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Steve Jobs confirms native iPhone SDK by February - Page 2

post #41 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by desarc View Post

WAHH WAHH WAHHHHH

zomfg! february! why make us wait so long!?!? early adopters should get a certificate to allow us to pick up an SDK two months earlier since we paid so much more. WAHHH and

That's possibly the quintessential strawman fallacy combined with an ad hominem attack, because you are making people out to be who they aren't and attacking them and mocking them for the fictional position that you invented but say they have. Bravo on exposing yourself.
post #42 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taskiss View Post

I don't know.. is there microphone input circuitry on an iPod touch?

Isn't necessary.
Like the idea of a camera plug-on, a voice plug-on would just need a DSP chip. After that, its just data.

I'd love either/both of them. Probably within a year.
post #43 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by roehlstation View Post

Apple could not announce anything earlier because the reason they didn't was due to the Leopard Delay, and they just didn't want to make that look bad.

I think you have that backwards. Apple delayed Leopard to put developers onto the iPhone, or so the official line goes. I don't think they were telling lies.

iPhone OSX 1.0 wasn't Leopard though. IIRC the kernel was Tiger based.

1.1 added many of the security features that are in Leopard including the signed apps and sandbox. The iPhone hackers found it easy to break into 1.0 phones because most of the apps ran unsigned as the root user. Is iPhone OSX 1.1 Leopard? Probably close enough.

What's interesting is that Apple are adding features from iPhone OSX into Mac OSX. I don't remember them announcing signed apps before.
post #44 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar View Post

Your last statement shows your hypocrisy. First you blast those "whiners" for demanding more than just web apps, and now you go "YEA! Apps for my Touch".

Well, hypocrisy is a bit strong...
I've just had too much experience with trojan malware, and want apps to be certified.

(Nice Ned Flanders quote, btw.)
post #45 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

That's possibly the quintessential strawman fallacy combined with an ad hominem attack, because you are making people out to be who they aren't and attacking them and mocking them for the fictional position that you invented but say they have. Bravo on exposing yourself.

I say we call a truce and party.
post #46 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar View Post

Your last statement shows your hypocrisy. First you blast those "whiners" for demanding more than just web apps, and now you go "YEA! Apps for my Touch". At least those "whiners" stayed true with their demands, so they have every right to celebrate Steve's announcement. They certainly did more to get a response from Apple than blind defenders who change their story whenever Apple changes its story.

I don't think that word means what you think it does. Were he to have blasted them for whining then whined himself, then you'd have been correct...however...

That said, celebrate whiners whining all you want. I'm sure they'll continue giving you reason for celebration.
post #47 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amorya View Post

Yes, definitely. If he'd only have said this at the beginning there would have been very little bitching.

It was the "write a web app if you want to develop" line that everyone was up in arms about. I could easily have handled "We'll have an SDK next year; they're hard to write and will take time".

Amorya

Didn't Steve say something all along, to the effect, that they are not against an SDK for iPhone and 3rd Party Apps but would only release an SDK until Apple's concerns were quelled. I'd have to review the public announcements Steve made prior to the June 29th iPhone launch but I thought he did. In the meantime he suggested, developer's use web apps?

The only real problem Steve and Apple had was their inherent corporate "Silent Treatment" as to future plans and because of that, the iPhone's introduction was marred by developed hacks, jailbreaks, unapproved 3rd party apps, firmware that bricked 3rd party apps, and not to mention about a dozen lawsuits, that was just getting all out of hand!

See Steve, a little communication can go a long way!

Ten years ago, we had Steve Jobs, Bob Hope and Johnny Cash.  Today we have no Jobs, no Hope and no Cash.

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Ten years ago, we had Steve Jobs, Bob Hope and Johnny Cash.  Today we have no Jobs, no Hope and no Cash.

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post #48 of 144
This should be one of those "Red" topics on the front page.

This is great.
post #49 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

If this turns out, then my last objection to the platform may well be moot, but we'll have to see how it's set up. I think it would have been nice to have this known up front rather than be speculation for months.

Per the article, from what I've seen on their site, Nokia allows self-signing. I think it takes an extra step to have it operate on the device though, but that makes some sense.

I believe this decision was made by the vocal opinions of the iPhone users. If everyone just rolled-over and accepted the Web 2.0 apps then Apple wouldn't have made this announcement. So give thanks to those who stood up and complained.
post #50 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

I say we call a truce and party.

