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Possible Bungie departure would open door to Mac games - Page 2

post #41 of 112
10/3/07 at 6:03pm
I don't know what it means, exactly, but certainly it must suggest some change in Mac mindshare when AI starts getting a generous helping of garden variety basement dwelling trolls.

Didn't used to happen much at all, now we seem to get more than a few. The iPhone forum is positively awash.

Maybe AI got linked at mymomsaysshecan'taffordtobuymeamac.com?
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #42 of 112
10/3/07 at 6:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wakashizuma View Post

Mac sucks @ Gaming; Microsoft wipes the floor with Mac when it comes to Gaming. It's kind a sad how the departure of Bungie is considered important news for Mac ROFL
The rumor is not even confirmed and it wont be confirmed!
Sorry Mac, No Halo 3 for you!
And while you guys finish making "home movies" with your iMovie, me and other gamers around the world on PC platform (Funny eh? there are more PC gamers than mac users ROFL) will do some nice multi-player games! Oh wait....there is a chess game in Mac OSX !

And I don't even want to mention that the Chess application that comes with Macs sucks big time (SigmaChess is a much better alternative). I remember when I bought my iMac, and me being a big chess fan and all, the first application that I launched after setting up my computer was Chess.app... you may not believe it, but it actually crashed the whole computer (had to force a reset) as soon as it tried to load a new game.
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post #43 of 112
10/3/07 at 6:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by pomo View Post

You are so naive to think that there are more PC gamers than Mac users.
How's this....Prove it.

He doesn't need to prove something that is obvious to anyone who has a clue. I'm sorry, but it's the simple truth.

If you do want to do some maths, then take into account that the Mac share is about 5% at best. If there are more Mac users than gamers, that would mean that less than 6% of Windows/Linux users are gamers... duh!
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post #44 of 112
10/3/07 at 6:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

A very unusual crowd came out for this story.

Let me get this right, buy an expensive computer AND an expensive console is a better solution than an a properly spec'd expensive computer that can do both. The dual system setup had better be much better because it's a lot more expensive overall.

What I'm trying to say is this.

want games-buy console

simple as that.

Personally, I rather play games on a console instead of playing on my PC because its a waste of HD. Imagine having 10+ games, that's like 100GB. Besides, you get a better gaming experience with a console anyways.

BTW, the only reason I got on Mr. Awesome McArseome's case was because I'm just plain tired of PC kids who arrogantly post nonsense (and think they proved a point ) on this forum.
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post #45 of 112
10/3/07 at 6:18pm
Damn, I remember when all of Bill's fans were squealing "the only thing Macs are good for is playing games"

It doesn't matter if Steve made a machine that printed legal tender, there are a heck of a lot of folks out there that would want to piss on it cause it only printed $100.00's

Get over it.
OMG here we go again...
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OMG here we go again...
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post #46 of 112
10/3/07 at 6:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by deanbar View Post

If you think people specifically buy a Mac to play games on, you're nuts. Horses for courses, as another poster said, why splash out on a specced out PC when you could buy a PS3 for a fraction of the price, or some other games console. Says a lot about your life - get a life.

Of course nobody buys a Mac to specifically play games on, simply because everyone knows Macs suck at games. The trend is not likely to change unless Apple does something about it.

And for f***'s sake, stop saying that gamers don't have a life, playing games is actually a lot better for your brains than sitting in front of the tv watching some stupid reality tv show, and millions are getting dumber by the minute...
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post #47 of 112
10/3/07 at 6:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by pomo View Post


First of all, I never said that macs were better than PC's when it comes to gaming. I said that that there are more Mac users than PC gamers, which you said the opposite earlier.

Also, I said that playing PC games is pointless because console games are WAY BETTER than pc games. nuff said. You're hopeless

I'm a Mac owner (writing this on a C2D iMac), but I think you're full of crap on both points. I'm fairly certain the PC gaming market is probably several times bigger than the Mac community is.

And no, console games are NOT better than PC/computer games. Most console games are stripped down, common denominator affairs (not much you can do with just the few buttons a console controller provides).

And to mrpiddly, what a dumb a** statement to make stating that someone should take a Mac Pro and shove 2 8800 video cards then boot into Windows to play games. Why not simply save about $2K and skip the Mac Pro and just get a regular PC and shove those two cards into it? In fact the assertion that by ANYONE that someone wanting to play games on a Mac should just use Bootcamp to run Windows is a completely idiotic statement. What is the point in the end?

