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Up next for Apple: the return of the Newton - Page 6

post #201 of 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishyesque View Post

You've been here since 2003 and have 1 post?
A little shy, are we?

He's not going to respond until 2011.
post #202 of 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by jouster View Post

He's not going to respond until 2011.

hahahahahahahahahahaha
that made me laugh out loud.
I'll wait for that day then.
post #203 of 314
"i don't get this. the iphone already does this and more, what would a larger form factor give you other than something harder to transport?"

The iPhone is not even close to a PDA! Missing some features? Yeah, like a BRICK is missing some PDA features. It doesn't have any PDA functionality at all! Yes, you can display your calendar - in READ-ONLY mode!

Have you ever USED a Newton? On a Newton you can actually update data, or enter new data. Its Agenda mode was brilliant - show both To-Do items and Calendar items on the same page. Many folks even used it as a word processor - there was no limit as to how much text you could enter.

The iPhone? It has a web browser? (sigh) So does the Nintendo DS, but nobody calls it a PDA. Get real.

I doubt this rumor is true, because Steve has made stupid statements like 'a cellphone can be your PDA' which, for anyone with a more than slightly complicated life, is absolutely stupid.
post #204 of 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by cubist View Post

The iPhone is not even close to a PDA! Missing some features? Yeah, like a BRICK is missing some PDA features. It doesn't have any PDA functionality at all! Yes, you can display your calendar - in READ-ONLY mode!

Have you ever USED a Newton?

Have you ever USED an iPhone? Actually, there is a common misconception that you cannot edit data on an iPhone. This is false. The iPhone allows for both viewing and editing calendars. I believe that you are confusing some of the read-only features with the iPod touch. I have not yet used an iPod touch although I have read that contacts at least are read-only. Can anyone confirm this?

I do agree with you that the iPhone is not ready to replace many people's PDAs just yet, and that the Newton was a truly magically device. However, since it appears as if you have not yet used an iPhone I recommend it; I am curious to hear how close you think it could be to a fully-functional PDA once you have tried it out.
Crentist?! That sounds an awful lot like *dentist.*
Maybe thats why he wanted to be a dentist!
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Crentist?! That sounds an awful lot like *dentist.*
Maybe thats why he wanted to be a dentist!
Reply
post #205 of 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by crentist

I have not yet used an iPod touch although I have read that contacts at least are read-only. Can anyone confirm this?

I think contacts can be added, just not calendar events.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #206 of 314
I might buy this. I don't have an iPhone or Touch and it looks like Apple will continue to fight 3rd party software on both devices. If this has wifi and Safari and is open I'd be tempted.

This assumes of course that Apple doesn't cripple it to prevent cannibalizing other sales. Sadly, this is a pretty big assumption lately.
post #207 of 314
I don't get it.

With the ipod touch...Apple HAS released a new PDA. All they have to do is add more functionality to it. Its got the touch pad, wifi....all it needs is some programs and bingo...the new newton.
post #208 of 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by regan View Post

I don't get it.

With the ipod touch...Apple HAS released a new PDA. All they have to do is add more functionality to it. Its got the touch pad, wifi....all it needs is some programs and bingo...the new newton.

I'm really concerned that my PDA may never come. If this Mac tablet is really as BIG as people are speculating it is, my need is smack-dab in the middle of the Touch and the Tablet.

I will only buy another portable (in addition to my MBP) if it's small enough to clip to my belt.

Until now, all I've ever wanted was a Touch-sized device with iCal capability. A video camera would be nice, but I'll buy without. If the Tablet skips over me, I think I'll be part of a pretty big crowd of disappointed people with $400 they want to spend on a PDA.
post #209 of 314
Well...I think if thats what you want(i do too)...we are safe buying the ipod touch....because all the things you want will eventually be offered with a simple software download from Apple.

The ipod touch already has all the "physical" PDA features...we just have to wait for the software.

In fact, I read an interview with Steve Jobs where he alluded to "Flash" and "email" and "calander" functions likely in the near future as a download.

I travel ALOT overseas...and was going to get an iphone....but the HORRIBLE inability to unlock the phone and use other sim cards when overseas forces you to become victim to insane roaming fees and data charges...EVEN when you aren't using your iphone! I've heard terrible horror stories about $3,000 bills.

Anyway....the ipod touch is perfect...and with more downloaded software will be a nice little PDA.

I'd like a camera too. Someday future models will get em. But basically I'd really like to see ichat on the ipod touch. The addition of being able to use a chat program would make the ipod touch become THE must have device from everyone from students to adults.

I guess they didn't include it to not piss off AT&T with its iphone contract.