With you, no problem. I had little quarrel with you, just some statements by desarc were just out of sight.
post #51 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by josephwinters View Post

This should be one of those "Red" topics on the front page.

That's automated, if it gets a certain amount of traffic in a certain amount of time, then it will become red.
post #52 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTel View Post

I believe this decision was made by the vocal opinions of the iPhone users. If everyone just rolled-over and accepted the Web 2.0 apps then Apple wouldn't have made this announcement. So give thanks to those who stood up and complained.

I think it's possible either way. Apple has a tendency to not announce things until it's ready to go, and I think that's kind of a problem in gaging this. Announcing this can deflate the Nokia campaign, which interestingly, the letter mentioned Nokia by name, so there may be a connection.

Personally, I don't think it's likely that security was the primary reason for any delay in the SDK release, but rather, more because the API wasn't finalized or locked in yet, they wanted to get a working device out and making them money first. I think 1.1.1 did involve a change in a good part the API.
post #53 of 144
One word:

Finally!

I understand that it takes a while to nail down, document, get support in place for a platform SDK, but if it were planned from the start, it should have been announced at the start IMO.

Regardless, this has renewed some of my faith in the iPhone. The 1.1.1 update was a clear shot at the hacking community (and contradicted what Steve said in early interviews) and I was pretty much ready to jump ship for OpenMoko after that. This keeps the iPhone interesting for me.
 
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post #54 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

This news hasn't hurt the stock... it's at it's highest ever.

I would expect this to help the stock a great deal, esp after the analysts all have their say. This will silence the biggest critics of the phone who have beeen harping on this one aspect. It should increase phone sales in areas where, now it isn't selling well, such as big business, where Apple MUST become more involved.
post #55 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Yes, that does deserve an internet slap. *SLAP*

You starting in with that again!
post #56 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Mozzarella View Post

P.P.S.: The SDK will also allow developers to create applications for a future PDA/eBook type product, even though we have no intention of announcing such a product at MacWorld SF in January. And since we have a policy of not talking about future products, I can't tell you about its larger screen, stylus support, handwriting recognition or video conferencing capabilities. -Steve

Of all the comments I've read so far this one says it all. Good work!!!!!!
post #57 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTel View Post

I believe this decision was made by the vocal opinions of the iPhone users. If everyone just rolled-over and accepted the Web 2.0 apps then Apple wouldn't have made this announcement. So give thanks to those who stood up and complained.

I don't believe you are correct. As far as I can tell, the iPhone users were satisfied (for the most part) with Apple's product and offerings. It was iPhone user wannabe's that seemed most vocal. There was a ton of "I'm not even going to consider getting one 'till..." type of complaints.

And, my personal opinion is that they're still gunna just bitch, bitch, bitch. I think it's iPhone envy.
post #58 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by aegisdesign View Post

I think you have that backwards. Apple delayed Leopard to put developers onto the iPhone, or so the official line goes. I don't think they were telling lies.

iPhone OSX 1.0 wasn't Leopard though. IIRC the kernel was Tiger based.

1.1 added many of the security features that are in Leopard including the signed apps and sandbox. The iPhone hackers found it easy to break into 1.0 phones because most of the apps ran unsigned as the root user. Is iPhone OSX 1.1 Leopard? Probably close enough.

What's interesting is that Apple are adding features from iPhone OSX into Mac OSX. I don't remember them announcing signed apps before.

What developers? Apple is still the only developer for the iPhone, Apple would have separate teams working on Leopard and the iPhone anyway. They delayed leopard because it still had a lot to smooth out, but I believe it was originally intended to have Leopard out before the iphone came out, it only makes logical sense, same goes for the new iMac.
post #59 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlooker View Post

The part that sucks about it is that all that shit we were using for free will probably cost us an arm and leg now.

Yeah... PROBABLY A WHOLE $5

Dude, you paid how much for your phone? Obviously you aren't cheap.

I will gladly pay money know that the app I install is stable and will work after every firmware update. Quit your bitching.

post #60 of 144
It's great news, but it's interesting to speculate what prompted this sudden announcement. Leopard shipping, pressure from the media and developers or had they just planned it along? I think a little of both. Clearly the same programmers are working on Mac OS X and iPhone OS X which is why they shift them back and forth when needed. I guess they shifted back to the iPhone. The general media buzz seems to be positive, but some are wondering how open the development process will be.
post #61 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoolHandPete View Post

Right on.

