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Thin Apple notebooks may come clad in black aluminum - Page 3

post #81 of 177
9/22/07 at 1:59pm
If this has Penryn + WiMAX, as Intel has hinted may be the case, this will be my first Intel mac. I have a very mobile workplace, and would love a small laptop. Hell, it would virtually replace the blackberry for me.

Berg: I had a meeting with a rep from a Japanese company last week, and the guy had a Toshiba Dynabook SS30
I'd say that the rumored Apple model has the potential to be a lot better. Plus, the NAND storage easily beats the 1.8" HD.
Cat: the other white meat
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post #82 of 177
9/22/07 at 3:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave K. View Post

iPod hard drives are in constant use when one is watching movies on them. They can't be that bad....

I'm not so sure about that - all iPods have buffer RAM in them. The idea is that the hard drive is driven at full speed for very short bursts, just long enough to fill up the RAM. Then the media is played out of the RAM. When the buffer is close to empty, the hard drive is spun up again to pull in another burst of data.

In the 5G iPod, I believe the buffer RAM was 32 MB.
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post #83 of 177
9/22/07 at 3:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post

What about software that 'requires' the disc to be in the drive, like Matlab? A lot of the world still does not have broadband, so how do you update, install, reinstall the OS when your downlaod speed is 2.6 kbps?

Didn't apple have a patent application a while ago for a different type of DVD drive - one that was just a disc shaped depression in the bottom of the case so there was no loading slot/drawer hardware?


This device is not being designed for apps like that; over the years I have had one app that need the disc in the drive and that was a game that I would never dream of placing on my portable.

This device also would likely be bought by people who already have one, two or even three big boy computers and are looking for something to carry around easily; they would plug it in to a home machine via FW 800 (I hope not USB 2).

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

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Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

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post #84 of 177
9/22/07 at 8:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by lfmorrison View Post

In the 5G iPod, I believe the buffer RAM was 32 MB.

The 60 gig has a 64 MB buffer.
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post #85 of 177
9/23/07 at 12:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post

What about software that 'requires' the disc to be in the drive, like Matlab? A lot of the world still does not have broadband, so how do you update, install, reinstall the OS when your downlaod speed is 2.6 kbps?

Didn't apple have a patent application a while ago for a different type of DVD drive - one that was just a disc shaped depression in the bottom of the case so there was no loading slot/drawer hardware?

But, the drive doesn't have to be in the computer.

Who knows if that's for present devices?
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post #86 of 177
9/23/07 at 1:35am
For me the most important feature of a ultra portable is it being an all in one.
I would gladly sacrifice (some) weight and thickness if it would truly be an all in one.
I don't use a mouse as this means lugging around extra stuff - and I would *hate* having to pack extra gadgets such as an external drive (160 gb HD is minimum), a DVD (for file transfers and backup).
Ideally an ultra-portable PowerBook would have a slot for storing the AC-adapter.
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post #87 of 177
9/23/07 at 2:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kendoka View Post

For me the most important feature of a ultra portable is it being an all in one.
I would gladly sacrifice (some) weight and thickness if it would truly be an all in one.
I don't use a mouse as this means lugging around extra stuff - and I would *hate* having to pack extra gadgets such as an external drive (160 gb HD is minimum), a DVD (for file transfers and backup).
Ideally an ultra-portable PowerBook would have a slot for storing the AC-adapter.

Get a macbook.

Some really need to assess what the concept of an ultraportable means.
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post #88 of 177
9/23/07 at 4:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogerborn View Post

Thin makes no sense unless it is a truly driveless laptop.
No hard drive - solid state only.
No Superdrive. Who uses these drives anymore on a laptop?
If true, expect the price to be closer to 2K.
A nine or even eleven inch screen would be awesome.
But, if Steve Jobes doesn't use it, it never gets produced.

Regards,
Roger Born
"These are my principles. If you don't like them, I have others."

