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Office X .... what if you have 2 boxes ?

post #1 of 69
Thread Starter 
Ummm, not sure which forum this best bleongs to, but...

the rumour is tha tyou can not install office X on 2 separate computers - even if you own them both. I have a G4 867 and a G4 dual 500 and I share internet access between them thought my airport (my wife/children still cue up to get access). As expected I also use the OS x 'connect to server' feature and 'network' them too.

If I buy a legitimite Office X and try to install them on both machines I am kind of afraid that *
1. I just wont be able to do it,
2. even if I can do it the first time that i connect the two boxes via the airport that somehow the Office X will recognise that the same rego is on separate boxes, and do something terrible to me
3. If I am logged into anything with a passport from either /both G4s (messenger/hotmail etc) somehow this will be picked up.

Am I paranoid.... is anything like th above likely to happen.... if so what can I do. I thinnk it is only fair that I should be able to install legitimite software on 2 computers that I own (they are even in the same room !!).

What do you think
Cheers
adam
post #2 of 69
Thread Starter 
I guess it was too much to hope that my old post count would survive. here's to new beginnings!
post #3 of 69
That's microsoft for you.

What I would do: Buy your copy,

And grab another cracked serial number from the web.

That's moral enough, wouldn't you say? <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />
post #4 of 69
From what I understand, the Office v.X broadcasts a signal on your local network while it is running. If you try to start a second copy on your second computer that is networked with the first that is already running it, you will get a message saying that "you don't have enough licences to start Office." If your computers aren't networked there is no problem.

So, you will be able to install Office v.X on all of your computers, but you will only be able to run it and use it on one computer at a time.

I still think this is a pain in the ass and hope somebody creates a workaround. I have two computers and run one copy of Office on both. It will be very inconvenient to have to quit Office on one machine in order to use it on the other.

I look forward to using Office v.X, because it's a great product. But I'm really sick of MS's overzealous copyright enforcement. I understand going after commercial companies that pirate software. But go after the average home user who paid for one licence and wants to use Office on his desktop and laptop? Give me a freakin' break!

Escher
"The only laptop computer that's useful is the one you have with you."
Until we get a 3 lbs sub-PowerBook, the 12-inch PowerBook will do.
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"The only laptop computer that's useful is the one you have with you."
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post #5 of 69
[quote]Originally posted by corvette:
<strong>Buy your copy, And grab another cracked serial number from the web.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Very interesting thought, corvette. I wonder how far the signal that Office brodcasts goes. I'd certainly have no moral qualms about using a cracked serial number in the way described above.

Escher
"The only laptop computer that's useful is the one you have with you."
Until we get a 3 lbs sub-PowerBook, the 12-inch PowerBook will do.
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"The only laptop computer that's useful is the one you have with you."
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post #6 of 69
One more point:

I haven't researched the law, but I would venture to guess that running Office on two computers but only using it on one at a time qualifies as "fair use." I wonder whether we could sue Microsoft for infringing upon our right to fair use. Maybe I could explore this option as a special project in law school. Guess I'll have to wait until I'm done with the Copyright class in the Spring and have a clue of what I'm talking about.

As a sidenote, ironically, I used to work for the law firm that represents Microsoft in the DOJ and other antitrust cases. I was even involved in discovery for one of the trials. I'm not proud of it, but it was a good professional experience.

Escher
"The only laptop computer that's useful is the one you have with you."
Until we get a 3 lbs sub-PowerBook, the 12-inch PowerBook will do.
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"The only laptop computer that's useful is the one you have with you."
Until we get a 3 lbs sub-PowerBook, the 12-inch PowerBook will do.
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post #7 of 69
I can confirm that it does this. HIGHLY annoying. It happens if you're using ANY Office X app on one computer, and you open ANY one on another.. I generally like to leave my email open so it can just go about it's schedules and tell me when I've got mail, but then I can't open Word or anything on another computer while it's open. So I can't do that anymore. I put Entourage on my mom's computer too and now we can't check our mail at the same time.

I personally disagree with the stupid copyrights about one copy, per household, per person, per computer, at a time thing. They can't seriously expect a parent or something to pay over a thousand dollars for TWO copies of this, just so they and their child can check email or write a letter at the same time! Or a single person, buying a double license? Does that sound wrong to you, or is it just me? LUDICROUS.

I'm definitely finding a warezed serial ASAP.

[ 11-15-2001: Message edited by: bradbower ]</p>
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post #8 of 69
Well I decided to do some detective work. I had the idea that it was probably a constantly open, possibly broadcasting port, so what better way to find itt than Network Utility?