Aside from the rumored comment Jobs made last week re: iCal functionality on the Touch - I am not a programmer, so can someone answer me this?

The more that i read on the net about sync'ing problems with the iPhone the more I believe that there are real bugs in the software that Apple is trying to avoid. Since they couldn't get them fixed in time for the Touch they likely just disabled the feature.
Quote:

Is it possible for a 3rd-party developer to create a Touch/iPhone application that will allow better iCal event creation/editing than iPhone's current application, while still syncing seamlessly with iCal on the base computer?

Sure given the API's and access rights any sort of application can be connected. This is why there is a big demand for a SDK, not to fix Apples software but to build your dream. Or if not your dream then somebody else's in a corporate world.
Quote:

If so, I've already said I will buy an iPod Touch immediately. I will also jump for joy if they upgrade its storage. And give it a video camera!

I've been very tempted by the TOUCH after the jailbreaks have come out. The Media Playing aspect of the device is only a small element in its usefulness. Or I should say potential usefulness.

Waiting for a better device may still be in order, but I'd be waiting for more RAM and bluetooth connections. The camera is one item I can live without, at least considering my present employment situation. The iPhone itself is out of the question due to its camera. I'm hoping that Apple gets the message that they need a camera free alternative.

The other reality is that the Touch will have competition in alternative devices. OpenMoko and Nokia's N800 series comes to mind. Yes OpenMoko is a cell also but price wise would be very competitive with the other internet access devices.

I really need a device that is more communicative than the current offerings form Apple. I believe such hardware is on the way, by the way.
Quote:

Thanks, Steve -

I'm not sure I'd want to thank Steve. This whole issue of software development could have been eliminated with a little communications. An announcement like this certainly has the look of responding to public pressure. That is a good thing of course but delivering a product like iPhone to market, in the rather unfinished state that it arrived in and leaving every body in the dark, is just really poor handling of the product.


Dave
post #62 of 144
This is great, if unexpected expected news

I laughed out loud when I read Steves swipe at Nokias "our phones are open NERR" ad campaign

Steve
Quote:
Nokia, for example, is not allowing any applications to be loaded onto some of their newest phones unless they have a digital signature that can be traced back to a known developer. While this makes such a phone less than totally open, we believe it is a step in the right direction.

Brilliant
I don't see how an anti M$ stance can be seen as a bad thing on an Apple forum I really can't!

nagromme - According to Amazon: "SpongBob Typing Tutor" is outselling Windows
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I don't see how an anti M$ stance can be seen as a bad thing on an Apple forum I really can't!

nagromme - According to Amazon: "SpongBob Typing Tutor" is outselling Windows
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post #63 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

That's automated, if it gets a certain amount of traffic in a certain amount of time, then it will become red.

I made mention the other day of the fact that one of the threads was RED despite the fact that there were no comments on it at all. Unless the servers are doing the timewarp AGAIN ??
I don't see how an anti M$ stance can be seen as a bad thing on an Apple forum I really can't!

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I don't see how an anti M$ stance can be seen as a bad thing on an Apple forum I really can't!

nagromme - According to Amazon: "SpongBob Typing Tutor" is outselling Windows
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post #64 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by aegisdesign View Post

I think you have that backwards. Apple delayed Leopard to put developers onto the iPhone, or so the official line goes. I don't think they were telling lies.

iPhone OSX 1.0 wasn't Leopard though. IIRC the kernel was Tiger based.

1.1 added many of the security features that are in Leopard including the signed apps and sandbox. The iPhone hackers found it easy to break into 1.0 phones because most of the apps ran unsigned as the root user. Is iPhone OSX 1.1 Leopard? Probably close enough.

What's interesting is that Apple are adding features from iPhone OSX into Mac OSX. I don't remember them announcing signed apps before.

The real meaning of the news....

Apple will release iPhone OSX based on Leopard on 2/2008 (probably will be some delays though) and an iPhone SDK with it.

