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New MacBook and MacBook Pro to get 'SAME' aluminum & glass design? - Page 2

post #41 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Green View Post

We need Apple to recognize that people will be taking their laptops outdoors and they need at least one model that'll handle dust, sand, rain, and drops. I realize that it would make the model thicker and heavier, but to the people needing the protection, it's well worth it.

This looks more like a military grade laptop. Better ask the US army for that.
post #42 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by PB View Post

This looks more like a military grade laptop. Better ask the US army for that.

LOL, last I checked, the Army doesn't make laptops. Conveniently enough though, Apple does. Panasonic makes one, but I'm not going to convert to Windows in order to get a rugged model.
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post #43 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Green View Post

The MacBook Pro is an amazing laptop but it does have one limitation. People use them outside and often times expose them to less than friendly conditions. I spent two years in the Middle East and sand was a constant problem. I dropped the laptop twice because my fingers were dusty and the metal enclosure just slid out of my hand. Luckily it still worked but the lid never closed right after that, nor was it flat bottomed.

We need Apple to recognize that people will be taking their laptops outdoors and they need at least one model that'll handle dust, sand, rain, and drops. I realize that it would make the model thicker and heavier, but to the people needing the protection, it's well worth it.

I know it's a niche market that most people wouldn't use, but there currently exists no Mac ruggedized to handle that kind of abuse, at any price that I'm aware of. Considering that so many production companies use MacBook Pro's in the field, one would think that the added protection would be welcomed.

100% agree.
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post #44 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Green View Post

Panasonic makes one, but I'm not going to convert to Windows in order to get a rugged model.

Which Panasonic model is that?
post #45 of 81
That would be the Panasonic "ToughBook 30"

Toughbook

I've used them in the military and they take a lot of abuse, but they are Windows only. I'm looking for a similar product on the Mac platform.

I also believe that Jonathan Ive can do a better job with it and still make it tough enough that it can handle rain, sand, dust, and drops without a problem.
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post #46 of 81
Mac ToughBook. That would be nice
post #47 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Green View Post

That would be the Panasonic "ToughBook 30"

Toughbook

I've used them in the military and they take a lot of abuse, but they are Windows only. I'm looking for a similar product on the Mac platform.

I also believe that Jonathan Ive can do a better job with it and still make it tough enough that it can handle rain, sand, dust, and drops without a problem.

OK, thanks, I see what you mean. I don't see though how such a portable would be positioned in the existing Apple lines. A toughbook means many compromises not only in weight but in design also. Do you think of it more as a new category of its own?
post #48 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by PB View Post

OK, thanks, I see what you mean. I don't see though how such a portable would be positioned in the existing Apple lines. A toughbook means many compromises not only in weight but in design also. Do you think of it more as a new category of its own?

The idea is that it wouldn't be positioned within the existing lines at all. It would be a separate Jonathan Ive build. The people wanting the added security wouldn't care about the weight. In fact, the people who would be using it probably remember older laptops that were that thick and that heavy anyway. This ought to be an industrial grade laptop for those people who need mobile computation outdoors in hostile weather environments whether it be rain, snow, sleet, sandstorms, etc. It wouldn't be a MacBook Pro (but has the same guts).

The military, emergency response, college students doing field work, TV production companies filming on location, Hollywood in general for filming on location, news channels, and just plain people who are clumsy or want to have added protection. That's one hell of a niche that Apple could fill with a better product than what Panasonic offers. I know without question that Jonathan Ive could make a laptop that could handle anything if he put his mind to it, and I'd further wager that it's be thinner (and tougher) than the Panasonic model.
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post #49 of 81
Newbie here

I'm planning to buy a Macbook this month but you guys said that there could possibly be a new Macbook out either October or November. So should I wait for an announcement or are these only rumors?
post #50 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3ple4 View Post

I'm planning to buy a Macbook this month but you guys said that there could possibly be a new Macbook out either October or November. So should I wait for an announcement or are these only rumors?

