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Up next for Apple: the return of the Newton - Page 8

post #281 of 314
7/22/08 at 7:10am
Hi,

I apologize if this has been discussed, but my poor memory places the original Newton being released in 1998. I worked for Apple as a Service Technician from 92-99, and I believe it was released in July of 98 because I took my brand new Newton into the Continental Divide when I went hiking just days after its release.

The early 90's with 4 MB RAM in a Newton would have been unheard of, since 4/40 and 4/80 were about the only configurations offered for Macintosh desktops at that time. Truly, the Newton was ahead of its time (though many of us in Apple relied on it heavily for years), but I am not certain that any PDA existed before 1998. But like I said, I have a poor memory.

Thanks for the article! We hope to hear more soon.
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post #282 of 314
7/24/08 at 8:32am
Thought i'd post this here too.....



I think a Mini Tablet is inevitable.

Few of the reasons:
* People love browsing Safari on the iPhone but want it to be slightly bigger
* Netbooks are very popular
* Artists, Students, Medical Staff & other niche markets are crying for one
* It has a lust factor
* Apple keep on refining the OS X UI for Touch interfaces (Stacks, Icon Previews, CoverFlow etc)
* Lack of Copy & Paste on iPhone (conspiracy theory)
* Ubiquitous Computing - Different Technology for different tasks
* It could work with your Desktop/Laptop as an Input Device

* I imagine the Japanese would start killing people to get one too

Form Factor:
1.5 times the size of the iPhone is the size of a small book.
This form factor is great for watching movies, digital books, browsing the web, playing games, document editing and sketching.

It could also be used for In-Car entertainment & Navigation, Presentations, Video conferencing and you could even route phone calls
and 3G data from your iPhone. WiFi and USB dongles would still be there.

I'm not sure running the full OS is a good idea or not (That said, Snow Leopard would be great on this device!!) but there could be some unique
ways to address tasks such as sketching/Photoshop work so you don't have to use intensive apps.
Apple could make a basic image editing app designed for MultiTouch. Have it export to .PSD and other popular formats. An Apple Pixelmator, bundled with iLife or iWork.

Final Thoughts:
It makes sense for Apple to increase their product lines slightly because of the dawn of ubiquitous computing. People are starting to mix and match technology
based upon their requirements. You don't always need to lug a Laptop around hence the multitude of attempts at creating smaller devices (MB Air, UMPC, Smart Phone, Tablet, Netbook).

As for price. I'm happy up to $999

PS: This could (unfortunately for some) kill the Mac Mini too and the idea of an iPhone Nano! The iPhone/iPod Touch in essence would become the Nano variation of this product line



Bigger Version on Flickr



Bigger Version on Flickr
5-8" MultiTouch Mini Tablet would go down a treat if you're reading!
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5-8" MultiTouch Mini Tablet would go down a treat if you're reading!
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post #283 of 314
7/24/08 at 9:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

No we don't. We're all guessing. It's definitely not coming until 2009, and probably not even Macworld but it would make sense.

It is looking like there is a chance its gonna debut in 08!
The only thing I don't like about the new rumor is that the macdailynews source says its going to have a slot loading drive.
I don't like this. I think it should not have a media drive just like the macbook air. Its just going to add unneeded bulk. There should be a wireless connection to media sources.
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post #284 of 314
7/24/08 at 11:28am
Hi gang;

Having had my iPhone 2 for a couple of days now I think I can offer up some perspective on what an ideal Newton would be like.

First consider this iPhone 2 could very well have been Newton 2 if it wasn't for the small screen size. On the other hand a hugely larger device isn't going to work in the pocket. So what we are talking about here is a screen mayby a half inch higher and atleast one & half wider. This stuffed into a physical enclosure as small as technically possible. The idea here is to make web browsing and document reading a better experience. This should also greatly enhance the play back of movies and multi media.

The constraints on physical hieght is to keep the device in a manner acceptable pocket travel. Here length would be more tolerable than width. Even with that said I wuold not want to see the newton 2 much more than 3/8" wider and an inch longer with apple giving up some of the bessel to increase screen size. If this sounds like I'm saying I want a bigger screen on a not much larger iPhone case that would be about right.