It would have been stupid if Apple released an SDK based on Tiger, and then break all the third party apps in 6 months.
post #65 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by aegisdesign

I think you have that backwards. Apple delayed Leopard to put developers onto the iPhone, or so the official line goes. I don't think they were telling lies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by roehlstation View Post

What developers? Apple is still the only developer for the iPhone, Apple would have separate teams working on Leopard and the iPhone anyway. They delayed leopard because it still had a lot to smooth out, but I believe it was originally intended to have Leopard out before the iphone came out, it only makes logical sense, same goes for the new iMac.

aegis is referring to Apple's official explanation for delaying Leopard until October. Perhaps you haven't read it:

"However, iPhone contains the most sophisticated software ever shipped on a mobile device, and finishing it on time has not come without a price -- we had to borrow some key software engineering and QA resources from our Mac OS(R) X team, and as a result we will not be able to release Leopard at our Worldwide Developers Conference in early June as planned"
post #66 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amorya View Post

Yes, definitely. If he'd only have said this at the beginning there would have been very little bitching.

It was the "write a web app if you want to develop" line that everyone was up in arms about. I could easily have handled "We'll have an SDK next year; they're hard to write and will take time".

Amorya

exactly, this is what everyone has been waiting for.

Thanks for the announcement Steve.
post #67 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taskiss View Post

I don't believe you are correct.

He may or may not be correct, I lean to the idea that he is at least partly correct. The bigger issue is that the way this has been handled by Apple makes it look very much like what the poster suggests. There has been much about Apples handling of the iPhone and then the Touch that is questionable. Much of seems to be vary faulty understanding of what the consumer wants and what he finds acceptable.
Quote:

As far as I can tell, the iPhone users were satisfied (for the most part) with Apple's product and offerings.

This is far from the case, especially for business and more professional users. The iPhone or Touch are or where buggy, has issues with sync'ing and did not deliver everything advertised.

One of the big missing but advertised briefly feature was DiskMode on the Touch. This was a biggy to me as it is a feature that is wanted, I'd even like to see it on the iPhone.

The stories about the bugs are on the network if you care to look them up.
Quote:
It was iPhone user wannabe's that seemed most vocal. There was a ton of "I'm not even going to consider getting one 'till..." type of complaints.

I'm not sure why you call somebody declaring what is missing to satisfy their desire to buy a complaint. It is just a enumeration of needs. When you go to the car dealer you don't just take the model off the lot that is closes to you, you get one with the features you need. If it isn't on the lot you are at, you may very well go to another dealership. Frankly people are doing Apple a favor here and saving them a lot of time with marketing studies.

Now complaining about stuff that was or is missing that was advertised to be there is another thing and equally justifiable.
Quote:

And, my personal opinion is that they're still gunna just bitch, bitch, bitch.

Well for a while anyways. The reality is that there is real competition coming for both the Touch and the iPhone. When that gets here we can stop bitching and simply buy the hardware that suits our needs.

The problem is that Apple HARDWARE is the best on the market right now. So why not bitch about the lack of software? Lets be honest people bitch about the lack of software for the PS3 and no one thinks that is evil.
Quote:
I think it's iPhone envy.

Envy? That is a good question. The reality is that I've been in the Apple store several times looking at the iPhone, as both a personal purchase and a suggestion for a corporate project, and end up having to walk away. The release of a SDK may tip the scales in the future but one does not count the chickens before they are hatched.

For one of these uses the Touch would have been almost ideal if it had come with BlueTooth. Is it wrong to highlight that issue? I don't think so. Will Apple have new products on the market soon that solve some of these desire issues? Yep I think it is a given and in fact think the SDK is really coming to support a more PDA/Tablet like machine.

Dave
post #68 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taskiss View Post

I don't believe you are correct. As far as I can tell, the iPhone users were satisfied (for the most part) with Apple's product and offerings. It was iPhone user wannabe's that seemed most vocal.

Well, of course. The people that the iPhone does not satisfy aren't going to buy one. For some of us (like myself) we love a load of features such as multitouch, decent syncing, the whole iTunes bit... but find some other bits so critically lacking that we can't buy the phone and be happy overall. For me, allowing third party apps will solve all my major criticisms with iPhone except the lack of 3G.

