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Review: Apple Wireless Keyboard (aluminum) - Page 2

post #41 of 67
Why Apple didn't come out with a keyboard (with numeric keypad) using the scalloped keys of the MacBook PRO, is beyond me.
Practically everyone raves about the comfortable feel, plus the aluminum coloured keys would eliminate any white on silver. But I suppose there's a design language or cost reasons that won over comfort or useability.
post #42 of 67
People! The Bluetooth Wireless keyboard was developed for home use. It is a keyboard designed for casual computer users, that would be more likely to set the keyboard on their lap. Kitchen nook, cubbie hole desk, fold out desk.

The wired keyboard (yea, the one with the number pad) is for the number crunchers, and of course those who fear change.

If you want the keypad then get the wired one! This is totally not rocket science. Stop your unfounded whining. You don't hear video editors whining about how they cannot fit 16GB of ram into the iMac do you? "Gosh, I really want the iMac because it is so slim and it would work well in my studio, but I can't get the super fast processor and the 2 tera, and the 16GB of ram. Such a downer"

Come on now, use common sense.
post #43 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Contonio View Post

For all of you complaining about no keypad, this is for mobile computing. While a full bluetooth keyboard is a big want for me (and I hope Apple is hearing that), this keyboard is obviously created for the mobile crowd who need to throw a keyboard in their backpack.

Mobile computing? Huh? For what? A laptop with a keyboard of the same size?

You don't need to throw a keyboard in your backpack if you have a MacBook or PowerBook. They already have one.
post #44 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustBrady View Post

People! The Bluetooth Wireless keyboard was developed for home use. It is a keyboard designed for casual computer users, that would be more likely to set the keyboard on their lap. Kitchen nook, cubbie hole desk, fold out desk.

The wired keyboard (yea, the one with the number pad) is for the number crunchers, and of course those who fear change.

If you want the keypad then get the wired one! This is totally not rocket science. Stop your unfounded whining. You don't hear video editors whining about how they cannot fit 16GB of ram into the iMac do you? "Gosh, I really want the iMac because it is so slim and it would work well in my studio, but I can't get the super fast processor and the 2 tera, and the 16GB of ram. Such a downer"

Come on now, use common sense.

Um, what on Earth are you on about? People like wireless keyboards because they reduce clutter and entanglement on their desktops. Providing something without a keypad and futzing up the F keys is more than an issue of trade-offs. It's amputating previous choices at the expense of 'cool' or economy.

This is about choice, and the lack of choice that Apple is providing in ths case. The loss of the keypad is a con, not to you, but to many many folks. If you count the folks posting here, it's more than 50% pro keypad.

The article we are commenting on is a review of the new wireless Apple keyboard. It may be a step up in style from the past keyboard, but it is a step down in functionality. There are no wireless keyboard options from Apple. So, this product doesn't deserve a perfect rating.

End of story.
post #45 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

There are two enter keys on many keyboards, one is sometimes called a return key. They do have different meanings in some programs. I think Fn+Enter might get you the other enter, but I have no way to test that that I can think of at the moment. I should check to see if Fn+Backspace functions as a delete key or not. If need be, it is also possible to differentiate between the two shift bars, two control buttons (though this keyboard only has one) and so on.

Replying to my post, but I can better clarify this. Delete deletes before the cursor, fn+delete deletes after cursor, just like I want to do many times.

In EyeTV, when editing the description in the recording info, return adds a new line in the description, fn+return saves and closes the description edit window.
post #46 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by nagromme View Post

Interesting--and you seem to know what you're talking about, but I still wonder if you're measuring the right thing: my PowerBook has the same (or VERY close) throw as both generations of white keyboard I own, and I've used my friends' newer MacBook Pros without noticing any difference vs. my AlBook. (I know the new desktop keyboards are more like MacBook non-Pros.)

Just to be sure, here's how to measure the throw (it's nothing to do with the height of the key "side walls", it's how far the motion is):

I do know how to measure this sort of thing. I wouldn't have been allowed to pass any engineering or physics labs without that. The key throw I measured is reasonably accurate, and reflects realistic pressures, not trying to throw the key more than is smart. All I have to measure at the moment is the new and the old desktop keyboards.