The next consideration would be a scripting environment. Here I'm talking an IDE app for the generation and execution of Python apps/scripts. The simple reality is that the iPhone cries out for a way to run and generate apps that don't require the over head of full XCode development. Currently the only alternative is web apps and they are too limited. Apple needs to wake up on this one.

Battery life is an issue but not as bad as has been made out. A slightly large device running the same basic hardware should have a big advantage here if Apple puts in a larger battery. What would really help here is that if Apple gave us the option of a back with solar cells. Maybe some sort of flip out solar panel.

A 3G option is a requirement. One I'm extremely surprised at just how handy the ability to get to the net from anywhere is. Second I see newton 2 as being a very useful Internet tablet and communications device that could also replace a persons cell phone. It's larger size though doesn't mean it is a given. Ideally the option would simply be a plug in module instead of the two devices arraingement we currently have. That is give us ok device that is modifiable via plug in socket for 3G or whatever wireless tech we choose. Done right this should be a huge win for both Apple and it's customers.

Better Bluetooth support!!!!! Not just Newton 2 either but all of Apples Touch devices. This is huge because current limitation grossly impact what one can deliver as apps. I'm beginning to think that a public effort is needed to get Apple to flesh out the basic Bluetooth profiles much like what was done to get the SDK out. I'm certain the hardware could be doing more than it is.

Replaceable battery. Need I say more! Very important for commercial use.


Dave
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post #285 of 314
7/24/08 at 12:19pm
If the new device is called Newton 2 then i will give you my weight in gold.... it is not a newton.... so dont call it a newton... my guess its called MacTouch... but don't get your hopes up
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post #286 of 314
7/24/08 at 1:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by oneoftheothers View Post

If the new device is called Newton 2 then i will give you my weight in gold.... it is not a newton.... so dont call it a newton... my guess its called MacTouch... but don't get your hopes up

When people talk about Mac Touch they are for the most part talking about something completely different. Basically what I'm talking about in a Newton 2 is a larger iPhone, not a scaled down Mac. The application usage is completely different where the Newton 2 would simply offer the user a larger screen than the iPhone and thus they ability to better deliver multi media in a portable platform. Newton 2 is very much a pocketable device or at the most something that would live on the waist band.

The point is Newton 2 is simply a placeholder name for a physical device that helps focus people on size and functionality. What Apple calls it really is of no concern, the idea is that it deliver a certain amount of functionality that iPhone can't.


Dave
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post #287 of 314
7/24/08 at 2:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dazabrit View Post

Form Factor:
1.5 times the size of the iPhone is the size of a small book.



Bigger Version on Flickr

I believe that 1.5 times the size of the iPhone would look more like this (5.6" display), not including the enormous bezel/chin:

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post #288 of 314
7/24/08 at 3:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjteix View Post

I believe that 1.5 times the size of the iPhone would look more like this (5.6" display), not including the enormous bezel/chin:

I think you're right My mockup is a little too high!
5-8" MultiTouch Mini Tablet would go down a treat if you're reading!
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5-8" MultiTouch Mini Tablet would go down a treat if you're reading!
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post #289 of 314
7/24/08 at 7:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dazabrit View Post

I think you're right My mockup is a little too high!

Yes. Do the mockup again without any chin or at least a minimalist one and also.......make it so you can fold it in half horizontally like a book. But don't make it two lcds. Make it one screen that folds in half....with some sort of flexible technology.
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post #290 of 314
7/25/08 at 2:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by oneoftheothers View Post

If the new device is called Newton 2 then i will give you my weight in gold.... it is not a newton.... so dont call it a newton... my guess its called MacTouch... but don't get your hopes up

How about the MacOrigami?


C.


Welcome to 2006
http://www.origamiproject.com/3/
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post #291 of 314
7/28/08 at 8:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

Newton 2 is very much a pocketable device or at the most something that would live on the waist band.

:barf:
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post #292 of 314
7/28/08 at 12:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniphage View Post

How about the MacOrigami?


C.


Welcome to 2006
http://www.origamiproject.com/3/

lol, but get out of here ....

