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Office X .... what if you have 2 boxes ? - Page 2

post #41 of 69
for the record, standard ports to have open are (IIRC):

20 & 21 FTP
23 SMTP (email)
80 http (web pages)

The best way to block off other ports is firewall software. If you feel leet, you may want to fool about with (lucky guess: ) iptables or something.

Check out imaclinux.net and look for iptables and or firewall tutorials. The gist of them apply to your Mac OS X box, though the files will be in different locations.
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No, the bazaar cannot satisfy users. Neither can the cathedral. Nothing can satisfy users, because software is written to enable rather than satisfy, and because most users are mewling malcontents...
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post #42 of 69
[quote]Originally posted by Escher:
<strong>

Microsoft is really being a smartass on this. The ever-changing port sure is sneaky. </strong><hr></blockquote>


What cracks me up is..MS finds the time to code a program to do this.. but they can't find the time to make sure the app has no security holes.

"Who cares about security as long as a products aren't being used more than once!"
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The crucial memorandum will be snared in the out-basket by
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post #43 of 69
Haha, anyway, just goto like <a href="http://www.macserialjunkie.com" target="_blank">www.macserialjunkie.com</a> and spare yourself some serials dude. Life sucks, and then there are serials. Weee.
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post #44 of 69
[quote]Originally posted by hacmac:
<strong>

My position was and is: If I own one copy, it's fair to use it on both of my machines.


[ 11-17-2001: Message edited by: hacmac ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

Its a nice idea. But I think you will find that few licence agreements actually say that. Sadly the legally binding license agreement is the one on the packet written by the M$ lawyers not the one we would all like to have!

Michael
post #45 of 69
Regarding the Microsoft and their "over-zealous" copy protection scheme. Although they have quite a stranglehold on the market, it is fair for them to request that one copy is purchased for each CPU. Running two copies of Office v.X concurrently would be a violation of the EULA, and MS is merely trying to enforce this by having the application check for duplicate serial numbers. Be thankful it isn't sending any checks to a central authentication server.

As for blocking the ports, there are a few ways to go about this. If you have a hardware router, you may be able to set up a firewall within your LAN to try to prevent computers from communicating on certain ports. The other (more popular) method is setting up a firewall using OS X's built in firewall software, which is referred to as TCP wrappers, if I recall correctly. This way, each machine on your network will restrict traffic going on certain ports, or a certain range of ports (i.e. 3000-3999) without affecting normal network traffic (like ftp on 21, www on 80, telnet on 23, ssh on 22, etc). I think I have a tutorial for those that are not *NIX inclined, but remember, Microsoft implemented this copyright scheme as a way to protect their own best interests in terms of capitalism and not simply as a mechanism to make pirates/stingy consumers angry.

:: edit: typos

[ 12-01-2001: Message edited by: bradd ]</p>
post #46 of 69
The EULA for Office X clearly states that the primary user may make a second copy for use on a portable computer. That is, if you install Office X on your iMac you may also install it on your iBook, as long as it is for your use and not someone else's.

[quote]The primary user of the Computer on which the Software Product is installed may make a second copy for his or her exclusive use on a portable computer.<hr></blockquote>

The quote is from the EULA in the Office X Help program. The EULA on the Office X CD has similar language.

[ 12-01-2001: Message edited by: CaseCom ]</p>
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post #47 of 69
Thread Starter 
Bradd, I am happy to pay USD450 for Office. I am not 'stingy' for not wanting to pay USD900 for having it on my 2 G4s which are in my study one metre apart and only used by me.

I wish I had your financial resources which must be considerable.

cheers
Adam
post #48 of 69
&lt;steps on soapbox&gt;

I think software companies are entitled to protect their software and be justly compensated for their work. I'm sure the software prices would be a lot lower if 80% of it wasn't pirated.

Microsoft might be a huge monolith of a company, but let us not forget hundreds of medium and small software developers get ripped off too.

How would you feel if your work was always ripped off and your livelihood was reduced because of it? Pretty shitty I'd bet.

Given the commodization of computers, I do believe the EULA should allow for two home computers to use the software at the same time.

