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Up next for Apple: the return of the Newton - Page 5

post #161 of 314
9/27/07 at 5:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacinHub View Post

How about they just add a working calendar and email program to the touch.
I would buy that today if it were available, and a lot of others would too.

There are a lot of people who want to have email and a calendar in their pocket who aren't going to buy an iPhone because of service issues or contracts.

There is no technical reason not to do this, apple is leaving $ on the table.

Quite agree. To Dos, Notes, Calendar entry, PDF viewer and Office file editing, would have meant that people who can't justify £270 on a media device could have sold it to themselves on the productivity side. I, and I suspect most, have access to my POP email account through my ISP's web-mail anyhow so email isn't a massive omission.

The real kick in the teeth is that for about a week after announcement Apple's web site clearly stated that you could enter calendar events. That statement was removed about the time they started shipping.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eckofish View Post


Great, not sure about the Camera, too many business/organisations forbid.

Reckon they can squeeze a MiniDVI port on there for Keynote? or can a 30pin-dock connector be adapted to output VGA/DVI whilst still taking a power input?
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post #162 of 314
9/27/07 at 6:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac View Post

This is what you're looking for.

Mobile OSX plus mobile chips smaller than a penny but more powerful than Core solos. Amazing

Oh and did I mention that WiMAX will be supported.

Nice SOC. Yeah I saw those and then forgot all about them since I didn't see right away why I'd want them.
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post #163 of 314
9/27/07 at 6:16am
You know, a MobilePro 900 like dock would be awesome too...being able to type on a keyboard made the MobilePro useful for a lot of writers that didn't need a full laptop and the thing really was mobile. Even more so than an ultraportable. The keyboard was 92% the size of a notebook keyboard.
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post #164 of 314
9/27/07 at 6:42am
deleted by troberts, see 'Reloaded' post below
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post #165 of 314
9/27/07 at 6:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by troberts View Post

I did not see a product matrix so I made one.

[IMG]http://ibook-g4.local/~trroberts/images/Newton_Matrix.png


Could you check the link: we don't have access to your iBook's hard disk!
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post #166 of 314
9/27/07 at 7:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiffy1 View Post

Your ignorance is displeasing. 1) why the h*ll would you put a harddrive in an ultra-portable device. Flash memory is where even notebooks are heading. 2) Palms and other PDAs are not "hobby device", so why would the new Newton be so? Newtons were the original PDA, and were widely adopted across several industries, including medicine. 3) Newton's were big due to the technology at the time, and because they were more powerful. Palm's have only recent approached the power of the Newton. And obviously you can have a better display on a larger device, especially for professional applications (ever try reading much off of a Palm? it sucks.).

some more interesting things to ponder... why is Apple creating diverging devices when all this stuff could be on one device (e.g. phone, pda, music player)? Maybe they're doing it for profit, or maybe different people want different functionality. Maybe they will re-integrate these functions on a single device, e.g. if they ever open the iPhone up to development. just some random thoughts... discuss!


Disagree...there is a reason to use a drive in something like this, mass amounts of storage. I think a hybrid system is your best way to go for for something like this.. have 16 or 32gb of flash on there for the OS and cache for fastest access times, and have a hdd in there for data, programs ect. The device would have the proper power management to use the disk only if you needed to access it to keep batt life up. 3rd party apps are a given, there would be no point if it were not there. I think by this time the sdk would definatly be avail to developers ...If done correctly this could absolutely be a laptop replacement and fill in the spot where the old 12 inch ibook was.
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post #167 of 314
9/27/07 at 8:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrtotes View Post

Could you check the link: we don't have access to your iBook's hard disk!

This is the first image I tried to include in a post. It worked for me in preview, but I obviously did something wrong. How do I include an image that is on my desktop, and can it be a PNG image?
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post #168 of 314
9/27/07 at 8:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackSummerNight View Post

This is why the iPhone and iPod touch is limited and Apple doesn't want you to put your own 3rd party apps on it. They have a PDA they want to push, and if some developer is writing apps that will do everything that this PDA offers it will equal low PDA sells. Just my .02.