Sorry, but if you look past the immaturity in his statements, Wakashizuma has some pretty valid points about the pathetic state of gaming on the Mac. Maybe as someone stated in the thread about Valve's statement that it is sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy of sorts that most Mac purchasers know the Mac's strengths are in Audio/Video/Photography creation and not gaming and thus gamers (or even those just generally interested in gaming) avoid the Mac.
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post #48 of 112
10/3/07 at 6:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by camimac View Post

He doesn't need to prove something that is obvious to anyone who has a clue. I'm sorry, but it's the simple truth.

If you do want to do some maths, then take into account that the Mac share is about 5% at best. If there are more Mac users than gamers, that would mean that less than 6% of Windows/Linux users are gamers... duh!

Being a gamer doesn't equal to someone who plays oregon trail on a PC. (I miss that game ). You forget that most computers are used in offices. That does not represent your average consumer let alone PC gamers.
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post #49 of 112
10/3/07 at 6:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kim kap sol View Post

What does it matter anymore...

Alex Seropian and most of the original Bungie team left a long time ago to form Wideload, leaving Jason "Kiss Ass" Jones as the only remaining original Bungie developer in the hands of MS. I dunno how much Jason had an impact on the Pathway into Darkness story, the Marathon story or the Myth story but I'm guessing not that much. I think Jason Jones was the lead programmer so all the creative goodness went to Wideload. It kinda shows too. The Halo serie had a somewhat lackluster storyline.

The multiplayer aspect of Halo is excellent but...so was Marathon's and Myth's multiplayer...the multiplayer games are pretty much a direct copy of the previous games (King of the Hill, Kill the Man with the Ball, etc.)

I've never really played Oni (developed by Bungie West I believe and they had development problems that really put a damper on things...multiplayer dropped and levels that felt incomplete according to people that had played the game). I haven't really played Wideload's Stubb the Zombie...I heard it wasn't all that good but it sure was original in a sense.

Anyway...I don't feel like anything good will ever come out of Bungie ever again (or even Wideload)...even if they both produce Mac games. Although, I'm sure they would make more money than most game companies. I mean, if it says Bungie or Blizzard on the box it usually is a good game. And Bungie's games (cept for Oni and PiD) always had solid multiplayer (which seems to be the only thing people care about nowadays.)

Haha.. so funny to listen to someone denegrate one of the all-time best game designers.

jason was (literally) 100% of PiD (ok he didn't do all the art), minotaur, and such a huge influence on the other early bungie games that what you say is comical. He is one of the more creative people i've met.
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post #50 of 112
10/3/07 at 6:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4metta View Post

Um...you left out Episode 2 as well as Portal. And how about Counter Stirke and Day of Defeat? The most insane fun in online play. It's more about quality than quantity anyway. And Valve quality has been unmatched by Bungie. Be it in graphics or storyline.

Yeah I bought Halo 3 and I have fun playing it, but to compare it to Half Life 2 would be absurd. I am sorry but aliens that bleed blue blood and sound like little children make the series way too kiddish compared to Half Life. Bungie also really dropped the ball in the graphics department with Halo3. Extremely underwhelming. It's one thing to argue that you need to keep graphics down when taking the scale of outdoor battle scenes into account but there is absolutely no excuse for the piss poor graphics during the cutscenes. They also have no platform excuse because Bioshock 3 and Gears Of War are both games that play on the same platform that are also older. They look much better than Halo3 and I am willing to bet Bungie had a lot more money at their disposal for development. They have no excuse for not wowing us with the graphics. What sold this game was hype. What sells Valve games is quality and content.


Cheers.

I highly disagree with you. I believe Bungie's quality of game's has gone unmatched by Valve.

The Halo storyline, all of the storyline, is simply amazing. What Bungie has that many other game companies lack is humor. I love grunts, I love killing grunts, I love listening to the "You killed my family!" in the high-pitched scream. While any game can awe with graphics or a completely serious storyline, no game has made me laugh as hard as Halo, have my adrenaline spike as much as it does when I'm playing Halo, or tense in anticipation from what may happen next in the Halo storyline.

Piss poor graphics during cutscenes? Bungie specifically has said "Yes, the cutscenes could have been much better graphics, CGI, yet we are using the actual game engine and can render the cutscenes in real-time." Why? They want the transition from game to cutscene and back to game to be as seamless as they could make it. And i agree with them. I hate games where you think "Oh man, those graphics are so sweet in that cutscene! Look at the facial expressions and how realistic they look." only to then have a load time between cutscene and game and then see to your disappointment that the graphics aren't like that ALL the time.