&lt;steps off soapbox&gt;
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post #49 of 69
[quote]Originally posted by NeoMac:
<strong>Given the commodization of computers, I do believe the EULA should allow for two home computers to use the software at the same time. </strong><hr></blockquote>

NeoMac: I wholeheartedly agree with your assessment. Even though these elaborate copy protection schemes are a royal pain in the ass, even a monolithic monopolist like Microsoft is allowed to protect its intellectual property. However, a slight expansion of the applied definition of fair use to go along with increased enforcement would only be fair (pun intended).

Escher

[ 12-05-2001: Message edited by: Escher ]</p>
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Until we get a 3 lbs sub-PowerBook, the 12-inch PowerBook will do.
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"The only laptop computer that's useful is the one you have with you."
Until we get a 3 lbs sub-PowerBook, the 12-inch PowerBook will do.
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post #50 of 69
[Note that I cross-posted a simlar report to the Office v.X thread in the Software forum.]

After a week of attempts in vain, I finally managed to download a copy of Office v.X to try out until Microsoft manages to produce and ship my boxed version.

Obviously, Word is now able to print (unlike the Test Drive). Also, the style menus are now WYSIWYG. Excel works well. MSN Messenger got a new icon and version number, but I haven't seen any improvements. I rarely use PowerPoint and have yet to test it out. As for Entourage, there's no way I would abandon Eudora and trust my mail to MS.

As a precaution, I turned off AirPort while starting up. I did a port scan later to see if Word would start broadcasting after I turned AirPort back on.

If you start Office while disconnected from your network, it won't start broadcasting when you turn the network back on. However, if your network connection is live when you start any Office application, Office will broadcast on a random port in the 3xxx range. I tried this 10 times, and Office broadcast on a different port each time. I haven't tried blocking the 3xxx ports to see whether office will go beyond that range.

I haven't installed Office v.X on my (networked) Rev.A iMac yet. It is still running only the Classic OS (9.2.1) due to space constraints on the 4GB drive. So I'm not expecting any problems with running two copies (one licenced and one unlicensed) of Office v.X for now.

PS: For a small shock, put Excel and PowerPoint icons next to each other in your Dock. Do you think MS intentionally put this subliminal reminder about Windows XP in Office v.X? I had to move the icons to remedy the situation.

Escher

[ 12-05-2001: Message edited by: Escher ]</p>
"The only laptop computer that's useful is the one you have with you."
Until we get a 3 lbs sub-PowerBook, the 12-inch PowerBook will do.
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"The only laptop computer that's useful is the one you have with you."
Until we get a 3 lbs sub-PowerBook, the 12-inch PowerBook will do.
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post #51 of 69
If anyone wants a serial # and doesn't know where to get one I suggest private messaging people in this thread who sound like they might have one.

On a side note I've made it a life long goal never to actually PAY for MS software. They have a monopoly so like I have any choice in wether or not I should use it. (Appleworks won't cut it for compatibility, neither will wordperfect.. etc). This copyright BS is a perfect example of how this will only hurt their legitimate customers. Someone who downloads office off the net isn't going to have a problem getting around the cp.
post #52 of 69
Good sugestion Pioner. I also have an never well pay for MS products. I dont feel its nessisary to pay for it while MS is allowed to cpommit fellonies. I also had the same problem with having 2 Mac's on the same network. You can block all the port 3000 - 4000 and s af few others I think to get it to work or you can unplug your ethernet connetcion before you start up Office I think. (I hear it works) then plug it back in. Or you could use diffrent serial number. I didnt block any ports and mine works now.

Hit: I can help
post #53 of 69
Simple solutions for simple problems. Type in the following in the Terminal, either as root or sudo it.

ipfw add 1 reject udp from any to any 2222

Shazam, Office X is cut off from snooping on your LAN.
You have to redo this after a restart, so it might be handy to make it run at startup...

Cheers.
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post #54 of 69
Could someone send me Word v.X so I can have it in the mean time until I convince my parents to get it for me?
post #55 of 69
Is it legal for me to download a copy of office after calling and placing an order for it?

And can someone post the EULA for Office? I'd like to examine it very carefully to find loopholes.
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post #56 of 69
[quote]Originally posted by vans:
<strong>Simple solutions for simple problems. Type in the following in the Terminal, either as root or sudo it.

ipfw add 1 reject udp from any to any 2222

Shazam, Office X is cut off from snooping on your LAN.
You have to redo this after a restart, so it might be handy to make it run at startup...