It is possible that my memory is wrong on the notebooks I've used.
post #47 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by umijin View Post

Um, what on Earth are you on about? People like wireless keyboards because they reduce clutter and entanglement on their desktops. Providing something without a keypad and futzing up the F keys is more than an issue of trade-offs. It's amputating previous choices at the expense of 'cool' or economy.

This is about choice, and the lack of choice that Apple is providing in ths case. The loss of the keypad is a con, not to you, but to many many folks. If you count the folks posting here, it's more than 50% pro keypad.

The article we are commenting on is a review of the new wireless Apple keyboard. It may be a step up in style from the past keyboard, but it is a step down in functionality. There are no wireless keyboard options from Apple. So, this product doesn't deserve a perfect rating.

End of story.

I agree that it doesn't deserve a perfect rating, for me, four out of five is about right. It isn't necessary to have to stick with Apple's peripherals, thankfully Apple does use some open standards here. You can chose to use a competitor's device or stick with whatever you already have. Someone has already mentioned it before, most competing keyboards have num keys, if num keys are what you want, then there's hardly a shortage of them out there, some of them are very nice. The problem only arises if you insist on having a certain brand, then you've already made your constraints. I use num keys a lot, but I expect that most don't and those people would be better served by having a mouse that's closer to the main key set.

If it's any consolation, I've almost never used the keyboard that was included with any given computer. I never felt that being included with the computer was a sufficient excuse to use it if I didn't like it, particularly when they are relatively inexpensive to swap out.
post #48 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by umijin View Post

Um, what on Earth are you on about? People like wireless keyboards because they reduce clutter and entanglement on their desktops. Providing something without a keypad and futzing up the F keys is more than an issue of trade-offs. It's amputating previous choices at the expense of 'cool' or economy.
...
The article we are commenting on is a review of the new wireless Apple keyboard. It may be a step up in style from the past keyboard, but it is a step down in functionality. There are no wireless keyboard options from Apple. So, this product doesn't deserve a perfect rating.

It appears that you missed or didn't understand the fact that the lack of fixed keypad is a big step up in ergonomics. So if that was the only thing you have against it, then it deserves a perfect (or very good or whatever) rating. You can't have both the same functionality and the same ergonomics. This is the "tradeoff". Actually, not much of a tradeoff, since you can regain the functionality via a separate keypad. With this generation of keyboards you get better usability and choices for higher cost, the exact opposite of what you say.

I actually have a wired keyboard with very similar layout I paid about $150 for. It's been with me for four years now as my only standalone keyboard at home, I have brought it along for coding in military software labs, and has been worth every penny for the improved ergonomics.

Regarding the function keys, you get to choose in software whether regular function keys or the special keys are primary, so how exactly are they "futzed up"? I'm still not 100% clear on if the F5 and F6 keys fall through in special key mode, and if the special keys including these two can be reassigned (which would be awesome) but the setup isn't any worse than the old keyboard's either way.
post #49 of 67
by the way kasper, my keyboard updated automatically today; just to let you know so there can be one less con
MacBook Pro
2.2GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
2GB 667 DDR2 SDRAM - 2x1GB
120GB Serial ATA Drive@5400rpm
SuperDrive 8x
15" Glossy Widescreen Display

with a wireless Apple keyboard

and

iPod Touch
8GB
Reply
MacBook Pro
2.2GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
2GB 667 DDR2 SDRAM - 2x1GB
120GB Serial ATA Drive@5400rpm
SuperDrive 8x
15" Glossy Widescreen Display

with a wireless Apple keyboard

and

iPod Touch
8GB
Reply
post #50 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by umijin View Post

Mobile computing? Huh? For what? A laptop with a keyboard of the same size?

You don't need to throw a keyboard in your backpack if you have a MacBook or PowerBook. They already have one.

Hey, don't you know that "dual keyboards" is the latest rage?
post #51 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by umijin View Post

AppleInsider reviews have now gotten worse than MacWorld reviews.

This product certainly has some benefits and looks slick, but the lack if a numeric keypad is glaring enough for a large number of us to find this product next to useless.

It's stunning you would give a perfect rating to a product that isn't perfect. Absolutely ridiculous. I suppose we should be surprised at AI's slide to mediocracy. The number of posts per day have increased, while the amount of useful, unbiased information in news posts has plummeted.

Please stick with Apple product release prognosticating, and dump the fanboy, MacSheep approach of MacNN and MacWorld.