Quote:
Originally Posted by probably View Post

:barf:

i agree, what is this the age of beepers n cell phone clips :P

Quote:
Originally Posted by Olternaut View Post

Yes. Do the mockup again without any chin or at least a minimalist one and also.......make it so you can fold it in half horizontally like a book. But don't make it two lcds. Make it one screen that folds in half....with some sort of flexible technology.


it won't fold in half.... where would you get that,,, good idea,,, just wnt happen
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post #293 of 314
7/28/08 at 12:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by oneoftheothers View Post

lol, but get out of here ....



i agree, what is this the age of beepers n cell phone clips :P




it won't fold in half.... where would you get that,,, good idea,,, just wnt happen

The prototypes are out there. I would like to see it in a mockup.
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post #294 of 314
7/28/08 at 4:02pm
[QUOTE=oneoftheothers;1285394]lol, but get out of here ....



i agree, what is this the age of beepers n cell phone clips :P
[\\quote]
I really believe you guys are missing the reality of what even a marginally larger screen can do for usability. Especially if that larger screen can be had in a device not much larger than iPhone. How is that possible you may ask, well three things come to mind.

1.
Marginally larger dimensions. Even a half inch can do a lot for iPhone, more would be welcomed.

2.
Folding screen. The tech is just coming out of the labs but of could lead to double the space in atleast one direction.

3.
A roll out screen. This tech might be a little farther off. The problem with it though is that the screen isn't stiff.

Quote:



it won't fold in half.... where would you get that,,, good idea,,, just wnt happen

Folding screen tech is being actively worked on in the labs. Most such screens are OLED based.


As to the negativity around marginally larger devices do realize I have some experience with iPhone, maybe you don't, in any event the only issue I have with it besides the bugs is the sceen size. If you have never wanted just a bit more in a pocket device then that is you. Me want more!

Not a lot mind you just enough to add a couple of lines to the horizontal edit boxes. Also a bit more width


Dave
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post #295 of 314
7/28/08 at 4:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by J Fale View Post

Hi,

I apologize if this has been discussed, but my poor memory places the original Newton being released in 1998. I worked for Apple as a Service Technician from 92-99, and I believe it was released in July of 98 because I took my brand new Newton into the Continental Divide when I went hiking just days after its release.

The early 90's with 4 MB RAM in a Newton would have been unheard of, since 4/40 and 4/80 were about the only configurations offered for Macintosh desktops at that time. Truly, the Newton was ahead of its time (though many of us in Apple relied on it heavily for years), but I am not certain that any PDA existed before 1998. But like I said, I have a poor memory.

The Newton was introduced in 1993. Steve killed the Newton in February '98 after he came back to Apple. You came very late to the game there.
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post #296 of 314
7/28/08 at 4:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolchak View Post

The Newton was introduced in 1993. Steve killed the Newton in February '98 after he came back to Apple. You came very late to the game there.

Technology isn't alive, it can't be killed.

DaHarder just got banned. Let's crack open the champagne.

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post #297 of 314
7/30/08 at 4:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by J Fale View Post

Hi,
Truly, the Newton was ahead of its time (though many of us in Apple relied on it heavily for years), but I am not certain that any PDA existed before 1998. But like I said, I have a poor memory.

Thanks for the article! We hope to hear more soon.

PDA certainly existed before 1998, there were the Alladin devices from MS and the nifty HP LX-100 one of the smallest DOS base device that was actually useful and had a usable keyboard that puts the Blackberry to shame!

I wanted a Newton2 to be exactly twice the size of the iPhone. Don't bother with any keyboard, just give us Wireless bluetooth keyboard support.
MBP 2.4UB 500HD , MBA Gen1 1.6/80HD MB 2.2SR 250HD PB 1.67 160HD iPhones Gen1 8G4G
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MBP 2.4UB 500HD , MBA Gen1 1.6/80HD MB 2.2SR 250HD PB 1.67 160HD iPhones Gen1 8G4G
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post #298 of 314
7/30/08 at 6:21am
I've been on the fence about getting a iPod Touch for productivity and internet. Keeping media on it would obviously be a plus.