Only rumors of course, but there is some basis. If you look at the recommendation, you will see "Neutral - Mid product cycle". However, the diagram makes clear that this is due to the two exceptions in 2005 and 2006. All the other updates are separated by intervals of about 6 months. Mid November would be the next chance for a Macbook update.
post #51 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Green View Post

The MacBook Pro is an amazing laptop but it does have one limitation. People use them outside and often times expose them to less than friendly conditions. I spent two years in the Middle East and sand was a constant problem. I dropped the laptop twice because my fingers were dusty and the metal enclosure just slid out of my hand. Luckily it still worked but the lid never closed right after that, nor was it flat bottomed.

We need Apple to recognize that people will be taking their laptops outdoors and they need at least one model that'll handle dust, sand, rain, and drops. I realize that it would make the model thicker and heavier, but to the people needing the protection, it's well worth it.

I know it's a niche market that most people wouldn't use, but there currently exists no Mac ruggedized to handle that kind of abuse, at any price that I'm aware of. Considering that so many production companies use MacBook Pro's in the field, one would think that the added protection would be welcomed.

Moving it from place to place you should have a leather bag or briefcase....

And I'm assuming that you're moving and not just sitting it on a desk in the dust and sand because you said that it slipped out of your hands....
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post #52 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by DHagan4755 View Post

Something's brewing...the lead times for schools buying MacBook Pros has gone up.

I wonder why the lead time on the 17" MacBook Pro went up to 2-3 weeks!?!?



It's 2-3 weeks whether you choose standard resolution or the 1900x1200 high resolution option on the 17-inch.

That would be nice to get the 1080P screen standard seeing as how I ordered one and waited 4 weeks and then asked for a refund for the difference to the standard screen.

I'm also wanting:

1. How about a new open button for the screen?
2. 6 or 8GB RAM
3. 2.8 or 3.2 Core 2 Duo Extreme
4. 200GB @7200RPM HD
5. 1080P Hi-Res screen standard
6. Optional Blu-ray drive
7. Obviously, Leopard.

As I know these are just my dreams.... but I hope they come true....
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post #53 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Footloose301 View Post

1. How about a new open button for the screen?
2. 6 or 8GB RAM
3. 2.8 or 3.2 Core 2 Duo Extreme
4. 200GB @7200RPM HD
5. 1080P Hi-Res screen standard
6. Optional Blu-ray drive
7. Obviously, Leopard.

As I know these are just my dreams.... but I hope they come true....

1. Perhaps
2. No, we just went from 2GB to 3GB to 4GB. It'll be a while before the Intel notebook chipsets support more than 4GB because 4GB is 2^32. Probably 2010. Until then 4GB will keep getting less expensive.
3. Maybe 2.8MHz in January, but I think that's optimistic.
4. 7200rpm drives use more power, so they won't be standard but will continue to be an option, eventually reaching 200GB.
5. With Resolution Independence, we'll be seeing higher screen resolutions. Sony are already shipping an ultraportable with 250dpi. The iPhone is 163dpi.
6. Maybe
7. Of course.
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post #54 of 81
Guys, I think it's fair to say that we will not see new aluminum MacBooks or MacBook Pro revisions this calendar year... (I hope that I am wrong!)
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post #55 of 81
I agree.
I think MacPro is next with new displays then maybe at MWSF MacBook Pro.
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post #56 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by DHagan4755 View Post

Guys, I think it's fair to say that we will not see new aluminum MacBooks or MacBook Pro revisions this calendar year... (I hope that I am wrong!)

hmm, according to the buyers guide linked above, we're only 40 days short of the end the average update period... i reckon we might see penryn MBPs not long after leopard... that said, given how close we are to xmas, they might wait til jan...
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post #57 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post



I like your screen design.

It at least seems like a plausible direction that Apple might take with its portables.
post #58 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by sennen View Post

hmm, according to the buyers guide linked above, we're only 40 days short of the end the average update period... i reckon we might see penryn MBPs not long after leopard... that said, given how close we are to xmas, they might wait til jan...