Gears of War and Bioshock never had the same effect on me as the HDR lighting and forested envirenments that Halo did. GoW's grey palette scheme just put a damper on the game. Was it good for the depressing scenario they were trying to set up? Yes. Did it make me feel like I was walking through a real city? No.

What sells Halo is it's fun factor. It doesn't have the most realistic graphics, or actions, yet I've never had a better time playing a game than I have had while playing Halo with 11 other friends on System Link. And then watching the game again with everyone afterwards with the amazing saved-film feature.
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post #51 of 112
10/3/07 at 7:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by caliminius View Post

I'm a Mac owner (writing this on a C2D iMac), but I think you're full of crap on both points. I'm fairly certain the PC gaming market is probably several times bigger than the Mac community is.

And no, console games are NOT better than PC/computer games. Most console games are stripped down, common denominator affairs (not much you can do with just the few buttons a console controller provides).

Okay I admit it, I have one game on a PC. The game is Final Fantasy XI . Frankly, I rather play this game with a controller that resembles the one that looks like the Playstation's controller. Based on personal experience, I think playing on the keyboard is so limiting and frustrating. The only thing QWERTY is good for is for what it was made for- to type. Besides, I don't want to be swinging QWERTY around the same way that I would a wii controller .

Another reason why I mentioned FFXI is because FFXIII is coming sometime in the future. PC's will not in a long time be able to tame a game of such processor engine (did I word that right?). So based on this, here is my verdict:

better experience-console
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post #52 of 112
10/3/07 at 7:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by caliminius View Post

I'm a Mac owner (writing this on a C2D iMac), but I think you're full of crap on both points. I'm fairly certain the PC gaming market is probably several times bigger than the Mac community is.

Several times bigger than 10M? If you include casual gaming that covers flash based web games for sure. Hard core gamers? Given that PC gaming has been on the decline since 1999 I dunno. 38M units sold in the US in 2005. Assuming every single sale was to a different individual sure. That ain't too likely though.

Quote:
And no, console games are NOT better than PC/computer games. Most console games are stripped down, common denominator affairs (not much you can do with just the few buttons a console controller provides).

The US console market was $4.8B in 2006. The US PC game market was $970M in 2006.

The market disagrees that PC games are better than console games.


Quote:
Sorry, but if you look past the immaturity in his statements, Wakashizuma has some pretty valid points about the pathetic state of gaming on the Mac. Maybe as someone stated in the thread about Valve's statement that it is sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy of sorts that most Mac purchasers know the Mac's strengths are in Audio/Video/Photography creation and not gaming and thus gamers (or even those just generally interested in gaming) avoid the Mac.

Certainly games are an afterthought on the Mac. On the other hand, every time I visit the local Game Stop it seems the PC games are stuffed into an ever smaller space. Currently it looks how the old Mac Games section looked (one freestanding bookshelf). That is not what I call an over promising sign.

Which is kinda sad because I like mods. On the other hand XNA for the 360 scratches that itch.

Vinea
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post #53 of 112
10/3/07 at 7:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4metta View Post

Original or not they work. Mods are fun and play as different games. I didn't even bother to list all the 3rd party mods but now that you bring that up it should be mentioned. All the 3rd party mods are a blast to play as well and Valve has always encouraged people to do 3rd party mods. And you can get them all on Steam with daily updates to code when needed. Sort of what Xbox360 is doing now with XBox Live. They copied Steam and that idea works beautifully. You cannot deny that Valve has done A LOT to push the envelope in PC gaming technology in many ways.

And Steam copied someone else who copied someone else....come on, you don't really think Steam invented modding do you?
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post #54 of 112
10/3/07 at 7:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by pomo View Post

Being a gamer doesn't equal to someone who plays oregon trail on a PC. (I miss that game ). You forget that most computers are used in offices. That does not represent your average consumer let alone PC gamers.

In a way what you say is true (not to mention the gazillion PCs used as cash tills), but that doesn't mean that if you compare what is comparable (i.e. home mac users versus home pc users), then pc gamers make up for many times the installed mac based.
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post #55 of 112
10/3/07 at 7:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by freakboy View Post

Haha.. so funny to listen to someone denegrate one of the all-time best game designers.

jason was (literally) 100% of PiD (ok he didn't do all the art), minotaur, and such a huge influence on the other early bungie games that what you say is comical. He is one of the more creative people i've met.

Ok, I assumed he wasn't 'one of the more creative' Bungie originals since I feel like Halo is such a poor game story-wise. PiD, Marathon and Myth were engrossing. They had depth. Halo doesn't. Isn't that weird? I mean, he's the project leader and it's the worst game they've released. Odd don't you think? And every game that Seropian touched had a rich storyline.
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post #56 of 112
10/3/07 at 7:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

The US console market was $4.8B in 2006. The US PC game market was $970M in 2006.