Here are my results:

Before Entourage was open:

Port Scanning host: 127.0.0.1

\t Open Port: \t21\t\tftp
\t Open Port: \t22\t\tssh
\t Open Port: \t407
\t Open Port: \t427
\t Open Port: \t548
\t Open Port: \t3000
\t Open Port: \t3031

After Entourage was open:

Port Scanning host: 127.0.0.1

\t Open Port: \t21\t\tftp
\t Open Port: \t22\t\tssh
\t Open Port: \t407
\t Open Port: \t427
\t Open Port: \t548
\t Open Port: \t3000
\t Open Port: \t3031
\t Open Port: \t3858

I had a feeling that I should make sure it doesn't change, so here's after Entourage was open, for the second time, and sure enough:

Port Scanning host: 127.0.0.1

\t Open Port: \t21\t\tftp
\t Open Port: \t22\t\tssh
\t Open Port: \t407
\t Open Port: \t427
\t Open Port: \t548
\t Open Port: \t3000
\t Open Port: \t3031
\t Open Port: \t3618

I quit and reopened it again, and here's what it came up with the third time:

Port Scanning host: 127.0.0.1

\t Open Port: \t21\t\tftp
\t Open Port: \t22\t\tssh
\t Open Port: \t407
\t Open Port: \t427
\t Open Port: \t548
\t Open Port: \t3000
\t Open Port: \t3031
\t Open Port: \t3075

Looks like it won't be as easy as just blocking a port. If anything it would be necessary to block all ports between 3000 and 4000, but I have no idea a) how it would react then or b) what other applications/daemons use those port numbers that would be blocked. I'm thinking that to disable this may require reverse engineering.

Blah Micro$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$oft.
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post #9 of 69
Read the EULA

Photoshop does the same thing in my lab network when I accidentally entered the same serial twice.

(Hey software companies, when someone pays for 30 different copies of the same software at once, at least be nice enough to break up the serial numbers and not plop them down on one big list with no line breaks)
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post #10 of 69
Man, I would soooo love to see Microsoft (or really any big corp) get sued for fair use violation. That right has been steadily going down the crapper for the last few years, and it really bugs me that no one is doing anything about it.
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post #11 of 69
[quote]Originally posted by bradbower:
<strong>Well I decided to do some detective work. I had the idea that it was probably a constantly open, possibly broadcasting port, so what better way to find itt than Network Utility?
</strong><hr></blockquote>

Microsoft is really being a smartass on this. The ever-changing port sure is sneaky. With always on Internet access via DSL, I worry about unauthorized access to my system. But unauthorized broadcasting from my system by a company that I buy products from irks me significantly more.

The way I see it, the MBU was forced from above to implement a copyright enforcement feature in some way. I guess we're lucky that we didn't get Windows XP's activation "feature". But it still bothers me immensely that we have to deal with this at all.

Escher
"The only laptop computer that's useful is the one you have with you."
Until we get a 3 lbs sub-PowerBook, the 12-inch PowerBook will do.
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"The only laptop computer that's useful is the one you have with you."
Until we get a 3 lbs sub-PowerBook, the 12-inch PowerBook will do.
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post #12 of 69
[quote]Originally posted by Solishu:
<strong>Man, I would soooo love to see Microsoft (or really any big corp) get sued for fair use violation. That right has been steadily going down the crapper for the last few years, and it really bugs me that no one is doing anything about it.</strong><hr></blockquote>

My friend bought a copy of DeltaForce LandWarrior and he tried to make a copy of it (He is a moron and he lays his CDs around so they get scratched up. Rather than learn proper handling he just makes copies. ). NovaLogic put a burn-shit in there so I sent them an e-mail outlining fair use policy. Guess what he got in the mail a few days later, three CDs with LandWarrior on them.

I sent them another e-mail since this didn't fix the problem at all and they e-mailed back with a workaround (replacing files at certain times and blah blah blah).

Infuriating.
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post #13 of 69
[quote]Originally posted by bradbower:
<strong>Looks like it won't be as easy as just blocking a port.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Would it be possible to block all ports without cutting off Internet access? I don't run any server apps on my systems and don't need to access them remotely either. But I do like to be connected to the 'Net at all times.

When I scan the ports on my system with the Network Utility, I get

Port Scanning host: 192.168.1.100

and nothing else, even though I am connected to the Internet via AirPort. Of course, I won't be running Office v.X for a few weeks longer since it's not yet available to the public.