My my, we're pissy aren't we?
Sounds like you found out everything you needed to know about the keyboard, just didn't agree with the rating.
I personally would grab this if I had a new matching Mac... don't think it looks too with a white 'un.

I never use a keypad, but it helps that I can type top row numbers at around 60/min. Can see why it doesn't work for some, but the bet is probably that people who need a keypad to enter into spreadsheets aren't particularly worried about de-tethering.

Nice looking keyboard. Happy with my currently wireless tho'.
post #52 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonro View Post

The "Mighty Mouse" is even less functional, with its lack of buttons.

???
Last time I counted, I had 5 buttons my Mighty Mouse, 4 of them programmable.
post #53 of 67
Rating should rate the product itself. Seems like this is not full keyboard, why should it lose points for not having the keys of a full keyboard? Would you rate down a BMW sedan because it is not a station wagon?

That issue aside, seems to me like there is demand for a full wireless keyboard - I hope we get that again for these people.

Personally I don't mind the wires, and I hate to deal with batteries. I'd rather just use USB and for any novice never recommend wireless input devices, they are just another thing to maintain. Also, unless you are using rechargeable, those batteries are a huge waste. Seems like an exercise in pure vanity.

One thing I would add, when this product was announced the lack of numeric was explained that people like to have the keyboard on their lap and that is more comfortable. I think the notion was a person sitting back in a chair at their desk but my first thought was the place you have a keyboard on your lap is in the living room for the TV. My guess, this keyboard may make a lot more sense when we see what is up with the next Mini and the AppleTV. I can see these as a great companion to those devices - and yes the iPhone, why not. In all those cases, the numeric keypad is definitely out of place. This one is perfect in that scenario.
post #54 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by junkie View Post

Rating should rate the product itself. Seems like this is not full keyboard, why should it lose points for not having the keys of a full keyboard? Would you rate down a BMW sedan because it is not a station wagon?

Hear, hear!!!

A fair number of people seem to think that since a product doesn't fit their particular needs, it can't possibly be good. They can't seem to imagine that there are products out there not aimed at them, specifically.

Also, that last picture of the iPhone w/ the keyboard was hot.
post #55 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by billin View Post

A fair number of people seem to think that since a product doesn't fit their particular needs, it can't possibly be good. They can't seem to imagine that there are products out there not aimed at them, specifically.

I think that's the best point that can be made on these forums and should be repeated every time people complain about any product offering not meeting their needs. I think a lot of people on this board or any board confuse this issue to the point of even arrogantly suggesting that nobody wants it because they don't want it, as if their sample of one or five is representative of everyone.

No product can be all things for everyone.
post #56 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by junkie View Post

Personally I don't mind the wires, and I hate to deal with batteries. I'd rather just use USB and for any novice never recommend wireless input devices, they are just another thing to maintain. Also, unless you are using rechargeable, those batteries are a huge waste.

It's probably not that bad. I have no long-term experience with Apple's keyboards, but the Logitech I had lasted a lot more than a year with light use on AA batteries. Maybe it would be nice if there was a recharging cradle though, drop it into the cradle once a month and it gets charged over night.
post #57 of 67
I have always considered that the full keyboard, with number pad, was lopsided. If the keyboard is placed even with the monitor, the typist has to move slightly to the left instead of directly in front of the monitor.

If the letter keys are centered, making typing easier, the number pad and arrow keys are shifted far to the right interfering with the mouse (for a right handed user).

Without the number pad, the keyboard is now centered with respect to the monitor. I would go for the number-pad-less keyboard even if it was wired. It makes more sense.

For those whom the numeric pad is an absolutely necessity, a stand alone numeric pad makes more sense, as it can be placed anywhere the user would like. This would be a plus for anyone using it for extended periods. AND, It can be moved aside when not in use.

I mentioned, in an earlier post, that Targus has a wireless numeric pad for $19.00 at (I think) Circuit City. PERFECT.
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post #58 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by sequitur View Post

For those whom the numeric pad is an absolutely necessity, a stand alone numeric pad makes more sense, as it can be placed anywhere the user would like. This would be a plus for anyone using it for extended periods. AND, It can be moved aside when not in use.

I mentioned, in an earlier post, that Targus has a wireless numeric pad for $19.00 at (I think) Circuit City. PERFECT.