How the hell are you supposed to install programs or re-install the operating system if it doesn't come with an optical drive?

I remember Apple releasing those Bondi Blue iMacs without either a floppy or a CD burner and the infamous hockey puck mouse, but Job's age is supposed to make him wiser, not dumber...
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post #89 of 177
9/23/07 at 8:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by camimac View Post

How the hell are you supposed to install programs or re-install the operating system if it doesn't come with an optical drive?.

Haven't you heard? Leopard is being released on a 8GB Firewire Flash Drive, super fast booting, no need to install.
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post #90 of 177
9/23/07 at 9:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by camimac View Post

How the hell are you supposed to install programs or re-install the operating system if it doesn't come with an optical drive?

I remember Apple releasing those Bondi Blue iMacs without either a floppy or a CD burner and the infamous hockey puck mouse, but Job's age is supposed to make him wiser, not dumber...

Apple seems to have survived those "dumb" actions you mention.
There are a fair number of people owning these portables without optical drives, and they seem to be surviving. Mac users will survive as well.

If you really want an ultra portable, you will have to do without something, and that something will be an optical drive.

If you can't live without a built-in optical, then buy something bigger, and heavier.

Simple, right?
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post #91 of 177
9/23/07 at 9:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kendoka View Post

For me the most important feature of a ultra portable is it being an all in one.
I would gladly sacrifice (some) weight and thickness if it would truly be an all in one.
I don't use a mouse as this means lugging around extra stuff - and I would *hate* having to pack extra gadgets such as an external drive (160 gb HD is minimum), a DVD (for file transfers and backup).
Ideally an ultra-portable PowerBook would have a slot for storing the AC-adapter.

These often go against each other. Using your last "ideal" as an example. Adding a power-supply and an area for a retractable cable would make the device thicker than anything we currently have.

You have to be willing to make sacrifices to get ultra-portable. Personally, I hope it's retains the footprint of a 4x3 screen. These Sony Ultra-portables with 16x9 screens are as nearly as wide as a regular machine but have no screen height. Widescreen maybe all the rage but it's a drawback when you are using it to read pages. When in a confined space (say sitting on a plane), it's your width space that is limited. I want the largest surface area of a screen I can get in an ultra-portable. I guess that would be a 1x1 ratio. Does anyone make square screens?
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post #92 of 177
9/23/07 at 7:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by camimac View Post

How the hell are you supposed to install programs or re-install the operating system if it doesn't come with an optical drive?

I remember Apple releasing those Bondi Blue iMacs without either a floppy or a CD burner and the infamous hockey puck mouse, but Job's age is supposed to make him wiser, not dumber...

odd that my old "ultra"portable ("ultra" in quotes because it wasn't a true ultra portable) has no built in optical drive but came with an external bay that I could swap in either a floppy or dvd-reader as desired. And not haul it around with me if so desired.

Why are folks arguing that an ultra portable needs an optical drive when the majority do not? Or that 160GB is required? Jeez. Some do...like the Sony but its not a requirement of category. Personally, I would trade the typical GMA 950 or GMA X3100 for dedicated graphics and not including an integrated drive. That would set it apart from the Lenovo, Sony and Toshiba which DO have an integrated DVD drive but integrated graphics.

Meaning a Apple ultra-portable MBP vs a MB. That, along with OSX, would make it stand out a little in the ultraportable market.
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post #93 of 177
9/23/07 at 8:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by lfmorrison View Post

Eating apples on Wednesdays during the vernal equinox is not an option and quite frankly stupid.

Seriously, I've never had to restore my operating system while I'm on-the-go. Same for installing new software.

Sell us an ultraportable that comes with an external optical drive. I'll leave the optical drive at home and use it when I need to restore my system or in the rare circumstance that I need to install new software which wasn't acquired and downloaded online. The rest of the time, I don't want the extra weight thank-you-very-much.