That just blows. :-)
post #210 of 314
I want to be able to sync data from both my beloved Apple OS Computer here in my comfortable home and with the retarded, idiotic, cursed Windows contraption at work. I want my personal addresses and my work addresses available on my ... Newton. I want personal and work documents available where ever I am.

Newton... I still can't believe it. It's like the Galactica has found earth.

V/R,
Aries 1B

PS: I know that this post wasn't filled with blinding insight, but I don't want this thread to sink away into oblivion. I've been waiting for this thread since 1998!
"I pictured myself sitting in the shade of a leafy tree in a public park, a stylus in hand, a shiny Apple Tablet computer in my lap, and a pouty Jennifer Connelly stirring a pitcher of gimlets a...
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"I pictured myself sitting in the shade of a leafy tree in a public park, a stylus in hand, a shiny Apple Tablet computer in my lap, and a pouty Jennifer Connelly stirring a pitcher of gimlets a...
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post #211 of 314
How about up next for Apple: Updating some of their established hardware products that have been lingering.
You think Im an arrogant [expletive] who thinks hes above the law, and I think youre a slime bucket who gets most of his facts wrong. Steve Jobs
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You think Im an arrogant [expletive] who thinks hes above the law, and I think youre a slime bucket who gets most of his facts wrong. Steve Jobs
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post #212 of 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

I think contacts can be added, just not calendar events.

That's correct, although you will be able to add calendar events after the next software update.
post #213 of 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpinDrift View Post

That's correct, although you will be able to add calendar events after the next software update.

I'm ready to jump for joy about this, but I have yet to see it corroborated. Have you seen a source besides the guy who claims to have received an e-mail from the Big Cheese?
post #214 of 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by grifmx View Post

A sleek modern PDA with enough "juice" would actually be a semi-replacement for carrying a laptop. It would also be much easier to type on with human-size fingers!

The future of laptops is ultra-portable designs that don't get as hot as an oven and have sturdy flash-drives and get superb battery power. I would rather be carrying something like this while I'm traveling than a full-size laptop.

Indeed, but I think this modern PDA will keep its size down by including the technology for some type of projection keyboard. For example, one could use the touch screen for quick jobs done on the fly, but when you need to sit down and type, then you could activate the projection keyboard, perhaps by docking the device in an upright position.

There are several permutations of projection keyboards in development and even on the market that uses a laser to project a keyboard image on a surface and sense finger positions while you type. The camera is tiny.

There's even one that uses special gloves that turn your hands into both the typing device and the keyboard. You type on the keys by pressing your fingers against your thumbs in much the same way as you do on an actual keyboard. (see http://www.kittytech.com/index.html)

fletchbiz
post #215 of 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hobbes View Post

Fascinating report, but I'm really not sure exactly who this product would be for.

PDAs are currently dying - they're being wiped out by smartphones.

Apple laptops are about to get even sleeker and thinner.

The main markets would seem to be vertical markets (doctors, business users for meetings, people taking notes or needing net access while walking/working) or as an e-reader where using a notebook is impossible or a nuisance (e.g. reading on the train). But that's not what Apple is interested in. They're interested in the mass market of mainstream consumers.

So, what's the mainstream use? Why do you need one of these in addition to a computer, iPod, and/or (smart)phone?

And how many people would be willing to pay (let's say) $599 for one? Or even $499?

I'm intrigued, mind you, but I'm unsure this would find a place in the mianstream market.


I agree. What has been the problem for vertical markets and business users is that all mobile devices now are either too small like the palm size pda's and blackberries or too large like the 7" UMPC's. Thus we use laptops and subnotebooks even though most would rather have a pocket laptop. The gap that this type of device should be designed to fill is a simple computer that can have the largest screen and keyboard that would still fit into typical suit and sport coats jacket inside pockets. If this ran any desktop application I as a business person using primarily MS devices would buy one in a heart beat and pay anywhere from $700 to $1800 for one. Most would probably feel a price about $1000 would be a good price point.
post #216 of 314
"Projection keyboard"

cool thought but just like the pen input and thumb input; it is not that mainstream. Technology needs to make our lives easier. The mainstream market already prefers a touch type keyboard. The market for this can be huge and it is the many whom want to shed a laptop. Thus that market already prefers and uses touch type keyboards so trying to re-invent the wheel with a technology not perfected nor desired yet is not a good idea. Just keep it simple. Did you know with all our advancements in computers there has yet to be a pocket laptop with a touch type keyboard that could run dekstop programs? Never. Thus keep it simple and Apple could just blow away market share of typical MS laptops for all the more business users that would rather the mobility and do not need a super fast computer.
post #217 of 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by mobilesalesman View Post

I agree. What has been the problem for vertical markets and business users is that all mobile devices now are either too small like the palm size pda's and blackberries or too large like the 7" UMPC's.

