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The Real Reason to Sue Apple in a Class Action.

post #1 of 36
Thread Starter 
Please don't flame me, I am an iphone owner who has come to some conclusions regarding the expectations set by Steve Jobs and the actual product. The Iphone was compared to a smartphone in the Steve Jobs Keynote. It was actually compared to 4 smartphones. There is no way this phone is a smart phone for the following reasons:

1. No file system
2. No way to add local apps.
3. No cut and paste
4. No to do list function.
5. No tethering paid for or not.
6. No adding internet plug-ins to Safari
7. No way to edit word and excel files
8. No video recording
9. No way to safely unlock the device and avoid $2 overseas roaming.
10. No internet messaging client
11. No games(picky I know, but what phone does not have a single game?)




Steve Jobs of APPLE MISLEAD BY COMPARING THE IPHONE TO SMARTPHONES. The iphone is a beautiful device that contains a video ipod with a regular phone. Even if we were to compare the phone function to a regular phone we would be missing many functions.

I think the Iphone is like a supermodel girlfriend she will let you buy her anything(ie roaming charges, itunes), but she not very open minded in bed(not a smartphone, no unlocking).

Henry.

P.S Definition of smartphone according to Wikipedia:

"A smartphone is a full-featured mobile phone with personal computer like functionality. Most smartphones are cellphones that support full featured email capabilities with the functionality of a complete personal organizer. An important feature of most smartphones is that applications for enhanced data processing and connectivity can be installed on the device,[1] in contrast to regular phones which support sandboxed applications"

**AND**
"Smartphones can be noted by several features which include, but are not limited to, touchscreen, operating system, and tethered modem capabilities on top of the default phone characteristics. Full-fledged email support seems to be a characteristic key defining feature found in all existing and announced smartphones as of 2007. Most smartphones also allow the user to install extra software, even from third party sources, but some phones vendors like to refer to their phones as "smartphones" even without this feature."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smartphone

The Iphone is 'sandboxed' like a typical non-smart cell phone, but probably worse in that it cannot even be reversed with some low risk hacking.

BTW I am not trolling, I am serious.
post #2 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heny Woodward View Post

I am an iphone owner who has come to some conclusions regarding the expectations set by Steve Jobs and the actual product. The Iphone was compared to a smartphone in the Steve Jobs Keynote. It was actually compared to 4 smartphones. There is no way this phone is a smart phone for the following reasons:

1. No file system
2. No way to add local apps.
3. No cut and paste
4. No to do list function.
5. No tethering paid for or not.
6. No adding internet plug-ins to Safari
7. No way to edit word and excel files
8. No video recording
9. No way to safely unlock the device and avoid $2 overseas roaming.
10. Feel free to add to this list.


Steve Jobs of APPLE MISLEAD BY COMPARING THE IPHONE TO SMARTPHONES. The iphone is a beautiful device that contains a video ipod with a regular phone. Even if we were to compare the phone function to a regular phone we would be missing many functions.

You are completely correct with 90% of what you stated above. The real question is are the features you are talking about going to come to the iPhone very soon. This is just software changes on the most part any many of these features will come in the form of firmware upgrades.

As for 3rd party apps you will see those also they are going to be sold within iTunes and controlled by Apple.

So by the time your case gets to a court it will not hold water anymore. This is a new device for Apple and I like you would love to see everything right now but that is just not going to happen.

Just wait and you will have many new toys to use on your iPhone this I am sure of.
post #3 of 36
I think you have an excellent idea I believe there are like-minded individuals here that will join you in your attempts to correct the travesty that was the iPhone keynote. You have found a home AND a group of people I'm sure will follow you to victory against those who dare defy the gospel according to Wikipedia. All this after only one post! Your display of intellect is inspiring to many, I am sure. I know you inspired me.

Your mind is like a supermodel girlfriend in that your vacuous display is both amazing and impressive...in bed.

I salute you.
post #4 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heny Woodward View Post

The Iphone was compared to a smartphone in the Steve Jobs Keynote. It was actually compared to 4 smartphones.

How can Apple be held legally liable for meeting generalized expectations for a vaguely defined product category? I'd love to have a lot of the features that you want too -- and I'd love to see hacks to make those possible -- but Apple made it pretty clear to consumers what an iPhone could and could not do.

