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post #81 of 151
Here we go again. I guess if you keep predicting it then it will happen.

If Apple were to replace the Mini by an AppleTV, say with an optical drive, there would be one more switcher in the world but not in the way we'd like to think of. Also, I just can't see Apple replacing it by something bigger like the Cube (Apple systems get smaller not bigger) and the Apple TV truly is a no go outside the US where a lot of its computer market is.

So, Apple TV is useless outside the US, not everyone wants/needs a portable and some of us don't want a 20" dongle with the computer. Since Apple doesn't want to go the mini-tower route that would leave an odd space in its lineup. Surely they don't expect people who are attracted to the Mini to move to a Mac Pro! A Mac Mini attached to an HDTV is about as good as it gets in the Apple world. It wouldn't surprise me if Apple were to combine the AppleTV and Mini into one product line but I guess that depends on how things progress with negociations with the video people.

philip
post #82 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmcd View Post

If Apple were to replace the Mini by an AppleTV, say with an optical drive, there would be one more switcher in the world but not in the way we'd like to think of. Also, I just can't see Apple replacing it by something bigger like the Cube (Apple systems get smaller not bigger)

Umm... while it's possible that a MacMini converted into an AppleTV form factor would result in a loss in processing power... it also could just be a different shaped MacMini with extra outputs.

I'm not sure why that would make you switch away in that situation...?
(given, of course, that we know nothing of Apples actual plans)
post #83 of 151
"Umm... while it's possible that a MacMini converted into an AppleTV form factor would result in a loss in processing power... it also could just be a different shaped MacMini with extra outputs.

I'm not sure why that would make you switch away in that situation...?"

Oh, no that would be fine. As long as I can run OSX from a wireless keyboard to whatever is hooked to a TV then I'm happy. I don't even care for an optical drive. A merging of the two (Apple TV and Mini) just seems strange to me from the point of view of Apple wanting the AppleTV to be a playback unit of iTunes stuff.

If I had my way, I'd get rid of the optical from the Mini and allow it to run on batteries. Combine it with a remote with a bit more power, such as an iPod Touch type thing, and you'd have a really neat presentation tool. It's probably just me but I can't stand laptops/iMac's with the screen hinged to the computer/keyboard (I do have an iMac and iBook which I rarely use anymore). I can see a rational for the Mac Pro and obviously people love laptops but the iMac doesn't make sense (to me) except that it's so darned beautiful (I admit it does make for a great desktop for most people).

Well I hope Apple does not give up on the small form factor. There are PC's which are similar but they are much more expensive than the Mini (I think few people realize what a bargain the Mini is).

philip
post #84 of 151
The last time AppleInsider claimed the Mac Mini was dead, it got a processor upgrade.
post #85 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmcd View Post

As long as I can run OSX from a wireless keyboard to whatever is hooked to a TV then I'm happy. I don't even care for an optical drive. A merging of the two (Apple TV and Mini) just seems strange to me from the point of view of Apple wanting the AppleTV to be a playback unit of iTunes stuff.

Yeah, Apple has clearly defined a different audience for Mac Mini & AppleTV.... so making it one line might be a bad move.

And yet... they are both computers, there could be gains from sharing manufacturing costs... who knows. Now that you've mentioned it, I'll have to think about that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pmcd View Post

If I had my way, I'd get rid of the optical from the Mini and allow it to run on batteries. Combine it with a remote with a bit more power, such as an iPod Touch type thing, and you'd have a really neat presentation tool.

I'd rather see the existing iPod's act as a presentation device
post #86 of 151
I think the MacBook UltraLight (MacBook nano) and Mac nano will be out with Leopard on the 26th.
post #87 of 151
Gawd there's just sooo much pent up demand for Macs once Leopard is out the demand will spread and floooww woooo ... I think Oct 26, Jan Macworld, Back to School middle of 2008, Apple has a very good Mac, iPod, iPhone, "4th element", in place to streamline through 2008....... OMG LEOPARD OMG
post #88 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by wessan View Post

Well I would like to see something like Mac Mini inside a keyboard. It would spare a cable and make the Mac easier to transport. That would probably lead to sacrificing optical drive. But it could be pretty cool for some people to have a notebook without screen and battery that can be attached to 24" at home, 20" in dormitories/in school etc.

Keyboards are so cheap that it makes sense to leave a keyboard everywhere one leaves a monitor and carry around a smaller package. Someday, a future iPhone will have enough power to fill that role.
Mac user since August 1983.
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post #89 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarling View Post

Keyboards are so cheap that it makes sense to leave a keyboard everywhere one leaves a monitor and carry around a smaller package. Someday, a future iPhone will have enough power to fill that role.