An optical drive doesn't mean heavy. One can get a Sony TX with an optical drive, and the entire machine weighs 2.75lb and is still very compact.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rtdunham View Post

2) wide screens are useful only in viewing video but diminish readability.

No. Extra pixel density might hurt readability, but widescreen alone doesn't do this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post

What about software that 'requires' the disc to be in the drive, like Matlab? A lot of the world still does not have broadband, so how do you update, install, reinstall the OS when your downlaod speed is 2.6 kbps?

Maybe with a separate drive? How often do you need to reinstall the OS? That can be done at home, on the go, you're not likely to carry the OS reinstall CD with you, are you?

Software that requires an optical disk just to run (rather than just install) is very rare, I don't think it's a good idea to let that hold back progress with that because it's a dumb idea to do that in the first place.
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post #94 of 177
9/23/07 at 8:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by freelander51 View Post

How about this :

1./ People who watch DVDs on their laptop
2./ People who backup their laptop
3./ People who use their (pro) laptop to burn DVD/CD
4./ People who have other people giving them data CD/DVD

the list is ENDLESS

dell did this a while ago as well where the optical drive was a separate enclosure. Major PITA

Why? You can buy plenty of movies that without having to be on DVD. Apple sells them that way. You can copy files to a thumb drive. That covers the remaining four points. Full system backups can be done at home, on the go, the backup only needs to cover documents that were changed, and thumb drives are clearly big enough to handle most people's changed documents. For good full-system backups, you really need an external hard drive anyway, optical drives are too slow & tedious for that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by EEVOL View Post

That black "mock up" case is from ColorWarePC.com, they sell modified MBP cases of all colors for a decent price.

Nice, plagiarism. I really don't know if I'd call ColorWare's prices decent though.
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post #95 of 177
9/23/07 at 8:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

An optical drive doesn't mean heavy. One can get a Sony TX with an optical drive, and the entire machine weighs 2.75lb and is still very compact.

Sure. It could have been under 2.5 pounds without it, and smaller still.

Quote:
No. Extra pixel density might hurt readability, but widescreen alone doesn't do this.

What widescreen does do, is to shrink the height. you get less on the screen at once. A web page would have to be scolled more to read the entire thing.
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post #96 of 177
9/23/07 at 9:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

An optical drive doesn't mean heavy. One can get a Sony TX with an optical drive, and the entire machine weighs 2.75lb and is still very compact.

2.75lbs is much too heavy! 800g is the maximum weight that can sell well in Japan. There is no excuse for a laptop to weigh more than that.
Mac user since August 1983.
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post #97 of 177
9/23/07 at 9:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarling View Post

2.75lbs is much too heavy! 800g is the maximum weight that can sell well in Japan. There is no excuse for a laptop to weigh more than that.

You shouldn't use Japan as a basis of what will sell well in the US or EU. You may find that to loss a built-in optical drive just to shed some weight may not work so well in those markets. Japan may be ahead with technology, but that doesn't mean everyone else is following directly in their footsteps. Most "westerners" that I know still feel a 15" screen is ideal as they move from a desktop to a notebook as their main machine.
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post #98 of 177
9/23/07 at 9:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarling View Post

2.75lbs is much too heavy! 800g is the maximum weight that can sell well in Japan. There is no excuse for a laptop to weigh more than that.

How much do those cost? My impression is that weight is the leading edge, not the maximum, it ends up being like squeezing turnips for blood, or so the expression goes. Already ultraportables are pretty expensive, setting 800g as an upper limit would be even more so.
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post #99 of 177
9/23/07 at 11:27pm
I'm confused...I want one but during waking hours I use a superdrive every 5 hours or so and I burn while I'm sleeping as well. How can you use a laptop without a drive?
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post #100 of 177
9/23/07 at 11:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eros View Post

Get a macbook.

Some really need to assess what the concept of an ultraportable means.