If you bought an iPhone actually expecting all (or even most) of the things some other smartphones do, you weren't paying attention and Apple can hardly be blamed for that.

BTW, I discovered that I can take the SIM card out of my iPhone, put it in my old Windows Mobile 5 smartphone, and everything still works, including web, e-mail, and tethering via Bluetooth. It's good to know that the locking of a SIM card to the iPhone doesn't effect the ability of that SIM to work well in other phones.

For the most part, I'm happy with the iPhone can do, even with its large and apparent limitations. When it comes to web browsing on the phone, it's got other phones beat by a mile. But I sometimes toy with the idea of buying a new, unlocked Windows Mobile or Linux Smartphone, and swapping the SIM card to whichever phone best suits my needs at a given time.
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Peter came out and gave us medals
Declaring us the nicest of the damned -- They Might Be Giants          See the stars at skyviewcafe.com
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We were once so close to heaven
Peter came out and gave us medals
Declaring us the nicest of the damned -- They Might Be Giants          See the stars at skyviewcafe.com
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post #5 of 36
Thread Starter 
Does the Iphone even do 100% of what one of them does?

Henry
post #6 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heny Woodward View Post

BTW I am not trolling

post #7 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heny Woodward View Post

Steve Jobs compared the Iphone to 4 smartphones in his Iphone keynote

Does the Iphone even do 100% of what one of them does?

Do any of those other phones do 100% of what any of the others do? Each one is its own mix of pros and cons.

Did Steve Jobs every say, "The iPhone does everything all of these other phones do, and MORE!"?

It's not like I have a transcript of the keynote in front of me, but I certainly don't remember any such claim being made, and I'm pretty sure I remember Jobs talking about some of the things the phone doesn't do as well.

What else could you compare an iPhone to? The iPhone is kind of its own thing, but that's the closest product category out there. It may have fewer features, and different features, than some smartphones, but it's well ahead of a generic, basic phone, and does some things that other smartphones do better than they do it.

If you think merely comparing the iPhone to other smartphones represents some kind of implied guarantee of feature parity, you're dreaming. A car company could advertise a car by comparing it to four different boats, but unless you could prove deliberate intent to deceive buyers into thinking the car was seaworthy, you wouldn't have a very strong case if you stupidly buy the car, throw it in the water, and decide to sue the manufacturer because the car didn't float.
We were once so close to heaven
Peter came out and gave us medals
Declaring us the nicest of the damned -- They Might Be Giants          See the stars at skyviewcafe.com
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We were once so close to heaven
Peter came out and gave us medals
Declaring us the nicest of the damned -- They Might Be Giants          See the stars at skyviewcafe.com
Reply
post #8 of 36
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by shetline View Post

Do any of those other phones do 100% of what any of the others do? Each one is its own mix of pros and cons.

Did Steve Jobs every say, "The iPhone does everything all of these other phones do, and MORE!"?

It's not like I have a transcript of the keynote in front of me, but I certainly don't remember any such claim being made, and I'm pretty sure I remember Jobs talking about some of the things the phone doesn't do as well.

What else could you compare an iPhone to? The iPhone is kind of its own thing, but that's the closest product category out there. It may have fewer features, and different features, than some smartphones, but it's well ahead of a generic, basic phone, and does some things that other smartphones do better than they do it.

If you think merely comparing the iPhone to other smartphones represents some kind of implied guarantee of feature parity, you're dreaming. A car company could advertise a car by comparing it to four different boats, but unless you could prove deliberate intent to deceive buyers into thinking the car was seaworthy, you wouldn't have a very strong case if you stupidly buy the car, throw it in the water, and decide to sue the manufacturer because the car didn't float.

In the Keynote Jobs says its smarter than those smartphones. It would be nice if the Iphone had every **major** feature of just **one** of those smartphones.

I think the question is the Iphone is smartphone is good one. The discussion on Wikipedia under the title smartphone is pretty torn on the subject. I think the killing of 3rd party of apps helps push the Iphone into the non-smartphone category. Perhaps Steve oversold the phone in the keynote.