In many ways the computer in keyboard is such and old idea, and it was the way computers used to be sold:
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amiga
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_II
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZX_Spectrum
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bbc_micro

I am not convinced about this making a comeback, at least for a desktop. In many ways the screen is the best place, since it helps hide the cable mess, which the keyboard would fail in. Then again, a portable is very much a computer in a keyboard, with an attached screen.
post #90 of 151
Keyboards are so much a personal preference that I wouldn't like to see one attached to a desktop.
post #91 of 151
Ok so what would be the best scenario for my situation??? Over 800 DVDs I want to rip to hdd .. Audio needs to be ac3 (Dolby digital)..reciever will accept optical.. All content is 480p....xbox360 in the mix...have 1 media center 2005 server on the network as well as 1 vista ultimate box on the network...would like to rip these to external usb drives and access them from the tv with the easiest interface... What type of video rip are we talking about here? Apple tv is out because of the lack of 5.1 right? What about a mini? What are your thoughts? Btw sorry if this is a little off topic
post #92 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by daratbastid View Post

Ok so what would be the best scenario for my situation??? Over 800 DVDs I want to rip to hdd .. Audio needs to be ac3 (Dolby digital)..reciever will accept optical.. All content is 480p....xbox360 in the mix...have 1 media center 2005 server on the network as well as 1 vista ultimate box on the network...would like to rip these to external usb drives and access them from the tv with the easiest interface... What type of video rip are we talking about here? Apple tv is out because of the lack of 5.1 right? What about a mini? What are your thoughts? Btw sorry if this is a little off topic

Wow I honestly don't think AppleTV, iMac, MacPro or Mac mini would fit your bill. Not being an Apple snob, just honest...
post #93 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

Wow I honestly don't think AppleTV, iMac, MacPro or Mac mini would fit your bill. Not being an Apple snob, just honest...



really?? thats discouraging What exactly is it that i need here that a mini couldn't do? Keep in mind that I mentioned the windows PC's and xbox only has an option here. I have tried the "media extention" options from the xbox to the pc's and well, it sucks.
post #94 of 151


This is an interesting mini mockup.
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post #95 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by sequitur View Post



This is an interesting mini mockup.

I might buy one, depending on the specs, and if apple had a cheaper screen
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post #96 of 151
More mini mockups:




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post #97 of 151
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Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Most people that use a Windows system don't even know what Leopard is, nor do they care. The two do not compete against each other, Windows can be installed on either, Lepoard can only be installed on Apple hardware, hense it will not go about 5-6% market share and thats if every Mac owner upgrades, which they won't.

Except that apple is already selling at more than 5-6% market share. And it's reported to be much higher in consumer and especially educational markets. While apple is in the minority, it's still going up and taking market share from Windows a little at a time.

Killing the mini could be a great thing or a terrible thing depending on whether they replace it, and what it is replaced with.

Killing it with no replacement would be stupid, leaving them with no headless model in a consumer price range and shutting out all potential switchers who already have monitors.

Killing it and replacing it with a more cost-effective mid-tower model would be a great idea. Most people don't want a tiny mac, they just want a headless one that isn't huge. A model that had modest expandability (replaceable video card and one or two open slots, plus one open HD bay) would be a huge improvement over the mini, especially since it would have vastly improved bang for the buck since it could use more stock components and not have to use mobile parts like hard drive and optical drive. They could jump the size of the hard drive by a factor of 5-10 and still save money on it. This would be the smartest option, I hope this is the plan.

Killing it and replacing it with a redesigned mini that still used mostly laptop parts would be better than not replacing it, but would be pretty dumb and a wasted opportunity.

Really, the mini was an idea that was more "cool" than sensible and was intended to fill a need that didn't really exist - it should have just been a simple budget midtower from day one. Hopefully they'll rectify that.

They also need to give the appleTV a major update assuming they don't just kill it. It has great potential but the current version just has a couple major limitations that are dealbreakers for many people.
post #98 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by minderbinder View Post

Killing it and replacing it with a more cost-effective mid-tower model would be a great idea. Most people don't want a tiny mac, they just want a headless one that isn't huge. A model that had modest expandability (replaceable video card and one or two open slots, plus one open HD bay) would be a huge improvement over the mini, especially since it would have vastly improved bang for the buck since it could use more stock components and not have to use mobile parts like hard drive and optical drive. They could jump the size of the hard drive by a factor of 5-10 and still save money on it. This would be the smartest option, I hope this is the plan.