The market disagrees that PC games are better than console games.

Just because the console market outsells the PC game market doesn't make it better. I mean, just look at Windows!
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post #57 of 112
10/3/07 at 7:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kim kap sol View Post

Ok, I assumed he wasn't 'one of the more creative' Bungie originals since I feel like Halo is such a poor game story-wise. PiD, Marathon and Myth were engrossing. They had depth. Halo doesn't. Isn't that weird? I mean, he's the project leader and it's the worst game they've released. Odd don't you think? And every game that Seropian touched had a rich storyline.

Personally I think the story-line is very deep (though I have had the additional readings of the books to add to it). And Seropian had influenced Halo 1 very much. Actually it's his own game engine the Halo runs on...
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post #58 of 112
10/3/07 at 7:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by camimac View Post

Just because the console market outsells the PC game market doesn't make it better. I mean, just look at Windows!

Better is in the eye of the beholder. Just be sure to make your save.

The limits of a controller aren't all that severe. Especially with voice chat.
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post #59 of 112
10/3/07 at 7:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow Slayer 26 View Post

Personally I think the story-line is very deep (though I have had the additional readings of the books to add to it). And Seropian had influenced Halo 1 very much. Actually it's his own game engine the Halo runs on...

Anyway...I'm not saying Jason Jones sucks. He's very talented. So is Alex Seropian. They were a good combo. But it seems they've both changed. I find Halo terrible and I didn't feel compelled to play Stubbs. Seems like ever since they've gone their own ways, the games weren't as funny or interesting or have any engrossing storylines. I know you'll disagree but that's how I feel. Halo feels rushed...almost like there was a larger company breathing down the developer's necks and tapping its foot at them in impatience.

Vivendi did the same to Blizzard with WoW...it happens all the time when you're part of a larger 'family'.
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post #60 of 112
10/3/07 at 7:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kim kap sol View Post

Anyway...I'm not saying Jason Jones sucks. He's very talented. So is Alex Seropian. They were a good combo. But it seems they've both changed. I find Halo terrible and I didn't feel compelled to play Stubbs. Seems like ever since they've gone their own ways, the games weren't as funny or interesting or have any engrossing storylines. I know you'll disagree but that's how I feel. Halo feels rushed...almost like there was a larger company breathing down the developer's necks and tapping its foot at them in impatience.

Vivendi did the same to Blizzard with WoW...it happens all the time when you're part of a larger 'family'.

Surprisingly I don't disagree. Halo 2 was extremely rushed....Halo 3, there was room for improvement with time.

I rented Stubbs, wasn't too impressed. I'd love to see Seropian and Jones get back together again....who knows, maybe it was that mix of minds that made their games so great.

And I can sadly say I have not played through all of the Marathon games, so I can't say about overall storyline, but yes, the storyline on those games did seem better.

However, I still believe that by any standard the Halo games are some of the best games ever made, especially with the advancements in Multiplayer and the revolutionary control scheme for a console FPS (ie. one that worked).
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post #61 of 112
10/3/07 at 8:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kim kap sol View Post

Anyway...I'm not saying Jason Jones sucks. He's very talented. So is Alex Seropian. They were a good combo. But it seems they've both changed. I find Halo terrible and I didn't feel compelled to play Stubbs. Seems like ever since they've gone their own ways, the games weren't as funny or interesting or have any engrossing storylines. I know you'll disagree but that's how I feel. Halo feels rushed...almost like there was a larger company breathing down the developer's necks and tapping its foot at them in impatience.

Vivendi did the same to Blizzard with WoW...it happens all the time when you're part of a larger 'family'.

yeah you got it backward. Alex was more of the biz side of early bungie. Jason was a vital (not only) of the creative side. Alex had a big influence on the marathon games b/c he did a ton of the sounds for them.

I don't have much opinion about halo since i haven't played it much. The game dev groups for the marathons were < 10 people tops. More like 5-8. How many people worked on Halo? 300? One pereson's input is going to be less.
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post #62 of 112
10/3/07 at 9:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by freakboy View Post

The game dev groups for the marathons were < 10 people tops. More like 5-8. How many people worked on Halo? 300? One pereson's input is going to be less.

However much of the 'Haloverse' was there before the game was created. They supposedly have a Halo 'Bible' which has hundreds of pages of information on all sorts of things Halo, as well as brief (and sometimes in-depth) history over the years of the Haloverse. For example they released parts of it on many of the weapons and vehicles in the game. Much of this work was originally done early on and was later edited slightly as need be.