Henry
post #9 of 36
Henry, being dissatisfied with a product is all you need to justify not buying it. You don't need to quote a non-authoritative Wiki article.

If your research of a product is so comprehensive that you monitored the keynote introduction, then you surely know the capabilities or lack thereof.

Apple has delivered on every promise they have made. There's no obligation on their part to meet any expectation you might have for promises you would have liked them to have made.

I can understand and even empathize with anyone who has a "wish list" for what they would like to see incorporated into the iPhone. There are wishes I have for it, too. That said, I really have little ability to tolerate some of the responses people have because Apple didn't meet their expectation with this product. Wishing for the product to fail or wishing for the company to be punished because it doesn't meet your expectation is juvenile.
post #10 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heny Woodward View Post

I think the question is the Iphone is smartphone is good one. The discussion on Wikipedia under the title smartphone is pretty torn on the subject. I think the killing of 3rd party of apps helps push the Iphone into the non-smartphone category. Perhaps Steve oversold the phone in the keynote.

None of this rises to the level of being a valid reason for a class action lawsuit, however. All this amounts to is reason for you to not buy an iPhone yourself, if you think it's so terrible at meeting your expectations for a "true" smartphone. There is in no way, shape or form anywhere near the level of deception you'd have to prove in a court of law to hold Apple liable for somehow tricking people into buying a product that you can claim doesn't live up to Apple's own representation of the capabilities of that product.

It is utterly routine advertising practice for Company A to compare its product with products from Companies B, C, and D, restricting their comparison to those features and specs which make their product shine, leaving out any potentially negative comparisons. It's totally up to the consumer, if that consumer has a desire for a specific feature or level of quality, to investigate such things for him- or herself before making a purchase.
We were once so close to heaven
Peter came out and gave us medals
Declaring us the nicest of the damned -- They Might Be Giants          See the stars at skyviewcafe.com
Reply
We were once so close to heaven
Peter came out and gave us medals
Declaring us the nicest of the damned -- They Might Be Giants          See the stars at skyviewcafe.com
Reply
post #11 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heny Woodward View Post

Please don't flame me, I am an iphone owner who has come to some conclusions regarding the expectations set by Steve Jobs and the actual product. The Iphone was compared to a smartphone in the Steve Jobs Keynote..

First off, it's iPhone, not iphone nor Iphone. While this may seem a mute point, it's does show the ability to differentiate. Second, comparing something to something else does in no way say they are the same nor does it imply they do the same things. OK?

Apple showed what the iPhone could do and what it didn't do way before it even went on sale.

Lack of research, inability to differentiate and taking no responsibility for one's own actions, I'm afraid, is not the fault of others.
post #12 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by dfiler View Post


Good argument, not. Please don't do that.
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post #13 of 36
No the iPhone is not a Smartphone IMO, but it is an extremely cool and desirable phone with lots of potential. Frankly.. phone, email and Safari are enough for me. Funny that the browser pwns ever other phone browser around, isn't it? Still, there is major room for improvement. No. 1, cut & paste. Two, native 3rd party apps (which are a dead cert.), 3, 16GB storage. and so on and so fourth. I am looking forward to see how the iPhone evolves, but Apple has made some terrible mistakes so far. Interesting times indeed.

Try call me a fanboy now
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post #14 of 36
The idea of a class action lawsuit over this is absolutely ridiculous.
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post #15 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlooker View Post

The idea of a class action lawsuit over this is absolutely ridiculous.

There is some serious crazy on the boards lately.
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post #16 of 36
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

There is some serious crazy on the boards lately.

The iphone is not a smartphone. If you can add reasons why it is then post them, if you are not capable of having a reasoned discussion, then toss your insults.

-Henry
post #17 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heny Woodward View Post

The iphone is not a smartphone. If you can add reasons why it is then post them, if you are not capable of having a reasoned discussion, then toss your insults.

-Henry

You gave the link yourself defining what a smartphone is define as:

Definition

Smartphones can be noted by several features which include, but are not limited to, touchscreen, operating system, and tethered modem capabilities on top of the default phone characteristics. Full-fledged email support seems to be a characteristic key defining feature found in all existing and announced smartphones as of 2007. Most smartphones also allow the user to install extra software, even from third party sources, but some phones vendors like to refer to their phones as "smartphones" even without this feature.