Killing it and replacing it with a redesigned mini that still used mostly laptop parts would be better than not replacing it, but would be pretty dumb and a wasted opportunity.

A mini-tower-MAC (more along the form factor of Shuttle PCs) would definitely be a plus. There is already AppleTV for those who want something really small to use as a media center. The current mini form factor constrains storage and graphics options to great extent. It should also be possible to provide better cooling with almost no noise in a larger form factor.

Another option would be a "Mac media" in a stereo component like form factor with a built in TV tuner & cable card slot. Intel has spent a lot of time and effort developing such form factors and no PC vendor has been able to push these to market successfully. Apple is certainly capable of pulling this off.
post #99 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

Wow I honestly don't think AppleTV, iMac, MacPro or Mac mini would fit your bill. Not being an Apple snob, just honest...

I can't go with that. I've got over 1,000 LP's to digitize, and I'm doing it with a Mini. I see that as a great machine for the job. not too expensive, small, so that it cam be moved anywhere. I connect it to the (hi def) Tv when it's being used. A keyboard is pretty cheap these days so I can have one just for this putpose, and I don't need the numeric pad, so it can be a small one. It's more than fast enough for Pro Tools, though one doesn't need that for this purpose.
post #100 of 151
The Mini definitely has a place in the market... it's just a matter of how it fits in the market compared to other form factors. I'd like some real numbers, but I've been "hearing" the mini hasn't been selling that well.

 

 

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post #101 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by sequitur View Post



This is an interesting mini mockup.

That's pretty, but it would never work.

there is simply no room for a computer inside.

Even allowing for the lack of DVD , the case, even if we pretend that the keyboard doesn't extend into it, has much less room than the current Mini, which as we all know, is too small for a GPU already. Remembering that the Mini uses a 2.5" drive, even using the far more expensive, and much smaller capacity SSD's, there would no way to cool the thing.

Nice fantasy.
post #102 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by dancingsolo View Post

The last time AppleInsider claimed the Mac Mini was dead, it got a processor upgrade.

...but no GMA3K, no FW800, no 802.11n or anything else that required any thought or effort.

The Mac Mini 'upgrade' could have been engineered by an Intern. If Apple aren't giving it any effort then it sends a message.
post #103 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

That's pretty, but it would never work.

there is simply no room for a computer inside.

Even allowing for the lack of DVD , the case, even if we pretend that the keyboard doesn't extend into it, has much less room than the current Mini, which as we all know, is too small for a GPU already. Remembering that the Mini uses a 2.5" drive, even using the far more expensive, and much smaller capacity SSD's, there would no way to cool the thing.

Nice fantasy.

And I don't see why the average person would really want it.

What is so appealing about a tiny computer that is never going to be that portable since it requires a monitor and plugging into a wall? People who want portability already have laptops (which are pretty much all better equipped than a mini anyway).

I just don't see the need for a desktop to be super small. Make a slightly bigger unit and give it better specs. Either go midtower or stereo component form factor (pizza box).
post #104 of 151
I couldn't agree more in terms of a computer being small enough. Yes, the mini is already small enough. Making it smaller serves no purpose to me. I can see reason for changing the mini's shape into something sexier... something to show off on a desk or in an entertainment center. Something that looks as much art as computer, yet still priced low enough to be a starter/switcher Mac. But aside from that, there's no need to make it smaller at all, until we're talking about making it so small that it serves as both a portable and a desktop. I'm talking about something the size of an iPod, but with the performance of the current mini if not better. We're still years away from that, however. And, really, that's not the purpose of the mini anyway.
post #105 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by sequitur View Post

More mini mockups:





Nice. I can see it now: "The new Mac Mini: Fits an entie computer into the space of a sentence.
17" i7 Macbook Pro (Mid 2010), Mac Mini (early 2006), G3 B&W, G3 Beige Tower, 3 G3 iMacs (original, bondi, snow), Power Mac 7600/132, Power Mac 7100/100, Power Mac 6100/60, Performa 5280, Performa...
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17" i7 Macbook Pro (Mid 2010), Mac Mini (early 2006), G3 B&W, G3 Beige Tower, 3 G3 iMacs (original, bondi, snow), Power Mac 7600/132, Power Mac 7100/100, Power Mac 6100/60, Performa 5280, Performa...
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post #106 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by sequitur View Post



This is an interesting mini mockup.