That I would agree with.
Quote:

Thus we use laptops and subnotebooks even though most would rather have a pocket laptop. The gap that this type of device should be designed to fill is a simple computer that can have the largest screen and keyboard that would still fit into typical suit and sport coats jacket inside pockets. If this ran any desktop application I as a business person using primarily MS devices would buy one in a heart beat and pay anywhere from $700 to $1800 for one. Most would probably feel a price about $1000 would be a good price point.

This is where I disagree. The device simply can not be more expensive than the generic laptops that businesses buy for their employees. Thus we are talking about something that begins at $250. Or to put it in another way, this would be a device in the same class as the current Touch. The primary differences would be different I/O.

I use the word 'Begin' above very deliberately as the important thing is that this sort of device needs optional capabilities. For example some business might not want a cell capability in the device, while others would very much like such. Obviously capabilities add to the price.

Thanks
Dave
post #218 of 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

That I would agree with.

This is where I disagree. The device simply can not be more expensive than the generic laptops that businesses buy for their employees. Thus we are talking about something that begins at $250. Or to put it in another way, this would be a device in the same class as the current Touch. The primary differences would be different I/O.

I use the word 'Begin' above very deliberately as the important thing is that this sort of device needs optional capabilities. For example some business might not want a cell capability in the device, while others would very much like such. Obviously capabilities add to the price.

Thanks
Dave


What I see most companies spend for their sale and managers is often $1000-$2000. Most people in marketing or management also have the ability to decide what they want to buy. For me I think anywhere under $1500 would be a no brainer for a pocket laptop. It would be great to see something like that cheap but I doubt it would go for prices as low as $250 maybe $500? At 500 that would sell like crazy as that is so cheap and so much more mobile and practical in the field. At that price it would be sold all the way down to blue collar mobile workers.
post #219 of 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clive At Five View Post

Excuse me? Did you say 2012? 2TB?!?!

...two full cycles of Moore's Law units 2012... putting us at 64GB... 128GB at the very best. We can expect 2TB flash by 2020, maybe.

Can you say 2009?

A company called Adtron came out with a 160GB a year ago!
http://www.adtron.com/newsroom/25fb-...tate-Disk.html

A company called BitMicro Networks came out with a 416GB drive a little while ago
http://www.bitmicro.com/press_news_r...s_20071023.php

then plans to release an 832GB model by the fall.
http://www.bitmicro.com/press_news_r...s_20080107.php

2020? You'll barely be able to find a 2TB flash drive on eBay it will be so outdated by then.
post #220 of 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by mauricev View Post

Can you say 2009?

A company called Adtron came out with a 160GB a year ago!
http://www.adtron.com/newsroom/25fb-...tate-Disk.html

A company called BitMicro Networks came out with a 416GB drive a little while ago
http://www.bitmicro.com/press_news_r...s_20071023.php

then plans to release an 832GB model by the fall.
http://www.bitmicro.com/press_news_r...s_20080107.php

2020? You'll barely be able to find a 2TB flash drive on eBay it will be so outdated by then.

I think Clive's statement holds more than your examples do, because your examples are highly specialized and at unobtanium pricing. The cost/GB of flash seems to drop in half every year. 64GB should retail at $600 in Jan 2009. $300 in Jan 2010 $150 in 2011, $75 in 2012. Following the progression, 2TB should be about a $10 thumb drive in 2020, assuming the progression holds, there's no apocalypse and we don't just transfer stuff over the internet instead of carrying it around.
post #221 of 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

I think Clive's statement holds more than your examples do, because your examples are highly specialized and at unobtanium pricing. The cost/GB of flash seems to drop in half every year. 64GB should retail at $600 in Jan 2009. $300 in Jan 2010 $150 in 2011, $75 in 2012. Following the progression, 2TB should be about a $10 thumb drive in 2020, assuming the progression holds, there's no apocalypse and we don't just transfer stuff over the internet instead of carrying it around.

His examples seem to be in reference to the availability of the technology, not really the pricing. I think he's misjudging how fast technology develops. My examples show that in a few years, 2TB will be doable. But your pricing estimate also seems to disagree with him. Remember he's saying that it just may be available in 2020 where you have them not just being available but at prices way, way lower than what 64GB is now.
post #222 of 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by mauricev View Post

His examples seem to be in reference to the availability of the technology, not really the pricing. I think he's misjudging how fast technology develops. My examples show that in a few years, 2TB will be doable. But your pricing estimate also seems to disagree with him. Remember he's saying that it just may be available in 2020 where you have them not just being available but at prices way, way lower than what 64GB is now.