Penryns for portables won't be shipping in quantity until January or February so there is no significant chance of a new laptop design (other than a speedbump) being announced before MWSF.
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post #59 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarling View Post

Penryns for portables won't be shipping in quantity until January or February so there is no significant chance of a new laptop design (other than a speedbump) being announced before MWSF.

Not to forget that the associated chipset (montevina) will only be available in Q2 (around May 2008).

The first chips availablae in Q1 (Jan-Feb 2008) are in fact 45nm Meroms that work with the Santa Rosa chipset, but are not really different from Meroms (and not much faster).

In Q2, we will have the really new chips really faster and with a faster FSB too (up to 3.06GHz and up to 1066FSB). I think Apple should use those (with Montevina) for the MacBook Pro and iMac.

Then in Q3 (summer), lower voltage chips (25W vs 35W) and chipsets will be available (GL/GS series, lower voltage and smaller foot print for smaller notebooks and SFF desktops - mini).

Around the same timeframe the first quad-core mobile chip should be available (AFAIK, it will be a 2.66GHz with a 1066FSB, and will cost around $850).

Lots of parts to make the notebooks, AIOs and SFFs better and faster.
post #60 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjteix View Post

The first chips availablae in Q1 (Jan-Feb 2008) are in fact 45nm Meroms that work with the Santa Rosa chipset, but are not really different from Meroms (and not much faster).

This is not entirely accurate. Penryn, whilst not a new architecture, will have SSE4, faster floating-point and fixed-point divides, and more cache. For code optimised for SSE4, there will be a significant speed boost at the same clock frequency.

You are correct though that the full potential of Penryn in terms of FSB will not be unlocked until Monteniva arrives.
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post #61 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

May sound crazy, but what if the next new MacBoooks and MacBook Pros come out the same time, and get the same modern aluminum and glass design. Heck, what if Apple dropped the 'Pro' moniker completely?

This design seems perfectly fitting to me.

You choose your size, 13", 15" or 17" and regardless you get this sleek new design. You also get the ability to make any size MacBook (including the 13") as powerful as a Pro machine would be.

I'm not sure about the glass aspect (no more non-gloss option for the pros, which would upset a lot of people), but otherwise I do hope that Apple are going to go in this direction. It is insane that their cheapest 15" laptop is $2000, and cheapest 17" laptop is $2800. It's time for Apple to stop tying screen size to computing power.

All that being said, I do like the plastic design of the MacBook very much. Whilst I personally prefer aluminium, I think that plastic is a bit more durable - it'll take a few knocks without bending or getting dented, unlike the aluminium Mabook Pros, and therefore seems a better option for students carrying them around in their backpacks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Goes without saying the 17" wouldn't have an integrated graphics card as an option.

Why not? I thought this was all about giving the customer the option. If they don't play games, today's integrated graphics chips are more than powerful enough. Why should someone have to pay for a dedicated graphics chip that they don't want just to get a 17" screen?
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post #62 of 81
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H

Why not? I thought this was all about giving the customer the option. If they don't play games, today's integrated graphics chips are more than powerful enough. Why should someone have to pay for a dedicated graphics chip that they don't want just to get a 17" screen?

I don't even know if 17" notebooks with integrated graphic cards are available by any company, and at the end of the day if you're not a gamer, or a professional web designer you wouldn't want a 17" screen on a notebook in the first place.
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post #63 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

I don't even know if 17" notebooks with integrated graphic cards are available by any company

There's the Fujitsu Siemens L1818, for sale from PC world in the U.K. for £382 ($764 relative to the MacBook Pro's $2800 price tag) excluding V.A.T.
There's the Toshiba P200-178 (£451 ex. VAT)
There's the Dell Inspiron 1720 ($849)

And I'm sure many others too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

, and at the end of the day if you're not a gamer, or a professional web designer you wouldn't want a 17" screen on a notebook in the first place.