Escher

[ 11-15-2001: Message edited by: Escher ]</p>
"The only laptop computer that's useful is the one you have with you."
Until we get a 3 lbs sub-PowerBook, the 12-inch PowerBook will do.
Reply
"The only laptop computer that's useful is the one you have with you."
Until we get a 3 lbs sub-PowerBook, the 12-inch PowerBook will do.
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post #14 of 69
I'm working on finding an identifier for the port which MS apps are using. It should be easy to write a Perl script to close things down.
Chicanery.
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post #15 of 69
[quote]Originally posted by Belle:
<strong>I'm working on finding an identifier for the port which MS apps are using. It should be easy to write a Perl script to close things down.</strong><hr></blockquote>Sweet
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post #16 of 69
Micro$oft are being a right pain in the arse about this. I have two machines, and cannot afford to buy two copies of the suite.

I cannot remember where i read it, probably MacNN forums, in the days before the Cube had been restarted . Anyway, try blocking port 2222 on the host machines.

Regards
AJ

[ 11-15-2001: Message edited by: Mr A J ]</p>
post #17 of 69
It's quite possible that it will keep cycling through looking for an available port, and on top of that, the app may refuse to open without an available port.
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post #18 of 69
[quote]Originally posted by Belle:
<strong>the app may refuse to open without an available port.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Could the app tell the difference between not being on a network and all ports being blocked? If the app's cycle mechanism is sophisticated enough (and I am sure it is), it will find a port unless all of them are locked down.

Belle: Do you know the answer to my question above, i.e. would it be possible to block all ports without cutting off Internet access?

Escher
"The only laptop computer that's useful is the one you have with you."
Until we get a 3 lbs sub-PowerBook, the 12-inch PowerBook will do.
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"The only laptop computer that's useful is the one you have with you."
Until we get a 3 lbs sub-PowerBook, the 12-inch PowerBook will do.
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post #19 of 69
[quote]Originally posted by groverat:
<strong>Read the EULA

Photoshop does the same thing in my lab network when I accidentally entered the same serial twice.

(Hey software companies, when someone pays for 30 different copies of the same software at once, at least be nice enough to break up the serial numbers and not plop them down on one big list with no line breaks)</strong><hr></blockquote>

Adobe apps use the same serial on all installations, so if you have a 30 user license you should get a 30 user serial number.
JLL

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post #20 of 69
[quote]Originally posted by bradbower:
<strong>I personally disagree with the stupid copyrights about one copy, per household, per person, per computer, at a time thing. They can't seriously expect a parent or something to pay over a thousand dollars for TWO copies of this, just so they and their child can check email or write a letter at the same time!</strong><hr></blockquote>

Student License ??
JLL

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JLL

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post #21 of 69
Does the check happen all the time, or just during Application launching? And if another Office app is already running locally, does it still check the network?

The reason is simple, at least for me. I switch off my AirPort and launch my 2nd copy of office. Then switch it back on. Hopefully, since both copies of Office are running when the net connections are restored, everything would be OK.
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post #22 of 69
Anyone who has bought SCO Unix is fully aware of the effects of proper activation. Microsoft should have done this years ago.If it had it wouldn't have had to charge such outragous prices for it's product. The problem is that as each copy of Office sold it is installed on multiple machines and so it has been essential to charge a really high price.

I suspect that if MS reduced the price by 1/2 but made the licence really secure like SCO most users would accept it. If they then charged a porting fee if a user wants to move to a new machine that would compensate MS because they would not know if it were to be gunueinly moved or just installed on a sceond machine at the same time. If they were really clever they could develop an un-installer which would generate a new activation code allowing the user to re-install on another macnine.
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post #23 of 69
Thread Starter 
Thanks for all of the thoughts, but short of the cracked code option (and Im not sure how that would go mapped from the same IP against my real copy), it seems like MS has got us stumped. I guess that we might have to wait and see what happens whenn people get it in their hands.

I will be very disturbed if I could not run my own software on either of my G4s.

Any ideas very gratefully accepted!
cheers
adam
post #24 of 69
[quote]Originally posted by Adam11:
<strong>Thanks for all of the thoughts, but short of the cracked code option (and Im not sure how that would go mapped from the same IP against my real copy), it seems like MS has got us stumped. I guess that we might have to wait and see what happens whenn people get it in their hands.

I will be very disturbed if I could not run my own software on either of my G4s.

Any ideas very gratefully accepted!
cheers
adam</strong><hr></blockquote>

I rather think MS lawyers will tell you it is not your own software that you have purchased it is their software. You have purchased a license to install it on at most two machines and run it on no more than one at a time.

Its not just MS - Apple are the same for OSX. Its just that Apple don't check.

If you have two machines and you can't afford two copies how is that different from having one machine and not being able to afford one copy ?