Not too long ago there was a video demo of a folding screen. It was monochrome but showed the potential of the technology and it's being pursued. When mature enough, Apple would definitely be one of the first, if not the first, to implement it.

Check out folding:
http://technology.timesonline.co.uk/...cle1840485.ece
Rolling:
http://www.technovelgy.com/ct/Scienc...p?NewsNum=1359
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post #299 of 314
7/30/08 at 10:16am
[QUOTE=Outsider;1286352]I've been on the fence about getting a iPod Touch for productivity and internet. Keeping media on it would obviously be a plus.
[\\quote]
The Touch might do as a productivity tool but if you are interested in such I believe the iPhone 3G is a better choice. Having just made the transition from a very dumb phone to a 3G I'm surprised at just how useful 3G is. Literally use it all the time now. If you get ride of your wired phone it isn't all that expensive.

Quote:

Not too long ago there was a video demo of a folding screen. It was monochrome but showed the potential of the technology and it's being pursued. When mature enough, Apple would definitely be one of the first, if not the first, to implement it.

Hopefully Apple will look onto this. But you do realize the same thing can be had in color screens. Ohh about a year an a half ago Photonics had a very interesting article on new display technologies. The tech is in the labs already. The biggest problem with the screens being the life of the light emitters. To that I say give us screens we can change like light bulbs.



Dave
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post #300 of 314
7/30/08 at 5:15pm
If you're going to close quote tags yourself, you really should learn the difference between slash and backslash.
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post #301 of 314
7/24/09 at 6:57pm
I wish oled was cheap enough to be used for a tablet like this. It would have the energy efficiency to give a good battery life, and its thin. I'd really like to see a durable display too. Something that you wouldn't have to worry about dropping. Plastic Logic's display, thought not color yet, is supposed to have battery life that lasts for days and looks pretty durable - and the size is great - fits a letter sized page (8 1/2 x 11).
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post #302 of 314
7/25/09 at 5:20pm
"Holy Necroposts, Batman!"

Late 2009 Unibody MacBook (modified)
2.26GHz Core 2 Duo CPU/8GB RAM/60GB SSD/500GB HDD
SuperDrive delete
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Late 2009 Unibody MacBook (modified)
2.26GHz Core 2 Duo CPU/8GB RAM/60GB SSD/500GB HDD
SuperDrive delete
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post #303 of 314
7/29/09 at 6:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by alinaboom View Post

I join. It was and with me. Let's discuss this question. Here or in PM.
Sorry for offtop:

Don't post links just after joining. You have been reported as spam.

DaHarder just got banned. Let's crack open the champagne.

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post #304 of 314
7/29/09 at 7:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Don't post links just after joining. You have been reported as spam.

Ya know....perhaps it was a good thing for this thread to be revived. I've reviewed all our posts to it over the last 2 years and I think it's time we continue it to it's eventual conclusion......the reveal of the mactouch!
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post #305 of 314
7/29/09 at 8:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Olternaut View Post

Ya know....perhaps it was a good thing for this thread to be revived. I've reviewed all our posts to it over the last 2 years and I think it's time we continue it to it's eventual conclusion......the reveal of the mactouch!

I actually consider Newton 2 to be a completely different beast than Macintouch. Newton 2 would be nothing more than a slightly larger Touch/iPhone. With the idea of delivering the largest screen possible in a pocketable device. It would be very much a device in the iPod family.

When we start to talk about larger Touch based tablets I see them as different beasts. Clearly such devices need more OS features than we currently have in the Touch OS. This in fact makes for a more interesting discussion as those features reflect many personal biases as to what is an acceptable OS.


Dave
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post #306 of 314
7/29/09 at 10:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

I actually consider Newton 2 to be a completely different beast than Macintouch. Newton 2 would be nothing more than a slightly larger Touch/iPhone. With the idea of delivering the largest screen possible in a pocketable device. It would be very much a device in the iPod family.

When we start to talk about larger Touch based tablets I see them as different beasts. Clearly such devices need more OS features than we currently have in the Touch OS. This in fact makes for a more interesting discussion as those features reflect many personal biases as to what is an acceptable OS.