You might want a 17" screen to watch DVDs on. Watching a DVD does not require a dedicated GPU.
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post #64 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

if you're not a gamer, or a professional web designer you wouldn't want a 17" screen on a notebook in the first place.

Many people, including but not limited to lawyers and accountants, need to have three or more text documents or spreadsheets open at the same time. They have no need for accelerated graphics.
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post #65 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarling View Post

Many people, including but not limited to lawyers and accountants, need to have three or more text documents or spreadsheets open at the same time. They have no need for accelerated graphics.

but also people that want to look at the pictures created by these proffesional artists and dont need graphics accelerated. there are many reasons why to have a 17" screen but why not have a 13" with a graphics card all these are possible. and as the above post suggested. all the user choose everything down to the core.
for example
2.0Ghz
1GB RAM
17" screen
200GB 5400rpm
no gfx card.
just for word processing. watching movies on the go low power usage config
or 15.4"
2.6Ghz
2GB RAM
15.4" Screen
200GB 5400rpm HDD
and a graphics card with 256MB VRAM

basicly it comes down to what the user wants. but there also should be preconfigered laptops for people that want to hassle with the hardware config.

There are plenty of resons for "For total config" and others for "Against"
but this is just my opinion.

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post #66 of 81
MacBook
-------------
13.3"
2.0 Ghz
120 GB HDD
1 GB RAM
$1099

15.4"
1 GB RAM
2.2 GHz
160 GB Hdd
$1399

17"
2 GB RAM
2.4GHz
200GB HDD
$1699
--integrated graphics, super drive, all black version, others BTO

MacBook Pro
---------------
15.4"
2 GB RAM
2.4 GHz
200 GB Hdd
$1799

17"
2 GB RAM
2.6 GHz
250GB HDD
$1999

--dedicated graphics, alu, some additional features to differentiate between MB & MBP others BTO

i can only wish

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post #67 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Green View Post

The MacBook Pro is an amazing laptop but it does have one limitation. People use them outside and often times expose them to less than friendly conditions. I spent two years in the Middle East and sand was a constant problem. I dropped the laptop twice because my fingers were dusty and the metal enclosure just slid out of my hand. Luckily it still worked but the lid never closed right after that, nor was it flat bottomed.

We need Apple to recognize that people will be taking their laptops outdoors and they need at least one model that'll handle dust, sand, rain, and drops. I realize that it would make the model thicker and heavier, but to the people needing the protection, it's well worth it.

I know it's a niche market that most people wouldn't use, but there currently exists no Mac ruggedized to handle that kind of abuse, at any price that I'm aware of. Considering that so many production companies use MacBook Pro's in the field, one would think that the added protection would be welcomed.

You'd think third party company's would make protective shells or something for such users. I'm not being sarcastic, I know such things exist, but the models I've seen were hardly what I'd call armor. I'm referring to more industrial oriented designs that might not be as aesthetically pleasing but would survive in rugged terrain.
post #68 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hindsight View Post

You'd think third party company's would make protective shells or something for such users. I'm not being sarcastic, I know such things exist, but the models I've seen were hardly what I'd call armor. I'm referring to more industrial oriented designs that might not be as aesthetically pleasing but would survive in rugged terrain.

You are correct. The fact that there is no one doing it is likely a good indicator of the market for said product. This is a niche market in the PC world, so it would be an ultra-niche market for Apple. Until Apple gets into more businesses, this likely wouldn't be cost effective.
post #69 of 81
I'm just not convinced with the aluminium silver look. Using the present MacBook Pro sends shivers down my spine every time I touch it. The feel of it positively puts my teeth on edge. I think the best way forward is to go back to black with aluminium trim a la the new iPhone/iPod touch and the iMac. Silver to me is an old 'new millennium' marketing colour like all the silver cars that where bought around that time.