I think we're both taking Clive out of context. They were talking about how much would be put into an iPod touch, which is different than a generic solid state drive. He has the silicon fab technology right, but that doesn't reflect the price of those chips. What's available in iPods seems to be doubling every two years.
post #223 of 314
I have owned various PDA devices over the years. Psion were very good as a "tiny laptop with full keyboard" but the Palm devices did all they needed to do, and did it well. Wasn't this created by ex-Newton people? Do people want a PDA without a telephone? That is the big question.

I think the iPod touch could, with a little bit of updated software, be even better than a Palm device. It's a music a video player that is capable of also being a PDA.

Must admit, I was expecting 32GB at Macworld. Even so, if the next generation Touch added an SD slot, the problem is solved.
post #224 of 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathal View Post

I have owned various PDA devices over the years. Psion were very good as a "tiny laptop with full keyboard" but the Palm devices did all they needed to do, and did it well. Wasn't this created by ex-Newton people? Do people want a PDA without a telephone? That is the big question.

I'm sure there's always a demand, but it's not a growing market. Most users either want a phone device in it or have resigned themselves to having a phone in it.

Quote:
I think the iPod touch could, with a little bit of updated software, be even better than a Palm device. It's a music a video player that is capable of also being a PDA.

More than capable, all the necessary hardware is there and the software is mostly there. I think once the SDK is available, it should do just about everything a PDA can.

Quote:
Must admit, I was expecting 32GB at Macworld. Even so, if the next generation Touch added an SD slot, the problem is solved.

Unfortunately, Apple has never had a slot in any of its handheld devices since the Newton. 32GB is too soon. I don't think it's reasonable to expect a hardware update for an iPod except in the fall, that's when Apple has done almost all of its iPod updates in the last four years. iPhone updates might be separate though.
post #225 of 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

They were talking about how much would be put into an iPod touch, which is different than a generic solid state drive. What's available in iPods seems to be doubling every two years.

Yeah, there is probably no compelling reason to make it that gargantuan. We may never even see that much in an "iPod" because it may never need it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

He has the silicon fab technology right

My point is that that this is where he is understimating the pace of technological development. How could we possibly predict what silicon fab technology will be like in 12 years? Lots of innovations may come our way between now and then that could enable us to easily do cheap high-capacity SSDs then. For example, in 1996, with multigigabyte hard drives just appearing, were we predicting the advent of perpendicular recording and terabyte drives today (and at around the same cost)?
post #226 of 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by mauricev View Post

My point is that that this is where he is understimating the pace of technological development. How could we possibly predict what silicon fab technology will be like in 12 years? Lots of innovations may come our way between now and then that could enable us to easily do cheap high-capacity SSDs then.

No he's not. The number of transistors that can be laid down in a given area doubles about every 18 months. This figure is real and has not changed much in the last four decades. It's about the only thing that's held reasonably constant in all this time.
post #227 of 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

No he's not. The number of transistors that can be laid down in a given area doubles about every 18 months. This figure is real and has not changed much in the last four decades. It's about the only thing that's held reasonably constant in all this time.

Was he making claims about the number of transistors or specifically the capacity increase in SSDs? You seem to be making the claim that there is a one-to-one between them that will not only hold until then, but be relevant then as well. I'm not sure that was his underlying thinking or not. But I'm saying whatever the rationale for his claim, I think it's a big underestimation.
post #228 of 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by mauricev View Post

Was he making claims about the number of transistors or specifically the capacity increase in SSDs? You seem to be making the claim that there is a one-to-one between them that will not only hold until then, but be relevant then as well. I'm not sure that was his underlying thinking or not. But I'm saying whatever the rationale for his claim, I think it's a big underestimation.

There's a direct relation. A flash memory bit needs a certain number of transistors. The way it's done now is pretty efficient, I'm not sure if more bits per transistor can be had.
post #229 of 314
I don't expect this to be a simple PDA. Sure, it will have what the standard PDA functions are: contacts, notes, calendar, ect. It will also have the more high end PDA functions: bluetooth, wifi, web browsing, email, ect. I also expect a sizeable flash drive like the iPod touch (and probably a way to play MP3s, everything's gotta play MP3s).

I think a good place to see it starting from is the Palm TX. That is Palm's current top of the line, non phone PDA, currently $299. I suspect this thing will be larger (somewhere between 5.25 and 7"), have at least a multitouch display (the option to use a pen with that for notetaking and drawing would be great but a pipe dream), use its bluetooth to pair with the Apple Wireless Keyboard (for extended document editing, as I can't imagine using a touch screen keyboard for THAT long) and have a variation of OSX like the iPhone/iPod touch but also similar to the Mac OSX, depending on it's orientation (ie-if you have it vertical or laid down, it is in touch mode, but if you have it horizontal, it appears more like a desktop but with no mouse cursor). As I have said in other threads, this thing would sync with your computer like a PDA but really, it would be more powerful that most PDAs. Perhaps with that new Intel chip mentioned durring CES. Pure random speculation but I think this could all be possible.