Just what I wanted... all of my cables dangling across my desk. 4 USBs, 2 firewires, a monitor, a power cord. Cables are pretty.

You owe us all a cartridge slot though. Seriously, I used to own a computer just like the one in your mockup. The year was 1982, and it was a TI99 4A. OK, in fairness, it was my father's. Not many elementary schoolers had the kind of cash required to buy a beast like the TI99 4A.



25 years later, I'll pass.
post #107 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by macshark View Post

A mini-tower-MAC (more along the form factor of Shuttle PCs) would definitely be a plus. ... The current mini form factor constrains storage and graphics options to great extent. It should also be possible to provide better cooling with almost no noise in a larger form factor.

Couldn't. Agree. More.
100% dead on.
Yes, yes, and more yes.

Quote:
Another option would be a "Mac media" in a stereo component like form factor with a built in TV tuner & cable card slot. Intel has spent a lot of time and effort developing such form factors and no PC vendor has been able to push these to market successfully. Apple is certainly capable of pulling this off.

Again, I agree completely. I think the media center - a real media center - is the next big thing, and nobody has done it very well yet.
post #108 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by minderbinder View Post

And I don't see why the average person would really want it.

What is so appealing about a tiny computer that is never going to be that portable since it requires a monitor and plugging into a wall? People who want portability already have laptops (which are pretty much all better equipped than a mini anyway).

I just don't see the need for a desktop to be super small. Make a slightly bigger unit and give it better specs. Either go midtower or stereo component form factor (pizza box).

If it could be made to work, though a bit larger, and thicker, there could be some uses. My use for my Mini in digitizing my LP collection would be one use, the computer for control of the audio/video system.

you could also take it with you, rather than that hypothetical iPod, and plug it into a monitor somewhere else. I've had plenty of monitors with two inputs. My current one has two.

I wouldnt consider this to be a desktop machine therefore.

I'm not sure how much of a market it would have though.
post #109 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by idoaudio View Post

Couldn't. Agree. More.
100% dead on.
Yes, yes, and more yes.

You're sure now?
post #110 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gon View Post

Keyboards are so much a personal preference that I wouldn't like to see one attached to a desktop.

Monitors are pretty personal as well, yet ... I really liked my A1200. The Amiga was ahead of its time but hampered by PAL and NTSC restrictions. I guess one problem with having the keyboard include the computer is that getting the video to the HDTV would be a pain. You don't want wires all over the place, and unplugging, etc... It's the same problem laptops have, as well as iMac's. In fact the more I think about it the iPhone/iPod touch and Mac Mini are the only computer products which make sense for a consumer not interested in 3-D gaming. It won't be long before laptops are replaced by things like them.

philip
post #111 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by daratbastid View Post

Ok so what would be the best scenario for my situation??? Over 800 DVDs I want to rip to hdd .. Audio needs to be ac3 (Dolby digital)..reciever will accept optical.. All content is 480p....xbox360 in the mix...have 1 media center 2005 server on the network as well as 1 vista ultimate box on the network...would like to rip these to external usb drives and access them from the tv with the easiest interface... What type of video rip are we talking about here? Apple tv is out because of the lack of 5.1 right? What about a mini? What are your thoughts? Btw sorry if this is a little off topic


A Mac Mini is definitely the way to go for what you want to do. There is an inexpensive multiple HDMI box available at the Apple store if you need more HDMI ports. I have the Mini going to the TV and on a gigabit network with a Vista box and several Mac's. I use a wireless keyboard made by nmediapc which costs $45 and includes a neat trackball (small). Great range, works with osx, don't need to deal with a remote mouse and keyboard, etc.... I have a 500gig La Cie USB drive attached to the Mini and lot's of stuff in the PC...

As for the rip part, I am not an expert but what's wrong with divx/xvid or .mp4 ?

philip
post #112 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by macshark View Post

A mini-tower-MAC (more along the form factor of Shuttle PCs) would definitely be a plus. There is already AppleTV for those who want something really small to use as a media center. The current mini form factor constrains storage and graphics options to great extent. It should also be possible to provide better cooling with almost no noise in a larger form factor.

Another option would be a "Mac media" in a stereo component like form factor with a built in TV tuner & cable card slot. Intel has spent a lot of time and effort developing such form factors and no PC vendor has been able to push these to market successfully. Apple is certainly capable of pulling this off.