I guess some of us just miss the 12" PB :-)

Personally I wouldn't be mind an external optical drive as long as it was flawless when I need to do boot from it with the install disks. I would just by an extra one so I had one for work and one for home like I do now with powerpacks.

The less I have in the bicycle pannier the better!

Michael
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post #101 of 177
9/23/07 at 11:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by success View Post

I'm confused...I want one but during waking hours I use a superdrive every 5 hours or so and I burn while I'm sleeping as well. How can you use a laptop without a drive?

Exactly what are you writing? I haven't needed to write a disc in a long time. My notebooks have writers but I've never used them.
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post #102 of 177
9/24/07 at 12:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

Exactly what are you writing? I haven't needed to write a disc in a long time. My notebooks have writers but I've never used them.

That's insane. I'm burning even as I type this post on my MacBook. I burn everything from music and movies to data backups containing anything under the sun. You guys must not be using torrent trackers therefore must be over 40 or something. That's the only logical explanation I can think of for not using burners. I'm just saying that your needs must be different for demographic reasons. I just burned a DVDs worth of music that I downloaded from the past few days, 5 movies etc...oh oh, now the same people are going to chime in about illegal downloads.
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post #103 of 177
9/24/07 at 12:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by success View Post

That's insane. I'm burning even as I type this post on my MacBook. I burn everything from music and movies to data backups containing anything under the sun. You guys must not be using torrent trackers therefore must be over 40 or something. That's the only logical explanation I can think of for not using burners. I'm just saying that your needs must be different for demographic reasons. I just burned a DVDs worth of music that I downloaded from the past few days, 5 movies etc...oh oh, now the same people are going to chime in about illegal downloads.

The I guess an ultra-portable with no drive is not the machine for you. It is for me.
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post #104 of 177
9/24/07 at 12:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by success View Post

That's insane. I'm burning even as I type this post on my MacBook. I burn everything from music and movies to data backups containing anything under the sun. You guys must not be using torrent trackers therefore must be over 40 or something. That's the only logical explanation I can think of for not using burners. I'm just saying that your needs must be different for demographic reasons. I just burned a DVDs worth of music that I downloaded from the past few days, 5 movies etc...oh oh, now the same people are going to chime in about illegal downloads.

Most of us just try to do legal things.
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post #105 of 177
9/24/07 at 12:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by success View Post

That's insane. I'm burning even as I type this post on my MacBook. I burn everything from music and movies to data backups containing anything under the sun. You guys must not be using torrent trackers therefore must be over 40 or something. That's the only logical explanation I can think of for not using burners. I'm just saying that your needs must be different for demographic reasons. I just burned a DVDs worth of music that I downloaded from the past few days, 5 movies etc...oh oh, now the same people are going to chime in about illegal downloads.

That is most asinine attempt at logic I've read on this forum. I for one, am not over 40, have hardly used my optical drive--much less my burner--,yet have very large and robust collection of media. My secret, I use a media server.

Pros:
Faster read access than optical media.
Ability to stream across LAN.
Ability to access entire collection remotely.

There are countless other pros that include lack of scratching and organization, but I'll stop with 3 that I find to be the most important to me.
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post #106 of 177
9/24/07 at 1:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Most of us just try to do legal things.

yeah...next
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post #107 of 177
9/24/07 at 1:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

That is most asinine attempt at logic I've read on this forum. I for one, am not over 40, have hardly used my optical drive--much less my burner--,yet have very large and robust collection of media. My secret, I use a media server.

wtf? an online media server? lol yeah have fun waiting every time you want to listen, watch or read one of your files. If it's your own network you may not have to wait, but you still don't have your own backups. Are you one of those people that think your stuff is safe with online data servers? Or maybe your stuff isn't that valuable to you.
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post #108 of 177
9/24/07 at 2:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by success View Post

wtf? an online media server? lol yeah have fun waiting every time you want to listen, watch or read one of your files. If it's your own network you may not have to wait, but you still don't have your own backups. Are you one of those people that think your stuff is safe with online data servers? Or maybe your stuff isn't that valuable to you.