If it did have an optional wacom style pen input (BIIIG if), then it will at least use InkWell which all Macs still have. I also hope for some sort of note taking set up where you can jot notes down durring a meeting, as well as some way to do drawings or sketches that can be imported into Photoshop. Hell, I would love it if this could replace my sketchbook. I don't expect this but it would be a nice way to appeal to artists, doctors, and other people who need to write/draw on the computer on the go. If Apple didn't, it cuts out a large user base who would otherwise be interested in this product.
The iSlate cometh
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The iSlate cometh
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post #230 of 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

There's a direct relation. A flash memory bit needs a certain number of transistors. The way it's done now is pretty efficient, I'm not sure if more bits per transistor can be had.

Well, yeah, I guess those companies I referenced must already found a way to pack a lot of them in a 2.5' factor. As for more bits per transistor (or even whether it can be done without transistors), we'll probably just have to wait for 2020.
post #231 of 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by mauricev View Post

found a way to pack a lot of them in a 2.5' factor

I would imagine you could fit more than anyone really needs in the two & a half foot form factor you reference

;^p
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post #232 of 314
The ipod touch can be the pda for Apple, this new device will run a full Mac OS and have new multi touch technology.
post #233 of 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by mobilesalesman View Post

What I see most companies spend for their sale and managers is often $1000-$2000. Most people in marketing or management also have the ability to decide what they want to buy. For me I think anywhere under $1500 would be a no brainer for a pocket laptop. It would be great to see something like that cheap but I doubt it would go for prices as low as $250 maybe $500? At 500 that would sell like crazy as that is so cheap and so much more mobile and practical in the field. At that price it would be sold all the way down to blue collar mobile workers.

Well to be perfectly frank you must be associating with companies that have many many excess dollars to piss away. Where I work they buy everybody the cheapest Dells that they can squeeze out of the company. That is slow poorly configured laptops with screens that look like the quality expected form a laptop 10 years ago. If they are being charged more that $400 dollars for them I'd be very surprised. What really hurts is that one can go to just about any computer dealer in town and get a better laptop (much better screen) for that amount of money.

In any event I suspect that we are talking about different classes of devices here. what many of us imagine is a device larger than a Touch but no larger than the form factor of the old Newton. In any case thinner than the old Newton. The idea being to bring to the user a larger screen than provided by the Touch and a bit more in the way of I/O capability. All this to better support user apps beyond the media player functionality.

It should be noted that the iPhone and Touch family are not far off the mark as they are. It is really the case of having the right size screen, a bit more RAM, I/O (Bluetooth and USB) and possibly more processing power. Well that and a slot for the RF communications method of your choice, that is Cell or WiMax or whatever.

Dave
post #234 of 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathal View Post

I have owned various PDA devices over the years. Psion were very good as a "tiny laptop with full keyboard" but the Palm devices did all they needed to do, and did it well. Wasn't this created by ex-Newton people? Do people want a PDA without a telephone? That is the big question.

Well I think the sales of the Touch pretty much answer that question. For some people there are good reasons to keep such separated. One of those reasons is the stupid contracts you have to get involved in if you buy a iPhone a phone by the way that you supposedly own outright.

I don't exactly place myself in the above category, rather I want alternatives. This is why I'm looking of a Newton Touch upgrade that allows me to choose from standard Cell, WiMax, LTE or whatever Google comes up with.

One way to do that is through an expansion card. The other way is through a software defined Radio. Frankly I'd take either if it meant that I could carry around one device and got the service I wanted. At this moment in time IF I Could find a device that supported WiMaX and Skype type communications I'd drop my cell phone pretty quick.
Quote:

I think the iPod touch could, with a little bit of updated software, be even better than a Palm device. It's a music a video player that is capable of also being a PDA.

I think that is in the process of happening as we speak. The Touch & IPhone are certainly very attractive as it is now. More apps will help tremendously. Even more so a larger screen an a few more features.
Quote:

Must admit, I was expecting 32GB at Macworld. Even so, if the next generation Touch added an SD slot, the problem is solved.

Well I was more or less in the same boat but I've extended the time of expectation to cover the delivery of the SDK. Mainly because I see a big marketing opportunity here. Well that and some of Apples other initiatives demand better hardware platforms.