As for fair use MS claim they will let you keep it on more than one machine but just not use it one more than one machine. I agree not being able to open Excel on one machine and Word on another is a bit over the top but I guess its the same as not being able to buy just Word and Excel without PowerPoint (which I never use) and getting a discount.

Don't get me wrong I agree the stuff is outrageously overpriced. I just don't see how far you get with the argument that its overpriced therefore I don't have to pay for it.

I'm happy to be convinced otherwise :-)

Michael
post #25 of 69
[quote]Originally posted by JLL:
<strong>

Student License ??</strong><hr></blockquote>

For college students only. Verrry helpful to high school students when they have M$ Office at school and need it at home...
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post #26 of 69
Has anyone had luck blocking the broadcast port yet?
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post #27 of 69
Have you guys seen <a href="http://forums.appleinsider.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=3&t=000029" target="_blank">this thread</a> over in Software?

It's scary to think that Kevin Browne said that MBU would have implemented Windows XP's activation "feature" in Office v.X if they had the time and manpower. I'll believe it when I read the original interview in German, but it's a daunting thought. The profit-maximizing policies of large corporations are starting to take the fun out of being a consumer.

Escher
"The only laptop computer that's useful is the one you have with you."
Until we get a 3 lbs sub-PowerBook, the 12-inch PowerBook will do.
Reply
"The only laptop computer that's useful is the one you have with you."
Until we get a 3 lbs sub-PowerBook, the 12-inch PowerBook will do.
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post #28 of 69
[quote]Originally posted by graphiteman:
<strong>Has anyone had luck blocking the broadcast port yet?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Gotta get Office v.X first. It's not shipping until Nov. 19. Note that I always pay for one copy of my applications and don't pirate software over the Internet.

Escher
"The only laptop computer that's useful is the one you have with you."
Until we get a 3 lbs sub-PowerBook, the 12-inch PowerBook will do.
Reply
"The only laptop computer that's useful is the one you have with you."
Until we get a 3 lbs sub-PowerBook, the 12-inch PowerBook will do.
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post #29 of 69
First, Escher. No, you can't block all of your ports--you have to use "ports" to have any sort of network traffic, server or not. Servers use ports and keep them open, whether listening or broadcasting, waiting for information to send more information back, so you could say that Office X now has it's own little server inside of it. Anyway, if you were to block all of your ports, your computer's internet connection would be useless. And as far as I know, it may require a log-out, a reconnection, or possibly even a restart (at least of OS X's TCP stack) in order to open/block ports. So that's out of the question--however you're on the right track--one certainly could block all ports between 3000 and 4000 (or 3001 for me, I use port 3000 for my http server), assuming no applications or servers that you wish to continue using access those ports, and then it wouldn't be able to listen or broadcast, if that is the extent of the range of ports it can access. As Belle said, though, if it can't access a port in that range, it may not even function, whether by error, or in case the programmers of Office X presumed users might try this to circumvent the ludicrous licensing scheme. I don't know how to try that, though, or else I would. Any y00n1x experts out there that know about these things?!

Next, JLL, I have to ask: have you ever seen student licensing prices? Most of them are just as much of a joke to a college kid as the regular retail price. Not only that, but what about elementary, junior high, or high school students that want to use this software? What if Daddy is trying to make a canned PowerPoint about his division's quarterly earnings, and little Trisha wants to type up her lab reports, and David wants to send an email to a friend about the track meet or something? Are they expected to buy THREE licenses of each of the four Office applications just to do this? I don't even know if Microsoft Office X has student licenses yet, but even if it does, that's still probably going to be a thousand dollars. For a few programs. Insane.
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post #30 of 69
[quote]Originally posted by bradbower:


What if Daddy is trying to make a canned PowerPoint about his division's quarterly earnings, and little Trisha wants to type up her lab reports, and David wants to send an email to a friend about the track meet or something? Are they expected to buy THREE licenses of each of the four Office applications just to do this? <hr></blockquote>

Yes.

Mind you I rather expect they are all using the copy Daddy got from the office to install on his machine at home under an extended license.

Isn't the MS email ( I have never used it) a free application ?

Michael
post #31 of 69
[quote]Originally posted by corvette:
<strong>That's microsoft for you.What I would do: Buy your copy,And grab another cracked serial number from the web. </strong><hr></blockquote>

iwhat's a cracked serial number, if i may ask? <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
post #32 of 69
The fun out of being a consumer? Did you really just say that? hehe

Companies really should just give away their software, that'll make life fun again.


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post #33 of 69
Yeah just ask MS.. Free software is Un-American and needs to stop! (well the GPL anyhow) Of course giving away IE is ok
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post #34 of 69
[quote]Originally posted by mmurray:
<strong>

Isn't the MS email ( I have never used it) a free application ?