Can you guys tell I'm a bit of a Bungie fan?
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post #63 of 112
10/3/07 at 9:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wakashizuma View Post

Mac sucks @ Gaming; Microsoft wipes the floor with Mac when it comes to Gaming. It's kind a sad how the departure of Bungie is considered important news for Mac ROFL
The rumor is not even confirmed and it wont be confirmed!
Sorry Mac, No Halo 3 for you!
And while you guys finish making "home movies" with your iMovie, me and other gamers around the world on PC platform (Funny eh? there are more PC gamers than mac users ROFL) will do some nice multi-player games! Oh wait....there is a chess game in Mac OSX !

Sorry guys, but Wakashizuma is right.. Mac is not great at Gaming at all. I think MAC should just stay as a machine for designing Graphics and audio/film editing. They shouldn't be a machine to play games. You guys want to play games? Go buy a PC.
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post #64 of 112
10/3/07 at 9:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wakashizuma View Post

Mac sucks @ Gaming; Microsoft wipes the floor with Mac when it comes to Gaming. It's kind a sad how the departure of Bungie is considered important news for Mac ROFL
The rumor is not even confirmed and it wont be confirmed!
Sorry Mac, No Halo 3 for you!
And while you guys finish making "home movies" with your iMovie, me and other gamers around the world on PC platform (Funny eh? there are more PC gamers than mac users ROFL) will do some nice multi-player games! Oh wait....there is a chess game in Mac OSX !

Funny how for years PC users referred to Macs as "toys" but it looks like the only thing PCs are good for anymore is playing games.
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post #65 of 112
10/3/07 at 10:08pm
I haven't played a video game in years. Seriously people, move out of your parent's basement and grow up.
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post #66 of 112
10/3/07 at 10:14pm
It's hard to figure who is the bigger idiot(s).

The original troll or those responding to him.
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post #67 of 112
10/3/07 at 10:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wakashizuma View Post

Mac sucks @ Gaming; Microsoft wipes the floor with Mac when it comes to Gaming. It's kind a sad how the departure of Bungie is considered important news for Mac ROFL
The rumor is not even confirmed and it wont be confirmed!
Sorry Mac, No Halo 3 for you!
And while you guys finish making "home movies" with your iMovie, me and other gamers around the world on PC platform (Funny eh? there are more PC gamers than mac users ROFL) will do some nice multi-player games! Oh wait....there is a chess game in Mac OSX !

To your credit, you did say the Mac only sucks at gaming.

Game development: done on a Mac
Blockbuster Films in HD, SD and CGI: done on a Mac
Independent Movie Projects: done on a Mac
Software Development: done on a Mac
Console Game Development: done on a Mac
Biotech Research: done on a Mac
Website Design: done on a Mac
TV Production: done on a Mac
Audio Production: done on a Mac
Stage Production: done on a Mac
The Creation of the Earth: well, okay not necessarily done on a Mac

The list is very, very long. Would I be wrong in pointing out that you consume the products produce by the Macintosh platform? I wonder if I would. I am sure you don't really care about the capabilities of the Mac or the PC. You just wanted to bait us Mac users right? Well done. Because if you cared about the art of electronic technology, computer technology and operating systems you wouldn't have said what you said in my view. But welcome anyway.

X
UNKNOWN LEVEL: MAC OS X
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UNKNOWN LEVEL: MAC OS X
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post #68 of 112
10/3/07 at 10:34pm
Haha, last time I saw this same flame war was when the first halo finally came out for mac.

Seriously, if you want to play games and have a mac, bootcamp works just fine. Maybe apple will be able to bring OSX back into the game scene if they can come up with something on the level of directX (maybe the latest version of OpenGL? dunno)

Personally since i still have a powerpc I use a separate PC to do any gaming and or windows related things. But lets just face it, there really isnt much of a future in Windows, both as a gaming platform (see discussion of size of market vs console) or as an evolving and new operating system (see failure that is vista). Mac OS is just so much more stable and useable and is continuing to grow, maybe Apple will go back to interest in games.

As far as Bungie is concerned, I think it would be great if they can expand some of their previous IP or make something new. Halo and Marathon are pretty much played out (unless they would finally tie them together). If they could do something with Oni, that would be amazing (one of the best game concepts of all time IMHO). However, seeing as they have not come up with anything new in about a decade, we will just have to wait and see.
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post #69 of 112
10/3/07 at 11:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post


The US console market was $4.8B in 2006. The US PC game market was $970M in 2006.