Vans

I'm not familure with those commands what do they do? Also, to make it a startup script do I just make the first letter in the file name a cappital S? then put it in what directory?

-evildead
Cheers. </strong><hr></blockquote>

[ 12-06-2001: Message edited by: evildead ]</p>
post #57 of 69
[quote]Originally posted by evildead:
<strong>

[ 12-06-2001: Message edited by: evildead ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

evildead:

In directory /Library/StartupItems define a directory called BlockOffice. You now have /Library/StartupItems/BlockOffice.

In the BlockOffice directory create a text script file as follows

#!/bin/sh
ipfw add 1 reject udp from any to any 2222

and name this file OfficeBlocker and make it executable (chmod u+x ./OfficeBlocker)

Now create a file named StartupParameters.plist as follows using your favorite Terminal.app editor

{
Description = "Office v.X Blocker";
Provides = ("OfficeBlocker");
Requires = ("Resolver");
Uses = ("Network Time","NFS");
OrderPreference = "Late";
Messages = {
start = "Starting OfficeBlocker Services";
stop = "Stopping OfficeBlocker Services";
};
}

Now whenever you boot the ipfw command should be executed.

I've not checked any of the above out (and it could contain errors), but conceptualy this is how you can do things of this kind at startup. There are other ways to do this also such as modifying the /etc/rc scripts.

BTW the ipfw command may or may not do what you want as I've not checked any of this out yet -- just wanted to give you something to be working on

Regards... Barry Sharp
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post #58 of 69
Developers have been doing this for years. I know as a fact that Adobe, Quark and AutoDesk (or whoever released the Mac version of AutoCAD) all were comparing serial numbers over Appletalk networks by 1994.

Don't be Microsoft whiners. If I were a Microsoft shareholder I'd be applauding the registration system for XP. It's going to cut piracy a great deal.

In a household with multiple networked macs and a single copy of office, you'll just have to run Outlook Express on some of them instead of Entourage, and take turns using Word and Excel. Get over it.
post #59 of 69
Thread Starter 
How many MAC Boxes/Users in your houshold Tonton ?

It is easier for some to get over than others i suspect.

Cheers
adam
post #60 of 69
[quote] If I were a Microsoft shareholder I'd be applauding the registration system for XP. It's going to cut piracy a great deal.<hr></blockquote>

Only from those who actually bought a copy and would, rightfully so, like to install it on more than one computer. If you own 3 macs your expected to go and buy 3 copies of office? Give me a break, that's blatant robbery.
post #61 of 69
[quote]Originally posted by NeoMac:
<strong>I'm sure the software prices would be a lot lower if 80% of it wasn't pirated.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Funny. I see the opposite as true.

I'm sure if the software prices were a lot lower, 80% of it wouldn't be pirated.

<img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
post #62 of 69
[quote]Originally posted by graphiteman:
<strong>Is it legal for me to download a copy of office after calling and placing an order for it?

And can someone post the EULA for Office? I'd like to examine it very carefully to find loopholes.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Opinions?
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post #63 of 69
[quote]Originally posted by pioneer:
<strong> Only from those who actually bought a copy and would, rightfully so, like to install it on more than one computer. If you own 3 macs your expected to go and buy 3 copies of office? Give me a break, that's blatant robbery.</strong><hr></blockquote>

There's nothing stopping you from buying one copy of Office v.X and installing it on all your Macs.

As I said, though, you'll have to take turns, or turn off networking.

If your family can afford two Macs which can support OS X, you can probably afford to pay Microsoft what they deserve for their technology. If you can't, then give thanks for your multiple macs, tighten your belt and take turns.

Right now I have a PowerBook G4 and my wife has a Windows notebook. Next year I plan on buying her an iBook. We'll definitely be networked via airport.

I'll install her copy of AppleWorks on my PowerBook. I'll install my copy of Office on her iBook. We will take turns using these as necessary. Meanwhile we'll be sure and have copies of icWord or another Word file reader.

Sharing would also apply in regards to Entourage and Outlook Express. You can set both of these programs to access the same email database so it won't matter which one you use for email.
post #64 of 69
It always goes over port 222 and then sends over a random one on 222 between 3000 and 4000. Just block 222 in the command line with this command:

sudo ipfw add 0 deny udp from any to any 2222

And then the check will not occur.
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post #65 of 69
Why is it robbery for Microsoft to not allow you to install one piece of software on all the machines you own? They want one license per machine. Their strategy has never changed. What should change is everyone's understanding. Office apps have become commoditized as have computers. The parties that realize this quickest are going to win.