Smartphone features tend to include Internet access, e-mail access, scheduling software, built-in camera, contact management, accelerometers and some navigation software as well as occasionally the ability to read business documents in a variety of formats such as PDF and Microsoft Office. Many smartphones today also include media software for playing music, browsing photos and viewing video clips, as well as interent (web) browsers.
post #18 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heny Woodward View Post

The iphone is not a smartphone. If you can add reasons why it is then post them, if you are not capable of having a reasoned discussion, then toss your insults.

-Henry

Your thread title is "The Real Reason to Sue Apple in a Class Action Suit". If you want to have a reasoned discussion then don't start threads with patently ludicrous titles.

If you want to have a chat about what "Smart Phone" actually means, and whether or not the iPhone meets such a definition, and (most importantly), whether or not a marketing term ought to be the metric of anything at all, than by all means make that clear, minus the silly, some might say loony, intimations of litigation.

You sure are a puffed up little thing for being brand new to these boards.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #19 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heny Woodward View Post

Please don't flame me, I am an iphone owner who has come to some conclusions regarding the expectations set by Steve Jobs and the actual product. The Iphone was compared to a smartphone in the Steve Jobs Keynote. It was actually compared to 4 smartphones. There is no way this phone is a smart phone for the following reasons:

1. No file system
2. No way to add local apps.
3. No cut and paste
4. No to do list function.
5. No tethering paid for or not.
6. No adding internet plug-ins to Safari
7. No way to edit word and excel files
8. No video recording
9. No way to safely unlock the device and avoid $2 overseas roaming.
10. Feel free to add to this list.


Steve Jobs of APPLE MISLEAD BY COMPARING THE IPHONE TO SMARTPHONES. The iphone is a beautiful device that contains a video ipod with a regular phone. Even if we were to compare the phone function to a regular phone we would be missing many functions.

I think the Iphone is like a supermodel girlfriend she will let you buy her anything(ie roaming charges, itunes), but she not very open minded in bed(not a smartphone, no unlocking).

Henry.

P.S Definition of smartphone according to Wikipedia:

"A smartphone is a full-featured mobile phone with personal computer like functionality. Most smartphones are cellphones that support full featured email capabilities with the functionality of a complete personal organizer. An important feature of most smartphones is that applications for enhanced data processing and connectivity can be installed on the device,[1] in contrast to regular phones which support sandboxed applications"

**AND**
"Smartphones can be noted by several features which include, but are not limited to, touchscreen, operating system, and tethered modem capabilities on top of the default phone characteristics. Full-fledged email support seems to be a characteristic key defining feature found in all existing and announced smartphones as of 2007. Most smartphones also allow the user to install extra software, even from third party sources, but some phones vendors like to refer to their phones as "smartphones" even without this feature."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smartphone

The Iphone is 'sandboxed' like a typical non-smart cell phone, but probably worse in that it cannot even be reversed with some low risk hacking.

BTW I am not trolling, I am serious.

Thats complete rubbish, whats next: Nokia N95/N93 customers suing Nokia for not giving them "true DVD like recording". Jyst admit you fell prey to the hype like everyone else.

Sue Jobs becasuse it doesnt incorprate all the features you would expected? As I said to someone else on here not too long ago the specs of the iphone were known well before launch yet most people were happy to buy into the fantasy that Apple would solve everything via a firmware update. At the end of the day if you didnt like it then you shouldnt have bought it.

I dont think anyone on here has moaned more than me about the lack of video recording but ill still be getting one. Its just something you have to get used to.

For example itunes is still the only way to transfer music to an ipod and thats always been the same so dont expect Apple to change anything for the iphone. Its a crying shame Jobs left out those features you mention and the fact you Americans are moaning on here leaves me thinking what on earth are my fellow Europeans going to think of it as we most definatley have higher expectations of a mobile phone. I wouldnt want to see the iphone fall flat on its face in Europe but I hope at the same time Steve Jobs does acknowledge the fact that he had left out so many features that would otherwise be standard.
post #20 of 36
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bavlondon2 View Post

Its a crying shame Jobs left out those features you mention and the fact you Americans are moaning on here leaves me thinking what on earth are my fellow Europeans going to think of it as we most definatley have higher expectations of a mobile phone. .

