have fancy phones that don't even know what they do why don't please see the link I posted above which does a credible job of trying to quantify this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bavlondon2 View Post

"Syncs Trivially"?? Excuse me but I think bringing the phones memory up as a mass storage device is the most basic and widley used method. So easy its used by all phones as well as portable hard drives, memory card readers ect.......syncing with itunes is dumb, i mean comeoff it, its annoying for chirst sake why can they just be like a normal phone. lol

No wonder phones are hard to use of the designer agree that remembering which files (and 'parts of files') you need to drag around to get information from one system to another is considered usability. After using Palm desktop and other similar systems its no wonder iTunes is leading the Window's downloads.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bavlondon2 View Post

"You want a phone that does 99& of what you need"? Well i bet Steve Jobs is hoping that people in Europe and Asia think like you buddy as you have low expectations. I think at the very least id expect the iphone to do what other phones (not just smartphones but cheap ass dumb phones) have been doing for the last 5 years.

Yep I do as those other phones, including the cheap ones and expensive one, didn't do half of what I wanted them to DO (not features) as I would never user their features as they were so hard to use. As I said in another post I think I'm a reasonable representative of the 'techs' as I just finished compiling and installing MySQL on my iPhone but I do understand what Apple is doing and both approve and think they will meet their stated goals.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bavlondon2 View Post

MMS, using mp3s as a ringtone, record video, blog to sites, cut and paste text, forward sms mesages, delivery reports on an sms.

Other that copy/paste none of this is anything I need. email for pics is better for me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bavlondon2 View Post

So what im trying to say is, speak for yourself buddy. I wont deny that the iphone has one of the best designs and interfaces possibly ever in a mobile device, and thats saying a lot.


But on the flip side if you want one you will have to be prepared to put up with many many shortcomings that would othrwise be standard on any other phones. Quite "trivial" really.

Of course I'm speaking for myself, just as you are. I also think I'm trying to understand not just what I want but what Apple is aiming for, and succeeding. 1,000,000 phone in 74 days out of the gate says they've seen something those that produce 'standard' phones have not. 'standard' is much too strong a word IMO. Ubiquitous is more appropriate. This has been the problem with phone design, IMO (I'll add that since it seems to be not-obvious). Feature lists over design.

I'll 'put up' with what you see as shortcomings, in exchange for actual use of the rest, and pleasurable use at that.

Cheers
post #37 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by physguy View Post

1,000,000 phone in 74 days out of the gate says they've seen something those that produce 'standard' phones have not. 'standard' is much too strong a word IMO. Ubiquitous is more appropriate. This has been the problem with phone design, IMO (I'll add that since it seems to be not-obvious). Feature lists over design.

I'll 'put up' with what you see as shortcomings, in exchange for actual use of the rest, and pleasurable use at that.

Cheers


Be careful with sales figures, By the time it took Apple to sell 1,000,000 iPhones Nokia sold somewhere in the region of 74,000,000 of these "standard" phones!!
post #38 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by murphyweb View Post

Be careful with sales figures, By the time it took Apple to sell 1,000,000 iPhones Nokia sold somewhere in the region of 74,000,000 of these "standard" phones!!

That's what I call ubiquitous
post #39 of 85
Thread Starter 
I just found another thing that I thought would've been obvious that doesn't (seem) to work.

I had a friend give me a restaurant number and while he was talking I put the keypad on and inserted the number.

When he hung up.. well.. the number was gone.

Anyone know how I can insert a number quickly without having to create a new contact? Obviously I can't put it in Notepad because you can't damn well copy and paste..

Regarding Notes backup... where or how did you find this out?

Regarding Groups.. well, I'll be damned, but Groups ARE synced.. you have to go "one level" up when you view your contacts.

I still can't stand that I can't search details that I inserted in notes or whatnot. Grr.

To everyone saying "you're just repeating what we already know" well then just skip the post or whatever. I used my Nokia smart phones to the limit and loved them for the flexibility they offer. Sure they have their bad aspects as well.. but, dammit, this is Apple, and, dammit they have not only the Newton experience but the ability to hire the most kick ass designers/engineers the world has to offer.

I've always thought of Nokia as having the closest to Apple interface/experience that you can get and to be honest while the iPhone is marvelous by far and large, its the details that count and what Apple usually EXCELS at. Thats why many people love MacOS vs Windows.. the details and the little things while making the whole experience flow.

I've been using Macs since the Apple II and, dammit, I KNOW that Apple NEVER gets it right the first time. At least not perfectly. Its usually their 2nd round where they nail it. I usually also manage to resist and wait for round 2 or even 3. But, hell, Apple has been working on this for YEARS and I really thought they would've nailed it beyond any expectation.

Instead... we have a fancy touch screen phone/tablet with neutered bluetooth and many basic features missing.

Honestly, what the fuck have they been working on if they had to reassign a huge chunk of people from the MacOS X team for so long and have had more than a decade of mobile phone tehnology to get ideas from and still not have things like MMS or copy and paste??

Yes, its "only" been out for 3 months on the public market, but they've had half a decade of work on it before.

Are they waiting for iPhone 2 for blutooth and MMS and picture editing and movie functions? Are they gonna make an announcement maybe next year that they will have such basic functionality and turn the RDF to the max and have the press and public say "oooh ahhh amazing.. gotta get me one of those".

Am gonna go to the Apple Expo tomorrow here in Paris.. will be hunting down people to ask what the heck is going on in their minds with the iPhone being so crippled. Obviously, as I know well enough, they'll just say "sorry, we aren't at liberty to say" or "don't know".

How frustrating..
I'm having deja-vu and amnesia at the same time. I think I've forgotten this before.
Reply
I'm having deja-vu and amnesia at the same time. I think I've forgotten this before.
Reply
post #40 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by murphyweb View Post

I am not sure why you say the Mac Book Pro is a damn good design?

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,2177656,00.asp
http://www.barefeats.com/santarosa.html#clocks
http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,13...s/article.html

Well, 'cause I own one and think it's a damn good design and apparently people that critique computers for a living do too.

I don't have a problem with how far the lid opens 'cause it opens far enough for me.
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