Amorya
post #69 of 144
third app and a sdk mean a lot of good news:

Google apps and data on a cache for:
excel
word
power point

synchro with avantgo client

syncrho with exchange (you know the one that you cannot get rid of it at work)
for emails, contacts (important) and appointment/meetings

skype and voip on wifi.

gps ? (i still have a doubt on the hardware side)

my next palm could be an iphone after all no !
post #70 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

He may or may not be correct, I lean to the idea that he is at least partly correct. The bigger issue is that the way this has been handled by Apple makes it look very much like what the poster suggests. There has been much about Apples handling of the iPhone and then the Touch that is questionable. Much of seems to be vary faulty understanding of what the consumer wants and what he finds acceptable.

But, as you admit, you're not an iPhone customer. Informed consumers that have put cash on the barrel (by definition) knew what they were getting and were satisfied. I don't believe there were any appreciable number of iPhone customers who were dissatisfied - as long as you define "iPhone customer" as someone who actually purchased one of the phones with their own money.
post #71 of 144
Quote:
Some companies are already taking action. Nokia, for example, is not allowing any applications to be loaded onto some of their newest phones unless they have a digital signature that can be traced back to a known developer. While this makes such a phone less than totally open, we believe it is a step in the right direction. We are working on an advanced system which will offer developers broad access to natively program the iPhones amazing software platform while at the same time protecting users from malicious programs.

The devil will be in the details behind this statement. Just wait.

It *is* Apple, and it *is* Steve Jobs in the captain's chair...
post #72 of 144
This might be a stupid question... but does anyone think this is the sort of developement that might mean Mail for the ipod touch? and can anyone access .mac mail via safari on their Touch?
post #73 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

You starting in with that again!

*slap*
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #74 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by barney View Post

This might be a stupid question... but does anyone think this is the sort of developement that might mean Mail for the ipod touch? and can anyone access .mac mail via safari on their Touch?

That is a stupid question, you are very very stupid

You may be right though
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #75 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by troberts View Post

Reasons why SDK wasn't announced before:
  1. Need to shake out the bugs.
  2. iPod Touch is mentioned and Apple did not want to "show their hand".
  3. Some features are dependent on Leopard (Xcode 3.0/Obj-C 2.0) so it couldn't be released until Leopard was released.
  4. Steve wanted to surprise us at MWSF.
Reasons why SDK was announced now:
  1. Whiners.
  2. Ambulance chasing lawyers.

#1 reason SDK wasn't announced before is due to lack of developers.
post #76 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amorya View Post

Well, of course. The people that the iPhone does not satisfy aren't going to buy one. For some of us (like myself) we love a load of features such as multitouch, decent syncing, the whole iTunes bit... but find some other bits so critically lacking that we can't buy the phone and be happy overall. For me, allowing third party apps will solve all my major criticisms with iPhone except the lack of 3G.

Amorya

And THAT is why I consider it "complaining". Of all the phones on the market and all the manufactures making phones, Apple was the ONE manufacturer that came under fire for not providing the whiners with their "perfect phone experience".

Why is that? Perhaps 'cause Apple came the closest so far to making the perfect phone? And for that it deserves all the crap?

Damn. Let's just sue them.
post #77 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

My concern is that Apple may be reacting too much to the pressure and releasing the keys to the kingdom too early.
I want them to lock this baby down like a drum before they start letting every malware author take their crack.

Ever heard the phrase, "you don't take candy from strangers"?

How about YOU don't install apps from unknown authors?
post #78 of 144
So how long after Feb. for M$ to build Outlook w/ Exchange for iPhone?
I never get tired of being right all the time... but I do get tired of having to prove it to you again and again.
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I never get tired of being right all the time... but I do get tired of having to prove it to you again and again.
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post #79 of 144
This is certainly great news! I'm with those who argee that this may not have happened if it were not for those vocal users and developers who demanded it. Thanks to Apple for communicating that they will come through.

Opening up to 3rd party apps certainly makes the current software differences between the iPhone and the iPod touch all the more confusing. Does Apple really want 3rd parties developing Notes, Calendaring, Mail, weather, etc. applications for the iPod touch? That is what is bound to happen if the current differences stay in place.

Now, I have to decide if I want to change carriers and get an iPhone, or if I should just go with the iPod touch.
post #80 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Unlike Myself View Post

So how long after Feb. for M$ to build Outlook w/ Exchange for iPhone?

<Squirt!>
Right after they finish their VirtualZune emulator product.

--
Squirted from my ZunePhone
</Squirt!>
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