I think the statement above about Europeans could be true (ie cell phone selection in Europe and Asia is amazing), but considering the number of innovations in mobile phones that come from USA and Canada, there is good chance it is incorrect.

Some of the contributions to mobile phones from North America: Blackberry is from Canada, Windows Mobile software is from Redmond, WA, USA, CDMA is from California, USA, iPhone is an innovative mobile device, Palm OS, etc.

The point of the thread title "The real reason to sue Apple" was to contrast the inability of the iPhone to live up to the claim of being "smarter" than a smartphone(by Jobs in the Keynote) and the other reasons Apple is being sued ie Battery and unlocking. Maybe I should have put that thought in my first post.

I am definitely a victim of the hype and innovations, without examining what was missing before I bought, however "jobs" claiming a phone missing this many features is a smartphone, is somewhat misleading.

Having to put emails with attachments into my sent box, just so I can save an attachment is really pathetic. I think a smartphone should be much less "sandboxed" and much more open to personal customization than the iPhone.

The iPhone's development seems extremely focused on being a device to be force fed Apple and ATT services.

I seldom buy a cell phone purely for the "cool" factor, the list of cool cell phones I have never purchased is extremely long. I have however purchased atleast 6 different "smartphones" XDA, XDA II, PPC-6600, PPC-6700, Nokia 9XXX, Kyocera Palm based Smartphone. Having a personal computer in the palm of hand is just amazing, but the iPhone is more of a "computerized device or appliance" than a personal computer mostly for the inability to add apps.

The Iphone is a very cool, innovative, ipod and mobile phone. But a smartphone?

Add to my list in my first post no internet messaging client and not a single game!

-Henry
post #21 of 36
Thread Starter 
duplicate
post #22 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heny Woodward View Post

I am definitely a victim of the hype and innovations, without examining what was missing before I bought, however "jobs" claiming a phone missing this many features is a smartphone, is somewhat misleading.

Perhaps if you examined your expectations, you'd find that you are a victim of whatever phenomena that is running rampant on this forum.

Jobs described the iPhone as "the best iPod we've ever made". He continued to characterize the device in exactly that manner interview after interview.

One point you've made I DO agree with - you definitely seem to be a victim.
post #23 of 36
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taskiss View Post

Perhaps if you examined your expectations, you'd find that you are a victim of whatever phenomena that is running rampant on this forum.

Jobs described the iPhone as "the best iPod we've ever made". He continued to characterize the device in exactly that manner interview after interview.

One point you've made I DO agree with - you definitely seem to be a victim.

Taskiss,
Another poster talked about the difference between European and American mobile phone expecatations. It seems another difference between America and other countries is the inability to discuss a subject without a personal attack in the USA. Taskiss it seems you own an iPhone, do some of your other consumer choices involve watching Fox News or attaching Bush Cheney 04 bumper stickers to your car?
post #24 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heny Woodward View Post

P.S Definition of smartphone according to Wikipedia:

"A smartphone is a full-featured mobile phone with personal computer like functionality...

The very concept and definition of a smartphone is recent and changing. If anything, Apple's iPhone influences the definition of smartphone more than it is influenced by it.

With such rapidly shifting sands, semantic arguments are empty.

For example, you realize that "computers" are rarely used these days to literally "compute," their original user application from which they continue to derive their antiquated namesake. Should we sue all the computer companies because what they continue to call "computers" are more generally used for word processing, internet, graphics, media, etc. ?
post #25 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heny Woodward View Post

Taskiss,
Another poster talked about the difference between European and American mobile phone expecatations. It seems another difference between America and other countries is the inability to discuss a subject without a personal attack in the USA. Taskiss it seems you own an iPhone, do some of your other consumer choices involve watching Fox News or attaching Bush Cheney 04 bumper stickers to your car?

Like you are doing now ? Don't know about you pal , but usually , if somebody wants to hold the high ground against ad hominems by other posters , they just ignore the latter and focus on the subject at hand . And oh btw , your definition of of a smart phone is a laptop with telecommunication capabilities .