It's a very interesting idea, for sure. And if there really is a tablet coming, I bet that exact thought has been tossed back and forth in meetings at Apple.

At the risk of sounding like a shill for someone else's writing, though, I think one of the most insightful things I read along the lines of the "Where is the iPhone SDK?" came from John Siracusa on Ars Technica. The article can be found here:

The Frontier

He reminds us that even though this is OS X, Apple is basically in the process of inventing an entirely new interface paradigm. They're still trying to decide a lot in the details about what they think constitute the new rules for interface design.

So even if they were planning to throw the platform wide open to developers with the intro of a tablet, there would still be a ton of work to do before an SDK would land in the hands of you and me.
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post #169 of 314
9/27/07 at 9:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandau View Post

i don't get this. the iphone already does this and more, what would a larger form factor give you other than something harder to transport?

Oh I can think of some markets for this. For one thing, it is much lighter, durable, and cheaper than a laptop, so this would make a perfect item for students in elementary and high school. It would also be the ideal thing to take with you to bed for reading e-books and surfing the web. I find using my hot, heavy laptop in bed a nuisance. And when you're traveling and want to jot down notes, but find the iPhone's screen too small, and the laptop too inconvenient to pull out for a quick note, then I think this device would be perfect. I think the only barrier to this kind of gadget so far has been price. When tthat comes down, I expect to see lots of road warriers getting something like this.
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post #170 of 314
9/27/07 at 9:36am
Originally Posted by zunx
WOW! Amazing. Make it a full Mac OS X computer on your hand and that is what we have been waiting for years for all students, lecturers and researchers at our University. With full Keynote and PowerPoint NATIVE file support. The ultimate handhelp presentation remote. We need thousands.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hobbes View Post

Well, if it's real it won't be Mac OS X. It will be OS X Mobile.
And I don't doubt that iWork will be coming one day for OS X Mobile, but it's going to take time.
Why do you think your university could use thousands of these? Why not just use a laptop for a presentation, or to take notes?

The new Intel Silverthorne chips allows the full Mac OS X inside. On the other hand, laptops are too heavy, bulky and large. We need a small handhelp full computer, and now the technology to make it has arrived.
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post #171 of 314
9/27/07 at 9:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by daratbastid View Post

Disagree...there is a reason to use a drive in something like this, mass amounts of storage.

Yeah, that is true today, but hard drives are going the way of the dodo, and happily so. Flash memory may be tiny now in comparison, but expect this to double every year, and in 5 years it wlil be where hard drives are today, but consuming far less power and putting out a lot less heat. So I think this argument is like the one people were having back when Apple was the first to stop installing 3.5" floppy drives. people simply could not imagine a world without them, but Apple wisely weened us off it them, and today no one misses them.
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post #172 of 314
9/27/07 at 9:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ravelgrane View Post

Yeah, that is true today, but hard drives are going the way of the dodo, and happily so. Flash memory may be tiny now in comparison, but expect this to double every year, and in 5 years it wlil be where hard drives are today, but consuming far less power and putting out a lot less heat. So I think this argument is like the one people were having back when Apple was the first to stop installing 3.5" floppy drives. people simply could not imagine a world without them, but Apple wisely weened us off it them, and today no one misses them.

There's moving on to the next thing, and there's jumping the gun. Do you do realize that five years is about the max reasonably expected life span of portable electronics? Hard drives aren't static, they too are still advancing fairly quickly, so you might find 128GB flash as a counterpart to a 1TB+ 1.8" drive. 1.8" hard drives don't consume that much power or generate that much heat.
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post #173 of 314
9/27/07 at 9:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandau View Post

you might be right, but why would i want a phone .and. a PDA? that would make as much sense as an iPod, iPhone and PDA on my mega utility belt. (not going to happen).

hey, at least it's better than palm's dumb folio idea.
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post #174 of 314
9/27/07 at 10:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

It has the hardware and OS components of a PDA, but the included iTouch software doesn't do a few things that's critical to a PDA, such as take, store, sync and show notes, have a todo list, and there's this inability to enter contacts (or is it calendar entries?, it does one but not the other). It is very nice and it has incredible potential, but it's not quite there yet either.