Of course, that doesn't include things like subscription fees from MMORPGs.

World of Warcraft, a computer game, clears $1 billion a year in continuing subscriptions all by itself. So the 4.8 billion vs 1 billion figure is a bit misleading... it isn't quite that one-sided. \

.
Cut-copy-paste, MMS, landscape keyboard, video-recording, voice-calling, and more... FINALLY
To the 'We Didn't Need It' Crowd/Apple Apologista Squad : Wrong again, lol
Thanks for listening to your...
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Cut-copy-paste, MMS, landscape keyboard, video-recording, voice-calling, and more... FINALLY
To the 'We Didn't Need It' Crowd/Apple Apologista Squad : Wrong again, lol
Thanks for listening to your...
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post #70 of 112
10/4/07 at 1:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4metta View Post

Original or not they work. Mods are fun and play as different games. I didn't even bother to list all the 3rd party mods but now that you bring that up it should be mentioned. All the 3rd party mods are a blast to play as well and Valve has always encouraged people to do 3rd party mods. And you can get them all on Steam with daily updates to code when needed. Sort of what Xbox360 is doing now with XBox Live. They copied Steam and that idea works beautifully. You cannot deny that Valve has done A LOT to push the envelope in PC gaming technology in many ways.

Yeah, thats right, microsoft copied steam:
"Steam's development began at an uncertain date prior to 2002. Prior to 'Steam', its codenames were 'Grid' and 'Gazelle'. It was revealed to the public on 22 March 2002 at the Game Developers Conference and was presented purely as a distribution network: no mention of purchases was made."

Sure they did, when xbox live had already been around for 2 years, proviging online gaming, game and content updates/downloads. Oh, and game news on the xbox live window. How dare microsoft time travel and steal valve's steam.
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post #71 of 112
10/4/07 at 2:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow Slayer 26 View Post

I highly disagree with you. I believe Bungie's quality of game's has gone unmatched by Valve.

The Halo storyline, all of the storyline, is simply amazing. What Bungie has that many other game companies lack is humor. I love grunts, I love killing grunts, I love listening to the "You killed my family!" in the high-pitched scream. While any game can awe with graphics or a completely serious storyline, no game has made me laugh as hard as Halo, have my adrenaline spike as much as it does when I'm playing Halo, or tense in anticipation from what may happen next in the Halo storyline.

Piss poor graphics during cutscenes? Bungie specifically has said "Yes, the cutscenes could have been much better graphics, CGI, yet we are using the actual game engine and can render the cutscenes in real-time." Why? They want the transition from game to cutscene and back to game to be as seamless as they could make it. And i agree with them. I hate games where you think "Oh man, those graphics are so sweet in that cutscene! Look at the facial expressions and how realistic they look." only to then have a load time between cutscene and game and then see to your disappointment that the graphics aren't like that ALL the time.

Gears of War and Bioshock never had the same effect on me as the HDR lighting and forested envirenments that Halo did. GoW's grey palette scheme just put a damper on the game. Was it good for the depressing scenario they were trying to set up? Yes. Did it make me feel like I was walking through a real city? No.

What sells Halo is it's fun factor. It doesn't have the most realistic graphics, or actions, yet I've never had a better time playing a game than I have had while playing Halo with 11 other friends on System Link. And then watching the game again with everyone afterwards with the amazing saved-film feature.


http://www.38studios.com/

With Todd McFarlene, R.A. Salvatore and gobs of talent I hope 38 Studios produces the MOPGs there talent is capable of producing.
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post #72 of 112
10/4/07 at 2:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow Slayer 26 View Post

I highly disagree with you. I believe Bungie's quality of game's has gone unmatched by Valve.

The Halo storyline, all of the storyline, is simply amazing. What Bungie has that many other game companies lack is humor. I love grunts, I love killing grunts, I love listening to the "You killed my family!" in the high-pitched scream. While any game can awe with graphics or a completely serious storyline, no game has made me laugh as hard as Halo, have my adrenaline spike as much as it does when I'm playing Halo, or tense in anticipation from what may happen next in the Halo storyline.

Piss poor graphics during cutscenes? Bungie specifically has said "Yes, the cutscenes could have been much better graphics, CGI, yet we are using the actual game engine and can render the cutscenes in real-time." Why? They want the transition from game to cutscene and back to game to be as seamless as they could make it. And i agree with them. I hate games where you think "Oh man, those graphics are so sweet in that cutscene! Look at the facial expressions and how realistic they look." only to then have a load time between cutscene and game and then see to your disappointment that the graphics aren't like that ALL the time.