"Don't have your own backups?" "Online data servers?"

For a warez kid you're remarkably out of touch with technology. Unless your time is worth *nothing* you don't mess around making backups of a large media library to DVDs. That's why they invented hard drives. Just with four decent-sized hard drives you have 1.5 terabytes of RAID 1 storage, and presto, there's your backup too.
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post #109 of 177
9/24/07 at 4:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gon View Post

"Don't have your own backups?" "Online data servers?"

For a warez kid you're remarkably out of touch with technology. Unless your time is worth *nothing* you don't mess around making backups of a large media library to DVDs. That's why they invented hard drives. Just with four decent-sized hard drives you have 1.5 terabytes of RAID 1 storage, and presto, there's your backup too.

yeah if you're an idiot and trust some company because it has "superior arrays" over the next bunch of bozos for $5.00/month less. Not to mention no matter how confidential any company says their info is there are always risks. My stuff in my house. Your stuff on some corps servers. Have fun.

You just dated yourself grandpa by saying warez kid lol who the f%$@ says that anymore? Wired mag?
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post #110 of 177
9/24/07 at 4:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by success View Post

That's insane. I'm burning even as I type this post on my MacBook. I burn everything from music and movies to data backups containing anything under the sun. You guys must not be using torrent trackers therefore must be over 40 or something. That's the only logical explanation I can think of for not using burners. I'm just saying that your needs must be different for demographic reasons. I just burned a DVDs worth of music that I downloaded from the past few days, 5 movies etc...oh oh, now the same people are going to chime in about illegal downloads.

I use hard drives. Optical storage is way too slow and involves too much handling.

You mention demographics - keep that in mind. Just because a product doesn't support your particular demographic doesn't mean it's bad. A hypothetical thin Apple notebook would not be a product for your demographic, but that doesn't mean it will flop.

I'm impressed that you can burn that much, much less with a notebook drive, without it dying on you.
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post #111 of 177
9/24/07 at 6:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by success View Post

wtf? an online media server? lol yeah have fun waiting every time you want to listen, watch or read one of your files. If it's your own network you may not have to wait, but you still don't have your own backups. Are you one of those people that think your stuff is safe with online data servers? Or maybe your stuff isn't that valuable to you.

Where did I say "online media server"? And what part of "LAN" or "faster access than optical media" didn't you understand? It's all in my home. Why burn a DVD when I can stream it directly to my TV using Front Row on my Mac mini instantly using a beautifully designed interface where everything is well organized by me? If I am traveling I merely copy about 100GB of enjoyable media to my Mac prior to traveling. That 100GB will copy faster than you can burn a single DVD. I bet you keep your different media on separate spindles. The organizational nightmare you must face when looking for something and then you have to handle everything so gently and you loan anything out. I can loan media by simply copying to the secure FTP older on my system that my friends have access to.
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post #112 of 177
9/24/07 at 7:04am
Watch the supporters of optical drives cite this:

Instead, Leopard will now require Macs with "an Intel processor or a PowerPC G4 (867 MHz or faster) or G5 processor." Other system requirements include a DVD drive, built-in FireWire, at least 512MB of RAM (additional recommended), and at least 9GB of hard disk space.

It appears logic has been lost on this thread!
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post #113 of 177
9/24/07 at 7:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eros View Post

Watch the supporters of optical drives cite this:

Instead, Leopard will now require Macs with "an Intel processor or a PowerPC G4 (867 MHz or faster) or G5 processor." Other system requirements include a DVD drive, built-in FireWire, at least 512MB of RAM (additional recommended), and at least 9GB of hard disk space.

It appears logic has been lost on this thread!