I concede that point. It does need a few more things to truly be a fully functional PDA and I don't think the iPod Touch itself would ever become a high powered PDA without Apple opening the doors to third party software developers, but I do think its basic functionality is more PDAish than anything else. Gotta love the technology gray area.
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post #175 of 314
9/27/07 at 10:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by troberts View Post

This is the first image I tried to include in a post. It worked for me in preview, but I obviously did something wrong. How do I include an image that is on my desktop, and can it be a PNG image?

Load onto one of the photo sharing sites first...
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post #176 of 314
9/27/07 at 10:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by xTungstenx View Post

I concede that point. It does need a few more things to truly be a fully functional PDA and I don't think the iPod Touch itself would ever become a high powered PDA without Apple opening the doors to third party software developers, but I do think its basic functionality is more PDAish than anything else. Gotta love the technology gray area.

In most respects I do agree.

I really don't think it would take much to get to something I can use as a PDA, for me, it looks like's 99% there, but the last pieces of the puzzle are pretty limiting.
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post #177 of 314
9/27/07 at 4:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by troberts View Post

I did not see a product matrix so I made one.



Sorry about the link but I wasn't sure how to get the image inline.

buddy, now it shows hot chick!

Nov '09 | iMac 21.5" C2D 3.06 Ghz | Intel 330 240GB SSD | ATI

Sep '12| Toshiba 14" 1366 x 768! | i5 3rd Gen 6GB| Intel x25-m 120GB SSD | Win 7|  Viewsonic VX2255wmb 22" LCD
iPhone 4S| iPad 2 wifi

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Nov '09 | iMac 21.5" C2D 3.06 Ghz | Intel 330 240GB SSD | ATI

Sep '12| Toshiba 14" 1366 x 768! | i5 3rd Gen 6GB| Intel x25-m 120GB SSD | Win 7|  Viewsonic VX2255wmb 22" LCD
iPhone 4S| iPad 2 wifi

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post #178 of 314
9/27/07 at 7:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by troberts View Post

I did not see a product matrix so I made one.



Sorry about the link but I wasn't sure how to get the image inline.

You did it right. The problem is some/most forum sites will block dynamic urls from being an image in the IMG tag and just show them as links. Allowing php image links is some kind of vulnerability or something.

It is kinda funny that it is a picture of a chick.
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post #179 of 314
9/27/07 at 8:43pm
This thread is almost 11 years old. Why on earth did you dig it back up?
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post #180 of 314
9/28/07 at 6:13am
I think I figured it out. The image is small when I previewed the post so hopefully it will be bigger when I actually post. I did not see the hot chick that was mentioned so I reset Safari and deleted all images of the matrix then clicked my link and saw her. I believe the hot chick is Alyson Hannigan.

I used Pages to create this chart and then I did a shift-command-4 to select what I wanted to capture. I opened it in Preview and saved it as a JPEG image because imagevenue does not host PNG images.

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post #181 of 314
9/28/07 at 9:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Electric Monk View Post

( ... )
Screen Resolution

Ok the iPhone has a 3.5" screen at 480x320, 163 dpi. If we go for a 7" screen, that is literally doubling the size of the iPhone, we get a resolution of 960x640.

Late model Newton's used a 6" screen, but Newton II would be more screen on the body then a MessagePad 2100 so a similar sized device overall.

I think that's too low a resolution as I consider 1024x768 to be pretty much the bottom floor if Newton II is to be usable. However I don't think we're limited to 163 dpi with resolution independence so what if we take a bold step forward… 247 dpi.
( ... )

I did a little mocking up to see how useful the screen would really be, assuming an iPhone-style 163 dpi screen at 1.5x the physical size (the 720x480 resolution given in the original post). Viewing the same page from a pdf ebook on an iPhone vs. an iSlate/Son of Newton device yields something like this:




So even at the same pixel density as the iPhone, the bigger screen clearly yields a huge benefit.