As to an SD slot that is something to consider. But for Newton 2 I very much want to see the flexible RF capability alluded to above first. Give me a Newton 2 that can do WiMax and I'd be very happy indeed. Apple should certainly add expansion capability if they can but I want optional communications. Optional communications that doesn't involve lengthy contracts with Cell Phone companies. This shouldn't be take to exclude WiFi as I think that is a given, just that WiFi just isn't all that wide spread and I spend a good portion of my day where there is no Wifi at all.

Dave
post #235 of 314
I just want an Apple slate tablet, done as only Apple would be able to do…

But I will buy a ModBook if I have to, I would just rather not have to…

I mean come on, after seeing that Apple has the ability to put out a totally bitching multi-touch slate tablet, I am gonna spend my hard earned cash on a MacBook & a Wacom tablet hacked into most definitely non-Apple chassis?!? And pay through the nose for it?!? I think not…

Give me a 17" hi-rez multi-touch/stylus slate tablet that runs the full version of OS X and all of it's included apps; that lets me run iLife, iWork & Remote Desktop; that lets me choose how I want to connect to the Internet (EDGE, WiMax, WiFi, 3G, etc.). Let me drop it into a docking stand for charging; let me use BlueTooth keyboards, trackpads (multi-touch even) & mice with it; let me use it as a desktop replacement. That I will buy in a heartbeat, and I won't feel bad about paying more than the ModBook for it…

Oh, and I'll take one 8" Newton 2 also…

And an iPhone nano…

;^p
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post #236 of 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRonin View Post

I just want an Apple slate tablet, done as only Apple would be able to do…

But I will buy a ModBook if I have to, I would just rather not have to…

I mean come on, after seeing that Apple has the ability to put out a totally bitching multi-touch slate tablet, I am gonna spend my hard earned cash on a MacBook & a Wacom tablet hacked into most definitely non-Apple chassis?!? And pay through the nose for it?!? I think not…

Give me a 17" hi-rez multi-touch/stylus slate tablet that runs the full version of OS X and all of it's included apps; that lets me run iLife, iWork & Remote Desktop; that lets me choose how I want to connect to the Internet (EDGE, WiMax, WiFi, 3G, etc.). Let me drop it into a docking stand for charging; let me use BlueTooth keyboards, trackpads (multi-touch even) & mice with it; let me use it as a desktop replacement. That I will buy in a heartbeat, and I won't feel bad about paying more than the ModBook for it…

Oh, and I'll take one 8" Newton 2 also…

And an iPhone nano…

;^p

Those larger tablet may come later in 2009 (yes 2009), but expect the first one to be smaller than 17". And an iPhone nano? That ones a given.

Although the design will likely differ a bit from this, I think we are heading in this direction:



nano will definitely require some sort of IM app, even a third party one. That's what the kids dig these days.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #237 of 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Those larger tablet may come later in 2009 (yes 2009), but expect the first one to be smaller than 17". And an iPhone nano? That ones a given.

Although the design will likely differ a bit from this, I think we are heading in this direction:



nano will definitely require some sort of IM app, even a third party one. That's what the kids dig these days.

I would totally go for that iPhone nano…!

Side question, will we be using our iPhones & iPhone nanos as wireless tethers for our tablets, or will the tablets have the option of cell capabilities for data when out of WiFi range? And if they have cell capabilities, will it be limited to data connection, or will you be able to have your tablet in your bag and a BlueTooth earpiece/mic combo doing voice recognition dialing as needed for making and taking calls?

I realize the first Apple tablets will be smaller than 17", probably 13.3" like the MacBooks they will replace. Yes, replace. Add a docking station which charges the tablet while setting it upright on the desktop like a regular monitor. Drop a BlueTooth keyboard & multi-touch trackpad unit in front of that and you have a desktop replacement. Have an Ives designed industrial chic version of a plate holder to fold up and toss in your bag with the tablet & keyboard, pull out what you want when you need it…

I expect the 8" Newton 2 at WWDC '08 (plenty of time after the SDK is released in Feb. for the developers to write a nice collection of apps to push on the Newton 2, or will the Newton 2 actually run the full OS X?) and the 13.3" tablet no later than MacWorld 2009. Total replacement of traditional laptops with slate tablets and accessory keyboards/multi-touch trackpads (thus making a traditional laptop, only different; add in the patented iMac-esque docking station and tablets have just replaced the all-in-one lineup also!) by MacWorld 2010…

Yes Virginia, they will still make Mac Pros & Xserves for those who need them…

A set-top box, two phones, an assortment of iPods, four tablets, two or three display docking stations (matching number & size with the regular displays made for the Mac Pro), the aforementioned Mac Pro & the Xserve/XRAID rounds out the Apple product lineup. Still nice and trim, not a zillion models like Dull, er, Dell…

Where is kormac77…?!?