Under this new understanding an office suite shouldn't cost more than $100. Star Office is free and PC alternatives are popping up that are completely MS Office compatible for no more than $200 per SITE.

In a day where many PC's are going for roughly $799-999 including monitor, standard software (not professional apps) shouldn't be hundreds of dollars. Heck they shouldn't even be $100.

Apple and MS are going to both get rolled over by the same stone. We shouldn't complain on one hand that Apple should be able to charge $2500 for a mid-level performance tower and the not expect to really pay MS's price for Office.

Nick

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post #66 of 69
If you're hell bent on giving microsoft their "fair share" then you can always order a single site, multi user copy of office. That's what we did at work and, strangely enough, it ended up being even cheaper than retail. This was because if you buy the single site multiuser license you don't get any fancy packaging or documentation. This was for Office XP. We're using office in our business so we couldn't be caught using pirated software, but in the case of a home user I'd just recommend getting another serial number.


As for that "fair share" part... I think 95% of the entire computer OS market is a tad more than their "fair share". The DOJ seemed to share this opinion as well. If they want to illegaly hold a monopoly over the entire market then I don't feel the slightest shread of guilt from pirating their software for my own use.
post #67 of 69
My biggest complaint isn't the registration restrictions or even the price of Office. It's the price of individual office components.

Think about it: there are 4 main apps in Office v.X (Word, Excel, Powerpoint & Entourage). Yet, if I wanted to only purchase Word, I'm still going to pay about $399 (retail) compared to $499 (retail) for Office in its entirety. Shouldn't 1/4 of a software package at least only cost 1/3 to 1/2 the price?
post #68 of 69
[quote]Originally posted by Kesh:
<strong>Think about it: there are 4 main apps in Office v.X (Word, Excel, Powerpoint & Entourage). Yet, if I wanted to only purchase Word, I'm still going to pay about $399 (retail) compared to $499 (retail) for Office in its entirety. Shouldn't 1/4 of a software package at least only cost 1/3 to 1/2 the price?</strong><hr></blockquote>

That's just more smart marketing. For only $100 more, you get three additional apps. Plus Microsoft gets to put four times more bloatware on your hard drive. I suspect that the vast majority of customers buy the entire Office suite, even though they have absolutely no need for PowerPoint, Excel or even Entourage.

Case in point: I bought the entire Office suite, even though I use Word 95% of the time, barely touch Excel more than once a month, have never started up PowerPoint and didn't even bother to install Entourage. Of course, I took advantage of the more affordable $200 educational price.

Escher

[ 12-10-2001: Message edited by: Escher ]</p>
"The only laptop computer that's useful is the one you have with you."
Until we get a 3 lbs sub-PowerBook, the 12-inch PowerBook will do.
Reply
"The only laptop computer that's useful is the one you have with you."
Until we get a 3 lbs sub-PowerBook, the 12-inch PowerBook will do.
Reply
post #69 of 69
I agree with many that have posted here (both sides of the issue). However, I do find it interesting that no one has brought up one particular issue: LAN/Internet bandwidth use.

I personally am further annoyed that software companies feel that can chew up my bandwidth without my consent. Further, that they don't provide me a way of limiting or turning it off. While a company has a right to protect its revenue stream, it doesn't have a right to my resources (except for the money I pay them for the license of course).

As we move into the future, and our homes become wired personal LANs permanently connected to the Internet (unless you don't pay your bill ), with who knows what running on them, and more companies adopt tactics like Microsoft's, how are you going to feel if all that "license sniffing" bandwidth traffic interferes in your quiet enjoyment of a "pay-per-view" movie that you are streaming real-time?

I don't care if the traffic generated by this one app doesn't congest my home LAN, it's the thought of tens, or hundreds, of these types of things chewing up my precious bandwidth. I think people should voice their opinions of this type of practice. Disable it at home (if you can) and complain to any company that uses this type of tactic.

Remember, one or two banner ads or pop-ups didn't sound too bad just 4 years ago, but look at what a headache they can be now...
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