I asked this before, but I think there is a potentially significant problem with that suggestion. Have you tried a separate number pad? The only time I've heard of anyone using a number pad with OS X ended in failure because the OS X keyboard detection program insisted on the user pressing the keys next to the shift bars, which don't exist on a number pad.
post #59 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

I asked this before, but I think there is a potentially significant problem with that suggestion. Have you tried a separate number pad? The only time I've heard of anyone using a number pad with OS X ended in failure because the OS X keyboard detection program insisted on the user pressing the keys next to the shift bars, which don't exist on a number pad.

You're right. We went through this once before, and I neglected to find out if there WAS a wireless keypad for OS X. Thank for pointing that out. Mea culpa.
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post #60 of 67
I found this on CompUSA's site; However, I wouldn't bet on it being true.

Search Results for 'numeric keypad for Mac' (X)
Targus Wireless Stow-N-Go Keypad
Brand: Targus
Mfg Part #: AKP01US
SKU: 319736

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Customer Rating: 4.5 out of 5

Was: $29.99
$19.99
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Ready for Pick-Up In:
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post #61 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Goes without saying; "For people who really want that number pad, it's not there." should have been added as a con. It is a con whatever way you look at it, still it wouldn't put me off getting the keyboard. It would put some people off though.

I thought I would dislike the absence of the numpad. As it turns out, I love the little wireless keyboard. I keep it in my backpack constantly. What I do find is that I need an additional keyboard with a number pad at each of my work locations (home & office). I'm glad, though, to have a little keyboard that is truly portable - as portable as the power adapter to my MBP, even!
post #62 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

I am curious now. Why would you throw a keyboard in your backpack? Doesn't your notebook have a keyboard?

I'm only one person, but I often work with a partner on projects, and by having the wireless keyboard and my wired trackball (still no bluetooth trackballs ) I can use my MBP as a portable screen. The laptop sits equidistant between the two of us but I'm the one who does the typing.

Plus, the integrated keyboard gets pretty warm. Plus, my posture is better with an external keyboard and the screen is comfortably far away.

But again, I'm only one person.
post #63 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by sequitur View Post

I found this on CompUSA's site; However, I wouldn't bet on it being true.

Search Results for 'numeric keypad for Mac' (X)
Targus Wireless Stow-N-Go Keypad
Brand: Targus
Mfg Part #: AKP01US
SKU: 319736

Unfortunately, the Targus site and their manual for that kit makes no mention of OS X.
post #64 of 67
I don't know about the wireless thing, but I've used a USB numpad on a Mac before.
post #65 of 67
The detractors have been missing the point all along.

This keyboard was not designed for accountants, nor anybody who needs or prefers to use a 10-key. This keyboard was designed for those who want to sit on the couch or in a chair across the room from the computer and display, watching instead perhaps AppleTV. It was designed for casual use.

Jobs made specific mention of this in the keynote when he introduced the BT keyboard, saying how the smaller size fit more comfortably. The 10-key was omitted by design, not mistake, for a target market. The review was conducted on that premise, as it should have been. If somebody finds this keyboard suitable for other applications, so much the better.

Apple made it clear that this has no 10-key-- http://www.apple.com/keyboard/

If you need one, this keyboard was not meant for you. This is not the keyboard you're looking for. Tell 'em, Obi Wan.

Calling it flawed and the review mediocre because somebody can't use their Segway to bring 8x10 beams home from the lumber yard is stupid. So the keyboard doesn't suit your purpose. Irrelevant. How does it do the job it was intended to do? That's what a review should address and what a reader should consider. This review did just that. Most of these posters need to do their part.

That people want a 10-key version is obvious. But crying that Apple screwed up this version is ridiculous. This is typical of people who whine because Apple didn't bring out the product they wanted.

If only critics understood the concept of context, most of these posts wouldn't have been made.

My only fault with the review is that this keyboard does have inverted-T cursor keys. But then that too is obvious just by looking at the keyboard. Otherwise, I'd say it and the rating were spot-on.

Maybe Apple will bring out an extended version. Maybe then those people will consider context, when it's all about them.
post #66 of 67
Any news on the extended version of this keyboard?

any recommendations for a wireless numeric pad that will work with OSX?


I do use the numeric pad a lot for Pro Tools
it makes my work so much easier....but that just me.

I don't mind having a separate numeric pad
anyone care to help finding one that will work with OSX?

thanks for your help,
Charles
post #67 of 67
It's a great keyboard--and much better for the absence of a numeric keypad, at least for my purposes.
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