</strong><hr></blockquote>

They do make a free app, but the one in question is the bundled (and not seperately available) Microsoft Entourage. It has Tasks, a calendar, advanced email features, and it's wonderful.
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post #35 of 69
[quote]Originally posted by mmurray:
<strong>

If you have two machines and you can't afford two copies how is that different from having one machine and not being able to afford one copy ?

</strong><hr></blockquote>


Wow! I like that point pretty much.

My position was and is: If I own one copy, it's fair to use it on both of my machines. If they happen to run simultaneously, which isnt't too often the case, who cares.

This new position translates as follows: Running two copies when only one of them is legally licensed is just as much of an offense as running one pirated copy. This again is pretty much the same as running two pirated copies, so why bother about forking over the money for one copy, when they incriminate you anyway?

These suckers are so damn greedy, it makes me sick.

PS: Personally, I don't use any Microsoft software. I do own some of it, siting unused on the shelf, but being controlled and treated like a criminal just isn't my cup of tea anymore.

[ 11-17-2001: Message edited by: hacmac ]</p>
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post #36 of 69
The beef here is generally with licensing practices and how not only do these types of tactics supposedly not conform to fair use, but even then they're just inane.

If three people in my family want to use different parts of Office, I'm not going to buy three licenses. If Microsoft really thinks that anybody is going to buy more than one copy of Office, they should at LEAST make it so that when my mom is reading her email in Entourage, I can open a document in MS word--I can't. I'm going to have to resort to finding a serial (Surfer's Serials, try #macfiles on irc.macfiles.net, whoever it was that asked) once Office X gets out. I guess it gets released tomorrow, right?

Also, to those of you who are saying installing a copy of a $600 productivity suite from the richest software company in the world on more than one computer is piracy, that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. And believe you me, that's not a good thing to hear from somebody like myself.
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post #37 of 69
[quote]Originally posted by bradbower:
<strong>Well I decided to do some detective work. I had the idea that it was probably a constantly open, possibly broadcasting port, so what better way to find itt than Network Utility? </strong><hr></blockquote>

Correct me if im wrong, but when you use any email program does it not find an available port to send information from? Just out of curiosity, could you try the same test using word, powerpoint, or excel and see if you get the same result, thanks.
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post #38 of 69
Don't be surprised if you get burned when sitting so near the fire.

What everyone here ought to be doing is NOT using Office. Find and enforce alternatives. If someone asks why, simply inform them of Microsoft's practices. If they shrug their shoulders, then ask them if they will be shrugging their shoulders when it is their home or business that Microsoft wants additional thousands of dollars from.

I personally hope Microsoft finds a way to make it impossible to use their software in a pirated manner. Then people will insist on some real, affordable alternatives. This is already happening big time on the PC side and Mac is going to get left in the dust due to lax enforcement.

I know it sounds crazy, stupid and backwards. The real point is that in this day and age, office apps shouldn't cost what Microsoft charges. When people desire alternatives, they will appear, when they just pirate the standard they don't. This is true be it Mac or PC.

On the PC side there is Star Office, and 602ProSuite just to begin with, on the Mac there is.............

Ata minimum you all ought to demand Apple start doing something decent with Appleworks...

Nick

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post #39 of 69
[quote]Originally posted by bradbower:
<strong>Next, JLL, I have to ask: have you ever seen student licensing prices? Most of them are just as much of a joke to a college kid as the regular retail price. Not only that, but what about elementary, junior high, or high school students that want to use this software? What if Daddy is trying to make a canned PowerPoint about his division's quarterly earnings, and little Trisha wants to type up her lab reports, and David wants to send an email to a friend about the track meet or something? Are they expected to buy THREE licenses of each of the four Office applications just to do this? I don't even know if Microsoft Office X has student licenses yet, but even if it does, that's still probably going to be a thousand dollars. For a few programs. Insane.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Since I don't live in the US I don't know the US student license pricing, but in Denmark a student license of Office is $95, and the requirement is that you have to go to school or have children in schools - any kid age 6 and above (or their parents) can buy a student license of Office in Denmark.

[ 11-19-2001: Message edited by: JLL ]</p>
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JLL

95% percent of the boat is owned by Microsoft, but the 5% Apple controls happens to be the rudder!
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post #40 of 69
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Anyone now actually able to confirm this one way or another based on actual experience.... I am especially interested in G4s joined by an Airport connection.

I usually only access the internet similtaneously from the 2 G4s, but I also occasionally use the connect to server function through the Go Finder menu Item..... When exactly will I run into problems with the same copy of office X on them both - with internet or local connection?
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