Gears of War and Bioshock never had the same effect on me as the HDR lighting and forested envirenments that Halo did. GoW's grey palette scheme just put a damper on the game. Was it good for the depressing scenario they were trying to set up? Yes. Did it make me feel like I was walking through a real city? No.

What sells Halo is it's fun factor. It doesn't have the most realistic graphics, or actions, yet I've never had a better time playing a game than I have had while playing Halo with 11 other friends on System Link. And then watching the game again with everyone afterwards with the amazing saved-film feature.


I guess we'll agree to disagree. To each their own.


I don't like my aliens to squeak and be funny. I like my aliens scary and dark like the Aliens movies. The Halo series is more akin to the last Star Wars prequel trilogy. I don't want Jar Jar Binks and that's what the Grunts in the Halo series remind me off. I also like my violence more realistic and prefer them to bleed red blood instead of blue goo.


I don't buy any excuse they can dish out for the underwhelming graphics. None are good enough. They had the money and time but they came up short. Enough people feel this way that's it's become an issue. The lighting effects help but I still wanted more while playing the campaign.

BUT I will agree with you on the multiplayer aspect. I do enjoy that online multi with 16 people. Reminds me of my Counter Strike or Day of Defeats days with about 32 people playing at the same time. (I love that nonstop action) I find it frustrating that Gears limits you to 8. You can never fit all your friends in at the same time. I also get a kick of the exagerrated physics of the game. Pretty damn funny to blow up your friend's warthog 50 feet in the air with him in it and then replay it later. Only thing that sucks is how long it takes to fast forward to a specific point in the saved videos. I gave up looking for that perfect scene so many times now.

Do I think the Halo series is trash? No way. I play Halo3 but it's definitely not one of my favorite games at all mostly because of the "cuteness".
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post #73 of 112
10/4/07 at 2:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by irnchriz View Post

Yeah, thats right, microsoft copied steam:
"Steam's development began at an uncertain date prior to 2002. Prior to 'Steam', its codenames were 'Grid' and 'Gazelle'. It was revealed to the public on 22 March 2002 at the Game Developers Conference and was presented purely as a distribution network: no mention of purchases was made."

Sure they did, when xbox live had already been around for 2 years, proviging online gaming, game and content updates/downloads. Oh, and game news on the xbox live window. How dare microsoft time travel and steal valve's steam.



No. Xbox Live started in November 2002. Look it up.
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post #74 of 112
10/4/07 at 2:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by pomo View Post

What I'm trying to say is this.

want games-buy console

simple as that.

Personally, I rather play games on a console instead of playing on my PC because its a waste of HD. Imagine having 10+ games, that's like 100GB. Besides, you get a better gaming experience with a console anyways.


I still don't get how anybody still says that consoles are better than PCs for gaming. There is really no comparison.


EDIT: Nevermind I now understand why:

Quote:
Originally Posted by pomo View Post

Okay I admit it, I have one game on a PC. The game is Final Fantasy XI . Frankly, I rather play this game with a controller that resembles the one that looks like the Playstation's controller. Based on personal experience, I think playing on the keyboard is so limiting and frustrating.

FWIW, it takes time to get used to any controller but once you get used to the keyboard you will have many more options that can also be customizable. Took me quite a while to get used to the Xbox 360 controller coming from the PC but with a bit of time I got there. Although I have to say I still think aiming with my RAZER mouse will always be more accurate than the Xbox controller.
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post #75 of 112
10/4/07 at 2:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow Slayer 26 View Post

Can you guys tell I'm a bit of a Bungie fan?


You don't say...
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post #76 of 112
10/4/07 at 2:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow Slayer 26 View Post

And Steam copied someone else who copied someone else....come on, you don't really think Steam invented modding do you?



When did I say Valve invented modding?
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post #77 of 112
10/4/07 at 5:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

Several times bigger than 10M? If you include casual gaming that covers flash based web games for sure. Hard core gamers? Given that PC gaming has been on the decline since 1999 I dunno. 38M units sold in the US in 2005. Assuming every single sale was to a different individual sure. That ain't too likely though.

To me, you're just trying to segregate gamers into different levels in an effort to shrink the market. Seems you're concept is that gamers = hard core gamers (whatever that really means). Gamers play games, simple as that. Whether it be what I suppose would be considered a "hard-core" game like Unreal Tournament or Elder Scrolls Oblivion or a "casual game" like The Sims or the thousand variants of Diner Dash, they are all gamers.

Quote:
The US console market was $4.8B in 2006. The US PC game market was $970M in 2006.