See the rest of the post here:
http://wowio.wordpress.com/2007/09/27/islate-vs-iphone-a-clear-reading-advantage/


........
Gerry Manacsa
wowio.wordpress.com
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post #182 of 314
9/28/07 at 10:02am
Thanks for that insight
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post #183 of 314
9/28/07 at 11:31am
Remember when all business people had some version of the Franklin Planner (the PDAs made it obsolete) but was the perfect size for meetings plus the leather case had room for all the other stuff (busn cards, receipts, plane tickets, pens, ...) . About the Newton's useable surface is the size it needs to be to write/type with and read the screen. Not a little tiny screen of a PDA. This would easily be something you could carry with you to the job site, meetings, in a grocery store, mall... and still look business like. (You wouldn't walk around with a mini-laptop type device under your arm?) The PDAs of today still-quite-dont give you the free form of a planner but the other capabilities such as in the Blackberry and Palm pilots of today made up for it. The Newton gave you the free form of a planner even for its old technology of the day but got passed up by the Palms and Blackberry because it was cancelled. If you have seriously used a Newton, the PDAs of today still cant beat its user interface. With a Newton built on today's technology there would be nothing that could come close.
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post #184 of 314
9/28/07 at 11:38am
Say we now have a PDA thing with OS 8.7

Apple retrofits their old OS 8.6 for a PDA, perhaps makes it more compatible with OS X (and make it more OSX like too), and a touch screen.
You have a large number of 3rd party softwares out there already, and these companies can now re-sell older obsolete software.

True, Apple would never do this. OS 8.6 looks so... 1990's, and wouldn't fit with the whole Leapord idea.
OS 8.6 did have its own set of bugs and such.


I don't know, I had a MacIIsi which had the same processor as today's current TI-89 calculator. Just goes to show, we can put those macs into a much more portable unit these days, and relive some of the old software and such, get a second coming of the stone age. I may be crazy, but its an idea.

(And yes, you can tell me there is BasliskII for these very needs... and personally, I want a decent 68k emulator for my PocketPC, or heck, lets put it on the iPhone too!)
Go Linux, Choose a Flavor!
"I aim to misbehave"
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Go Linux, Choose a Flavor!
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post #185 of 314
9/28/07 at 1:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by camroidv27 View Post

Say we now have a PDA thing with OS 8.7

Apple retrofits their old OS 8.6 for a PDA, perhaps makes it more compatible with OS X (and make it more OSX like too), and a touch screen.
You have a large number of 3rd party softwares out there already, and these companies can now re-sell older obsolete software.

True, Apple would never do this. OS 8.6 looks so... 1990's, and wouldn't fit with the whole Leapord idea.
OS 8.6 did have its own set of bugs and such.


I don't know, I had a MacIIsi which had the same processor as today's current TI-89 calculator. Just goes to show, we can put those macs into a much more portable unit these days, and relive some of the old software and such, get a second coming of the stone age. I may be crazy, but its an idea.

(And yes, you can tell me there is BasliskII for these very needs... and personally, I want a decent 68k emulator for my PocketPC, or heck, lets put it on the iPhone too!)

Why why why would you want to go back to OS 8.6 with it's lack of protected memory, entire lack of modern applications, the fact that there are viruses for it, etc etc.

No, slimmed down OS X is the future for mobile devices.
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post #186 of 314
9/28/07 at 7:47pm
This is the dummest idea I've heard since the iPhone was announced.

Nobody needs a PDA anymore. That's what a smartphone is!

Increase the functionality of the iPhone. A PDA is like a computer without internet; WAY limited and boring.

What Apple should do IMO is make a CAR COMPUTER. The screen would be about the size of this supposed PDA, and the touch feature would work nicely. Screw DVDs, this could sync to iTunes and play music and video off the built-in hard disk. Or have a slot for actually loading your iPod/iPhone into the unit itself and it reads off that unit/uses the iPhone features for internet connectivity and hands-free communications.
MacMini, MacBook, iPhone 4, AppleTV, Time Capsule.
Mac user since 1996 ("The Dark Days")
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MacMini, MacBook, iPhone 4, AppleTV, Time Capsule.
Mac user since 1996 ("The Dark Days")
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post #187 of 314
9/28/07 at 9:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by IHateRegistering View Post

This is the dummest idea I've heard since the iPhone was announced.