On a positive note. I love the idea of dropping the 'pro' moniker and going with choice when it comes to fire power. Just hold off on the silver already.
post #70 of 81
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by powderdust View Post

I'm just not convinced with the aluminium silver look. Using the present MacBook Pro sends shivers down my spine every time I touch it. The feel of it positively puts my teeth on edge. I think the best way forward is to go back to black with aluminium trim a la the new iPhone/iPod touch and the iMac.

I can't say that "shivers" thing is a common irrational fear, I've never heard it before. As for you view on the best way forward, I've news for you, the iMac and iPhone are actually silver, aluminum-silver, just like the MacBook Pro. The only parts that are not are silver are their screens, just like the way this design is.




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post #71 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

I can't say that "shivers" thing is a common irrational fear, I've never heard it before. As for you view on the best way forward, I've news for you, the iMac and iPhone are actually silver, aluminum-silver, just like the MacBook Pro. The only parts that are not are silver are their screens, just like the way this design is.





Lol, bummer! I'll just have to spend 2008 with my hair standing on end.
post #72 of 81
I would love to see them drop the differentiation between the MB and MBP lines - let me get a base configuration 17" or a superpower 13".

One other thing to consider: from patents like this it's obvious that Apple will be coming out with a multitouch keyboard (they took out another patent that allows the screen to differentiate between contact and pressure and another one that allows for a hidden tactile factor so that you could "feel" the keys) screen for some kind of application. "Unprecedented integration of typing, resting, pointing, scrolling, 3D manipulation, and handwriting." So do you think that the new unified MB line will keep conventional keyboards or have an option for a multitouch dual screen (DS) configuration or what? Will the multitouch keyboard be only for the ultraportable? I would love to see a 17" DS.
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post #73 of 81
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by appleeinstein View Post

I would love to see them drop the differentiation between the MB and MBP lines - let me get a base configuration 17" or a superpower 13".

One other thing to consider: from patents like this it's obvious that Apple will be coming out with a multitouch keyboard (they took out another patent that allows the screen to differentiate between contact and pressure and another one that allows for a hidden tactile factor so that you could "feel" the keys) screen for some kind of application. "Unprecedented integration of typing, resting, pointing, scrolling, 3D manipulation, and handwriting." So do you think that the new unified MB line will keep conventional keyboards or have an option for a multitouch dual screen (DS) configuration or what? Will the multitouch keyboard be only for the ultraportable? I would love to see a 17" DS.

A dual-screen device will never be released by Apple. There, I said it.

A desktop with a 12º flat MT keyboard maybe (think 11" X 4.5" high-resolution screen lying almost-flat on desk, capable of displaying anything on it, and when you launch an app you can set it to change to display buttons and present a UI tailored specifically for that app), but when we are talking about a MT portable, I think the writing's on the wall for a single screen MT Mac device, as in a tablet. The whole advantage of MT it that you can get rid of the keyboard, not replace it with a screen. There's a few reasons for this. One, battery life with two screens goes way down, a very bad idea in that regard. Two, if you are going to have a surface separate from the screen most people would simply rather have a physical keyboard.

The whole point of MT is that you can interact with the actual screen itself, and pop-up a keyboard which takes up zero physical space "only" when needed. A space saver, one of the primary importances of a portable, and a new portable personal computer paradigm. Sure on-screen keyboards have been done before, but they weren't done well enough to be taken seriously. The iPhone shows that Apple can pull it off, and on an 11" wide-screen they'll make it even better.

The reasons people (including myself) still buy desktop computers is one, power, and two, screen size. MT on a desktop screen doesn't work because the screen is both too big, and vertical. Touching a big, vertical desktop screen for 5 minutes is tiring, not to mention for a day of work. The separate MT keyboard is an evolution in that regard. The "revolution" is coming on the portable side, even if a MT desktop keyboard may seem like a revolution to some people, and actually would if Apple can find a way to make it also work as a mouse too, thus leap-frogging the mouse problem they have yet to overcome, perhaps by telling it to move the vertical screens' cursor when only one finger rests on it and moves across it? Though I'm not quite sure that would be worth replacing the mouse for, or if it would be near as efficient as the mouse is in the real world.