Dave

macintouch....heh heh.

Ok, well here we go then.....
There are two issues that are vitally important to the success of this device. One, as you pointed out, is the actual OS of this device. There has been much debate as to whether it should have a full Mac OS or an iPhone like OS.
I say, I seriously say that it needs to be a special hybrid OS that has features of the Mac OS and iPhone OS. This would imply that the device will be more than simply a large ipod touch which is geared for media consumption. And that you will be able to more useful computing on it such as content creation.

And second, and I'm not so sure it's a seperate item at this point, is what feature of the device has Steve Jobs finally settled on that will make the mystery device finally marketable in his eyes. There must be something outstanding about the device that Jobs sees will make the public want to buy it (hardware, software, content).
That is what has been holding Apple back from releasing it in the first place. Obviously such a device is useful. But perhaps not useful enough to be released.....until now.
What has changed do you think?
I sure as hell know that interactive albums is not what is going to make people run out to buy it.

A new and advanced form of multi-touch from the fingerworks guys included in the new product is an almost certainty at this point.
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post #307 of 314
7/29/09 at 2:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Don't post links just after joining. You have been reported as spam.

I didn't get the report, but I nuked that user for spamming Cialis or whatever it was in the signature.
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post #308 of 314
7/30/09 at 3:29am
Deleted by Ireland. Mistakingly predicted Apple Rocket ship 3G.

DaHarder just got banned. Let's crack open the champagne.

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post #309 of 314
7/30/09 at 7:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Deleted by Ireland. Mistakingly predicted Apple Rocket ship 3G.

What rocket ship?
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post #310 of 314
7/30/09 at 4:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Apple Inc, which helped spawn the PDA market with its Newton MessagePad line in the early '90s, plans to give the concept another go with a modern day reincarnation of the old fan favorite based on the company's new mutli-touch technology, AppleInsider has learned.

For Apple, the ongoing project represents its second stab at reinventing the PDA since the Newton met its fate in the late 90's -- the first of which never saw the light of day and is only known to have existed based on a one-off comment from chief executive Steve Jobs over three years ago.

Speaking at the 2004 edition of the Wall Street Journal's D: All Things Digital conference, Jobs stated that he was proud not only of the products Apple had released in recent years, but also the products the company had decided not to ship.

When asked by an audience member to elaborate, Jobs said simply, "an Apple PDA."

It appears that Jobs and Co. never gave up hope, and instead returned to the drawing board. For the past 18 months, well-respected sources tell AppleInsider, a small team of Apple engineers have been at it again, this time tapping the company's revolutionary multi-touch technology as a foundation.

During that time, sources have observed the project slip in and out of limbo, as Apple struggled to meet its self-imposed June, 2007 launch date for the iPhone. In at least two instances, the company pulled software engineers off the project to assist in the completion of the iPhone software, only to return those same engineers to the their original task months later.

With the initial iPhone now out the door and two successive models well underway in Apple's labs, it's believed to be full steam ahead for the modern day Newton project. Like iPhone and the iPod touch, the new device runs an embedded version of Apple's Mac OS X Leopard operating system.

Externally, the mutil-touch PDA has been described by sources as an ultra-thin "slate" akin to the iPhone, about 1.5 times the size and sporting an approximate 720x480 high-resolution display that comprises almost the entire surface of the unit. The device is further believed to leverage multi-touch concepts which have yet to gain widespread adoption in Apple's existing multi-touch products -- the iPhone and iPod touch -- like drag-and-drop and copy-and-paste.

Artist rendition showing approximate size ratio to existing Apple handhelds | Artwork by audiopollution.

More broadly characterized as Apple's answer to the ultra-mobile PC, the next-gen device is believed to be tracking for a release sometime in the first half of 2008. Assuming the project remains clear of roadblocks, sources believe it could make an inaugural appearance during Jobs' Macworld keynote in January alongside some new Mac offerings. Still, manufacturing ramp and availability would seem unlikely until closer to mid-year, those same sources say.