The market disagrees that PC games are better than console games.

If you consider that the PC is another gaming platform, then PC games did just as well (if not better) than any other plaform. Against the Xbox 360, Sony PS2, Sony PS3, Sony PSP, Nintendo DS, Nintendo Wii, and whatever remains of the Xbox, PS1, Gamecube and Gameboy markets, the PC platform managed revenue equal to 20% of those combined sales. Sounds like games on the PC platform sell pretty darned well.

Doesn't really appear to me that the market agrees that console games are better.

Quote:
Certainly games are an afterthought on the Mac.

Actually, it's pretty clear that games don't even rank as an afterthought to Apple. For example, sure there's a link on the Apple homepage about EA's new "Mac" games. Going to the page you'll find this funny quote: "For best game performance, Apple recommends Intel-based Macs."

Considering that the page is dedicated to the new EA games, and none of those will run on non-Intel Macs, doesn't it seem like Apple should point that out right there?

Quote:
On the other hand, every time I visit the local Game Stop it seems the PC games are stuffed into an ever smaller space. Currently it looks how the old Mac Games section looked (one freestanding bookshelf). That is not what I call an over promising sign.

Which is kinda sad because I like mods. On the other hand XNA for the 360 scratches that itch.

And when I visit my local Best Buy, Circuit City, and even Walmart, I see equal shelf space given to PC games as I do any other platform. Again, if you combine the consoles as one big mass, PC games are dwarfed when it comes to shelf space. But that also is pretty disingenuous. Gamestop is pretty focused on console games (since it's a lot easier to sell a console than a computer).
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post #78 of 112
10/4/07 at 6:16am
  • e1618978
  • will burn in the Fiery Pit of Hell.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

A very unusual crowd came out for this story.

Let me get this right, buy an expensive computer AND an expensive console is a better solution than an a properly spec'd expensive computer that can do both. The dual system setup had better be much better because it's a lot more expensive overall.

There are still some games that I would like to play on the PC that are not available on consoles and macs. If WoW was PC only, I would have to get a PC.

You really might need to own everything (PC, Mac, ps3, ps2 if your ps3 is the one without hardware ps2 support, wii, xbox - since 360 emulation sucks, and xbox360), depending on what your tastes are.

I can see the PC gamer boy's point, since if you can't (or don't want to) get everything, then you either drop the Mac (if PC games are really important to you) or the PC (if using windows makes you puke). I dropped the PC, he dropped the Mac - just a different set of priorities.
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
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post #79 of 112
10/4/07 at 6:24am
Console Gaming:

-more variety, no settings or specifications to mess with, RTS and FPS aren't as good without mouse and keyboard

PC Gaming:

-best graphics, the BEST way to play FPS and RTS, lack of variety, especially by Japanese software developers


Personally, I prefer console gaming because I never have to worry about system specifications (put disc in, play game) and software comes from a variety of genres from a lot of companies that either:

A.) don't do PC gaming

or

B.) take long to port over said games (sometimes the ports are sloppy, see Capcom games)

Good thing I'm just a casual fan of FPS or I'd be inclined to ditch the controller for a superior mouse and keyboard setup on a high end PC
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post #80 of 112
10/4/07 at 6:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBaggins View Post

Of course, that doesn't include things like subscription fees from MMORPGs.

World of Warcraft, a computer game, clears $1 billion a year in continuing subscriptions all by itself. So the 4.8 billion vs 1 billion figure is a bit misleading... it isn't quite that one-sided. \

.

Sure, they are only talking about box sales and not recurring income. Dunno how much Live brings in to MS but it's not likely all that.

MMORPGs and high end FPS, RTS are the bastions of PC gaming. MMORPGs tend to play fine on a Mac. That leaves high end FPS and RTS. With DX10 still locked to Vista and Vista not exactly roaring off the shelves...

While it is very unlikely that the hard code PC gaming market is several times the size the Mac market it is obvious for the console market. 117M units worldwide for the PS2 alone. Compared to the 22M (according to the March AI article) Apple installed base.

With only 32M US box sales in 2005 I now doubt that the PC gamer market is larger than the Mac market given that most of that 22M Apple base is in the US as well. With the PS3 and Wii also on the market I suspect that while revenues might have grown in 2006 the total unit sales didn't grow much.

I've rambled long enough. The point is that PC box sales indicate that PC gaming is not all that and of the major strengths on that platform the big moneymaker (WoW) runs on the Mac. Others will run in Bootcamp.

So if you aren't a hardcore FPS or RTS gamer the PC game advantage is largely illusory if you happen to also be a console owner.

Vinea
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