I had a Soltek Qbic which is similar to the Shuttles. The Shuttles are not cheap and, like the Qbic, have no class. There are small PC's which are classy but they are very expensive. Why on earth would Apple want to go back in time to a mid/tower or microATX form? It's never been them. They don't want people fiddling around with the hardware. It increases support costs which are higher than the hardware costs.

philip
post #113 of 151
"Again, I agree completely. I think the media center - a real media center - is the next big thing, and nobody has done it very well yet."

Many people think recording when they think media centre. HDTV and the cable companies are making recording difficult. You basically can't record cable broadcast HDTV as they are copy protecting the streams. That gets rid of recording so what is the media centre supposed to do?

philip
post #114 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmcd View Post

"Again, I agree completely. I think the media center - a real media center - is the next big thing, and nobody has done it very well yet."

Many people think recording when they think media centre. HDTV and the cable companies are making recording difficult. You basically can't record cable broadcast HDTV as they are copy protecting the streams. That gets rid of recording so what is the media centre supposed to do?

philip

Indeed, with the number of deals Apple has with content providers I can't see them including tuners ever again with a view to recording content. Much more likely we'll see more deals to provide TV and film content to Macs, iTunes and AppleTV.
post #115 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by emig647 View Post

The Mini definitely has a place in the market... it's just a matter of how it fits in the market compared to other form factors. I'd like some real numbers, but I've been "hearing" the mini hasn't been selling that well.

That says nothing of it's profitability.

Not everything has to sell by the millions. I'm sure it sells more units than the XServe. By your reasoning that should be EOLd too.

Personally, I love the Mac Mini. It makes a fantastic little office/workgroup server.
post #116 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

You're right, it seems like for switchers price keeps coming up as the main issue for not switching even if it is a myth that Mac's are more expensive.

I don't feel that Apple puts enough effort into this part of the market. The starting 20" iMac is a pretty good deal for what you get at 1199.00 seeing it includes a 20" display.

The issue is in most cases if the cost is about the same fear will keep switchers from making the jump because they often feel like they have to buy new software which adds to the cost.

Also ive seen many times sales people talk customers out of a Apple product if someone is on the fence. Best Buy that sells both is a perfect example.

I believe still if Apple made a Macbook line with a 15" and 17" option with a decent graphics solution they could grab a nice share of that market they now lose. People see they can get a fully loaded Toshiba or HP 17" laptop for 1800.00, Apple has nothing to combat that. Best they can offer is a Macbook Pro at 1000.00 higher most aren't going to buy into that cost difference.

Just my opinion.

I don't really think it's a myth that Mac's are more expensive. Just playing around building systems at dell.com and comparing them with the iMacs, I was averaging about $2-300 savings on any system I built. And of course the obvious thing is that I could remove things I might consider unnecessary from the Dell to save even more money (bluetooth, firewire, etc.). You can easily widen the margins well beyond the $2-300 margin (especially if you already own a monitor you are happy with). If you absolutely want everything that is in the iMac the difference isn't that great, but remove the extraneous bits and the Dell is much cheaper (and if you happen to be stuck on dial-up, Dell tosses in a modem for free instead of $49 like Apple).
post #117 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by aegisdesign View Post

That says nothing of it's profitability.

Not everything has to sell by the millions. I'm sure it sells more units than the XServe. By your reasoning that should be EOLd too.

Personally, I love the Mac Mini. It makes a fantastic little office/workgroup server.

The XServe has a much higher profit margin than a mini. There isn't a whole lot to work with on a mini for pricing.

 

 

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post #118 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by emig647 View Post

The XServe has a much higher profit margin than a mini. There isn't a whole lot to work with on a mini for pricing.

Absolutely. And the mini wastes money that could go toward higher profits or lower price on pricier laptop components. Apple could have been making more money at these price points, or dropped prices, or improved specs at the same price (or a combination of all three), if they'd just use things like 3.5 inch hard drives and desktop CPU's.
post #119 of 151
Ignoring the issue of market differentiation (which I opopse), you have two simple options here:

1) Mini form-factor with laptop components.
2) Bigger form-factor with desktop components and fan.

Perhaps Apple should have made both products. But personally I like the Mini form factor, which was one of its main selling points.
post #120 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Ignoring the issue of market differentiation (which I opopse), you have two simple options here:

1) Mini form-factor with laptop components.
2) Bigger form-factor with desktop components and fan.

Perhaps Apple should have made both products. But personally I like the Mini form factor, which was one of its main selling points.

The mini uses a fan too.

The mini is nice, but I think it's pushing a form factor and size that doesn't seem to be in much demand for a device that's not a portable.
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