And oh yeah , putting political figures on a post that has nothing to do with the debate at hand reflects on the intellectual desperation of a poster that has been throughly beaten by his intellectual superior IMO .
post #26 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heny Woodward View Post

Taskiss,
Another poster talked about the difference between European and American mobile phone expecatations. It seems another difference between America and other countries is the inability to discuss a subject without a personal attack in the USA. Taskiss it seems you own an iPhone, do some of your other consumer choices involve watching Fox News or attaching Bush Cheney 04 bumper stickers to your car?

Henry, you were the one that characterized yourself as a victim, not I. I just attempted to qualify the source of that victimization.

I cant imagine why you object to being identified as a victim when it's pretty obvious your entire position revolves around that. Poor, poor Henry. Isn't that what you want to hear? Why else seek to punish Apple, other than they caused you harm?
post #27 of 36
I agree the iPhone while a wonderful device is not a smartphone. While I have voiced plenty of disappointment over the phone, I would not take the effort to sue! I would simply vote with how my future dollars are spent and I would not recommend the phone to those needing it seriously for business as I do. I assumed (wrongly) that Apple was serious about going after the business market.

The business people who purchased the phone purchased it in many cases because we also owned a MacBookPro and wanted easiy syncing... Being a business entrepreneur, I was also wanting the underdog Apple to continue making progress against MicroSoft. While I am disappointed in Apple's approach, I travel extensively and I am a very serious music lover and movie buff so the device does a good job in that effort. I did not buy the phone because I thought this $600 dollar purchase would make me cool. (How lame is that anyway)

I wish in my dreams that the phone was a more credible competitor to the Blackberry for business functions but the Blackberry is head and shoulders above iPhone. I will hang in there until after the Leopard release but if there is not something better suited to business, I will sell the iPhone, buy a iTouch and a Blackberry. That is the best solution for how I plan to use a Smartphone.
post #28 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by tutumiles1 View Post

I agree the iPhone while a wonderful device is not a smartphone. While I have voiced plenty of disappointment over the phone, I would not take the effort to sue! I would simply vote with how my future dollars are spent and I would not recommend the phone to those needing it seriously for business as I do. I assumed (wrongly) that Apple was serious about going after the business market.

The business people who purchased the phone purchased it in many cases because we also owned a MacBookPro and wanted easiy syncing... Being a business entrepreneur, I was also wanting the underdog Apple to continue making progress against MicroSoft. While I am disappointed in Apple's approach, I travel extensively and I am a very serious music lover and movie buff so the device does a good job in that effort. I did not buy the phone because I thought this $600 dollar purchase would make me cool. (How lame is that anyway)

I wish in my dreams that the phone was a more credible competitor to the Blackberry for business functions but the Blackberry is head and shoulders above iPhone. I will hang in there until after the Leopard release but if there is not something better suited to business, I will sell the iPhone, buy a iTouch and a Blackberry. That is the best solution for how I plan to use a Smartphone.

My only question about this is why would you even assume Apple was even trying to address the business market. They specifically targeted 'consumers' and said so. They (and AT&T) specifically excluded marketing of the iPhone to AT&T business customers and did not provide for business accounts to be included in the current sales. I think it was very clear, from the get-go, that business users were NOT the current target. The business expectations of the iPhone were all hype and expectations built outside of Apple/AT&T
post #29 of 36
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by physguy View Post

My only question about this is why would you even assume Apple was even trying to address the business market. They specifically targeted 'consumers' and said so. They (and AT&T) specifically excluded marketing of the iPhone to AT&T business customers and did not provide for business accounts to be included in the current sales. I think it was very clear, from the get-go, that business users were NOT the current target. The business expectations of the iPhone were all hype and expectations built outside of Apple/AT&T

That the phone was not targeted to the business customers of ATT I would agree, however the expectation it was a smartphone was in the keynote introducing the product. Jobs said "smarter than a smartphone. He compared it to atleast 4 smartphones. The smartphone expectations were built by Steve Jobs I would say he is in Apple.

Did you watch the keynote?

-Henry
post #30 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heny Woodward View Post

That the phone was not targeted to the business customers of ATT I would agree, however the expectation it was a smartphone was in the keynote introducing the product. Jobs said "smarter than a smartphone. He compared it to atleast 4 smartphones. The smartphone expectations were built by Steve Jobs I would say he is in Apple.