Nobody needs a PDA anymore. That's what a smartphone is!

Increase the functionality of the iPhone. A PDA is like a computer without internet; WAY limited and boring.

PDAs have had internet capability for quite some time. My '04 Tapwave has a web browser and can browse using Internet over Bluetooth or WiFi. Seemingly any Palm OS device with an SDIO slot can accept a WiFi card, a lot of units offered WiFi built-in before my Tapwave was available too, both PalmOS and Windows Mobile/CE/whatever. Safari is generally better though.

But in a sense, you are right, smartphones are where that functionality is now, either PDAs grew to add phone capability or phones added PDA capability, the lines have blurred. PDAs really didn't die, they just morphed. It's kind of a continuum. It looks like Apple is trying to position iPhone outside of that continuum, but the harder I've heard it argued, the more contrived that positioning seems to be.
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post #188 of 314
9/28/07 at 11:17pm
The original 2100 was and is an instrument to behold. It recognized my handwriting and still does. It faxes from anywhere in the world, It sits on my desk and dials my desk phone. It uses works with spreadsheets and word type files. It finds any word or name in under 1/10th of a second. A New Newton that combines the Iphone that I have with all these features in a screen that is 60% larger that the iphone would work just fine and still fit in my shirt or coat pocket and would be extremely great as a business and personal tool. It still needs a bluetooth driver to print whatever we now find on the Iphone. The Iphone sorely needs a print feature through wifi or bluetooth. It doesn't make sense that it cannot talk to 802n device printers. Let us hope that a new ApplePad will come to fruition with larger Sys. 10 system. Apple still has the rights to all the functions and has the capability to use them.
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post #189 of 314
9/29/07 at 3:15am
My dream computer form factor/concept has always (well, since the concept came to birth in early laptops and the duo) been what the OQO does elegantly (at least design wise) in its newest iteration: you bring your "core computer" with you and dock the thing with a dock housing DVD burner/monitor/keyboard/usb/whatever you might need at home/work etc... But I can't see that coming any time soon from Apple, sadly, and a system switch is not an option for me (not to forget the hefty price tag of said OQO system).
I wouldn't want a keyboard bolted on, though. I'd personally like to see that as a bluetooth option instead, but that's me. Well, one can always dream, no?
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post #190 of 314
9/29/07 at 4:08am
Here's my first post.

This would be my dream mac for home/entertainment purposes. I want 20!
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post #191 of 314
9/29/07 at 9:34am
Why would this device need a home button? People are obsessed with this home button business.

DaHarder just got banned. Let's crack open the champagne.

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post #192 of 314
9/29/07 at 10:13am
I believe at this size of a device it cannot be concieved of as a PDA. I think of it in terms of a PDD- a personal digital device. With a large flash memory core and enough of a processor we may even get a reduced iLife on it. I don't see it as have any disk drives but with high speed USB and FireWire I could use it as a small portable that can be connected to my desktop for heavy processing. A replacement for the legal tablet wiith killer apps. No more laptops in the classroom or boardroom. With WiFi and ssh I can move files to and from my desktop.
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post #193 of 314
9/29/07 at 2:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackSummerNight View Post

This is why the iPhone and iPod touch is limited and Apple doesn't want you to put your own 3rd party apps on it. They have a PDA they want to push, and if some developer is writing apps that will do everything that this PDA offers it will equal low PDA sells. Just my .02.

I think you have hit the nail on the head, well I have no plans on buying a separate device as a PDA.
Since the iPhone is more than capible.

Apple is getting too greedy and turing into another microsoft.
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post #194 of 314
9/29/07 at 6:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by KG4MXV View Post


Apple is getting too greedy and turing into another microsoft.

Let's see what Apple actually comes up with before jumping to conclusions.

Personally I think it will be more of a hand held computer rather than a PDA.

When Intel release the moorestown platform for mobile devices it's anticipated that the cpus in these will be nearly as powerful as cpus today. Throw in mobile OSX (the kind in th eiPhone) and the possibilities are intriguing.