;^p
Late 2009 Unibody MacBook (modified)
2.26GHz Core 2 Duo CPU/8GB RAM/60GB SSD/500GB HDD
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Late 2009 Unibody MacBook (modified)
2.26GHz Core 2 Duo CPU/8GB RAM/60GB SSD/500GB HDD
SuperDrive delete
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post #238 of 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRonin View Post

I would totally go for that iPhone nano!

I wouldn't go for it my self, at least right now, but Apple very much needs something like that in their line up. Frankly I'd be surprised if they kept the same user interface, I'm not convinced that it would scale down well.
Quote:

Side question, will we be using our iPhones & iPhone nanos as wireless tethers for our tablets, or will the tablets have the option of cell capabilities for data when out of WiFi range? And if they have cell capabilities, will it be limited to data connection, or will you be able to have your tablet in your bag and a BlueTooth earpiece/mic combo doing voice recognition dialing as needed for making and taking calls?

You ask that question like you believe that people on this forum actually know!

I don't but I can say what I'd like to see. I'd like to see a tablet that supports WiFi, as I suspect that every body else does. But I'd also like a tablet that is flexible in the other RF technologies.

By this I mean the option of Cell, WiMaX or what ever else pops up. Google anyone? The problem is pretty clear in that having tie ins to just one technology makes you a slave to really bad business practices. The only way to improve that is to have available to you competition that takes a different approach to the customer. That is the hope I see in WiMax and Google.

As to taking calls I'm so feed up with the phone company that I'm likely to go to a platform that supported Skype and keep the Cell as a separate cheap appliance. I know that is somewhat backtracking as in the past I've advocated a one device does all approach. But after getting my latest land line bill I'm leaning to keeping diversity in suppliers. Having a pay as you go cell phone is actually very economical if most of your communications takes place via other means.
Quote:

I realize the first Apple tablets will be smaller than 17", probably 13.3" like the MacBooks they will replace. Yes, replace. Add a docking station which charges the tablet while setting it upright on the desktop like a regular monitor. Drop a BlueTooth keyboard & multi-touch trackpad unit in front of that and you have a desktop replacement. Have an Ives designed industrial chic version of a plate holder to fold up and toss in your bag with the tablet & keyboard, pull out what you want when you need it

No not replace! The whole point of a tablet device is that it serves an entirely different market than a laptop. Sure there is some cross over just as a laptop crosses over into desktop territory. I feel secure in saying though that most of us in the market for a Tablet will not be using in like a laptop.

In any event a 13" device is the wrong approach. Apple needs to start at the Touch and work up in size. At least one device that remains pocketable and of course Newton 2 which will be very slightly too large for the pocket.
Quote:

I expect the 8" Newton 2 at WWDC '08 (plenty of time after the SDK is released in Feb. for the developers to write a nice collection of apps to push on the Newton 2, or will the Newton 2 actually run the full OS X?) and the 13.3" tablet no later than MacWorld 2009. Total replacement of traditional laptops with slate tablets and accessory keyboards/multi-touch trackpads (thus making a traditional laptop, only different; add in the patented iMac-esque docking station and tablets have just replaced the all-in-one lineup also!) by MacWorld 2010

Certainly doable to an extent but what is the point in having a 13 inch hand held device. Unless you where born with it, it would be a pain to carry around, much less use hand held. The key to sizing tablets is their usability hand held, if the size causes awkward handling then it is a dead product.

The other issue is the idea that people will want to carry around bluetooth keyboards for such devices. Really get a grip with that idea. If you need a keyboard then you have a need for a laptop not a tablet. Occasional use is one thing but to try to set yourself up to operate normally like that is questionable at best.
Quote:

Yes Virginia, they will still make Mac Pros & Xserves for those who need them

They will make laptops too as they address a need that tablets don't.
Quote:

A set-top box, two phones, an assortment of iPods, four tablets, two or three display docking stations (matching number & size with the regular displays made for the Mac Pro), the aforementioned Mac Pro & the Xserve/XRAID rounds out the Apple product lineup. Still nice and trim, not a zillion models like Dull, er, Dell

I realize the economy is going into a depression but why would you want to kill apple with such limited products? In fact the best way to survive an economic depression is to have products that people want to buy no matter what. Think about backed beans! The best thing Apple can do now, to be prepared for the next few years, is to offer up economical products that people can't do without. Because of the consumer products orientation that means the have to innovate.
Quote:

Where is kormac77?!?