Did you watch the keynote?

-Henry

So what does "smarter than a smart phone" even mean? "Has every feature of what is currently being marketed as a 'smart phone' plus some others?"

Maybe it means "smarter about how it delivers features the average person wants and would use now if most phones weren't so insanely complex."

Maybe it means "smarter by creating a new class of phone that combines the ease of use of "just a phone" with a striking implementation of mobile communications device and media player."

You can't take a highly subjective comment like "smarter than a smart phone" and make of it some kind contractual obligation, or even an implied promise.

The problem being that, insofar as "smart phone" means something as a marketing tool, "smarter" is just an english word that, in this context, means "better", or perhaps "cleverer", and better or cleverer is in the eye of the user. It's not a quantifiable metric like "faster" or "quieter" or "cheaper", it's a term of art.

You're free to find Apple's definition of "better" to be lacking, or just wrong, but that's not the same as having a case for holding Apple to some imaginary promise or being upset that they have let anyone down, in any coherent way.
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post #31 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heny Woodward View Post

That the phone was not targeted to the business customers of ATT I would agree, however the expectation it was a smartphone was in the keynote introducing the product. Jobs said "smarter than a smartphone. He compared it to atleast 4 smartphones. The smartphone expectations were built by Steve Jobs I would say he is in Apple.

Did you watch the keynote?

-Henry

Of course I watched the keynote, and nowhere did anyone say this was a phone for business users, which is all I was commenting on. addabox did a better job than I would on the rest. You're just projecting your wishes on what was actually said. As I've said in many other other threads - Apple delivered almost exactly what they specified (some bugs, not unexpected).
post #32 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heny Woodward View Post

That the phone was not targeted to the business customers of ATT I would agree...

Don't you think the line between consumer and business is getting blurrier? While the iPhone isn't optimized for business systems, in practice, I think a lot of people use them in a mixed environment.
post #33 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duddits View Post

Don't you think the line between consumer and business is getting blurrier? While the iPhone isn't optimized for business systems, in practice, I think a lot of people use them in a mixed environment.

I think this is true and one of the things Apple is trying to do is to add a branch to the development. Instead of just adding new features, making things bigger, another bell, etc., they added UI elegance and usability and integration. They chose not to bring all the features into this branch at this time. This is one of the main areas of disappointment.
post #34 of 36
Could you all please stop banging on about the defination of "smart phone" and how you were "duped".

Smart phones typically mean that they can run 3rd party applications, something which was known from day 1 the iphone couldnt do - Fact

Nokia marketed the N93 and N95 with "DVD Like video recording" yet we all know they dont really - Fact.

Just get over it.

Or maybe when Jobs said "smarter" he meant it would be smart enough to maek you buy it without reading whats on the label first. lol
post #35 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heny Woodward View Post

Please don't flame me, I am an iphone owner who has come to some conclusions regarding the expectations set by Steve Jobs and the actual product. The Iphone was compared to a smartphone in the Steve Jobs Keynote. It was actually compared to 4 smartphones. There is no way this phone is a smart phone for the following reasons:

1. No file system
2. No way to add local apps.
3. No cut and paste
4. No to do list function.
5. No tethering paid for or not.
6. No adding internet plug-ins to Safari
7. No way to edit word and excel files
8. No video recording
9. No way to safely unlock the device and avoid $2 overseas roaming.
10. No internet messaging client
11. No games(picky I know, but what phone does not have a single game?).

Maybe the phone doesn't come with games and that other crap, but you can put them on there. I have an iphone, and I have over 150 games, safari, aim and yahoo. I can't edit Microsoft stuff though - It's an APPLE phone.

- Rach
post #36 of 36
The Real Reason to Sue Chevrolet

On their website, they claim that Chevy is "An American Revolution". The Random House Unabridged Dictionary defines "revolution" as "an overthrow or repudiation and the thorough replacement of an established government or political system by the people governed." Chevy cars are definitely not a revolution for the following reasons:

- They don't threaten to overthrow or repudiate the US government

Heny, fire up your trusty Wikipedia and look up "marketing".

BTW I am not trolling, I am serious.
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