I'll reserve judgement until the device hit the street. So far Apple's done pretty well IMO.
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post #195 of 314
9/29/07 at 6:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac View Post

Let's see what Apple actually comes up with before jumping to conclusions.

Personally I think it will be more of a hand held computer rather than a PDA.

When Intel release the moorestown platform for mobile devices it's anticipated that the cpus in these will be nearly as powerful as cpus today. Throw in mobile OSX (the kind in th eiPhone) and the possibilities are intriguing.

I'll reserve judgement until the device hit the street. So far Apple's done pretty well IMO.

I was in the Apple Store in Green Hills, TN today, and I played with the iTouch for the first time. The feel of it, the thinness of it, and the ease with which the GUI allows navigation in Safari and between various elements of the OS, to me, made it feel much more like a PDA than an iPod. The glass surface was beautiful and it was easy to imagine spending more than just the time it takes to find the next track or video on it. I was thorough impressed.

I reiterate: if iCal were de-hamstrung, the iTouch would be a dream PDA. I hope, therefore, the NewNewton maintains the same (or a similar) form factor and doesn't sacrifice portability. As it stands, the iTouch screen is a nice size and the size and weight of it makes it easy to carry on a daily basis.
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post #196 of 314
9/30/07 at 10:37am
This attempt at something for everyone reminds me of automakers...a car for anyone's needs...seems to make sense...as long as they follow a business model like the Japanese/Germans & NOT Detroit!!
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post #197 of 314
9/30/07 at 1:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodneyA2 View Post

This attempt at something for everyone reminds me of automakers...a car for anyone's needs...seems to make sense...as long as they follow a business model like the Japanese/Germans & NOT Detroit!!

You're right, it does seem like that. I suppose with all the time and resources it took to write the OS for multitouch, it behooves Apple to stretch the impact as far as it will go. I, for one, will certainly slip into the niche market along with everyone else who's been waiting for an Apple-branded PDA. Call us what you will, but at least we'll all be smiling!
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post #198 of 314
10/1/07 at 7:19am
I'm visiting the US at the moment and went in to an apple store to check out the itouch and iphone. I loved them! Still, I need a better reason than cool looks and multi-touch to switch from my old Clie TH55. My trusty Sony PDA has everything I need except a phone. Granted I only have a 1Gb stick on it, but thats enough for all the mp3s, games etc that I want to carry around.

I was hoping that the itouch (I can't use an iphone in my market yet) with its contacts and calendar apps could replace the Clie as a PDA, but It can't. One store assistant even told me that the itouchs' contact or calendar app (can't remember which one) does not even accept the adding of new items. Whats the use of having the app if you can't use it? Now if this new Newton can do it I'll be there to buy it, but it does look a bit too big. It would be nice to have a true PDA/ipod/iphone in an iphone form size.
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post #199 of 314
10/1/07 at 11:57am
How about this baby docked in the middle of your dash? My dash would be in an Audi not a Benz, as their design aesthetic (and mine) is more inline with Apple's. Then again who would have paired them with AT&T? I guess all three share a similar delusion when it comes to recognizing the difference between quality and perceived quality.

Nevertheless, the possibilities are giving me wood. Full-on iTunes in the dash (including the visualizer). The ability to sync to a BT phone (preferably any BT phone) or a built-in wireless card for connection to Safari, Goolgemaps, Mail... iCal and GPS or Googlemaps could sync to get you to your appointments. While we're at it let's get some iPhone/Touch docks built into the headrests and have them all networked to sync and share media, iCal schedules for the kids etc... I think we get the picture.
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post #200 of 314
10/1/07 at 12:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by groovesmoothy

Nevertheless, the possibilities are giving me wood. Full-on iTunes in the dash (including the visualizer). The ability to sync to a BT phone (preferably any BT phone) or a built-in wireless card for connection to Safari, Goolgemaps, Mail... iCal and GPS or Googlemaps could sync to get you to your appointments. While we're at it let's get some iPhone/Touch docks built into the headrests and have them all networked to sync and share media, iCal schedules for the kids etc... I think we get the picture.

Yeah, and it syncs over-the-air via 802.11n when you pull up your driveway - dream on.

DaHarder just got banned. Let's crack open the champagne.

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