;^p

Your post is very interesting but I think you mis some very important concepts with respect to tablet devices. Especially in the context of the coming economic collapse. Apple needs products that offer the consumer value and alternatives to high priced services of the past. One of these would be a tablet device that can easily handle Skype type communications. One of the short comings of the current Touch is that it has no audio input which is something Apple needs to address in any tablet it produces. People will be demanding as much functionality in as cheap a platform as is possible. This simply due to the reality of the economy and in part old world communications businesses unwillingness to alter their business model to compete.

Dave
post #239 of 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

I wouldn't go for it my self, at least right now, but Apple very much needs something like that in their line up. Frankly I'd be surprised if they kept the same user interface, I'm not convinced that it would scale down well.

You ask that question like you believe that people on this forum actually know!

I don't but I can say what I'd like to see. I'd like to see a tablet that supports WiFi, as I suspect that every body else does. But I'd also like a tablet that is flexible in the other RF technologies.

By this I mean the option of Cell, WiMaX or what ever else pops up. Google anyone? The problem is pretty clear in that having tie ins to just one technology makes you a slave to really bad business practices. The only way to improve that is to have available to you competition that takes a different approach to the customer. That is the hope I see in WiMax and Google.

As to taking calls I'm so feed up with the phone company that I'm likely to go to a platform that supported Skype and keep the Cell as a separate cheap appliance. I know that is somewhat backtracking as in the past I've advocated a one device does all approach. But after getting my latest land line bill I'm leaning to keeping diversity in suppliers. Having a pay as you go cell phone is actually very economical if most of your communications takes place via other means.

No not replace! The whole point of a tablet device is that it serves an entirely different market than a laptop. Sure there is some cross over just as a laptop crosses over into desktop territory. I feel secure in saying though that most of us in the market for a Tablet will not be using in like a laptop.

In any event a 13" device is the wrong approach. Apple needs to start at the Touch and work up in size. At least one device that remains pocketable and of course Newton 2 which will be very slightly too large for the pocket.

Certainly doable to an extent but what is the point in having a 13 inch hand held device. Unless you where born with it, it would be a pain to carry around, much less use hand held. The key to sizing tablets is their usability hand held, if the size causes awkward handling then it is a dead product.

The other issue is the idea that people will want to carry around bluetooth keyboards for such devices. Really get a grip with that idea. If you need a keyboard then you have a need for a laptop not a tablet. Occasional use is one thing but to try to set yourself up to operate normally like that is questionable at best.

They will make laptops too as they address a need that tablets don't.

I realize the economy is going into a depression but why would you want to kill apple with such limited products? In fact the best way to survive an economic depression is to have products that people want to buy no matter what. Think about backed beans! The best thing Apple can do now, to be prepared for the next few years, is to offer up economical products that people can't do without. Because of the consumer products orientation that means the have to innovate.


Your post is very interesting but I think you mis some very important concepts with respect to tablet devices. Especially in the context of the coming economic collapse. Apple needs products that offer the consumer value and alternatives to high priced services of the past. One of these would be a tablet device that can easily handle Skype type communications. One of the short comings of the current Touch is that it has no audio input which is something Apple needs to address in any tablet it produces. People will be demanding as much functionality in as cheap a platform as is possible. This simply due to the reality of the economy and in part old world communications businesses unwillingness to alter their business model to compete.

Dave


Depression? Economic collapse? Um...over react much? We are hitting a recession, we have no reason to believe that it is going to get THAT bad. Times will get a little tougher for a while but with the right steps and actions, it wont last longer than 6 months or so.
The iSlate cometh
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The iSlate cometh
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post #240 of 314
I think with the abilities of devices like the Iphone and other mobile phone devices, that rather than a new Newton it should be more of a new pocket laptop instead. The Newton never really did well for three basic reasons, high price and it was not small enough to be pocket size, and it was pen input only. I think a new Newton is not realistic as there are already pocket pc's and if they make it non jacket size it would suffer the same fate as the 7" umpc's

Now with the Iphone it fills the ultra small gizmo type featured phone. What is missing is a pocket laptop that is pocket size, specifically jacket pocket size. Somthing larger that has the largest touch type keyboard and screen yet will still fit into a jacket pocket. I know some think that touch input is great but not for real computer usage unless it is a large tablet. There are two markets for new Apple devices.

One is jacket size computer with a built in touch type keyboard that would be great to have touch type to replace a mouse input and designed around something about 4" x 7" and as thin as possible. The main focus is to provide the most generous keyboard and screen yet still be jacket pocket size for those on the go as the primary computer. That has a huge market for most mobile business people.

The other market is the larger tablet which then could be touch input only but I do not think the mass market really wants that type of device yet. It is ok for a gadget phone but not a full fledged computer as the reality is a keyboard is just easier and prefered by most.
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