I'm surprised it hasn't been mentioned already. If Apple does remove the internal optical drive I hope they don't follow in the footsteps of other OEMs by creating a restore partition on the internal HDD. I know HP/Compaq, Dell, and Sony do it. What a waste of value HDD capacity!
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post #114 of 177
9/24/07 at 8:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eros View Post

Watch the supporters of optical drives cite this:

Instead, Leopard will now require Macs with "an Intel processor or a PowerPC G4 (867 MHz or faster) or G5 processor." Other system requirements include a DVD drive, built-in FireWire, at least 512MB of RAM (additional recommended), and at least 9GB of hard disk space.

It appears logic has been lost on this thread!

Some systems have external DVD drives, but they are still DVD drives all the same, are they not?

Edit: Note that I am not a optical drive supporter, simply commenting on wording and technicalities.
Crentist?! That sounds an awful lot like *dentist.*
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Crentist?! That sounds an awful lot like *dentist.*
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post #115 of 177
9/24/07 at 8:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by crentist View Post

Some systems have external DVD drives, but they are still DVD drives all the same, are they not?

I think that is the point s/he was making. ie.: The supporters of optical drives within the notebook will overlook the fact it can be an external attachment to be used as needed.
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post #116 of 177
9/24/07 at 9:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by success View Post

yeah if you're an idiot and trust some company because it has "superior arrays" over the next bunch of bozos for $5.00/month less. Not to mention no matter how confidential any company says their info is there are always risks. My stuff in my house. Your stuff on some corps servers. Have fun.

You still don't get it. My server, at home. Not some company's. All the encryption, VPN, one-time SSH passwords and backup methods I care to use.

If I happened to be elsewhere, as long as that end has a decent connection I'll be fine using the stuff. There's nothing less than 100MB wire and routers between me and this country's internet backbone.

I'd be a retard to shuffle around a pile of optical disks and burn more on an ultraportable laptop (remember, there's an actual context for this thread?). I actually did have a small tower of burned CD's eight, nine years ago when it made more practical sense, and when I was still a warez monkey. That was then. Now even the 50GB of a dual-layer Blu-Ray is starting to seem small compared to the 1TB hard drive you can pick up at the store, and Blu-Ray still hasn't become mainstream and cost effective.
Quote:
You just dated yourself grandpa by saying warez kid lol who the f%$@ says that anymore? Wired mag?

I admit I feel about twenty years your elder right now. You are in single digits, right?
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post #117 of 177
9/24/07 at 11:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by macNewbTube View Post

http://macnewbtube.wordpress.com/200...eens-flash-hd/

Me likey!

nasty!

look like the HPs and Toshibas at best buy.
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post #118 of 177
9/24/07 at 12:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by p2rjade View Post

I would go for this.... I photoshop too..
http://www.flickr.com/photos/13994703@N02/1423885327/

no.

good work, but it looks too much like commodity pcs from hp and toshiba. too cheap. apple will have to come out with somehting that tops the current models.
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post #119 of 177
9/24/07 at 1:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by freelander51 View Post

How about this :

1./ People who watch DVDs on their laptop
2./ People who backup their laptop
3./ People who use their (pro) laptop to burn DVD/CD
4./ People who have other people giving them data CD/DVD

the list is ENDLESS

dell did this a while ago as well where the optical drive was a separate enclosure. Major PITA

Why was it a PITA? Did Dell keep the lack of optical drive secret?
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post #120 of 177
9/25/07 at 7:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by success View Post

yeah if you're an idiot and trust some company because it has "superior arrays" over the next bunch of bozos for $5.00/month less. Not to mention no matter how confidential any company says their info is there are always risks. My stuff in my house. Your stuff on some corps servers. Have fun.

A RAID array installed in your own home has nothing to do with paying some company so many dollars per month for an online data service.

If an entire platter in your Level 1 RAID array goes completely bonkers, all your data is still intact due to its inherent redundancy. If you want to survive two-point or more failures, then higher level RAID arrays are also possibilities.

If you scratch your DVD, the file contained on that part of the disc is gone forever.
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