As AppleInsider has hinted in recent months (1, 2), the next-gen PDA will signal the advent of a fifth core business segment (fourth if you discount Apple TV) for Apple, but at the same time represent just smidgen of what's to come from the company's new multi-touch platform, which has already proven to be a game-changer.

Know something we don't? Hearing something interesting? We're always listening, so drop us a line at private (at) appleinsider.com or submit a tip via one of our news submission forms.

I have always felt the main reason Newton was abandoned was Jobs simply hated it as being what Scully loved. I doubt Jobs would ever acknowledge the thanks iPhone/iPod owes to Newton as well as any forthcoming tablet will. I was really sad when they killed the Newton. It could have been very competitive with Palm.
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post #311 of 314
7/30/09 at 5:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gegreen View Post

I have always felt the main reason Newton was abandoned was Jobs simply hated it as being what Scully loved. I doubt Jobs would ever acknowledge the thanks iPhone/iPod owes to Newton as well as any forthcoming tablet will. I was really sad when they killed the Newton. It could have been very competitive with Palm.

Apple was a wreck when Steve took over. He should be creditted with putting a team together to turn that around in less than a years time. Newtons axeing had a lot to do with taking control of a mess.

Likewise it has become apparent that many tablets have been prototyped at Apple over the last few years but have not seen the light of day. What has kept them off the market is unknown but I'm sure Scully had nothing to do with it.

Also it is interesting that Apple didn't sell off Newton as a product or division. They kept all the IP in house which tells me they had a long term view. Part of that long term view may have been realizing that Newton didn't have an OS with legs for the future. Putting UNIX on the iPhone makes for a platform that will last for decades.



Dave
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post #312 of 314
7/30/09 at 9:00pm
I'm sitting here on lunch break looking at a recent copy of Electronic Design. In there is an artical on a "single chip" TV tuner from Silicon Laboratories. While not apparently targetted at the mobile mark it is a one watt device. I'm thinking this would be a fantastic feature for a large iPod Touch / Newton 2.

Why not as you have everything else in the case already to enable TV functionality. This would mesh well with Apples stated desire to take the Touch devices in a different direction than iPhone. For a reasonably sized tablet it could be the a feature that makes the unit attractive to many individuals. It is all about finding that hot feature to drive sales.

Of course some see broadcast TV as dead but it is also a mobile resource that doesn't require hi bandwidth connections. Newton 2 could see huge opportunies at football games for example.


Dave
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post #313 of 314
7/31/09 at 11:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

I'm sitting here on lunch break looking at a recent copy of Electronic Design. In there is an artical on a "single chip" TV tuner from Silicon Laboratories. While not apparently targetted at the mobile mark it is a one watt device. I'm thinking this would be a fantastic feature for a large iPod Touch / Newton 2.

Why not as you have everything else in the case already to enable TV functionality. This would mesh well with Apples stated desire to take the Touch devices in a different direction than iPhone. For a reasonably sized tablet it could be the a feature that makes the unit attractive to many individuals. It is all about finding that hot feature to drive sales.

Of course some see broadcast TV as dead but it is also a mobile resource that doesn't require hi bandwidth connections. Newton 2 could see huge opportunies at football games for example.


Dave

I'm not sure about that particular feature but more than likely the product is going to contain a custom system on chip type of component or components.
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post #314 of 314
7/31/09 at 1:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Olternaut View Post

I'm not sure about that particular feature but more than likely the product is going to contain a custom system on chip type of component or components.

That is most likely the case. But a high integration SoC leaves lots of unboard space for other chips. Especially hybrid analog/digital chips like a tuner.

I'm just thinking about what killer feature a Newton 2 sized iPod Touch could offer and see digital TV as a possibility. It seems like a small addition to what is already required to be in the case. It also meshes nicely with iPods media focus.

In many cases though it wouldn't even compete with Apples other businesses due to broadcast TVs heavy focus on transient news and events. No one is going to get on iTunes to watch the news or a ball game.

Rather I can see somebody at a ball game watching replays on such a tablet while another app like the MLB one runs in back ground. Or one can pick up the local news where ever he is. It would seem to mesh well with the device and at the same time control bandwidth usage.


Dave
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