How would a Mac touch (11" tablet) work in the real world? Well it would be a MT screen with the computer built behind it, it would have SSD internal storage, it "wouldn't" have an optical disk drive, it would be very light, very thin, sweet looking, and it would IMO have a "flip-stand" on that rear, which when "in" would be flush and out of the way, and when flipped out would hold the "Mac touch" at a certain angle when resting upon a tray, a desk or a table that would make it pretty easy to type and look at the screen at the same time, when not using it on your lap, walking around, or sitting on the ground etc.
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post #74 of 81
Quote:
The whole point of MT is that you can interact with the actual screen itself, and pop-up a keyboard which takes up zero physical space "only" when needed. A space saver, one of the primary importances of a portable, and a new portable personal computer paradigm. Sure on-screen keyboards have been done before, but they weren't done well enough to be taken seriously.

The reason for having a full-size virtual keyboard is for touch typing; otherwise it's not a whole lot easier than the iPhone's thumb keyboard. But can you touch type on a keyboard that's on the same 2D plane as your screen?
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post #75 of 81
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by appleeinstein View Post

The reason for having a full-size virtual keyboard is for touch typing; otherwise it's not a whole lot easier than the iPhone's thumb keyboard. But can you touch type on a keyboard that's on the same 2D plane as your screen?

I believe so, and I know several people who can type on the iPhone just fine.
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post #76 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

I believe so, and I know several people who can type on the iPhone just fine.

I know that; I can type on the iPhone at 35 wpm in landscape mode. But I meant touch typing; where you type without looking at the keys (the only way to get much faster than 35 wpm) and all of your fingers rest on the keyboard.

The question is, can you type with both hands (all fingers) on a virtual keyboard that is in the same plane as your screen? Would it be just like a giant iPhone with better multitouch? I'm thinking of something as simple as editing a book report while I'm sitting on the subway. If I can't touch type and still see the screen, then it's no better than an iPhone with MS Word - which will come with the SDK. I'd be happy to edit a book report on my iPhone, but I'd rather do it with a slightly more powerful keyboard.

Honestly, I'm not particularly fond of a Nintendo DS-style dual screen thing either, but a full-power virtual keyboard isn't much use in the same plane as the main screen. I'm sure they can think of a good way to have the keyboard separate from the screen - perhaps a roll-out polychrome epaper display to show what is happening while you are typing on the virtual keyboard? Or maybe (like I suggested in this thread), a dual screen that opens up to form a tablet? You've probably got more ideas than me. I'm just looking at functionality here.
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post #77 of 81
I don't see a problem having an onscreen keyboard. Just have it transparant enough to see what's beneath it. I've already practiced typing like that. I'm more than ok with it.
post #78 of 81
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Originally Posted by Fishyesque View Post

I don't see a problem having an onscreen keyboard. Just have it transparant enough to see what's beneath it. I've already practiced typing like that. I'm more than ok with it.

You've already had a chance to touch type on a virtual keyboard? When? Where? On what? That's awesome!

How does it do any good to have transparent keys appear if your fingers are going to be on top of them?
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post #79 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by appleeinstein View Post

You've already had a chance to touch type on a virtual keyboard? When? Where? On what? That's awesome!

How does it do any good to have transparent keys appear if your fingers are going to be on top of them?

There was this technology fair here, and there was a multitouch display section. I got some good practice in.

Put your fingers on a glass table, or any table for that matter. You can still pretty much see what is going on beneath. I just want the general layout itself to be transparent so that you can still see what's going on beneath.
post #80 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishyesque View Post

There was this technology fair here, and there was a multitouch display section. I got some good practice in.

Put your fingers on a glass table, or any table for that matter. You can still pretty much see what is going on beneath. I just want the general layout itself to be transparent so that you can still see what's going on beneath.

Naturally the general layout would be transparent.

I don't know for sure - I always find the concept of typing on a keyboard with my fingers covering the text entry field a little difficult. I'd have to see.
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